Orcon UBS... Again

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Richard, Sep 23, 2005.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.

    Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.
     
    Richard, Sep 23, 2005
    #1
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  2. Richard

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
    >
    > Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.


    It's driving me crazy! Just when I think they've got everything sorted and I
    get comfortable with my connection they **** it up again. Every time without
    fail.

    I rang them yesterday about my planned upgrade. I spoke to a guy well over a
    week ago and ordered the 2MB with tolls package. He told me that I'd be
    switched to Orcon tolls in two days and that I'd get an email from the DSL
    provisioning team in the next 24 hours informing me of when the speed
    upgrade will go ahead.

    So I rang yesterday having not heard anything from them and wondering who I
    was going to have to pay for my recent toll calls. I'd checked my line speed
    three times in the preceeding hour and it was average/low for 256k. The
    person I spoke to looked at my file and said it was strange. I asked in what
    way. She said that, according to my details I was already on 2MB (Yeah,
    right) and that the other guy was mistaken, orcon tolls hasn't 'gone live'
    yet and won't for at least a couple weeks, I'd be changed over and informed
    by email when it happens.

    She told me she'd put an urgent memo through to provisioning and they'd
    email me pronto and let me know what was going on. I haven't got an email
    yet...........

    Orcon, the new NZ slang term to replace 'Mickey Mouse'. Instead of saying
    "That's pretty bloody Mickey Mouse" it'll soon be "That's pretty damn Orcon"
    or "Avoid them, they're an Orcon outfit".
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 23, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:50:28 +1200, Richard <> wrote:

    >Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
    >
    >Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.


    You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
    Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
    problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
    same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
    elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
    affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
    including Telecom/Xtra.

    I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
    26-Aug), I had short outages at:

    26-Aug 21:42
    02-Sep 21:41
    09-Sep 21:41
    16-Sep 21:41
    23-Sep 21:41

    The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
    say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
    most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
    copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
    (it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
    expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
    retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.

    I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
    them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
    patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
    case.

    And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
    Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
    problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
    anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
    Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
    its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
    an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
    sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
    outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
    hours.
     
    Stephen Worthington, Sep 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Stephen Worthington wrote:

    > You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
    > Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
    > problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
    > same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
    > elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
    > affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
    > including Telecom/Xtra.


    Not my problem, orcon need to get telecom to fix it, I am paying orcon for an
    internet connection

    > I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
    > 26-Aug), I had short outages at:
    >
    > 26-Aug 21:42
    > 02-Sep 21:41
    > 09-Sep 21:41
    > 16-Sep 21:41
    > 23-Sep 21:41
    >
    > The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
    > say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
    > most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
    > copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
    > (it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
    > expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
    > retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.


    Except most routers will clear the nat table when the PPP is downed so yeah, all
    TCP connections are interupted, and UDP will be dead till a packet goes out.

    > I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
    > them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
    > patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
    > case.


    Unfortunalty there is no logs of the PPPoA on the nokia routers so I cant

    > And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
    > Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
    > problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
    > anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
    > Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
    > its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
    > an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
    > sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
    > outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
    > hours.


    I have being tempted to get a cisco many times with the issues I have with nat
    on the nokia, but everytime the cost has put me off it.
     
    Richard, Sep 23, 2005
    #4
  5. Hi there

    We had a few unfortunate and unrelated issues last week which are now
    resolved:

    1) We have recently migrated to two Juniper ERX's to replace our old one
    (ERX's terminate our UBS connections from Telecom). The new ERXs were
    shipped to us with an old version of firmware which has a bug, and this took
    us a little while to diagnose. The software bug resulted in a total of three
    15 minute outages at random times. Unfortunately, some people's DSL routers
    don't automatically try to re-connect, and therefore sometimes unless you
    reset your router, people's connections wouldn't work. This can give the
    perception that outages are lasting longer than they actually are

    2) We had a software fault in our core switch and a second unrelated but
    similar fault in one of our core routers. Both of these were monitored and
    no explantion can be found. We now have standby hardware. This resulted in a
    couple of outages where equipment was rebooting, but had follow on effects
    of routes not propagating in our network etc.

    3) we did some scheduled maintenance last sunday morning, and we're doing
    some more this sunday - so that will result in a few resets of TCP
    connections if people happen to be online or downloading at 4am on a Sunday
    morning.

    We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and believe that
    our network is vastly improved. These outages have been very frustrating for
    that reason, but we definitely believe that we should be on top of things
    and that this really shouldn't be happening from now on.

    Cheers
    Seeby

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
    >
    > Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Sep 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Richard

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > Hi there


    Hi Seeby, thanks for responding.

    > We had a few unfortunate and unrelated issues last week which are now
    > resolved:


    Ok.

    > 1) We have recently migrated to two Juniper ERX's to replace our old
    > one (ERX's terminate our UBS connections from Telecom). The new ERXs
    > were shipped to us with an old version of firmware which has a bug,
    > and this took us a little while to diagnose. The software bug
    > resulted in a total of three 15 minute outages at random times.
    > Unfortunately, some people's DSL routers don't automatically try to
    > re-connect, and therefore sometimes unless you reset your router,
    > people's connections wouldn't work. This can give the perception that
    > outages are lasting longer than they actually are


    My router is good like that, it automatically tries to reconnect every 15-20
    seconds or so if it loses the connection, hence I see things on your usage
    page for my data usage (on your site) such as these two days:

    2005-09-22 16:00:48
    2005-09-22 09:42:00
    2005-09-22 09:39:54
    2005-09-22 08:38:48
    2005-09-22 08:38:19
    2005-09-22 08:37:01
    2005-09-22 08:35:44

    And:
    2005-09-16 14:41:42

    2005-09-16 13:15:24

    2005-09-16 13:13:05

    2005-09-16 08:41:58

    2005-09-16 08:41:35

    2005-09-16 08:06:40

    2005-09-16 08:04:23

    2005-09-16 08:03:22

    2005-09-16 08:01:51

    2005-09-16 08:00:25

    2005-09-16 06:38:58

    2005-09-16 06:38:28

    2005-09-16 06:37:00

    2005-09-16 06:09:47

    2005-09-16 05:13:51

    Now those represent successful connections right? (Please, correct me if I'm
    wrong) That means each time it connected was because it was disconnected
    prior to the re-connection. Rather more than a total of three outages.

    (That looks really messy in my client. Sorry about that, I had major
    problems cut'n'pasting it and then removing irrelevant data. I hope it looks
    better when you view it. Anyway, you should be able to see that the
    connection was going up and down like a (very busy) prostitutes panties on
    those two days. (The worst two days for the month I admit)

    Now I know it's not my router causing problems because it's a little beauty.
    I have to concede that it could be the phone-line although, when I was on
    jetstream, I got awesome download speeds with minimal downtime (If any) and
    it hasn't troubled me in all the years I was here on dial-up. Constantly
    connected to Xtra for weeks on end. (We don't need no steenking land-line
    incoming calls)

    For the month before, again from your "My Usage" page, the longest
    connection was:

    2005-08-10 10:57:04 Connected 12 days, 12:43:00 271.62 MB
    779.05 MB BitStream.

    Although there were a couple of days in the July/August billing period where
    I had problems too:

    2005-08-10 10:57:04

    2005-08-10 10:09:01

    2005-08-10 01:59:33

    2005-08-10 01:54:55

    And:

    2005-07-23 00:17:54

    2005-07-23 00:02:26

    2005-07-23 00:00:36



    (Note that this data only shows the time of connection. I have no way of
    telling from your page how long I was actually disconnected for between the
    succsessful re-connections)


    The other longest periods connected for that month were 9 days, 3 days and 2
    days. Your history goes back no further so I can't say if I've ever been
    connected for longer than 12 days.

    > 2) We had a software fault in our core switch and a second unrelated
    > but similar fault in one of our core routers. Both of these were
    > monitored and no explantion can be found. We now have standby
    > hardware. This resulted in a couple of outages where equipment was
    > rebooting, but had follow on effects of routes not propagating in our
    > network etc.
    > 3) we did some scheduled maintenance last sunday morning, and we're
    > doing some more this sunday - so that will result in a few resets of
    > TCP connections if people happen to be online or downloading at 4am
    > on a Sunday morning.
    >
    > We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and
    > believe that our network is vastly improved. These outages have been
    > very frustrating for that reason, but we definitely believe that we
    > should be on top of things and that this really shouldn't be
    > happening from now on.


    Pleased to hear it Seeby.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 24, 2005
    #6
  7. Richard

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Stephen Worthington wrote:
    > On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:50:28 +1200, Richard <> wrote:
    >
    >> Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
    >>
    >> Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems
    >> there.

    >
    > You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
    > Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
    > problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
    > same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
    > elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
    > affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
    > including Telecom/Xtra.


    I have a friend just up the road, on the same DSLAM (I don't think they've
    put in an ASAM here yet) who is with Xtra on a 2BM plan and he's had a
    perfect connection record. Zero outages except for one a couple months back
    that took out the whole DSLAM for a few hours.

    > I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
    > 26-Aug), I had short outages at:
    >
    > 26-Aug 21:42
    > 02-Sep 21:41
    > 09-Sep 21:41
    > 16-Sep 21:41
    > 23-Sep 21:41
    >
    > The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
    > say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
    > most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
    > copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
    > (it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
    > expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
    > retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.
    >
    > I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
    > them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
    > patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
    > case.


    Indeed. However I don't have logs as such. If this contimues I'll set up an
    old pentium as an always-on monitoring device. I have the software to do it,
    a nice little app that monitors the SNMP from my router. (MRTG)

    > And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
    > Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
    > problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
    > anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
    > Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
    > its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
    > an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
    > sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
    > outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
    > hours.


    Thanks for your input Stephen. Hope your weekend is going well.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 24, 2005
    #7
  8. On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:02:38 +1200, Richard <> wrote:

    >Stephen Worthington wrote:


    >> And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
    >> Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
    >> problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
    >> anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
    >> Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
    >> its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
    >> an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
    >> sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
    >> outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
    >> hours.

    >
    >I have being tempted to get a cisco many times with the issues I have with nat
    >on the nokia, but everytime the cost has put me off it.


    Ciscos are much cheaper now than they were when I got mine, but still
    much more expensive than most other ADSL boxes. When I got mine,
    there was only the choice of a Nokia or Cisco, IIRC, and I am very
    glad I got a Cisco as it has a 24 V AC power supply. I am quite some
    distance from the exchange, and it turns out that having the extra
    signaling headroom provided by running from 24 V instead of 12 V is
    what makes the difference between connecting or not this far away. All
    the extra features you get in a Cisco are nice too, but they only work
    if you can connect in the first place. I did not know all that when I
    got my Cisco 827 - it was pretty early in the use of ADSL in NZ, and I
    suspect the Telecom tech people did not know about that problem at the
    time either.

    But... Programming a Cisco is not for the faint hearted. I managed to
    get most of the simple stuff working by using their web site and an NZ
    one that gave basic setups, but I have had to call on Cisco tech
    support far more than I would have liked over the years to get the
    extra things to work. Which means paying them for an annual support
    contract, which again is much, much cheaper than it used to be, but
    still an annoying amount every year. And even after all the years I
    have had it, they have still not fixed one logging bug!
     
    Stephen Worthington, Sep 24, 2005
    #8
  9. T'was the Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:03:27 +1200 when I remembered "Seeby
    Woodhouse - Orcon Internet" <> saying
    something like this:

    >We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and believe that
    >our network is vastly improved. These outages have been very frustrating for
    >that reason, but we definitely believe that we should be on top of things
    >and that this really shouldn't be happening from now on.


    Seeby,

    I congratulate you on being honest to your customers, I think as long
    as most people are informed about what is going on, they tend not to
    complain as much. This doesn't necessarily go for those in nz.comp,
    but I was talking about the majority more than the minority here.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Richard

    Paul Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote:


    >
    >My router is good like that, it automatically tries to reconnect every 15-20
    >seconds or so if it loses the connection, hence I see things on your usage
    >page for my data usage (on your site) such as these two days:
    >
    >2005-09-22 16:00:48
    >2005-09-22 09:42:00
    >2005-09-22 09:39:54
    >2005-09-22 08:38:48
    >2005-09-22 08:38:19
    >2005-09-22 08:37:01
    >2005-09-22 08:35:44
    >
    >And:
    >2005-09-16 14:41:42
    >
    >2005-09-16 13:15:24
    >
    >2005-09-16 13:13:05
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:41:58
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:41:35
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:06:40
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:04:23
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:03:22
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:01:51
    >
    >2005-09-16 08:00:25
    >
    >2005-09-16 06:38:58
    >
    >2005-09-16 06:38:28
    >
    >2005-09-16 06:37:00
    >
    >2005-09-16 06:09:47
    >
    >2005-09-16 05:13:51
    >
    >Now those represent successful connections right? (Please, correct me if I'm
    >wrong) That means each time it connected was because it was disconnected
    >prior to the re-connection. Rather more than a total of three outages.

    Hi Misfit
    If your Dsl is dropping I dont think that will have anything to do
    with orcon The dsl link is between your dslam and router So could be
    a faulty port,line,router or setup ie a missed filter or faulty filter
    If its your ppp dropping then that could be orcons fault
    I would ring telecom <if u dont mind the wait> and ask for a linetest
    also try a standard cord from router to jackpoint as there has been a
    lot of problems with the self install filters <dlink are the worst> as
    the router doesnt need a filter only the phones,sky decoders ect do
    Btw when you were getting your slow speeds to the states was it only
    on the 1st International test <www.speedtest.co.nz>?

    Cheers -Paul
    "Overclockers do it hotter and faster"
     
    Paul, Sep 26, 2005
    #10
  11. Richard

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> My router is good like that, it automatically tries to reconnect
    >> every 15-20 seconds or so if it loses the connection, hence I see
    >> things on your usage page for my data usage (on your site) such as
    >> these two days:
    >>
    >> 2005-09-22 16:00:48
    >> 2005-09-22 09:42:00
    >> 2005-09-22 09:39:54
    >> 2005-09-22 08:38:48
    >> 2005-09-22 08:38:19
    >> 2005-09-22 08:37:01
    >> 2005-09-22 08:35:44
    >>
    >> And:
    >> 2005-09-16 14:41:42
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 13:15:24
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 13:13:05
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:41:58
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:41:35
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:06:40
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:04:23
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:03:22
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:01:51
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 08:00:25
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 06:38:58
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 06:38:28
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 06:37:00
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 06:09:47
    >>
    >> 2005-09-16 05:13:51
    >>
    >> Now those represent successful connections right? (Please, correct
    >> me if I'm wrong) That means each time it connected was because it
    >> was disconnected prior to the re-connection. Rather more than a
    >> total of three outages.

    > Hi Misfit


    Hey Paul.

    > If your Dsl is dropping I dont think that will have anything to do
    > with orcon


    Well, it does seem strange that, whenever My DSL drops, Orcon helldesk gives
    an engaged signal. The rest of the time I can ring them just fine. I just
    rang them an hour ago, no problems.

    > The dsl link is between your dslam and router So could be
    > a faulty port,line,router or setup ie a missed filter or faulty filter


    T'was fine with Jetstream.

    > If its your ppp dropping then that could be orcons fault


    How would I tell this? Is there any way without leaving a PC running 24/7 to
    monitor it? (Alcatel Speedtouch 510 router).

    Just checked. I went into the router Via Firefox and it only seems to hold
    records for the last 20-odd 'incidents'. (four days worth in this case).
    They are all either "PPP link down (PPPoA_1) <IP here>", "PPP PAP
    authenticate request sent", "PPP PAP on intf PPPoA_1, no response to PAP
    authenticate request" or "PPP PAP authenticate request failed (PPPoA_1)".
    That's telling huh? The last entry is "PPP link up (PPPoA_1) <IP here>" two
    days ago. The previous bunch were two days earlier.

    These PPP entries correspond with Orcon's usage page for my account, the
    connection dropped two days ago and again two days before that. This is two
    more outages since I last posted in this thread, since Seeby said it's all
    sorted now.

    > I would ring telecom <if u dont mind the wait> and ask for a linetest


    Did that a while back, all good.

    > also try a standard cord from router to jackpoint as there has been a
    > lot of problems with the self install filters <dlink are the worst> as
    > the router doesnt need a filter only the phones,sky decoders ect do


    'Kay, I don't have the right cord to try that (I think).

    > Btw when you were getting your slow speeds to the states was it only
    > on the 1st International test <www.speedtest.co.nz>?


    In general, from memory, the first one (1 & 1 Internet Inc.) is usually
    about 10% slower than the second.

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 27, 2005
    #11
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