OT: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Keyboard Cowboy, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States
    By Dinesh D'Souza

    America is under attack as never before - not only from
    terrorists, but from people who provide a justification
    for terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists declare America the
    Great Satan. Europeans rail against American capitalism
    and American culture. South American activists denounce
    the United States for "neo-colonialism" and oppression.

    Anti-Americanism from abroad would not be such a problem
    if Americans were united in standing up for their own
    country. But in this country itself, there are those who
    blame America for most of the evils in the world. On the
    political left, many fault the United States for a history
    of slavery, and for continuing inequality and racism. Even
    on the right, traditionally the home of patriotism, we
    hear influential figures say that America has become so
    decadent that we are "slouching towards ****rrah."

    If these critics are right, then America should be
    destroyed. And who can dispute some of their particulars?
    This country did have a history of slavery and racism
    continues to exist. There is much in our culture that is
    vulgar and decadent. But the critics are wrong about
    America, because they are missing the big picture. In
    their indignation over the sins of America, they ignore
    what is unique and good about American civilization.

    As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American
    citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is
    special about America. Having grown up in a different
    society - in my case, Bombay, India - I am not only able
    to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the
    natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings
    that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the ten
    great things about America.

    America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary
    guy.: Rich people live well everywhere. But what
    distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively
    high standard of living for the "common man." We now live
    in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4
    for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where
    plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.

    Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the
    amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States.
    This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television
    broadcast a documentary, People Like Us, which was
    intended to show the miseries of the poor during an
    ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the
    documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan
    administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet
    leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people
    across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans
    have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars. They arrived at
    the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of
    mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to
    move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so
    eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to
    live in a country where the poor people are fat."

    America offers more opportunity and social mobility than
    any other country, including the countries of Europe:
    America is the only country that has created a population
    of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre
    Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in
    Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America
    could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer,
    become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the
    technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly
    tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a
    better ladder than America for people to ascend from
    modest circumstances to success.

    Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not
    true elsewhere: Historically most cultures have despised
    the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile
    and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some
    cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval
    Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things
    through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But
    the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They
    established a society in which the life of the
    businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would
    be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing
    vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a
    CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and
    supporting a family is more highly valued in the United
    States than in any other country. Indeed America is the
    only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir,"
    as if he were a knight.

    America has achieved greater social equality than any
    other society.: True, there are large inequalities of
    income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms,
    Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially
    more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected
    by economic disparities. Tocqueville noticed this
    egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if
    anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill
    Gates could not approach the typical American and
    say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss
    my feet." Most likely the person would tell Gates to go to
    hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more
    money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than
    anyone else.

    People live longer, fuller lives in America.: Although
    protesters rail against the American version of
    technological capitalism at trade meetings around the
    world, in reality the American system has given citizens
    many more years of life, and the means to live more
    intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in
    America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75
    years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly
    responsible for the change. This extension of the life-
    span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to
    devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things
    with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are
    old seem to have nothing to do: They just wait to die. In
    America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in
    their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including
    remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I
    find unnerving.

    In America the destiny of the young is not given to them
    but created by them.: Not long ago, I asked myself, "What
    would my life have been like if I had never come to the
    United States?" If I had remained in India, I would
    probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile
    radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have
    married a woman of my identical religious and
    socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have
    become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer
    programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my
    ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that
    could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be
    very different from what my father believed, or his father
    before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree
    have been given to me.

    In America, I have seen my life take a radically different
    course. In college I became interested in literature and
    politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I
    married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-
    Irish, German, and American Indian. In my twenties I found
    myself working as a policy analyst in the White House,
    even though I was not an American citizen. No other
    country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to
    work in its inner citadel of government.

    In most countries in the world, your fate and your
    identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them
    for yourself. America is a country where you get to write
    the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank
    sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of
    being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly
    powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of
    America. Young people especially find irresistible the
    prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.

    America has gone further than any other society in
    establishing equality of rights.: There is nothing
    distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery
    has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia,
    prejudice, and discrimination are worldwide phenomena.
    Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a
    principled campaign against slavery; no country expended
    more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the
    United States. While racism remains a problem in America,
    this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate
    discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies
    that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs,
    and government contracts to members of minority groups.
    Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that
    it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have
    permitted such policies in the first place. And surely
    African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off
    living in America than they would be if they were to live
    in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.

    America has found a solution to the problem of religious
    and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize
    much of the world.: Visitors to places like New York are
    amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs
    and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews
    and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in
    harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are
    spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so
    many places in the world?

    The American answer is twofold. First, separate the
    spheres of religion and government so that no religion is
    given official preference but all are free to practice
    their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to
    racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this
    way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is
    open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody
    who embraces the American way of life can "become
    American."

    Of course there are exceptions to these core principles,
    even in America. Racial preferences are one such
    exception, which explains why they are controversial. But
    in general America is the only country in the world that
    extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American
    could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian
    citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't
    see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that
    way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have
    come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least
    their children, have in a profound and full sense "become
    American."

    America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any
    great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are
    likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage.
    They will point to longstanding American support for a
    Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment
    of the Japanese during World War II, or America's
    reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid
    regime. However one feels about these particular cases,
    let us concede to the critics the point that America is
    not always in the right.

    What the critics leave out is the other side of the
    ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved
    the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet
    totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if
    America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
    Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both
    countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are
    doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider,
    too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former
    Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the
    most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no
    real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of
    the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if
    they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America
    intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt
    massive human rights abuses in another country, but it
    never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and
    Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover,
    when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops
    are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to
    minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the
    Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped
    rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
    civilians. What other country does these things?

    America, the freest nation on earth, is also the most
    virtuous nation on earth.: This point seems counter-
    intuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity,
    vice, and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic
    fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally
    superior to the United States because they seek to foster
    virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists
    argue, is a higher principle than liberty.

    Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society,
    freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by
    definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to
    act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst
    in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of
    Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives desire our
    highest admiration because they have opted for the good
    when the good is not the only available option. Even
    amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they
    have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has
    special luster because it is freely chosen.

    By contrast, the societies that many Islamic
    fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of
    virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free
    society like America, it is almost non-existent in an
    unfree society like Iran. The reason is that coerced
    virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is
    required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this,
    because she is being compelled Compulsion cannot produce
    virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of
    virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely
    more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more
    tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic
    and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate.

    "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once
    said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is
    that we should love our country not just because it is
    ours, but also because it is good. America is far from
    perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. In
    spite of its flaws, however, the American life as it is
    lived today is the best life that our world has to offer.
    Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice
    because, more than any other society, it makes possible
    the good life, and the life that is good.
     
    Keyboard Cowboy, Jul 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. Keyboard Cowboy

    billyw Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    yanks have one big problem...
    they are crap at being imperialists because they want the rest of the world
    to love them...
    think of them as the good guys.
    i'm sure there were quite a few zulu's that were less than happy with the
    british army's dependance on the maxim gun... but did we care :)

    "Keyboard Cowboy" <> wrote in
    message news:030601c340c4$6bac7da0$...
    > 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States
    > By Dinesh D'Souza
    >
    > America is under attack as never before - not only from
    > terrorists, but from people who provide a justification
    > for terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists declare America the
    > Great Satan. Europeans rail against American capitalism
    > and American culture. South American activists denounce
    > the United States for "neo-colonialism" and oppression.
    >
    > Anti-Americanism from abroad would not be such a problem
    > if Americans were united in standing up for their own
    > country. But in this country itself, there are those who
    > blame America for most of the evils in the world. On the
    > political left, many fault the United States for a history
    > of slavery, and for continuing inequality and racism. Even
    > on the right, traditionally the home of patriotism, we
    > hear influential figures say that America has become so
    > decadent that we are "slouching towards ****rrah."
    >
    > If these critics are right, then America should be
    > destroyed. And who can dispute some of their particulars?
    > This country did have a history of slavery and racism
    > continues to exist. There is much in our culture that is
    > vulgar and decadent. But the critics are wrong about
    > America, because they are missing the big picture. In
    > their indignation over the sins of America, they ignore
    > what is unique and good about American civilization.
    >
    > As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American
    > citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is
    > special about America. Having grown up in a different
    > society - in my case, Bombay, India - I am not only able
    > to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the
    > natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings
    > that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the ten
    > great things about America.
    >
    > America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary
    > guy.: Rich people live well everywhere. But what
    > distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively
    > high standard of living for the "common man." We now live
    > in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4
    > for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where
    > plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.
    >
    > Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the
    > amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States.
    > This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television
    > broadcast a documentary, People Like Us, which was
    > intended to show the miseries of the poor during an
    > ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the
    > documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan
    > administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet
    > leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people
    > across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans
    > have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars. They arrived at
    > the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of
    > mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to
    > move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so
    > eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to
    > live in a country where the poor people are fat."
    >
    > America offers more opportunity and social mobility than
    > any other country, including the countries of Europe:
    > America is the only country that has created a population
    > of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre
    > Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in
    > Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America
    > could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer,
    > become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the
    > technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly
    > tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a
    > better ladder than America for people to ascend from
    > modest circumstances to success.
    >
    > Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not
    > true elsewhere: Historically most cultures have despised
    > the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile
    > and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some
    > cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval
    > Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things
    > through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But
    > the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They
    > established a society in which the life of the
    > businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would
    > be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing
    > vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a
    > CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and
    > supporting a family is more highly valued in the United
    > States than in any other country. Indeed America is the
    > only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir,"
    > as if he were a knight.
    >
    > America has achieved greater social equality than any
    > other society.: True, there are large inequalities of
    > income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms,
    > Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially
    > more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected
    > by economic disparities. Tocqueville noticed this
    > egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if
    > anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill
    > Gates could not approach the typical American and
    > say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss
    > my feet." Most likely the person would tell Gates to go to
    > hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more
    > money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than
    > anyone else.
    >
    > People live longer, fuller lives in America.: Although
    > protesters rail against the American version of
    > technological capitalism at trade meetings around the
    > world, in reality the American system has given citizens
    > many more years of life, and the means to live more
    > intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in
    > America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75
    > years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly
    > responsible for the change. This extension of the life-
    > span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to
    > devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things
    > with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are
    > old seem to have nothing to do: They just wait to die. In
    > America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in
    > their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including
    > remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I
    > find unnerving.
    >
    > In America the destiny of the young is not given to them
    > but created by them.: Not long ago, I asked myself, "What
    > would my life have been like if I had never come to the
    > United States?" If I had remained in India, I would
    > probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile
    > radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have
    > married a woman of my identical religious and
    > socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have
    > become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer
    > programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my
    > ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that
    > could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be
    > very different from what my father believed, or his father
    > before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree
    > have been given to me.
    >
    > In America, I have seen my life take a radically different
    > course. In college I became interested in literature and
    > politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I
    > married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-
    > Irish, German, and American Indian. In my twenties I found
    > myself working as a policy analyst in the White House,
    > even though I was not an American citizen. No other
    > country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to
    > work in its inner citadel of government.
    >
    > In most countries in the world, your fate and your
    > identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them
    > for yourself. America is a country where you get to write
    > the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank
    > sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of
    > being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly
    > powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of
    > America. Young people especially find irresistible the
    > prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.
    >
    > America has gone further than any other society in
    > establishing equality of rights.: There is nothing
    > distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery
    > has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia,
    > prejudice, and discrimination are worldwide phenomena.
    > Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a
    > principled campaign against slavery; no country expended
    > more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the
    > United States. While racism remains a problem in America,
    > this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate
    > discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies
    > that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs,
    > and government contracts to members of minority groups.
    > Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that
    > it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have
    > permitted such policies in the first place. And surely
    > African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off
    > living in America than they would be if they were to live
    > in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.
    >
    > America has found a solution to the problem of religious
    > and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize
    > much of the world.: Visitors to places like New York are
    > amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs
    > and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews
    > and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in
    > harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are
    > spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so
    > many places in the world?
    >
    > The American answer is twofold. First, separate the
    > spheres of religion and government so that no religion is
    > given official preference but all are free to practice
    > their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to
    > racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this
    > way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is
    > open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody
    > who embraces the American way of life can "become
    > American."
    >
    > Of course there are exceptions to these core principles,
    > even in America. Racial preferences are one such
    > exception, which explains why they are controversial. But
    > in general America is the only country in the world that
    > extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American
    > could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian
    > citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't
    > see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that
    > way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have
    > come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least
    > their children, have in a profound and full sense "become
    > American."
    >
    > America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any
    > great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are
    > likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage.
    > They will point to longstanding American support for a
    > Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment
    > of the Japanese during World War II, or America's
    > reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid
    > regime. However one feels about these particular cases,
    > let us concede to the critics the point that America is
    > not always in the right.
    >
    > What the critics leave out is the other side of the
    > ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved
    > the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet
    > totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if
    > America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
    > Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both
    > countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are
    > doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider,
    > too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former
    > Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the
    > most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no
    > real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of
    > the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if
    > they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America
    > intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt
    > massive human rights abuses in another country, but it
    > never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and
    > Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover,
    > when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops
    > are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to
    > minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the
    > Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped
    > rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
    > civilians. What other country does these things?
    >
    > America, the freest nation on earth, is also the most
    > virtuous nation on earth.: This point seems counter-
    > intuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity,
    > vice, and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic
    > fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally
    > superior to the United States because they seek to foster
    > virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists
    > argue, is a higher principle than liberty.
    >
    > Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society,
    > freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by
    > definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to
    > act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst
    > in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of
    > Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives desire our
    > highest admiration because they have opted for the good
    > when the good is not the only available option. Even
    > amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they
    > have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has
    > special luster because it is freely chosen.
    >
    > By contrast, the societies that many Islamic
    > fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of
    > virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free
    > society like America, it is almost non-existent in an
    > unfree society like Iran. The reason is that coerced
    > virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is
    > required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this,
    > because she is being compelled Compulsion cannot produce
    > virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of
    > virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely
    > more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more
    > tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic
    > and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate.
    >
    > "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once
    > said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is
    > that we should love our country not just because it is
    > ours, but also because it is good. America is far from
    > perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. In
    > spite of its flaws, however, the American life as it is
    > lived today is the best life that our world has to offer.
    > Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice
    > because, more than any other society, it makes possible
    > the good life, and the life that is good.
    >
     
    billyw, Jul 2, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Keyboard Cowboy

    Andy Foster Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    Wasn't that the speech at the end of Independence Day (the film) ?

    "Keyboard Cowboy" <> wrote in
    message news:030601c340c4$6bac7da0$...
    > 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States
    > By Dinesh D'Souza
    >
    > America is under attack as never before - not only from
    > terrorists, but from people who provide a justification
    > for terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists declare America the
    > Great Satan. Europeans rail against American capitalism
    > and American culture. South American activists denounce
    > the United States for "neo-colonialism" and oppression.
    >
    > Anti-Americanism from abroad would not be such a problem
    > if Americans were united in standing up for their own
    > country. But in this country itself, there are those who
    > blame America for most of the evils in the world. On the
    > political left, many fault the United States for a history
    > of slavery, and for continuing inequality and racism. Even
    > on the right, traditionally the home of patriotism, we
    > hear influential figures say that America has become so
    > decadent that we are "slouching towards ****rrah."
    >
    > If these critics are right, then America should be
    > destroyed. And who can dispute some of their particulars?
    > This country did have a history of slavery and racism
    > continues to exist. There is much in our culture that is
    > vulgar and decadent. But the critics are wrong about
    > America, because they are missing the big picture. In
    > their indignation over the sins of America, they ignore
    > what is unique and good about American civilization.
    >
    > As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American
    > citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is
    > special about America. Having grown up in a different
    > society - in my case, Bombay, India - I am not only able
    > to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the
    > natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings
    > that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the ten
    > great things about America.
    >
    > America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary
    > guy.: Rich people live well everywhere. But what
    > distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively
    > high standard of living for the "common man." We now live
    > in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4
    > for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where
    > plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.
    >
    > Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the
    > amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States.
    > This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television
    > broadcast a documentary, People Like Us, which was
    > intended to show the miseries of the poor during an
    > ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the
    > documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan
    > administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet
    > leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people
    > across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans
    > have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars. They arrived at
    > the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of
    > mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to
    > move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so
    > eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to
    > live in a country where the poor people are fat."
    >
    > America offers more opportunity and social mobility than
    > any other country, including the countries of Europe:
    > America is the only country that has created a population
    > of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre
    > Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in
    > Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America
    > could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer,
    > become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the
    > technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly
    > tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a
    > better ladder than America for people to ascend from
    > modest circumstances to success.
    >
    > Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not
    > true elsewhere: Historically most cultures have despised
    > the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile
    > and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some
    > cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval
    > Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things
    > through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But
    > the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They
    > established a society in which the life of the
    > businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would
    > be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing
    > vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a
    > CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and
    > supporting a family is more highly valued in the United
    > States than in any other country. Indeed America is the
    > only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir,"
    > as if he were a knight.
    >
    > America has achieved greater social equality than any
    > other society.: True, there are large inequalities of
    > income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms,
    > Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially
    > more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected
    > by economic disparities. Tocqueville noticed this
    > egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if
    > anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill
    > Gates could not approach the typical American and
    > say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss
    > my feet." Most likely the person would tell Gates to go to
    > hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more
    > money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than
    > anyone else.
    >
    > People live longer, fuller lives in America.: Although
    > protesters rail against the American version of
    > technological capitalism at trade meetings around the
    > world, in reality the American system has given citizens
    > many more years of life, and the means to live more
    > intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in
    > America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75
    > years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly
    > responsible for the change. This extension of the life-
    > span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to
    > devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things
    > with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are
    > old seem to have nothing to do: They just wait to die. In
    > America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in
    > their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including
    > remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I
    > find unnerving.
    >
    > In America the destiny of the young is not given to them
    > but created by them.: Not long ago, I asked myself, "What
    > would my life have been like if I had never come to the
    > United States?" If I had remained in India, I would
    > probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile
    > radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have
    > married a woman of my identical religious and
    > socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have
    > become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer
    > programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my
    > ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that
    > could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be
    > very different from what my father believed, or his father
    > before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree
    > have been given to me.
    >
    > In America, I have seen my life take a radically different
    > course. In college I became interested in literature and
    > politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I
    > married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-
    > Irish, German, and American Indian. In my twenties I found
    > myself working as a policy analyst in the White House,
    > even though I was not an American citizen. No other
    > country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to
    > work in its inner citadel of government.
    >
    > In most countries in the world, your fate and your
    > identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them
    > for yourself. America is a country where you get to write
    > the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank
    > sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of
    > being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly
    > powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of
    > America. Young people especially find irresistible the
    > prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.
    >
    > America has gone further than any other society in
    > establishing equality of rights.: There is nothing
    > distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery
    > has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia,
    > prejudice, and discrimination are worldwide phenomena.
    > Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a
    > principled campaign against slavery; no country expended
    > more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the
    > United States. While racism remains a problem in America,
    > this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate
    > discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies
    > that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs,
    > and government contracts to members of minority groups.
    > Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that
    > it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have
    > permitted such policies in the first place. And surely
    > African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off
    > living in America than they would be if they were to live
    > in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.
    >
    > America has found a solution to the problem of religious
    > and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize
    > much of the world.: Visitors to places like New York are
    > amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs
    > and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews
    > and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in
    > harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are
    > spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so
    > many places in the world?
    >
    > The American answer is twofold. First, separate the
    > spheres of religion and government so that no religion is
    > given official preference but all are free to practice
    > their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to
    > racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this
    > way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is
    > open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody
    > who embraces the American way of life can "become
    > American."
    >
    > Of course there are exceptions to these core principles,
    > even in America. Racial preferences are one such
    > exception, which explains why they are controversial. But
    > in general America is the only country in the world that
    > extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American
    > could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian
    > citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't
    > see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that
    > way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have
    > come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least
    > their children, have in a profound and full sense "become
    > American."
    >
    > America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any
    > great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are
    > likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage.
    > They will point to longstanding American support for a
    > Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment
    > of the Japanese during World War II, or America's
    > reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid
    > regime. However one feels about these particular cases,
    > let us concede to the critics the point that America is
    > not always in the right.
    >
    > What the critics leave out is the other side of the
    > ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved
    > the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet
    > totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if
    > America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
    > Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both
    > countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are
    > doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider,
    > too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former
    > Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the
    > most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no
    > real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of
    > the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if
    > they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America
    > intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt
    > massive human rights abuses in another country, but it
    > never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and
    > Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover,
    > when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops
    > are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to
    > minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the
    > Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped
    > rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
    > civilians. What other country does these things?
    >
    > America, the freest nation on earth, is also the most
    > virtuous nation on earth.: This point seems counter-
    > intuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity,
    > vice, and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic
    > fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally
    > superior to the United States because they seek to foster
    > virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists
    > argue, is a higher principle than liberty.
    >
    > Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society,
    > freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by
    > definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to
    > act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst
    > in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of
    > Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives desire our
    > highest admiration because they have opted for the good
    > when the good is not the only available option. Even
    > amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they
    > have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has
    > special luster because it is freely chosen.
    >
    > By contrast, the societies that many Islamic
    > fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of
    > virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free
    > society like America, it is almost non-existent in an
    > unfree society like Iran. The reason is that coerced
    > virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is
    > required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this,
    > because she is being compelled Compulsion cannot produce
    > virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of
    > virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely
    > more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more
    > tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic
    > and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate.
    >
    > "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once
    > said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is
    > that we should love our country not just because it is
    > ours, but also because it is good. America is far from
    > perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. In
    > spite of its flaws, however, the American life as it is
    > lived today is the best life that our world has to offer.
    > Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice
    > because, more than any other society, it makes possible
    > the good life, and the life that is good.
    >
     
    Andy Foster, Jul 3, 2003
    #3
  4. Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    "Politician Spock" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > "billyw" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > yanks have one big problem...
    > > they are crap at being imperialists because they want the rest of the

    > world
    > > to love them...

    >
    > What have you been smoking?!?! Yanks want the rest of the world to leave

    us
    > alone. The rest of the world bitches at us when we don't get involved. And
    > they bitch at us when we do get involved. Either way we get bitched at. As
    > such, the only real motivation for our decisions is our own needs.... and
    > thus we get bitched at for being selfish.


    Did you used to be a marriage counselor?


    --
    Fris "That pretty much sums it up" bee® MCNGP #13

    http://www.mcngp.tk
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=, Jul 3, 2003
    #4
  5. Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    I find it amusing that all these countries are bitching about us
    'interfering', and yet none of them have announced that they are going to
    stop taking financial aid. If we were really imperialists then we would
    cutoff countries like france, that we have been finacially propping up, wait
    for the governments to colaps, then move in. What they really want is for
    us to just keep forking over money, but leave them alone. I think most
    americans would be shacked if they looked at how much money we give to other
    governments. I say we cut them off, let chaos insue, and wait for them to
    beg to be a part of the US. We would have tons of new teritories, and
    wouldn't have to listen to them call us names as they take our money, or try
    to kill us as they take our money as in the middle east. Lets be REALLY
    selfish and start taking care of our own problems, and anyone who attacks us
    will suffer an immediate nuclear strike, no more handwringing.

    "Politician Spock" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > "billyw" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > yanks have one big problem...
    > > they are crap at being imperialists because they want the rest of the

    > world
    > > to love them...

    >
    > What have you been smoking?!?! Yanks want the rest of the world to leave

    us
    > alone. The rest of the world bitches at us when we don't get involved. And
    > they bitch at us when we do get involved. Either way we get bitched at. As
    > such, the only real motivation for our decisions is our own needs.... and
    > thus we get bitched at for being selfish.
    >
    > --
    > Politician Spock
    > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
    > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    >
    > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

    rights.
    > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
    > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
    > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
    > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
    >
    >
    > > think of them as the good guys.
    > > i'm sure there were quite a few zulu's that were less than happy with

    the
    > > british army's dependance on the maxim gun... but did we care :)
    > >
    > > "Keyboard Cowboy" <> wrote in
    > > message news:030601c340c4$6bac7da0$...
    > > > 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States
    > > > By Dinesh D'Souza
    > > >
    > > > America is under attack as never before - not only from
    > > > terrorists, but from people who provide a justification
    > > > for terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists declare America the
    > > > Great Satan. Europeans rail against American capitalism
    > > > and American culture. South American activists denounce
    > > > the United States for "neo-colonialism" and oppression.
    > > >
    > > > Anti-Americanism from abroad would not be such a problem
    > > > if Americans were united in standing up for their own
    > > > country. But in this country itself, there are those who
    > > > blame America for most of the evils in the world. On the
    > > > political left, many fault the United States for a history
    > > > of slavery, and for continuing inequality and racism. Even
    > > > on the right, traditionally the home of patriotism, we
    > > > hear influential figures say that America has become so
    > > > decadent that we are "slouching towards ****rrah."
    > > >
    > > > If these critics are right, then America should be
    > > > destroyed. And who can dispute some of their particulars?
    > > > This country did have a history of slavery and racism
    > > > continues to exist. There is much in our culture that is
    > > > vulgar and decadent. But the critics are wrong about
    > > > America, because they are missing the big picture. In
    > > > their indignation over the sins of America, they ignore
    > > > what is unique and good about American civilization.
    > > >
    > > > As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American
    > > > citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is
    > > > special about America. Having grown up in a different
    > > > society - in my case, Bombay, India - I am not only able
    > > > to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the
    > > > natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings
    > > > that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the ten
    > > > great things about America.
    > > >
    > > > America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary
    > > > guy.: Rich people live well everywhere. But what
    > > > distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively
    > > > high standard of living for the "common man." We now live
    > > > in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4
    > > > for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where
    > > > plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.
    > > >
    > > > Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the
    > > > amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States.
    > > > This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television
    > > > broadcast a documentary, People Like Us, which was
    > > > intended to show the miseries of the poor during an
    > > > ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the
    > > > documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan
    > > > administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet
    > > > leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people
    > > > across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans
    > > > have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars. They arrived at
    > > > the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of
    > > > mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to
    > > > move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so
    > > > eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to
    > > > live in a country where the poor people are fat."
    > > >
    > > > America offers more opportunity and social mobility than
    > > > any other country, including the countries of Europe:
    > > > America is the only country that has created a population
    > > > of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre
    > > > Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in
    > > > Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America
    > > > could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer,
    > > > become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the
    > > > technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly
    > > > tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a
    > > > better ladder than America for people to ascend from
    > > > modest circumstances to success.
    > > >
    > > > Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not
    > > > true elsewhere: Historically most cultures have despised
    > > > the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile
    > > > and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some
    > > > cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval
    > > > Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things
    > > > through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But
    > > > the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They
    > > > established a society in which the life of the
    > > > businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would
    > > > be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing
    > > > vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a
    > > > CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and
    > > > supporting a family is more highly valued in the United
    > > > States than in any other country. Indeed America is the
    > > > only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir,"
    > > > as if he were a knight.
    > > >
    > > > America has achieved greater social equality than any
    > > > other society.: True, there are large inequalities of
    > > > income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms,
    > > > Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially
    > > > more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected
    > > > by economic disparities. Tocqueville noticed this
    > > > egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if
    > > > anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill
    > > > Gates could not approach the typical American and
    > > > say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss
    > > > my feet." Most likely the person would tell Gates to go to
    > > > hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more
    > > > money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than
    > > > anyone else.
    > > >
    > > > People live longer, fuller lives in America.: Although
    > > > protesters rail against the American version of
    > > > technological capitalism at trade meetings around the
    > > > world, in reality the American system has given citizens
    > > > many more years of life, and the means to live more
    > > > intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in
    > > > America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75
    > > > years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly
    > > > responsible for the change. This extension of the life-
    > > > span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to
    > > > devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things
    > > > with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are
    > > > old seem to have nothing to do: They just wait to die. In
    > > > America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in
    > > > their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including
    > > > remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I
    > > > find unnerving.
    > > >
    > > > In America the destiny of the young is not given to them
    > > > but created by them.: Not long ago, I asked myself, "What
    > > > would my life have been like if I had never come to the
    > > > United States?" If I had remained in India, I would
    > > > probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile
    > > > radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have
    > > > married a woman of my identical religious and
    > > > socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have
    > > > become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer
    > > > programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my
    > > > ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that
    > > > could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be
    > > > very different from what my father believed, or his father
    > > > before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree
    > > > have been given to me.
    > > >
    > > > In America, I have seen my life take a radically different
    > > > course. In college I became interested in literature and
    > > > politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I
    > > > married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-
    > > > Irish, German, and American Indian. In my twenties I found
    > > > myself working as a policy analyst in the White House,
    > > > even though I was not an American citizen. No other
    > > > country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to
    > > > work in its inner citadel of government.
    > > >
    > > > In most countries in the world, your fate and your
    > > > identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them
    > > > for yourself. America is a country where you get to write
    > > > the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank
    > > > sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of
    > > > being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly
    > > > powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of
    > > > America. Young people especially find irresistible the
    > > > prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.
    > > >
    > > > America has gone further than any other society in
    > > > establishing equality of rights.: There is nothing
    > > > distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery
    > > > has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia,
    > > > prejudice, and discrimination are worldwide phenomena.
    > > > Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a
    > > > principled campaign against slavery; no country expended
    > > > more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the
    > > > United States. While racism remains a problem in America,
    > > > this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate
    > > > discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies
    > > > that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs,
    > > > and government contracts to members of minority groups.
    > > > Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that
    > > > it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have
    > > > permitted such policies in the first place. And surely
    > > > African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off
    > > > living in America than they would be if they were to live
    > > > in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.
    > > >
    > > > America has found a solution to the problem of religious
    > > > and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize
    > > > much of the world.: Visitors to places like New York are
    > > > amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs
    > > > and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews
    > > > and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in
    > > > harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are
    > > > spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so
    > > > many places in the world?
    > > >
    > > > The American answer is twofold. First, separate the
    > > > spheres of religion and government so that no religion is
    > > > given official preference but all are free to practice
    > > > their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to
    > > > racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this
    > > > way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is
    > > > open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody
    > > > who embraces the American way of life can "become
    > > > American."
    > > >
    > > > Of course there are exceptions to these core principles,
    > > > even in America. Racial preferences are one such
    > > > exception, which explains why they are controversial. But
    > > > in general America is the only country in the world that
    > > > extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American
    > > > could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian
    > > > citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't
    > > > see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that
    > > > way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have
    > > > come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least
    > > > their children, have in a profound and full sense "become
    > > > American."
    > > >
    > > > America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any
    > > > great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are
    > > > likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage.
    > > > They will point to longstanding American support for a
    > > > Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment
    > > > of the Japanese during World War II, or America's
    > > > reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid
    > > > regime. However one feels about these particular cases,
    > > > let us concede to the critics the point that America is
    > > > not always in the right.
    > > >
    > > > What the critics leave out is the other side of the
    > > > ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved
    > > > the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet
    > > > totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if
    > > > America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
    > > > Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both
    > > > countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are
    > > > doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider,
    > > > too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former
    > > > Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the
    > > > most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no
    > > > real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of
    > > > the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if
    > > > they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America
    > > > intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt
    > > > massive human rights abuses in another country, but it
    > > > never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and
    > > > Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover,
    > > > when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops
    > > > are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to
    > > > minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the
    > > > Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped
    > > > rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
    > > > civilians. What other country does these things?
    > > >
    > > > America, the freest nation on earth, is also the most
    > > > virtuous nation on earth.: This point seems counter-
    > > > intuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity,
    > > > vice, and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic
    > > > fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally
    > > > superior to the United States because they seek to foster
    > > > virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists
    > > > argue, is a higher principle than liberty.
    > > >
    > > > Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society,
    > > > freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by
    > > > definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to
    > > > act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst
    > > > in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of
    > > > Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives desire our
    > > > highest admiration because they have opted for the good
    > > > when the good is not the only available option. Even
    > > > amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they
    > > > have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has
    > > > special luster because it is freely chosen.
    > > >
    > > > By contrast, the societies that many Islamic
    > > > fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of
    > > > virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free
    > > > society like America, it is almost non-existent in an
    > > > unfree society like Iran. The reason is that coerced
    > > > virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is
    > > > required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this,
    > > > because she is being compelled Compulsion cannot produce
    > > > virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of
    > > > virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely
    > > > more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more
    > > > tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic
    > > > and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate.
    > > >
    > > > "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once
    > > > said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is
    > > > that we should love our country not just because it is
    > > > ours, but also because it is good. America is far from
    > > > perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. In
    > > > spite of its flaws, however, the American life as it is
    > > > lived today is the best life that our world has to offer.
    > > > Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice
    > > > because, more than any other society, it makes possible
    > > > the good life, and the life that is good.
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    David Maggard, Jul 8, 2003
    #5
  6. Keyboard Cowboy

    billyw Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    hey u prick.. not everyone hats the US..

    "David Maggard" <> wrote in message
    news:%23Xrz7$...
    > I find it amusing that all these countries are bitching about us
    > 'interfering', and yet none of them have announced that they are going to
    > stop taking financial aid. If we were really imperialists then we would
    > cutoff countries like france, that we have been finacially propping up,

    wait
    > for the governments to colaps, then move in. What they really want is for
    > us to just keep forking over money, but leave them alone. I think most
    > americans would be shacked if they looked at how much money we give to

    other
    > governments. I say we cut them off, let chaos insue, and wait for them to
    > beg to be a part of the US. We would have tons of new teritories, and
    > wouldn't have to listen to them call us names as they take our money, or

    try
    > to kill us as they take our money as in the middle east. Lets be REALLY
    > selfish and start taking care of our own problems, and anyone who attacks

    us
    > will suffer an immediate nuclear strike, no more handwringing.
    >
    > "Politician Spock" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    > > "billyw" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > yanks have one big problem...
    > > > they are crap at being imperialists because they want the rest of the

    > > world
    > > > to love them...

    > >
    > > What have you been smoking?!?! Yanks want the rest of the world to leave

    > us
    > > alone. The rest of the world bitches at us when we don't get involved.

    And
    > > they bitch at us when we do get involved. Either way we get bitched at.

    As
    > > such, the only real motivation for our decisions is our own needs....

    and
    > > thus we get bitched at for being selfish.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Politician Spock
    > > MCSA, CCEA, MCNGP #15
    > > The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
    > >
    > > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

    > rights.
    > > You assume all risk for your use. Not responsible for your inability to
    > > understand logic, ambiguous references, sarcasm, the imaginary gnomes
    > > living in my garden, or William Shatner's acting.
    > > © 2003 Star Trek Federation. All rights reserved.
    > >
    > >
    > > > think of them as the good guys.
    > > > i'm sure there were quite a few zulu's that were less than happy with

    > the
    > > > british army's dependance on the maxim gun... but did we care :)
    > > >
    > > > "Keyboard Cowboy" <> wrote

    in
    > > > message news:030601c340c4$6bac7da0$...
    > > > > 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States
    > > > > By Dinesh D'Souza
    > > > >
    > > > > America is under attack as never before - not only from
    > > > > terrorists, but from people who provide a justification
    > > > > for terrorism. Islamic fundamentalists declare America the
    > > > > Great Satan. Europeans rail against American capitalism
    > > > > and American culture. South American activists denounce
    > > > > the United States for "neo-colonialism" and oppression.
    > > > >
    > > > > Anti-Americanism from abroad would not be such a problem
    > > > > if Americans were united in standing up for their own
    > > > > country. But in this country itself, there are those who
    > > > > blame America for most of the evils in the world. On the
    > > > > political left, many fault the United States for a history
    > > > > of slavery, and for continuing inequality and racism. Even
    > > > > on the right, traditionally the home of patriotism, we
    > > > > hear influential figures say that America has become so
    > > > > decadent that we are "slouching towards ****rrah."
    > > > >
    > > > > If these critics are right, then America should be
    > > > > destroyed. And who can dispute some of their particulars?
    > > > > This country did have a history of slavery and racism
    > > > > continues to exist. There is much in our culture that is
    > > > > vulgar and decadent. But the critics are wrong about
    > > > > America, because they are missing the big picture. In
    > > > > their indignation over the sins of America, they ignore
    > > > > what is unique and good about American civilization.
    > > > >
    > > > > As an immigrant who has chosen to become an American
    > > > > citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is
    > > > > special about America. Having grown up in a different
    > > > > society - in my case, Bombay, India - I am not only able
    > > > > to identify aspects of America that are invisible to the
    > > > > natives, but I am acutely conscious of the daily blessings
    > > > > that I enjoy in America. Here, then, is my list of the ten
    > > > > great things about America.
    > > > >
    > > > > America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary
    > > > > guy.: Rich people live well everywhere. But what
    > > > > distinguishes America is that it provides an impressively
    > > > > high standard of living for the "common man." We now live
    > > > > in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4
    > > > > for a nonfat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where
    > > > > plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe.
    > > > >
    > > > > Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the
    > > > > amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States.
    > > > > This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television
    > > > > broadcast a documentary, People Like Us, which was
    > > > > intended to show the miseries of the poor during an
    > > > > ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the
    > > > > documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan
    > > > > administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet
    > > > > leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people
    > > > > across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans
    > > > > have TV sets, microwave ovens, and cars. They arrived at
    > > > > the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of
    > > > > mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to
    > > > > move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so
    > > > > eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to
    > > > > live in a country where the poor people are fat."
    > > > >
    > > > > America offers more opportunity and social mobility than
    > > > > any other country, including the countries of Europe:
    > > > > America is the only country that has created a population
    > > > > of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre
    > > > > Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in
    > > > > Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America
    > > > > could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer,
    > > > > become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the
    > > > > technology industry, and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly
    > > > > tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a
    > > > > better ladder than America for people to ascend from
    > > > > modest circumstances to success.
    > > > >
    > > > > Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not
    > > > > true elsewhere: Historically most cultures have despised
    > > > > the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile
    > > > > and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some
    > > > > cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval
    > > > > Islam, even held that it is better to acquire things
    > > > > through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But
    > > > > the American founders altered this moral hierarchy. They
    > > > > established a society in which the life of the
    > > > > businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would
    > > > > be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing
    > > > > vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a
    > > > > CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and
    > > > > supporting a family is more highly valued in the United
    > > > > States than in any other country. Indeed America is the
    > > > > only country in the world where we call the waiter "sir,"
    > > > > as if he were a knight.
    > > > >
    > > > > America has achieved greater social equality than any
    > > > > other society.: True, there are large inequalities of
    > > > > income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms,
    > > > > Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially
    > > > > more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected
    > > > > by economic disparities. Tocqueville noticed this
    > > > > egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if
    > > > > anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill
    > > > > Gates could not approach the typical American and
    > > > > say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss
    > > > > my feet." Most likely the person would tell Gates to go to
    > > > > hell! The American view is that the rich guy may have more
    > > > > money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than
    > > > > anyone else.
    > > > >
    > > > > People live longer, fuller lives in America.: Although
    > > > > protesters rail against the American version of
    > > > > technological capitalism at trade meetings around the
    > > > > world, in reality the American system has given citizens
    > > > > many more years of life, and the means to live more
    > > > > intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in
    > > > > America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75
    > > > > years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly
    > > > > responsible for the change. This extension of the life-
    > > > > span means more years to enjoy life, more free time to
    > > > > devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things
    > > > > with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are
    > > > > old seem to have nothing to do: They just wait to die. In
    > > > > America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in
    > > > > their seventies pursue the pleasures of life, including
    > > > > remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I
    > > > > find unnerving.
    > > > >
    > > > > In America the destiny of the young is not given to them
    > > > > but created by them.: Not long ago, I asked myself, "What
    > > > > would my life have been like if I had never come to the
    > > > > United States?" If I had remained in India, I would
    > > > > probably have lived my whole life within a five-mile
    > > > > radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have
    > > > > married a woman of my identical religious and
    > > > > socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have
    > > > > become a medical doctor, or an engineer, or a computer
    > > > > programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my
    > > > > ethic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that
    > > > > could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be
    > > > > very different from what my father believed, or his father
    > > > > before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree
    > > > > have been given to me.
    > > > >
    > > > > In America, I have seen my life take a radically different
    > > > > course. In college I became interested in literature and
    > > > > politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I
    > > > > married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-
    > > > > Irish, German, and American Indian. In my twenties I found
    > > > > myself working as a policy analyst in the White House,
    > > > > even though I was not an American citizen. No other
    > > > > country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to
    > > > > work in its inner citadel of government.
    > > > >
    > > > > In most countries in the world, your fate and your
    > > > > identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them
    > > > > for yourself. America is a country where you get to write
    > > > > the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank
    > > > > sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of
    > > > > being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly
    > > > > powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of
    > > > > America. Young people especially find irresistible the
    > > > > prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives.
    > > > >
    > > > > America has gone further than any other society in
    > > > > establishing equality of rights.: There is nothing
    > > > > distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery
    > > > > has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia,
    > > > > prejudice, and discrimination are worldwide phenomena.
    > > > > Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a
    > > > > principled campaign against slavery; no country expended
    > > > > more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the
    > > > > United States. While racism remains a problem in America,
    > > > > this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate
    > > > > discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies
    > > > > that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs,
    > > > > and government contracts to members of minority groups.
    > > > > Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that
    > > > > it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have
    > > > > permitted such policies in the first place. And surely
    > > > > African Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off
    > > > > living in America than they would be if they were to live
    > > > > in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia.
    > > > >
    > > > > America has found a solution to the problem of religious
    > > > > and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize
    > > > > much of the world.: Visitors to places like New York are
    > > > > amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs
    > > > > and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews
    > > > > and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in
    > > > > harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are
    > > > > spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so
    > > > > many places in the world?
    > > > >
    > > > > The American answer is twofold. First, separate the
    > > > > spheres of religion and government so that no religion is
    > > > > given official preference but all are free to practice
    > > > > their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to
    > > > > racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this
    > > > > way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is
    > > > > open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody
    > > > > who embraces the American way of life can "become
    > > > > American."
    > > > >
    > > > > Of course there are exceptions to these core principles,
    > > > > even in America. Racial preferences are one such
    > > > > exception, which explains why they are controversial. But
    > > > > in general America is the only country in the world that
    > > > > extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American
    > > > > could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian
    > > > > citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't
    > > > > see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that
    > > > > way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have
    > > > > come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least
    > > > > their children, have in a profound and full sense "become
    > > > > American."
    > > > >
    > > > > America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any
    > > > > great power in world history.: Critics of the U.S. are
    > > > > likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage.
    > > > > They will point to longstanding American support for a
    > > > > Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment
    > > > > of the Japanese during World War II, or America's
    > > > > reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid
    > > > > regime. However one feels about these particular cases,
    > > > > let us concede to the critics the point that America is
    > > > > not always in the right.
    > > > >
    > > > > What the critics leave out is the other side of the
    > > > > ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved
    > > > > the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet
    > > > > totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if
    > > > > America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
    > > > > Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both
    > > > > countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are
    > > > > doing the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq. Consider,
    > > > > too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former
    > > > > Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the
    > > > > most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no
    > > > > real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of
    > > > > the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if
    > > > > they had won the Cold War.) On occasion the America
    > > > > intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt
    > > > > massive human rights abuses in another country, but it
    > > > > never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti, and
    > > > > Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover,
    > > > > when America does get into a war, as in Iraq, its troops
    > > > > are supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to
    > > > > minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the
    > > > > Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, U.S. planes dropped
    > > > > rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
    > > > > civilians. What other country does these things?
    > > > >
    > > > > America, the freest nation on earth, is also the most
    > > > > virtuous nation on earth.: This point seems counter-
    > > > > intuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity,
    > > > > vice, and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic
    > > > > fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally
    > > > > superior to the United States because they seek to foster
    > > > > virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists
    > > > > argue, is a higher principle than liberty.
    > > > >
    > > > > Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society,
    > > > > freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by
    > > > > definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to
    > > > > act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst
    > > > > in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of
    > > > > Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives desire our
    > > > > highest admiration because they have opted for the good
    > > > > when the good is not the only available option. Even
    > > > > amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they
    > > > > have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has
    > > > > special luster because it is freely chosen.
    > > > >
    > > > > By contrast, the societies that many Islamic
    > > > > fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of
    > > > > virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free
    > > > > society like America, it is almost non-existent in an
    > > > > unfree society like Iran. The reason is that coerced
    > > > > virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is
    > > > > required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this,
    > > > > because she is being compelled Compulsion cannot produce
    > > > > virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of
    > > > > virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely
    > > > > more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more
    > > > > tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic
    > > > > and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate.
    > > > >
    > > > > "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once
    > > > > said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is
    > > > > that we should love our country not just because it is
    > > > > ours, but also because it is good. America is far from
    > > > > perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. In
    > > > > spite of its flaws, however, the American life as it is
    > > > > lived today is the best life that our world has to offer.
    > > > > Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice
    > > > > because, more than any other society, it makes possible
    > > > > the good life, and the life that is good.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >

    >
    >
     
    billyw, Jul 8, 2003
    #6
  7. Keyboard Cowboy

    KLXrider Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:33:17 -0600, "David Maggard"
    <> wrote:

    >I say we cut them off, let chaos insue, and wait for them to
    >beg to be a part of the US. We would have tons of new teritories, and
    >wouldn't have to listen to them call us names as they take our money, or try
    >to kill us as they take our money as in the middle east


    Your an idiot....haven't you heard of Puerto Rico. They are a US
    territory and hate the US.
     
    KLXrider, Jul 8, 2003
    #7
  8. Keyboard Cowboy

    Consultant Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    but they are home to many beautiful puerto rican women, growllllll


    "KLXrider" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:33:17 -0600, "David Maggard"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >I say we cut them off, let chaos insue, and wait for them to
    > >beg to be a part of the US. We would have tons of new teritories, and
    > >wouldn't have to listen to them call us names as they take our money, or

    try
    > >to kill us as they take our money as in the middle east

    >
    > Your an idiot....haven't you heard of Puerto Rico. They are a US
    > territory and hate the US.
     
    Consultant, Jul 8, 2003
    #8
  9. Keyboard Cowboy

    KLXrider Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:23:01 -0700, "Consultant"
    <> wrote:

    >but they are home to many beautiful puerto rican women, growllllll


    True
     
    KLXrider, Jul 8, 2003
    #9
  10. Keyboard Cowboy

    Consultant Guest

    Re: 10 Great Things...what to love about the United States

    see, consultant finds the happy things in everything!

    "KLXrider" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:23:01 -0700, "Consultant"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >but they are home to many beautiful puerto rican women, growllllll

    >
    > True
     
    Consultant, Jul 8, 2003
    #10
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