Orcon email send error

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Worm, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Worm

    Worm Guest

    Hi,

    Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
    each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
    whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
    outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
    seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
    server to relay my messages...

    Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
    have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
    me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.

    "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"

    Cheers,
    --


    Worm
    Worm, Feb 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. Worm

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:27:29 +1300, Worm wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
    > each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
    > whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
    > outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
    > seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
    > server to relay my messages...
    >
    > Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
    > have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
    > me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
    >
    > "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    > e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    > ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    > 'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    > blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    > Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
    >
    > Cheers,


    Using http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/ip4r.ch?ip=210.86.119.21, there is a
    suggestion that you may have been owned.

    Your address is listed in a number of online databases that check for this
    kind of abuse. However, some of these services ( sorbs is a classic ) will
    blacklist huge chunks of the internet if they feel like it.

    Do you check for malware ( lavasoft, spybot ), and reqularly run a virus
    check ( grisoft avg )??? I'd check your machine thoroughly, and then
    complain loudly to telecon about it. We punters haven't got nearly a loud
    enough voice.

    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. Worm

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:27:29 +1300, Worm wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
    > each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
    > whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
    > outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
    > seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
    > server to relay my messages...
    >
    > Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
    > have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
    > me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
    >
    > "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    > e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    > ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    > 'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    > blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    > Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
    >
    > Cheers,


    Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
    telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
    of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
    you're logged on through them.

    That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
    give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
    only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.

    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Worm

    David Guest

    Worm wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
    > each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
    > whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
    > outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
    > seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
    > server to relay my messages...
    >
    > Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
    > have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
    > me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
    >
    > "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    > e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    > ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    > 'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    > blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    > Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
    >
    > Cheers,


    Can you not use xtra's smtp server? (smtp.xtra.co.nz). From an Xtra IP
    you won't need to login. I use this setup (mail.orcon.net.nz for
    incoming, smtp.xtra.co.nz for outgoing).
    David, Feb 14, 2006
    #4

  5. >
    > "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    > e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    > ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    > 'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    > blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    > Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"
    >


    Have you checked the http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21 as said
    It has said the IP Addres you are on (in the past) (Mar 2003) was an open
    relay (socks4/socks5/http).

    dsbl.org is quite a common RBL that people use and the webpage
    as above will tell you how to remove yourself from the RBL

    You will have to contact Xtra to get the removal email sent to them
    and they will have to confirm the removal email.

    At the moment if you want to send emails set your outgoing to Xtra's
    Email servers will most likely "fix" your troubles.
    Thanks
    Craig - Orcon
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Worm

    Worm Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
    > telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
    > of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
    > you're logged on through them.
    >
    > That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
    > give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
    > only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.
    >
    > Steve


    Thank you for the advice - and explaining the logging on function. I am now
    using the Xtra outgoing mail server, and Orcon incoming.

    Cheers,


    Worm
    Worm, Feb 14, 2006
    #6

  7. >
    > Can you not use xtra's smtp server? (smtp.xtra.co.nz). From an Xtra IP you
    > won't need to login. I use this setup (mail.orcon.net.nz for incoming,
    > smtp.xtra.co.nz for outgoing).


    You can use Orcon's SMTP server (and turn on STMP Auth) if you want
    to send out via it.. and it works fine. (Unless your IP Address is on an RBL
    like Worm's is)

    Thanks
    Craig
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Worm

    Rob J Guest

    In article <JZcIf.146281$>,
    says...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Is anyone able to shed light on this error Outlook Express spits out at me
    > each time I try and send an email? I am currently on Xtra jetstream (or
    > whatever its called this week), and have Outlook Express set to log into my
    > outgoing mail server (smtp.orcon.net.nz), however from the error I get it
    > seems to suggest the server thinks I am trying to spam and use the mail
    > server to relay my messages...
    >
    > Any ideas..? This issue has only started in the last couple of weeks. I'd
    > have thought logging into the outgoing mail server would continue to allow
    > me to send mail via Orcon mail servers.
    >
    > "The message could not be sent because the server rejected the sender's
    > e-mail address. The sender's e-mail address was
    > ''. Subject '', Account: 'Orcon Mail', Server:
    > 'smtp.orcon.net.nz', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '553 5.3.0 Spam
    > blocked see: http://www.dsbl.org/listing?210.86.119.21', Port: 25,
    > Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 553, Error Number: 0x800CCC78"


    No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
    on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
    because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
    the above mentioned type of authentication.

    You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
    dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
    works across domains.
    Rob J, Feb 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Worm

    Richard Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
    > telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
    > of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
    > you're logged on through them.
    >
    > That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
    > give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
    > only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.


    Perhaps because he wants to send email with his orcon address and actually have
    a hope of it getting thru spam filters, if it goes via the xtra one it will have
    absolutly nothing orcon related in the hosts its being thru so will be more
    likly to be tagged as spam, like all the emails that trademe sends out
    impersonating the address of there users do.
    Richard, Feb 14, 2006
    #9
  10. Worm

    Richard Guest

    Rob J wrote:

    > No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
    > on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
    > because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
    > the above mentioned type of authentication.
    >
    > You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
    > dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
    > works across domains.


    All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
    you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
    is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
    suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.

    If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the correct
    smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make records saying
    which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.
    Richard, Feb 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Worm

    Steve Guest

    On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:04:47 +1300, Richard wrote:

    > Steve wrote:
    >
    >> Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
    >> telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
    >> of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
    >> you're logged on through them.
    >>
    >> That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
    >> give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
    >> only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.

    >
    > Perhaps because he wants to send email with his orcon address and actually have
    > a hope of it getting thru spam filters, if it goes via the xtra one it will have
    > absolutly nothing orcon related in the hosts its being thru so will be more
    > likly to be tagged as spam, like all the emails that trademe sends out
    > impersonating the address of there users do.


    The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
    do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
    emails.

    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Worm

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:14:10 +1300, Worm wrote:

    > "Steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> Hang about... why on earth are you using the orcon mail gateway from
    >> telecon? No wonder it's telling you to bog off. You're probably the cause
    >> of the IP address being blacklisted. Just use telecom's gateway when
    >> you're logged on through them.
    >>
    >> That box is there because some ISPs require you to log on - it doesn't
    >> give you the ability to authenticate to a mail gateway if it's set up to
    >> only accept connections from a specific (orcon) ip address range.
    >>
    >> Steve

    >
    > Thank you for the advice - and explaining the logging on function. I am now
    > using the Xtra outgoing mail server, and Orcon incoming.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    >
    > Worm

    Y're welcome.

    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #12
  13. Worm

    Steve Guest

    On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:08:15 +1300, Richard wrote:

    > Rob J wrote:
    >
    >> No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
    >> on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
    >> because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
    >> the above mentioned type of authentication.
    >>
    >> You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
    >> dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
    >> works across domains.

    >
    > All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
    > you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
    > is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
    > suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.

    Unlikely. I rather think that spam filters are only set for Incoming Mail.
    Mind you, that could be why they're working so badly :)
    >
    > If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the
    > correct smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make
    > records saying which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.

    It hasn't, and it won't. However, the From: address in an email is *not*
    what is being validated. The content of an email is just payload, and can
    contain anything you want. The validation has been taken care of in the
    handshaking performed around it.


    Steve
    Steve, Feb 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Worm

    EMB Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
    > do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
    > emails.


    Learn about what sort of tests spam filters do - and then you'll
    understand that it is becoming much mroe important for there to be a
    relationship between the sender's email address and the server used.

    And it's not Xtra filtering outgoing that's the proble, it's the
    recipient's mail server filtering it upon arrival that may be an issue.

    --
    EMB
    EMB, Feb 14, 2006
    #14
  15. Worm

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:08:15 +1300, Richard <> wrote:

    >Rob J wrote:
    >
    >> No it doesn't, for the simple reason that most smtp servers authenticate
    >> on the IP address of the connection. They are not set up for logging in
    >> because that is not part of the SMTP protocol and is not required with
    >> the above mentioned type of authentication.
    >>
    >> You must always use the SMTP service provided by the ISP you are
    >> dialling out on unless you have access to another SMTP service that
    >> works across domains.

    >
    >All well and good to do that before this little thing called spam filters, if
    >you use the xtra smtp, and you post from an xtra ip address and the from field
    >is an orcon address, then it will likly be treated as spam, if not raise
    >suspicion with some of the anti-phising tools that are becoming common now.
    >


    Anyone who filters on that criteria would have to be pretty stupid
    IMO. A good 90% of people who have their own domain name would be
    using their ISPs SMTP server to send mail, but few of them would be
    using the same ISP to host their domain. POP3 doesn't have the same
    issues as SMTP, with the odd exception of crowds like Xtra you can log
    into POP3 servers from anywhere, so plenty of people point their mx
    records at cheap hosting companies for receiving mail & use their ISP
    for sending only. It's pretty standard practice.

    >If SPF actually gets anywhere then it will be more important that the correct
    >smtp server is used as the owner of the domain will have to make records saying
    >which are allowed to be used to send from that domain.


    Here's hoping it never happens then, sounds like bureaucracy gone mad,

    GT
    Gavin Tunney, Feb 15, 2006
    #15
  16. Worm

    Richard Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > Steve wrote:
    >
    >> The From: and Reply-To: addresses in the email has absolutely nothing to
    >> do with the sender. I also don't think that Xtra are filtering outgoing
    >> emails.

    >
    >
    > Learn about what sort of tests spam filters do - and then you'll
    > understand that it is becoming much mroe important for there to be a
    > relationship between the sender's email address and the server used.
    >
    > And it's not Xtra filtering outgoing that's the proble, it's the
    > recipient's mail server filtering it upon arrival that may be an issue.


    Exactly

    To a mail server, an email coming from (somedynamicIP).blah.cn to them with the
    sender address of "" or one coming from
    (somedynamicIP).xtra.co.nz with the sender address of "" are
    just as suspicious.
    Richard, Feb 16, 2006
    #16
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