Online printers and Adobe RGB

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steve James, Dec 30, 2003.

  1. Steve James

    Steve James Guest

    Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    "process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    colorspace?

    Most services seem to ignore any embedded color space info and print in
    sRGB. They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.

    --
    To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net
     
    Steve James, Dec 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. Steve James

    Brad Guest

    In article <1g6sho2.173aku8qvj478N%>, said...
    > Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    > "process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    > colorspace?
    >
    > Most services seem to ignore any embedded color space info and print in
    > sRGB. They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    > adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.


    Aren't all of those adjustments pointless if your monitor is not
    calibrated to their printer?
     
    Brad, Dec 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. Steve James

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: (Steve James)

    >Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    >"process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    >colorspace?


    You may need to move up a step in class to more expensive prints from companies
    printing fine-art on LightJet 5000's or Epson 9600's, like Calypso or West
    Coast Imaging if you insist on using AdobeRGB.

    >Most services seem to ignore any embedded color space info and print in
    >sRGB.


    That's the way their printers are set up. You can still make all your edits in
    AdobeRGB and save that as a master file, then when you want to send an sRGB
    copy to an on-line printer just do Image > Mode > Convert to Profile. That way
    the colors don't get clipped, they just get compressed into the smaller space.
    This works pretty well.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Dec 30, 2003
    #3
  4. Steve James

    Flycaster Guest

    "Steve James" <> wrote in message
    news:1g6sho2.173aku8qvj478N%...
    > Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    > "process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    > colorspace?



    Great question. Every one I've seen or heard of either uses Fujis or
    Noritsu photo printers - both of which use sRGB at their OS level. Send
    them a file tagged with anything else and it is disregarded, resulting in
    "flat" images when color spaces larger than sRGB are sent to either printer.
    (It's really too bad, since the native gamut of both devices is far larger
    than sRGB.) Regardless, you'll have to convert a copy to sRGB (and accept
    the gamut contraction) to avoid this problem.

    But, hey, if you find one please let us know!

    >[snip] They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    > adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.


    Now *that* you can control. Simply tell them to turn off all "auto
    adjustments." According to my guy at Costco, this is very easy.




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    Flycaster, Dec 31, 2003
    #4
  5. Steve James

    Brad Guest

    In article <3ff24182$>, said...
    > "Steve James" <> wrote in message
    > news:1g6sho2.173aku8qvj478N%...
    >
    > >[snip] They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    > > adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.

    >
    > Now *that* you can control. Simply tell them to turn off all "auto
    > adjustments." According to my guy at Costco, this is very easy.


    Not easy for most online printers. Those beasts blast out a ton of orders
    in one mode and since most of the orders belong to amateur point-and-
    shoots they treat them all that way.
     
    Brad, Dec 31, 2003
    #5
  6. Steve James

    zbzbzb Guest

    >>
    >> Now *that* you can control. Simply tell them to turn off all "auto
    >> adjustments." According to my guy at Costco, this is very easy.

    >
    >Not easy for most online printers. Those beasts blast out a ton of orders
    >in one mode and since most of the orders belong to amateur point-and-
    >shoots they treat them all that way.
    >


    My local Costco doesn't adjust my digital images in any way. I get consistently
    identical results to what I see on my montior.
     
    zbzbzb, Dec 31, 2003
    #6
  7. Steve James

    c0smic Guest

    Steve James wrote:
    > Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    > "process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    > colorspace?
    >
    > Most services seem to ignore any embedded color space info and print in
    > sRGB. They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    > adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.
    >

    You can get photos printed in Adobe RGB at
    http://printroom.com . I have received excellent prints from Printroom.
    You can read about their color management here:
    http://www.printroom.com/iccprofile.asp
     
    c0smic, Dec 31, 2003
    #7
  8. Steve James

    PQ Guest

    On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:00:40 -0500, (Steve James)
    wrote:

    >Can someone point me to an online printing service that will not
    >"process" my files before printing, and can print in Adobe RGB
    >colorspace?
    >
    >Most services seem to ignore any embedded color space info and print in
    >sRGB. They also do things like sharpening, contrast and saturation
    >adjustments that I prefer to do myself in Photoshop.


    I suspect that the online printing service you're using simply ignores
    embedded profiles, since that's the way Frontier & Noritsu printers
    work.

    Instead, your images should be converted to the proper profile for the
    printing machine they are known to be using, and you specify in big
    letters "NO ADJUSTMENTS" when you turn the images in for processing.
     
    PQ, Dec 31, 2003
    #8
  9. Steve James

    Brad Guest

    In article <>, torrex6
    @cs.comzbzbzb said...
    > >>
    > >> Now *that* you can control. Simply tell them to turn off all "auto
    > >> adjustments." According to my guy at Costco, this is very easy.

    > >
    > >Not easy for most online printers. Those beasts blast out a ton of orders
    > >in one mode and since most of the orders belong to amateur point-and-
    > >shoots they treat them all that way.
    > >

    >
    > My local Costco doesn't adjust my digital images in any way. I get consistently
    > identical results to what I see on my montior.


    The subject says "online printers."
     
    Brad, Dec 31, 2003
    #9
  10. Steve James

    Flycaster Guest

    "Brad" <> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1a5c0d8fa4562e3798babe@news...
    > Not easy for most online printers. Those beasts blast out a ton of orders
    > in one mode and since most of the orders belong to amateur point-and-
    > shoots they treat them all that way.


    Sure it is, they just don't want to. Trust me, if Costco can do it, so can
    they. And if they won't, screw 'em, find another printer. Easy.




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    -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
     
    Flycaster, Dec 31, 2003
    #10
  11. Steve James

    Brad Guest

    In article <3ff2f4c6$>, said...
    > "Brad" <> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.1a5c0d8fa4562e3798babe@news...
    > > Not easy for most online printers. Those beasts blast out a ton of orders
    > > in one mode and since most of the orders belong to amateur point-and-
    > > shoots they treat them all that way.

    >
    > Sure it is, they just don't want to. Trust me, if Costco can do it, so can
    > they. And if they won't, screw 'em, find another printer. Easy.


    Costco has a pimply-faced geek processing each order by hand and is
    offering it as a loss-leader. The online places print huge batches
    automatically. That's why most of them don't offer it as an option -
    their job management software won't handle it for them, so then they have
    to run color corrected and non-color correct batches. When you add that
    to matte and glossy combined with the various paper sizes (most sites use
    4", 5" and 10" at least) it's just too many jobs to run.
     
    Brad, Dec 31, 2003
    #11
  12. Steve James

    Steve James Guest

    Brad <> wrote:

    > Aren't all of those adjustments pointless if your monitor is not
    > calibrated to their printer?


    My monitor is hardware calibrated, so provided a printer is set up to
    interpret imbedded ICC profiles, there should be good match between the
    screen and the print. The exception is if the printer color gamut is
    smaller than the color gamut of the display device. The best way to
    allow for that is to have an ICC profile of the printer for soft
    proofing on screen.

    The sRGB color space used by most online printers is a least common
    demoninator approach for people who don't use color management in their
    workflow. It is the "default" color space of most monitors and digital
    cameras even though most modern displays and printers are capable of
    displaying and printing a much larger color gamut than sRGB. Thus the
    increasing appearance of the option of using Adobe RGB (a wider color
    gamut) in prosumer and pro digital cameras. My question was aimed at
    finding out where photographers who want to use larger standard color
    gamuts (like Adobe RGB), or custom color gamuts (for example a custom
    ICC profile of a digital camera used in a studio setting) are getting
    their work printed.

    --
    To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net
     
    Steve James, Dec 31, 2003
    #12
  13. Steve James

    JC Dill Guest

    On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:39:14 -0500, Brad <> wrote:

    >Costco has a pimply-faced geek processing each order by hand and is
    >offering it as a loss-leader.


    Costco doesn't do anything as a loss leader.

    jc
     
    JC Dill, Jan 1, 2004
    #13
  14. Steve James

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: (Steve James)

    >My question was aimed at
    >finding out where photographers who want to use larger standard color
    >gamuts (like Adobe RGB), or custom color gamuts (for example a custom
    >ICC profile of a digital camera used in a studio setting) are getting
    >their work printed.


    Try Calypso or West Coast Imaging, as I said in an earlier post ... LightJet
    5000 or Epson 9600 prints. Geared for the fine art photographer wanting larger
    prints, not the mass produced 4x6's from jpegs. There are dozens of companies
    similar to these two but I've worked with both of them and recommend them
    highly.

    http://www.westcoastimaging.com/
    http://www.calypsoinc.com/

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jan 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Steve James

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >Try Calypso or West Coast Imaging, as I said in an earlier post

    Steve, since you sound savvy about ICM profiling I should have mentioned that
    you can download the Calypso LightJet 5000 profiles and soft-proof ahead of
    time. If you convert your files to their profile and do the other little stuff
    they ask you get a nice discount.

    Also, you can download the Epson 9600 profiles that Calypso uses from the Epson
    pro site and soft proof from them as well. Bill Atkinson created these
    profiles and he also did the profiling on the Calypso LightJet.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jan 1, 2004
    #15
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