Orifice Genuine Disadvantage

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. It's bad enough having Dimdows Genuine Disadvantage added to XP and built
    into Vista, now Microsoft is doing the same thing for Office as well
    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/business_applications/microsoft_doesnt_trust_you.html>.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 9, 2008
    #1
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  2. In article <1207776659.428462@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> It's bad enough having Dimdows Genuine Disadvantage added to XP and built
    >> into Vista, now Microsoft is doing the same thing for Office as well
    >>

    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/business_applications/microsoft_doesnt_trust_you.html>.
    > >

    > Oh dear, does that mean that people who didn't pay for it in the first
    > place, won't be able to get free support, updates, and upgrades any more?


    Even ones who _did_ pay for it--if past experience is anything to go by.
    Read the article.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #2
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  3. In article <1207808924.400421@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:

    > I used Linux, and the insistence of strict syntax, case
    > sensitive and the need for command line BS annoyed the crap out of me.


    Still, it's better than hazard-fraught Dimdows Registry edits, isn't it.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #3
  4. In article <>, Keith did write:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:35:56 +1200, frederick <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Allistar wrote:
    >> >(and childish manipulation of words like "Dimdows")
    >> >I don't get it. I used Linux, and the insistence of strict syntax, case
    >> >sensitive and the need for command line BS annoyed the crap out of me.
    >> >I think (quietly) that it probably annoys the crap out of linux fanboys
    >> >too, and they just can't help themselves. "Wow, I can type any old
    >> >crap, and my newsreader client works!"

    >>
    >> I use the console frequently. I press F12, a console pops down from
    >> the top of the screen, I enter what ever commands I want and hit F12
    >> to make it slide away again.
    >>
    >> A lot of the time typing a command is just faster than clicking on a
    >> bunch of things. If I want to see how much free disk space I have, I
    >> just type "df" in to the nearest console. Under Windows 2000 and up
    >> from the desktop it is 3 clicks (4 if you use the start menu in XP
    >> instead of the desktop) to get to the logical disk manager with wait
    >> times for both the microsoft management console to start and for the
    >> MMC applet to connect to the logical disk management service.

    >
    > Eh?
    > Windows
    > 1) <Windows><E> (to open the file explorer)
    > 2) Left-click on the drive you want
    > 3) Right-click on "Properties"


    All of which involves reading text on the screen, looking for the relevant
    item each time, and clicking on it. Total time taken: 2 seconds if you're
    really fast.

    > Linux
    > 1) <F12>
    > 3) <d>
    > 4) <f>
    > 5) <CR>


    Whassa matter, you can't type without looking at the keyboard? Total time
    taken: less than 1 second..
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #4
  5. In article <>, David Goodwin did write:

    > Its a program called Yakuake, "A Quake-style terminal emulator based
    > on KDE Konsole technology".


    Sounds vaguely Japanese, but I think it just means "yet another Quake". :)
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #5
  6. In article <1207812820.537372@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <1207808924.400421@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>
    >>> I used Linux, and the insistence of strict syntax, case
    >>> sensitive and the need for command line BS annoyed the crap out of me.

    >>
    >> Still, it's better than hazard-fraught Dimdows Registry edits, isn't it.
    > >

    > No. (that was easy).
    > I've even written plenty of code reading/writing to windows registry.


    If it's so easy, why are there so many cautions about being careful about
    your backups and what you're doing
    <http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=edit+windows+registry>?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #6
  7. In article <>, David Goodwin did write:

    > I use the console frequently ...


    So do I <http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/9967c41f1dea0937>.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #7
  8. In article <>, David Goodwin did write:

    > I dont think case sensitivity was ever an ideology thing - just a
    > design decision made in the 70s by the people who wrote the original
    > versions of unix.


    There's also another issue--if you're going to make things case-insensitive,
    which language rules do you use? Different languages, even using the same
    alphabet, tend to have subtly different rules about these things.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #8
  9. In article <1207818355.475085@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <1207812820.537372@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In article <1207808924.400421@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I used Linux, and the insistence of strict syntax, case
    >>>>> sensitive and the need for command line BS annoyed the crap out of me.
    >>>> Still, it's better than hazard-fraught Dimdows Registry edits, isn't
    >>>> it.
    >>> >
    >>> No. (that was easy).
    >>> I've even written plenty of code reading/writing to windows registry.

    >>
    >> If it's so easy, why are there so many cautions about being careful about
    >> your backups and what you're doing
    >> <http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=edit+windows+registry>?

    >
    > OTOH Linux users know from years of bitter trial and error, that one
    > small syntax error when working with root privileges can really really
    > **** their day.


    It is written: "To **** up a Linux system, you have to work at it; to ****
    up a Dimdows system, you just have to work on it."
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <>, Allistar did
    write:

    > On a related topic, I note that when I use Linux I am quite often entering
    > my password. When I log in, when I start my mail client (because it uses
    > KWallet), when I run sudo, when I install something etc.


    There would be ways to reduce/avoid this if you want. For instance, on the
    Eee, sudo by default lets you access root privileges without a password.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #10
  11. In article <>, David Goodwin did write:

    > ... not everyone likes using the console. Some people just
    > find it faster than a GUI, others dont.


    To me, it's not so much about speed, it's about flexibility. A GUI can only
    perform functions that the designer envisaged, while a good command line
    can let you combine the basic command-line tools in ways their designers
    never thought of.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #11
  12. In article <1207814889.640915@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:

    > Oh **** - I've fallen asleep and I'm having a nightmare. Instead of
    > right-clicking and selecting "properties", or just looking at the status
    > panel that says xxx mb free, I need to use the keyboard?


    If a command line is such a terrible thing, why is Microsoft trying so hard
    to copy the idea?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 10, 2008
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Mutlley Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >It's bad enough having Dimdows Genuine Disadvantage added to XP and built
    >into Vista, now Microsoft is doing the same thing for Office as well
    ><http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/business_applications/microsoft_doesnt_trust_you.html>.


    Who in their rite mind would want to run Orifice 2007 anyway. Orifice
    2003 or Open Office is fine for me..
    Mutlley, Apr 10, 2008
    #13
  14. In article <>, Allistar did
    write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, Allistar did
    >> write:
    >>
    >>> On a related topic, I note that when I use Linux I am quite often
    >>> entering my password. When I log in, when I start my mail client
    >>> (because it uses KWallet), when I run sudo, when I install something
    >>> etc.

    >>
    >> There would be ways to reduce/avoid this if you want. For instance, on
    >> the Eee, sudo by default lets you access root privileges without a
    >> password.

    >
    > That's hardly secure though, that's basically the same as being logged in
    > as root.


    Not quite that bad. Apps still have to explicitly invoke sudo. Remember, by
    default, everything runs as the non-privileged user called "user".

    I can see why they did it, from the ease-of-use viewpoint: for instance, I
    can bring up the Network Connections utility, and set up my wireless etc,
    without having to be aware that such operations require root privilege--to
    the user, it seems no different from launching Firefox or OpenOffice.
    Whereas under the surface, FIrefox and OpenOffice run non-privileged.

    So you see, there is still security, but it's seamless--doesn't get in the
    user's way, no intrusive UAC popups or anything like that. It just works.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 11, 2008
    #14
  15. In article <>, Allistar did
    write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, Allistar did
    >> write:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In article <>, Allistar
    >>>> did write:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On a related topic, I note that when I use Linux I am quite often
    >>>>> entering my password. When I log in, when I start my mail client
    >>>>> (because it uses KWallet), when I run sudo, when I install something
    >>>>> etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> There would be ways to reduce/avoid this if you want. For instance, on
    >>>> the Eee, sudo by default lets you access root privileges without a
    >>>> password.
    >>>
    >>> That's hardly secure though, that's basically the same as being logged
    >>> in as root.

    >>
    >> Not quite that bad. Apps still have to explicitly invoke sudo. Remember,
    >> by default, everything runs as the non-privileged user called "user".

    >
    > And if the computer is hacked, the hacker gets easy root access.


    If the computer is hacked, that means they already have all the access they
    need.

    Or did you mean something other than "computer"?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 11, 2008
    #15
  16. In article <1207908614.882554@ftpsrv1>, *sling did write:

    >
    > "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    > news:ftksbo$4lp$...
    >> In article <1207818355.475085@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In article <1207812820.537372@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> In article <1207808924.400421@ftpsrv1>, frederick did write:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I used Linux, and the insistence of strict syntax, case
    >>>>>>> sensitive and the need for command line BS annoyed the crap out of
    >>>>>>> me.
    >>>>>> Still, it's better than hazard-fraught Dimdows Registry edits, isn't
    >>>>>> it.
    >>>>> >
    >>>>> No. (that was easy).
    >>>>> I've even written plenty of code reading/writing to windows registry.
    >>>>
    >>>> If it's so easy, why are there so many cautions about being careful
    >>>> about
    >>>> your backups and what you're doing
    >>>> <http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=edit+windows+registry>?
    >>>
    >>> OTOH Linux users know from years of bitter trial and error, that one
    >>> small syntax error when working with root privileges can really really
    >>> **** their day.

    >>
    >> It is written: "To **** up a Linux system, you have to work at it; to
    >> **** up a Dimdows system, you just have to work on it."

    >
    > According to your fasicnating knowledge millions of PCs all over the
    > planet would be fucked.


    Where do you think botnets come from? :)
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 11, 2008
    #16
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