[ORC #EOS-80338-870]: Missing Articles in New Groups

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Chris Mayhew, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. Chris Mayhew

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    I sent an email to Orcon support on 3rd October :

    "Hi

    1. Do you know that there are many missing articles in News Groups -
    nz.comp, to name but one ?

    2. When will this be sorted out ?

    3. Why are the adds added to the bottom of posts ?, they were removed.

    Look forward to your help

    Regards "

    I got 2 replies on 15 October, the first one was blank the second said:

    "Hi,

    The news group is there as it is one of the nes that i read most mornings.

    Regards
    Orcon Support, Technical Support Team"

    OK, so I waited 12 days to some fool to tell me that the group was there
    (no shit!) and they read it (yeah right!) so I sent a reply (just the 1
    copy </sic>):

    "Hi

    I know the News Group is there too, but there are many missing posts
    within the NG, thats what I'm asking you about.

    Regards"

    I got a reply on the 28 October which said the following:

    " "

    Yep, another blank email, Ha Ha Ha, that was really funny Orcon

    So, it's been 25 days, I've received 2 blank emails and a bit of rubbish
    from someone that didn't read my original email anyway.

    This ISP is SOOOO bad at some things, I think I'll stick around just to
    be a prick. Of course they might improve HA HA HA, "what an utter
    joke.." as Roger would say.

    Many people speak highly of Orcon - thats why I signed up (and have
    recommended them to other people), but what an utter disappointment (ha
    ha, you though I was going to say "joke" didn't you). I'd be happy for
    Orcon to prove me wrong but, as I don't think I'd look good blue, I
    won't hold my breath.



    --
    Chris Mayhew, Oct 31, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Chris Mayhew

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net>
    provided this moment of wisdom:

    Like many others, I switched to Orcon because of their "reputation" as
    an outstanding ISP. I was (like many others) very disappointed that
    the reality didn't even come close to the "reputation". I switched
    back to Xtra (argh, you know stuff is bad when you have to return to
    Xtra), after endless problems with ALL of Orcon's alledged services.

    It's a shame, because we need an alternative that can "walk the walk"
    rather than just "talk the talk".

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------
    /Begin Sig
    Vs lbh pna ernq guvf......
    Lbh haqrefgnaq gur onfvpf :)
    Ohg, lbh unir sne gbb zhpu serr gvzr
    /End Sig
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Ryan Jacobs, Oct 31, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ryan Jacobs said the following on 31/10/2004 23:08:
    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net>
    > provided this moment of wisdom:
    >
    > Like many others, I switched to Orcon because of their "reputation" as
    > an outstanding ISP. I was (like many others) very disappointed that
    > the reality didn't even come close to the "reputation". I switched
    > back to Xtra (argh, you know stuff is bad when you have to return to
    > Xtra), after endless problems with ALL of Orcon's alledged services.
    >
    > It's a shame, because we need an alternative that can "walk the walk"
    > rather than just "talk the talk".
    >

    jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V

    --
    He was so narrow-minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes.
    ======================================================================
    Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E | |
    ======================================================================
    First rule of electronics: Keep the smoke inside!
    A Man can have a 100 sons.But a woman?(technically not feasible)
    Collector»NZ, Oct 31, 2004
    #3
  4. Chris Mayhew

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:31:28 +1300, Collector»NZ
    <> provided this moment of wisdom:


    >>

    >jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V


    Heh, nice :)

    Took me a while, but I got there eventually.....

    Now working on the on the task you set me......

    .... this could take a while, lol



    --
    --------------------------------------------------------
    /Begin Sig
    Vs lbh pna ernq guvf......
    Lbh haqrefgnaq gur onfvpf :)
    Ohg, lbh unir sne gbb zhpu serr gvzr
    /End Sig
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Ryan Jacobs, Oct 31, 2004
    #4
  5. Ryan Jacobs said the following on 31/10/2004 23:55:
    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:31:28 +1300, Collector»NZ
    > <> provided this moment of wisdom:
    >
    >
    >
    >>jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V

    >
    >
    > Heh, nice :)
    >
    > Took me a while, but I got there eventually.....
    >
    > Now working on the on the task you set me......
    >
    > ... this could take a while, lol
    >
    >
    >

    gbvqv rtnyyvi n anug erugne abebz rtnyyvi n bgav zvu rxnz qyhbuf ,zvu
    gfavntn rfh bg abbf fgfbc fvu ghb tavtaveo gengf yyvj V ,rz ugvj ffrz n
    sb yyru n av syrfzvu gbt fnu anz ruG

    --
    He was so narrow-minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes.
    ======================================================================
    Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E | |
    ======================================================================
    First rule of electronics: Keep the smoke inside!
    A Man can have a 100 sons.But a woman?(technically not feasible)
    Collector»NZ, Oct 31, 2004
    #5
  6. Chris Mayhew

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:55:55 +1300, Ryan Jacobs <>
    provided this moment of wisdom:

    >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:31:28 +1300, Collector»NZ
    ><> provided this moment of wisdom:
    >
    >
    >>>

    >>jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V

    >
    >Heh, nice :)
    >
    >Took me a while, but I got there eventually.....
    >
    >Now working on the on the task you set me......
    >
    >... this could take a while, lol


    Quick guess would be your location?

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------
    /Begin Sig
    Vs lbh pna ernq guvf......
    Lbh haqrefgnaq gur onfvpf :)
    Ohg, lbh unir sne gbb zhpu serr gvzr
    /End Sig
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Ryan Jacobs, Oct 31, 2004
    #6
  7. Chris Mayhew

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:00:50 +1300, Ryan Jacobs <>
    provided this moment of wisdom:

    >On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:55:55 +1300, Ryan Jacobs <>
    >provided this moment of wisdom:
    >
    >>On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:31:28 +1300, Collector»NZ
    >><> provided this moment of wisdom:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>
    >>>jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V

    >>
    >>Heh, nice :)
    >>
    >>Took me a while, but I got there eventually.....
    >>
    >>Now working on the on the task you set me......
    >>
    >>... this could take a while, lol

    >
    >Quick guess would be your location?


    Ah, no, I see now.... someone else's location?


    --
    --------------------------------------------------------
    /Begin Sig
    Vs lbh pna ernq guvf......
    Lbh haqrefgnaq gur onfvpf :)
    Ohg, lbh unir sne gbb zhpu serr gvzr
    /End Sig
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Ryan Jacobs, Oct 31, 2004
    #7
  8. Chris Mayhew

    Brendan Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew wrote:

    > Many people speak highly of Orcon - thats why I signed up (and have
    > recommended them to other people), but what an utter disappointment (ha
    > ha, you though I was going to say "joke" didn't you). I'd be happy for
    > Orcon to prove me wrong but, as I don't think I'd look good blue, I
    > won't hold my breath.


    Yeah, same here. They have really gone down the shitter in the last few
    months.

    ¡E total incompetence in getting a news server that works.

    ¡E inflexible anti-spam system totally devoid of meaningful documentation.

    ¡E outright ignoring of emails sent to them on their myriad problems.

    ¡E help desk general ignorance of a wide range of basic internet terms and
    facilities.

    ¡E occasional problems with the email system and random timeouts connecting
    to their servers.

    ¡E seemingly increasing disinterest in customer satisfaction.

    It will not be long before the falling quality of Orcon becomes apparent to
    more and more of their customers. It's sad as they used to be soo good..

    Is there an ISP that is like how Orcon used to be like, when they cared
    about quality ?

    --

    .... Brendan

    "Virtue has never been as respectable as money." -- Mark Twain

    Note: All my comments are copyright 1/11/2004 1:16:41 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

    ************************************************************************
    * THE BELOW ADVERT IS NOT MY WORK AND IS APPENDED AGAINST MY WISHES. *
    * NEWSFEEDS.COM'S CLAIM OF 100,000 GROUPS IS BOGUS AS MANY OF THEM *
    * ARE ILLEGITIMATE AND DELETED BY MOST OTHERS. NEWSFEEDS.COM CANNOT *
    *BE TRUSTED. THEY USE YOUR DISCUSSION AS A VEHICLE FOR SPAMMING USENET.*
    ************************************************************************


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
    Brendan, Oct 31, 2004
    #8
  9. Chris Mayhew

    Brendan Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:08:38 +1300, Ryan Jacobs wrote:

    > I was (like many others) very disappointed that
    > the reality didn't even come close to the "reputation".


    They USED to be very good. This shit with them now is relatively new. Also
    new is the obvious fact they just do not give a **** either.

    What happened to Seeby Woodhouse ? He turned into a useless price the IHUG
    Woods boys did as soon as the MONEY took over ?

    You never see him in the news groups any more. Probably the wogers and the
    redbaiters are most to blame, but I doubt that's the whole story. I reckon
    he's traded in his integrity for the money.

    --

    .... Brendan

    "This is *not* a football game, Netcom!" -- The Opry House

    Note: All my comments are copyright 1/11/2004 1:39:15 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

    ************************************************************************
    * THE BELOW ADVERT IS NOT MY WORK AND IS APPENDED AGAINST MY WISHES. *
    * NEWSFEEDS.COM'S CLAIM OF 100,000 GROUPS IS BOGUS AS MANY OF THEM *
    * ARE ILLEGITIMATE AND DELETED BY MOST OTHERS. NEWSFEEDS.COM CANNOT *
    *BE TRUSTED. THEY USE YOUR DISCUSSION AS A VEHICLE FOR SPAMMING USENET.*
    ************************************************************************


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
    Brendan, Oct 31, 2004
    #9
  10. > What happened to Seeby Woodhouse ? He turned into a useless price the IHUG
    > Woods boys did as soon as the MONEY took over ?
    >
    > You never see him in the news groups any more. Probably the wogers and the
    > redbaiters are most to blame, but I doubt that's the whole story. I reckon
    > he's traded in his integrity for the money.
    >


    It was probably for a LOT of money.

    So who blames him ? Why bother defending something that people will
    always find something to complain about ?

    Take the money and run, and leave the whingers to themselves.
    -=[Waylon Smithers]=-, Oct 31, 2004
    #10
  11. Chris Mayhew

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:31:28 +1300, Collector»NZ
    <> wrote:

    >Ryan Jacobs said the following on 31/10/2004 23:08:
    >> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net>
    >> provided this moment of wisdom:
    >>
    >> Like many others, I switched to Orcon because of their "reputation" as
    >> an outstanding ISP. I was (like many others) very disappointed that
    >> the reality didn't even come close to the "reputation". I switched
    >> back to Xtra (argh, you know stuff is bad when you have to return to
    >> Xtra), after endless problems with ALL of Orcon's alledged services.
    >>
    >> It's a shame, because we need an alternative that can "walk the walk"
    >> rather than just "talk the talk".
    >>

    >jbyro rab rug leg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bg ens rinu V


    "jbyro rab rug qrveg hbl rinu gho rzvg uphz bbg ens rinu V" is what
    you really mean!

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Oct 31, 2004
    #11
  12. Chris Mayhew

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net> wrote:

    >I sent an email to Orcon support on 3rd October :
    >
    >"Hi
    >
    >1. Do you know that there are many missing articles in News Groups -
    >nz.comp, to name but one ?
    >
    >2. When will this be sorted out ?"
    >

    Missing posts are a fact of life on Usenet, due to the way it works.
    It's a peer-to-peer process and articles do get lost and/or dropped
    along the way. Some news providers are better than others, but if your
    upstream feed is rubbish, you will end up with a worse result. eg if
    Orcon is peering with Xtra then the news quality will depend largely
    on how good Xtra is at passing posts along to Orcon. If you are uisng
    a "leaf" server then you can expect results to be patchy at the very
    least.

    Newsgroups are 'best endevours' only. Don't expect a perfect result.
    Be surprised that anything gets through.

    I have no connection with Xtra or Orcon, by the way.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Oct 31, 2004
    #12
  13. Chris Mayhew

    Craig Shore Guest

    On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:38:09 +1300, Brendan <> wrote:

    >Is there an ISP that is like how Orcon used to be like, when they cared
    >about quality ?


    I've never had a problem with Paradise. The helpdesk has a typical 20 min wait
    since it was taken over by TelstraClear, but the service itself is still good.
    Craig Shore, Oct 31, 2004
    #13
  14. Chris Mayhew

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:25:23 +1300, Craig Shore wrote:

    > On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:38:09 +1300, Brendan <> wrote:
    >
    >>Is there an ISP that is like how Orcon used to be like, when they cared
    >>about quality ?

    >
    > I've never had a problem with Paradise. The helpdesk has a typical 20 min wait
    > since it was taken over by TelstraClear, but the service itself is still good.


    Thanks, might have to check them out.

    --

    .... Brendan

    The sexiest thing about British guys is that you can't imagine them having
    an orgasm.
    - Rev. Magdalen

    Note: All my comments are copyright 1/11/2004 12:56:33 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

    ************************************************************************
    * THE BELOW ADVERT IS NOT MY WORK AND IS APPENDED AGAINST MY WISHES. *
    * NEWSFEEDS.COM'S CLAIM OF 100,000 GROUPS IS BOGUS AS MANY OF THEM *
    * ARE ILLEGITIMATE AND DELETED BY MOST OTHERS. NEWSFEEDS.COM CANNOT *
    *BE TRUSTED. THEY USE YOUR DISCUSSION AS A VEHICLE FOR SPAMMING USENET.*
    ************************************************************************


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
    Brendan, Nov 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Chris Mayhew

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:32:06 +1300, -=[Waylon Smithers]=- wrote:

    > It was probably for a LOT of money.
    >
    > So who blames him ? Why bother defending something that people will
    > always find something to complain about ?


    Complaints are useful feedback. They tell you what the customer wants;
    knowing what they want is a virtual license to print money.

    Take Orcon itself as an example - for a long time everyone was full of
    praise for them and they expanded rapidly and are now the 3rd largest ISP
    in NZ. Millions of dollars flow through their accounts each month.

    And they are trowing it away.

    > Take the money and run, and leave the whingers to themselves.


    Ahh, I see: graduate of the Telecom school of Commerce, are you ?

    That is a stupid philosophy. Carried to it's logical conclusion, you will
    have no customers because the moment someone shows up with a better service
    they will all leave yours.

    --

    .... Brendan

    "When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers." -- Oscar Wilde

    Note: All my comments are copyright 1/11/2004 12:43:03 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

    ************************************************************************
    * THE BELOW ADVERT IS NOT MY WORK AND IS APPENDED AGAINST MY WISHES. *
    * NEWSFEEDS.COM'S CLAIM OF 100,000 GROUPS IS BOGUS AS MANY OF THEM *
    * ARE ILLEGITIMATE AND DELETED BY MOST OTHERS. NEWSFEEDS.COM CANNOT *
    *BE TRUSTED. THEY USE YOUR DISCUSSION AS A VEHICLE FOR SPAMMING USENET.*
    ************************************************************************


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
    Brendan, Nov 1, 2004
    #15
  16. Chris Mayhew

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    Brendan wrote:
    > On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:25:23 +1300, Craig Shore wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 01:38:09 +1300, Brendan <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Is there an ISP that is like how Orcon used to be like, when they cared
    >>>about quality ?

    >>
    >>I've never had a problem with Paradise. The helpdesk has a typical 20 min wait
    >>since it was taken over by TelstraClear, but the service itself is still good.

    >
    >
    > Thanks, might have to check them out.
    >

    Yeah, I use to be with them before moving to Orcon. I found them good,
    only ever contacted them to arrange additional email address. I moved
    to Orcon cause I though they were better.



    --
    Chris Mayhew, Nov 1, 2004
    #16
  17. Chris Mayhew

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I sent an email to Orcon support on 3rd October :
    >>
    >>"Hi
    >>
    >>1. Do you know that there are many missing articles in News Groups -
    >>nz.comp, to name but one ?
    >>
    >>2. When will this be sorted out ?"
    >>

    >
    > Missing posts are a fact of life on Usenet, due to the way it works.
    > It's a peer-to-peer process and articles do get lost and/or dropped
    > along the way. Some news providers are better than others, but if your
    > upstream feed is rubbish, you will end up with a worse result. eg if
    > Orcon is peering with Xtra then the news quality will depend largely
    > on how good Xtra is at passing posts along to Orcon. If you are uisng
    > a "leaf" server then you can expect results to be patchy at the very
    > least.
    >
    > Newsgroups are 'best endevours' only. Don't expect a perfect result.
    > Be surprised that anything gets through.
    >
    > I have no connection with Xtra or Orcon, by the way.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >

    I agree that the results might not be perfect, as you put it, but the
    share numbers of missing posts made a lot of threads unreadable.

    Orcon made a lot of promises about their "new, upgraded" news server
    which didn't pan out (for me at least).

    I have since opened an accout at individual.net.

    My "complaint" in this thread is the "service" I received from Orcon in
    terms of the news groups AND the help desk.


    --
    Chris Mayhew, Nov 1, 2004
    #17
  18. In article <> in nz.comp on Sun, 31 Oct 2004
    22:59:21 +1300, Chris Mayhew <no^^^@no.net> says...
    > I sent an email to Orcon support on 3rd October :
    >
    > "Hi
    >
    > 1. Do you know that there are many missing articles in News Groups -
    > nz.comp, to name but one ?
    >
    > 2. When will this be sorted out ?
    >
    > 3. Why are the adds added to the bottom of posts ?, they were removed.
    >
    > Look forward to your help
    >
    > Regards "
    >
    > I got 2 replies on 15 October, the first one was blank the second said:
    >
    > "Hi,
    >
    > The news group is there as it is one of the nes that i read most mornings.
    >
    > Regards
    > Orcon Support, Technical Support Team"
    >
    > OK, so I waited 12 days to some fool to tell me that the group was there
    > (no shit!) and they read it (yeah right!) so I sent a reply (just the 1
    > copy </sic>):
    >
    > "Hi
    >
    > I know the News Group is there too, but there are many missing posts
    > within the NG, thats what I'm asking you about.
    >
    > Regards"
    >
    > I got a reply on the 28 October which said the following:
    >
    > " "
    >
    > Yep, another blank email, Ha Ha Ha, that was really funny Orcon
    >
    > So, it's been 25 days, I've received 2 blank emails and a bit of rubbish
    > from someone that didn't read my original email anyway.
    >
    > This ISP is SOOOO bad at some things, I think I'll stick around just to
    > be a prick. Of course they might improve HA HA HA, "what an utter
    > joke.." as Roger would say.
    >
    > Many people speak highly of Orcon - thats why I signed up (and have
    > recommended them to other people), but what an utter disappointment (ha
    > ha, you though I was going to say "joke" didn't you). I'd be happy for
    > Orcon to prove me wrong but, as I don't think I'd look good blue, I
    > won't hold my breath.


    Most people it seems signed up for Orcon because they offered cheap deals
    on ADSL access.

    Then it turns out that their service cannot keep up.

    This is what we've seen happen with other small ISPs. They offer cheap
    deals to compete with the big ISPs, but don't have the resources to
    adequately service the influx of customers.

    People complain about having to deal with a call centre when they call
    Paradise or Xtra. This however is the cost effective way to deal with
    large volumes of customer enquiries without tying up technicians who have
    the job of looking after the technical stuff.

    I used to belong to a small local ISP that provided pretty good
    personalised service directly to their customers. They could only do this
    because they were small. Once an ISP or any organisation gets bigger, you
    can't physically fit all the technicians and phones and computers in one
    room any more.

    I would say with the influx of customers Orcon has just discovered the
    differences between a big ISP and a small one.
    Patrick Dunford, Nov 1, 2004
    #18
  19. In article <> in nz.comp on Mon, 1 Nov
    2004 02:07:36 +1300, Brendan <> says...
    > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:08:38 +1300, Ryan Jacobs wrote:
    >
    > > I was (like many others) very disappointed that
    > > the reality didn't even come close to the "reputation".

    >
    > They USED to be very good. This shit with them now is relatively new. Also
    > new is the obvious fact they just do not give a **** either.
    >
    > What happened to Seeby Woodhouse ? He turned into a useless price the IHUG
    > Woods boys did as soon as the MONEY took over ?
    >
    > You never see him in the news groups any more. Probably the wogers and the
    > redbaiters are most to blame, but I doubt that's the whole story. I reckon
    > he's traded in his integrity for the money.


    It is called "running a business".

    People run businesses to make money. I see for example you have a website
    advertising your services as a computer consultant. If you're charging
    people to do it then you are out to make an income, like most people are.

    Orcon went out to build their business by offering deals that people
    liked. The business grew bigger and they have recently discovered that
    the technical staff are too busy installing bigger servers and the like
    to answer technical queries any more.

    They'll have to set up a call centre pretty soon to run the helpdesk for
    them.

    Of course, you could always set up your own ISP. Then you'll understand
    the same issues. If you want to keep it small and friendly, you'll have
    to turn away customers.

    You complain about Ihug. Obviously they decided that they wanted to grow
    their small business into a big one.
    Patrick Dunford, Nov 1, 2004
    #19
  20. In article <vm53ut9pqs4o$> in nz.comp on Mon, 1 Nov
    2004 01:38:09 +1300, Brendan <> says...

    > Is there an ISP that is like how Orcon used to be like, when they cared
    > about quality ?


    The only way you can keep a small ISP that everyone likes is to turn away
    customers or charge higher fees.
    Patrick Dunford, Nov 1, 2004
    #20
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