Optional censorship in DVDs...

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Opticreep, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Opticreep

    Opticreep Guest

    I think one aspect of DVD technology that has been greatly overlooked
    is the potential for VOLUNTARY censorship.

    We've all seen DVD title that give you the option to seemlessly splice
    in "extra scenes" into the movie. What I'd like is for the movie to
    have the *OPTION* to seemlessly replace R-rated scenes and languages
    with alternate takes.

    It's not like the film studios don't already do this sort of thing.
    Watching "Silence of the Lambs" on tv the other day, I noticed that
    the director actually filmed alternate takes and dialogue to tone down
    a few scenes. For example, in the prison Miggs growls "I can smell
    you!" to Starling, instead of "I can smell your ****!". And in the
    scene where Miggs throws semen at Starling's face, the PG version
    shows an alternate camera angle that makes the event seem a little
    less gross.

    I'm not really a fanatic when it comes to censorship. When I'm
    watching a movie alone, or with people in my age group, I enjoy the
    occasional bloodbath, the colorful obscenities, and the assortment
    naked x-rated action.

    But it DOES feel very, very awkward when you're watching an
    Oscar-nominated movie with your mother (or daughter, or your
    adolescent son, or your dog) and all of you suddenly find yourselves
    unexpectedly staring at a big lesbo x-rated scene playing out in your
    40-inch TV. Then you have to sit through that awkward moment trying
    to figure out whether or not they want you to fast forward through the
    scene. It's really hard to judge the content of movies these days,
    because even Oscar-caliber films (Mulholland Drive, Requiem for a
    Dream) and seemingly childish movies (The Animal) have scenes that'll
    make you squirm if you're with the wrong viewing crowd.

    It'd be nice if I could set up a movie beforehand so that it will play
    normally, or play in PG-13 mode. The technology is there. And the
    potential for a marketing gimmick is there as well --- your average
    American Walmart-shopping household would probably find this sort of
    DVD more practical than, say, a "superbit" or "director's cut"
    version. And families wouldn't be so hestitant with buying an R-rated
    movie if there was an option to voluntarily tone down its adult
    content.
     
    Opticreep, Apr 12, 2004
    #1
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  2. Opticreep

    Stan Brown Guest

    "Opticreep" <> wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >We've all seen DVD title that give you the option to seamlessly splice
    >in "extra scenes" into the movie. What I'd like is for the movie to
    >have the *OPTION* to seamlessly replace R-rated scenes and languages
    >with alternate takes.

    [spelling corrected free]

    Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    splicing? I've got quite a few DVDs with "deleted scenes" under
    special features, and not one of them gives me the option to watch
    the movie with the deleted scenes in their original places. I would
    find that a really nice feature.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
     
    Stan Brown, Apr 12, 2004
    #2
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  3. Opticreep

    Bill Guest


    >
    > Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    > splicing? I've got quite a few DVDs with "deleted scenes" under
    > special features, and not one of them gives me the option to watch
    > the movie with the deleted scenes in their original places. I would
    > find that a really nice feature.


    It should be possible. Many Disney DVDs include multiple language versions
    of the opening/closing titles, as does "Attack of the Clones." Depending
    upon which language you select, the approriate titles are seamlessly
    inserted, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for a deleted scene.
     
    Bill, Apr 12, 2004
    #3
  4. On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:17:21 GMT, "Bill" <> wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    >> splicing? I've got quite a few DVDs with "deleted scenes" under
    >> special features, and not one of them gives me the option to watch
    >> the movie with the deleted scenes in their original places. I would
    >> find that a really nice feature.

    >
    >It should be possible. Many Disney DVDs include multiple language versions
    >of the opening/closing titles, as does "Attack of the Clones." Depending
    >upon which language you select, the approriate titles are seamlessly
    >inserted, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for a deleted scene.
    >

    The Rocky Horror Picture Show makes good use of this feature, you can
    use it to substitute an alternate black and white opening for the
    original one, and you can choose between US and UK versions, the
    latter seamlessly adds an extra song.

    Mischa
     
    Mischa van Dinter, Apr 12, 2004
    #4
  5. Opticreep

    Mike Kohary Guest

    "Stan Brown" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    > splicing?


    The Abyss and Terminator 2 releases use this feature perfectly for different
    versions of the movies. You're right that it's a sorely underused feature.

    Mike
     
    Mike Kohary, Apr 12, 2004
    #5
  6. Opticreep

    Mark W Guest

    "Mike Kohary" <> wrote in message
    news:c5els7$bq9$...
    > "Stan Brown" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    > > splicing?

    >
    > The Abyss and Terminator 2 releases use this feature perfectly for

    different
    > versions of the movies. You're right that it's a sorely underused

    feature.
    >
    > Mike
    >
    >



    BUT depending on how good your DVD player is at seamless splicing /
    branching, you might hear a sudden whirring sound from the player and see a
    pause or visible jerk in the movie.
     
    Mark W, Apr 12, 2004
    #6
  7. Opticreep

    Mike Kohary Guest

    "Mark W" <s@o> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Mike Kohary" <> wrote in message
    > news:c5els7$bq9$...
    > > "Stan Brown" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > >
    > > > Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    > > > splicing?

    > >
    > > The Abyss and Terminator 2 releases use this feature perfectly for

    > different
    > > versions of the movies. You're right that it's a sorely underused

    > feature.
    >
    > BUT depending on how good your DVD player is at seamless splicing /
    > branching, you might hear a sudden whirring sound from the player and see

    a
    > pause or visible jerk in the movie.


    That's unfortunate. This could be a very useful feature in many cases, and
    it's too bad more DVDs don't use it and that apparently some manufacturers
    aren't up to speed in seeing that its use would work well on their products.

    Mike
     
    Mike Kohary, Apr 12, 2004
    #7
  8. Opticreep

    Larry Guest

    In article <>,
    says...

    >
    > I'm not really a fanatic when it comes to censorship. When I'm
    > watching a movie alone, or with people in my age group, I enjoy the
    > occasional bloodbath, the colorful obscenities, and the assortment
    > naked x-rated action.
    >
    > But it DOES feel very, very awkward when you're watching an
    > Oscar-nominated movie with your mother (or daughter, or your
    > adolescent son, or your dog) and all of you suddenly find yourselves
    > unexpectedly staring at a big lesbo x-rated scene playing out in your
    > 40-inch TV. Then you have to sit through that awkward moment trying
    > to figure out whether or not they want you to fast forward through the
    > scene. It's really hard to judge the content of movies these days,
    > because even Oscar-caliber films (Mulholland Drive, Requiem for a
    > Dream) and seemingly childish movies (The Animal) have scenes that'll
    > make you squirm if you're with the wrong viewing crowd.
    >
    > It'd be nice if I could set up a movie beforehand so that it will play
    > normally, or play in PG-13 mode. The technology is there. And the
    > potential for a marketing gimmick is there as well --- your average
    > American Walmart-shopping household would probably find this sort of
    > DVD more practical than, say, a "superbit" or "director's cut"
    > version. And families wouldn't be so hestitant with buying an R-rated
    > movie if there was an option to voluntarily tone down its adult
    > content.
    >



    The term is "seamless branching"

    I have only seen it work well on ONE dvd. The original release of "The
    Abyys".

    Even that one doesnt work well on some older players. (it might tend to
    "hang")

    It was used to insert scenes that were deleted to shorten the movie after its
    initial release and add some scenes that were not in even the premiere
    version of the movie.

    On a good player, it works quite well, and could probably be used to make a
    "choose your rating" version of a movie.

    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Apr 13, 2004
    #8
  9. Opticreep

    Stan Brown Guest

    "Mark W" <s@o> wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >BUT depending on how good your DVD player is at seamless splicing /
    >branching, you might hear a sudden whirring sound from the player and see a
    >pause or visible jerk in the movie.


    I wouldn't much mind that. I notice layer transitions but by the
    time I've reacted to them mentally the movie is playing already.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    DVD FAQ: http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
    other FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
     
    Stan Brown, Apr 13, 2004
    #9
  10. Opticreep

    Biz Guest

    "Opticreep" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I think one aspect of DVD technology that has been greatly overlooked
    > is the potential for VOLUNTARY censorship.


    Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but if censorship is required for viewing than
    it problably is not an approproate movie for that person to be viewing in
    the first place. It won't kill you or your child to watch the movie at a
    more age appropriate time.
     
    Biz, Apr 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Opticreep

    Trevor S Guest

    (Opticreep) wrote in news:9e1f277e.0404120355.25998dc0
    @posting.google.com:

    <snip>

    >
    > But it DOES feel very, very awkward when you're watching an
    > Oscar-nominated movie with your mother (or daughter, or your
    > adolescent son, or your dog) and all of you suddenly find yourselves
    > unexpectedly staring at a big lesbo x-rated scene playing out in your
    > 40-inch TV. Then you have to sit through that awkward moment trying
    > to figure out whether or not they want you to fast forward through the
    > scene.


    I think you have identified the problem here. Why woudl you be arkward with
    this ?

    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
     
    Trevor S, Apr 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Opticreep

    GMAN Guest

    In article <>, Stan Brown <> wrote:
    >"Opticreep" <> wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >>We've all seen DVD title that give you the option to seamlessly splice
    >>in "extra scenes" into the movie. What I'd like is for the movie to
    >>have the *OPTION* to seamlessly replace R-rated scenes and languages
    >>with alternate takes.

    >[spelling corrected free]
    >
    >Out of curiosity, _Where_ have we seen that option for seamless
    >splicing? I've got quite a few DVDs with "deleted scenes" under
    >special features, and not one of them gives me the option to watch
    >the movie with the deleted scenes in their original places. I would
    >find that a really nice feature.
    >


    The Abyss?
    Terminator 2?
     
    GMAN, Apr 13, 2004
    #12
  13. Opticreep

    Opticreep Guest

    Trevor S <> wrote in message news:<Xns94CA98B39C49Ebillgatescom@130.133.1.4>...
    >
    > > 40-inch TV. Then you have to sit through that awkward moment trying
    > > to figure out whether or not they want you to fast forward through the
    > > scene.

    >
    > I think you have identified the problem here. Why woudl you be arkward with
    > this ?



    Well, generally speaking, I don't comfortable watching X-Rated stuff
    on television with my parents or with kids. I dunno... maybe that's
    just me. Or maybe it's just me and 99.99% of the population not named
    "Trevor S".

    But then if I fast forward through these scenes, it ruins the flow of
    the movie. And although some of my fellow viewers would be relieved
    that they didn't have to sit through THAT embarassing scene with me
    (awkwardness goes both ways), a few of them might be miffed that I'm
    "babying" them. Especially teenagers.
     
    Opticreep, Apr 13, 2004
    #13
  14. Opticreep

    Opticreep Guest

    "Biz" <> wrote in message news:<YrJec.24290$>...
    >
    > Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but if censorship is required for viewing than
    > it problably is not an approproate movie for that person to be viewing in
    > the first place. It won't kill you or your child to watch the movie at a
    > more age appropriate time.
    >



    That may have been true in the olden days, but not anymore. These
    days, even mainstream films have explicit scenes with full-frontal
    nudity. This is true for Oscar-caliber films as well. It's not like
    you can predict these scenes from reading the DVD case (Mulholland
    Drive, American History X, for example). These are the types of
    movies you would've thought "tame enough" to watch with parents or
    with older teenage kids.
     
    Opticreep, Apr 13, 2004
    #14
  15. Opticreep

    Trevor S Guest

    (Opticreep) wrote in
    news::

    <snip>

    > Well, generally speaking, I don't comfortable watching X-Rated stuff
    > on television with my parents or with kids.


    Then don't ? Why would you watch X-Rated stuff with kids (the rating is a
    guide for exactly that reason), let alone your parents.

    You seemed to be talking about "Oscar" nominated movies with with a bit of
    tits and ass or something that confronts yours (or their) sexuality eg Boys
    Don't Cry not a porn flick.

    --
    Trevor S


    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    -Albert Einstein
     
    Trevor S, Apr 13, 2004
    #15
  16. Opticreep

    Mark Spatny Guest

    Opticreep, says...
    > It's not like
    > you can predict these scenes from reading the DVD case (Mulholland
    > Drive, American History X, for example).


    I don't know how you can watch a movie like American History X and be
    surprised by the content when you watch it with your kids. It was rated
    R for graphic brutal violence including rape, pervasive language, strong
    sexuality and nudity. It says rated R right on the box. Also, if you
    read any reviews of the movie, or even were mildly attentive the the
    entertainment-related media when the movie came out in theaters, you
    should have been aware of some possibly objectionable themes and
    content.

    Here's an idea, if you don't want to watch content that makes you
    uncomfortable with your kids, how about not watching R rated movies with
    them? That's what the rating is for. If you want to watch movies with
    your family, try G and PG rated movies. The rating is right there on the
    DVD cover. Seamless branching removing the objectionable content would
    ruin the whole point of a movie like American History X. Hollywood
    provides you with a rating system, why should they go beyond that to
    dumb down the movies for family viewing?

    If you want to find out more about movies and their content, you can
    check out the ratings and reviews at www.imdb.com.
     
    Mark Spatny, Apr 14, 2004
    #16
  17. >here_ have we seen that option for seamless
    >splicing?


    The dvd set of "You Bet Your Life" sttarring Groucho Marx has the ability to
    watch the episodes normally or to watch the episodes with the outtakes
    seamlessly spliced into the episode. along with the option to view the
    outtakes separately.

    And I think a few of the other dvd's I have also have that option to view
    certain deleted material seamlessly within the program/movie or view the
    program movie without it.

    "You Bet Your Life" dvd defimitely has that option on it.
     
    Waterperson77, Apr 17, 2004
    #17
  18. >Depending
    >upon which language you select, the approriate titles are seamlessly
    >inserted, so I don't see why the same couldn't be done for a deleted scene.


    It can. My dvd of :"You Bet Your L:ife" starring Groucho Marx has that option.

    It's just that the producers of most of the dvd's don't use that option.
     
    Waterperson77, Apr 17, 2004
    #18
  19. >
    >That's unfortunate. This could be a very useful feature in many cases, and
    >it's too


    and another underused feature is the promised choiuce of "pan and scan" when
    your dvd pltyer is set to pan and scan while allowing other people to view it
    in widescreen.

    While this setting isn't good for all movies, it should have at least been
    used on 1.85 open matte movies, thereby reducing the number of complaints by
    people who prefer pan and scan to fill their 4:3 tv sets.

    and should have also been used on widescreen tv shows that were filmed in
    widescreen but shown in both widescreen and 4:3 upon original airing (digital
    hdtv amd analog ntsc) where the 4:3 version is just a center extraction
    anyways.
     
    Waterperson77, Apr 17, 2004
    #19
  20. Opticreep

    Richard C. Guest

    "Waterperson77" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : >
    : >That's unfortunate. This could be a very useful feature in many
    cases, and
    : >it's too
    :
    : and another underused feature is the promised choiuce of "pan and
    scan" when
    : your dvd pltyer is set to pan and scan while allowing other people to
    view it
    : in widescreen.
    :
    : While this setting isn't good for all movies, it should have at least
    been
    : used on 1.85 open matte movies, thereby reducing the number of
    complaints by
    : people who prefer pan and scan to fill their 4:3 tv sets.

    ======================
    And who wants to see a further cropped version of a matted movie?

    Do you understand how the feature works?
    ========================
    :
    : and should have also been used on widescreen tv shows that were filmed
    in
    : widescreen but shown in both widescreen and 4:3 upon original airing
    (digital
    : hdtv amd analog ntsc) where the 4:3 version is just a center
    extraction
    : anyways.
    :
    ===========================
    Maybe........

    But not until they release CSI season one in proper 16:9 format.
     
    Richard C., Apr 23, 2004
    #20
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