Orcon News Server Auth Problems - latest update

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. Hi there

    Well - we (Orcon) made the change to Giganews yesterday, and everything was
    going ok.

    However, users are now getting intermittant authentication issues to the
    Giganews server.
    This is being caused because NOT because we forgot to add netblocks to the
    'permit' lists, but because we are running out of news 'ports', and Giganews
    then denies requests.

    Although we purchased the same number of news 'ports' from Giganews as our
    old provider, it appears that Giganews allows up to 10 simultaneous
    connections per client, wheras our old provider only allowed one, and so the
    first users that are connecting are sucking up all the allowable
    connections.

    We have decided that rather than simply doubling or tripling the number of
    ports we purchase from Giganews we are going to go back to running our own
    local news server, but that we will take our upstream feed from Giganews. So
    users will still get the full 100,000+ newsgroups, and long article
    retention, but also having a local server will also mean that header
    download speeds etc should be as good as they can be.

    We've just about completed deploying the new local news server, and we'll
    move the nameserver records over to the server soon.
    Unfortunately, you'll probably have to reset your newsgroup lists etc again
    to avoid confusing your news client.

    Really sorry about this - we are commiting to get news working right though
    dammit! :)

    Warm Regards

    Seeby Woodhouse
    CEO Orcon Internet
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > Really sorry about this - we are commiting to get news working right though
    > dammit! :)


    heh, sorry, just had to laugh.

    "It's not economic"
    "It's really not"

    "We're making our own"
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 13, 2005
    #2
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  3. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Steven Ellis Guest

    So how may ports will they cap each user at on their local service?

    What are the odds that they simply implement a local news cache?

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Apr 13, 2005
    #3

  4. > So how may ports will they cap each user at on their local service?

    As it will be our own server, we see no point to put any caps on the number
    of ports per user for the local service - so basically unlimited

    > What are the odds that they simply implement a local news cache?

    We're going to run DNEWS like most other ISPs, and take feeds from the other
    local ISPs (for speed of propagation of nz.* groups), and a feed from
    Giganews for everything else

    Cheers
    Seeby
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #4
  5. Running a local server actually has some advantages to outsourcing (e.g.
    speed for users, savings on international bandwidth), but there is a time
    commitment in terms of configs.
    If we can't make our service work the way it should, then we'll point
    everything back to Giganews and simply purchase more ports

    Cheers
    Seeby

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    >> Really sorry about this - we are commiting to get news working right
    >> though dammit! :)

    >
    > heh, sorry, just had to laugh.
    >
    > "It's not economic"
    > "It's really not"
    >
    > "We're making our own"
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #5
  6. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > We're going to run DNEWS like most other ISPs, and take feeds from the other
    > local ISPs (for speed of propagation of nz.* groups), and a feed from
    > Giganews for everything else


    Seeby, could you please confirm that you will be using IHAVE feeds to
    propagate news back to Giganews and between NZ ISPs?

    You may recall the multi-layered sucking arrangement you had previously
    caused numerous problems.

    I assume you will be sucking news from Giganews?

    Don't use the header sucking mode, it is unreliable and limits you to a
    single upstream server. Also don't be tempted to 'upgrade' to SurgeNews
    (The replacement for DNews), it still seems very unreliable.

    Will you be allowing larger articles than you did previously?

    Thanks,

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Apr 13, 2005
    #6
  7. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Steven Ellis Guest

    It would be great to see it work.

    I see that the DNS has flipped over already, but I can't get any
    articles in any of the groups.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Apr 13, 2005
    #7
  8. Steven Ellis wrote:
    > It would be great to see it work.
    >
    > I see that the DNS has flipped over already, but I can't get any
    > articles in any of the groups.
    >


    The server is running in sucking mode, the group must be 'cached' to
    cause DNews to download the articles.

    If you see no messages in your client, telnet in to the server and read
    an article manually...

    telnet news.orcon.net.nz 119
    S: 200 news.orcon.net.nz DNEWS Version 5.7e1,, S0, posting OK
    C: group alt.tv.mwc
    S: 211 1 3945 3945 alt.tv.mwc selected
    C: article 3945
    S: 220 3945 <> article retrieved - head and body follows
    ....

    That will cause the group to be cached and it should update the next
    time DNews sucks from Giganews.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Apr 13, 2005
    #8
  9. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Steven Ellis Guest

    Any chance you can get the local news group list populated. At the
    moment you only show control groups.
     
    Steven Ellis, Apr 13, 2005
    #9
  10. In answer to your questions

    - We'll be using IHAVE to other NZ ISPs for fast, accurate propagation of
    ..nz groups
    - We'll be sucking from Giganews as to take a full feed would use silly
    amounts of bandwidth and disk space for the number of customers that we
    have - that said, sucking should work just fine
    - We're not using the header sucking mode
    - We won't be using SurgeNews
    - I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger articles' as far as I am aware we
    didn't previously impose an article size limit. Perhaps problems were caused
    by an article size limit of our previous upstream provider (wasn't Giganews)
    when we were previously running our own server

    Cheers
    Seeby

    "The Other Guy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    >> We're going to run DNEWS like most other ISPs, and take feeds from the
    >> other local ISPs (for speed of propagation of nz.* groups), and a feed
    >> from Giganews for everything else

    >
    > Seeby, could you please confirm that you will be using IHAVE feeds to
    > propagate news back to Giganews and between NZ ISPs?
    >
    > You may recall the multi-layered sucking arrangement you had previously
    > caused numerous problems.
    >
    > I assume you will be sucking news from Giganews?
    >
    > Don't use the header sucking mode, it is unreliable and limits you to a
    > single upstream server. Also don't be tempted to 'upgrade' to SurgeNews
    > (The replacement for DNews), it still seems very unreliable.
    >
    > Will you be allowing larger articles than you did previously?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > The Other Guy
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #10
  11. Should be propagated now - just took a while to get everything sorted.

    "Steven Ellis" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Any chance you can get the local news group list populated. At the
    > moment you only show control groups.
    >
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #11
  12. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Steven Ellis Guest

    Well you appear to show the news groups, but getting articles is a bit
    shoddy.

    Some groups are showing 20-30 articles when there should be thousands,
    and yes i've cleaned out my usenet cache.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Apr 13, 2005
    #12
  13. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > In answer to your questions
    >
    > - We'll be using IHAVE to other NZ ISPs for fast, accurate propagation of
    > .nz groups
    > - We'll be sucking from Giganews as to take a full feed would use silly
    > amounts of bandwidth and disk space for the number of customers that we
    > have - that said, sucking should work just fine


    Sucking is fine for getting articles, not good for sending them. You can
    configure DNews to suck from giganews.com and feed articles using IHAVE.
    This is much more reliable* and gives you control over the abuse headers.

    newsfeeds.conf

    site server.giganews.com
    type dfeed
    groups *
    max_path 3

    The max_path setting limits feeding to articles with 'max_path' items or
    less in the 'path' header. This would allow you to actively help
    propagate news from other NZ ISPs, without wasting excessive amounts of
    bandwidth.

    You can instead use 'onlyposts' which limits the feeding to only
    messages posted directly to news.orcon.net.nz.

    > - We're not using the header sucking mode
    > - We won't be using SurgeNews


    Both good to hear :)

    > - I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger articles' as far as I am aware we
    > didn't previously impose an article size limit. Perhaps problems were caused
    > by an article size limit of our previous upstream provider (wasn't Giganews)
    > when we were previously running our own server


    The old server run by Orcon didn't have any binary (or text) posts in
    excess of 100KB. You were at the time using NNTPCache from memory, and
    sucking from another ISP using DNews and who probably set the limit.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Apr 13, 2005
    #13
  14. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Nova Guest

    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > Should be propagated now - just took a while to get everything sorted.
    >
    > "Steven Ellis" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Any chance you can get the local news group list populated. At the
    >>moment you only show control groups.
    >>

    >
    >
    >


    But there's something strange happening now..

    I click on a new message and it appears almost instantly...
     
    Nova, Apr 13, 2005
    #14
  15. Err - that's a problem?
    Or are you being sarcastic? :)

    >
    > But there's something strange happening now..
    >
    > I click on a new message and it appears almost instantly...
     
    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet, Apr 13, 2005
    #15
  16. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    steve Guest

    Glad to hear it..

    You can / will ditch all the binaries groups - of course - and that
    should improve matters greatly.

    It's been a frustrating year........let's hope it's over.
     
    steve, Apr 13, 2005
    #16
  17. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    steve Guest

    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > Running a local server actually has some advantages to outsourcing

    (e.g.
    > speed for users, savings on international bandwidth), but there is a

    time
    > commitment in terms of configs.
    > If we can't make our service work the way it should, then we'll point


    > everything back to Giganews and simply purchase more ports


    Maybe some cheap (or free?) help from folks who can get it working
    right would be cheaper than going back to Giganews.

    Pride is one of the deadly sins......and we just want a (cheap for you,
    good for us) news server that works.

    :)
     
    steve, Apr 13, 2005
    #17
  18. steve wrote:
    > Glad to hear it..
    >
    > You can / will ditch all the binaries groups - of course - and that
    > should improve matters greatly.
    >
    > It's been a frustrating year........let's hope it's over.


    From what Seeby has said, we will be keeping the binaries. Personally I
    would have ditched them long ago and only had non-binary groups. A full
    text-only feed is only a few GB per day, and I think that is all most of
    us actually want. Individual.net which I think most people ended up
    using was a text-only service.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Apr 13, 2005
    #18
  19. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Nova Guest

    Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
    > Err - that's a problem?
    > Or are you being sarcastic? :)
    >
    >
    >>But there's something strange happening now..
    >>
    >>I click on a new message and it appears almost instantly...

    >
    >
    >


    heh yeah, it's lightning fast.. good stuff :)
     
    Nova, Apr 13, 2005
    #19
  20. Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet

    Steven Ellis Guest

    What groups is it fast on? Local NZ ones?

    At the moment non-local groups are taking a while to propogate.

    Have your placed a time cut off for what point you can grab from
    Giganews as some groups won't show messages over 24 hours old.

    Steve
     
    Steven Ellis, Apr 13, 2005
    #20
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