Online photo hosting w/ sales

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Richard H., Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.
    (No luck narrowing the Google search.)

    I'd like to find a reliable site that charges a reasonable printing &
    processing fee. I'm not looking for a premium service (these are sports
    photos, not portraits), just a site that will do a good job of hosting
    and order fulfillment.

    Have you got any favorites? What makes them great?

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard H., Sep 10, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Richard H. wrote:
    > I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    > sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    > sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.
    > (No luck narrowing the Google search.)
    >
    > I'd like to find a reliable site that charges a reasonable printing &
    > processing fee. I'm not looking for a premium service (these are sports
    > photos, not portraits), just a site that will do a good job of hosting
    > and order fulfillment.
    >
    > Have you got any favorites? What makes them great?
    >

    I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing them 19
    months ago.

    Incidentally, I am also on offer from them to get some kinds of
    remuneration for introducing others, and to offer something for anyone
    signing up using my account introduction. So, if you or anyone else here
    for that matter, decide on using them, and wouldn't mind, please contact
    me by email at
    jpmcw[at]mac.com

    just prior to signing up and I'll send you the details of what their
    bonus to you would be. It feels odd to be writing this, but there it is.

    --
    John McWilliams
    John McWilliams, Sep 10, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    John McWilliams wrote:
    > I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    > unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing them 19
    > months ago.
    >
    > Incidentally, I am also on offer from them to get some kinds of
    > remuneration for introducing others, and to offer something for anyone
    > signing up using my account introduction. So, if you or anyone else here
    > for that matter, decide on using them, and wouldn't mind, please contact
    > me by email at
    > jpmcw[at]mac.com
    >
    > just prior to signing up and I'll send you the details of what their
    > bonus to you would be. It feels odd to be writing this, but there it is.


    Hi, John.

    Thanks a bunch for the reference. I've seen the customer side of
    printroom, and I'm glad to hear the experience has been positive.

    Yes, it makes sense for you to benefit from the referral. I've sent you
    a note offline for details.

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard H., Sep 11, 2006
    #3
  4. Richard H.

    Unspam Guest


    > Richard H. wrote:
    >> I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    >> sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    >> sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.
    >> (No luck narrowing the Google search.)
    >>
    >> I'd like to find a reliable site that charges a reasonable printing &
    >> processing fee. I'm not looking for a premium service (these are sports
    >> photos, not portraits), just a site that will do a good job of hosting
    >> and order fulfillment.
    >>
    >> Have you got any favorites? What makes them great?
    >>

    > I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    > unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing them 19
    > months ago.
    >
    > Incidentally, I am also on offer from them to get some kinds of
    > remuneration for introducing others, and to offer something for anyone
    > signing up using my account introduction. So, if you or anyone else here
    > for that matter, decide on using them, and wouldn't mind, please contact
    > me by email at
    > jpmcw[at]mac.com
    >
    > just prior to signing up and I'll send you the details of what their
    > bonus to you would be. It feels odd to be writing this, but there it is.



    I see they take a hefty 16% of your hard earned too.
    Unspam, Sep 11, 2006
    #4
  5. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    Unspam wrote:
    >>I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    >>unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing them 19
    >>months ago.

    >
    > I see they take a hefty 16% of your hard earned too.



    Given the turnkey service, I can swallow the transaction fees (plus
    per-print cost and annual membership). Their per-print fees are high,
    but seem on-par with services like mpix.

    What I'm choking on is printroom's one-time storage fee of $100/GB -
    that works out to ~$0.50 per image, which adds up fast. For the other
    fees they charge, I'd expect storage to cost more like $1-2/GB.

    It seems a bit unreasonable to charge fairly high prices per print, and
    an annual fee, and a transaction fee, and a premium storage fee. But,
    perhaps current supply & demand allows for it.


    Who's out there besides Printroom? (What search words will narrow the
    results to just these guys?) There's a flood of photo hosting and/or
    printing shops, but without pro sales & fulfillment.
    Richard H., Sep 11, 2006
    #5
  6. Richard H.

    Alan Browne Guest

    Kodak had such a service including order fulfillment and payment
    collection. Not sure if the service is still offered.


    Richard H. wrote:
    > I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    > sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    > sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.
    > (No luck narrowing the Google search.)
    >
    > I'd like to find a reliable site that charges a reasonable printing &
    > processing fee. I'm not looking for a premium service (these are sports
    > photos, not portraits), just a site that will do a good job of hosting
    > and order fulfillment.
    >
    > Have you got any favorites? What makes them great?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Richard



    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
    Alan Browne, Sep 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Richard H.

    Frank ess Guest

    Richard H. wrote:
    > Unspam wrote:
    >>> I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    >>> unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing
    >>> them 19 months ago.

    >>
    >> I see they take a hefty 16% of your hard earned too.

    >
    >
    > Given the turnkey service, I can swallow the transaction fees (plus
    > per-print cost and annual membership). Their per-print fees are
    > high,
    > but seem on-par with services like mpix.
    >
    > What I'm choking on is printroom's one-time storage fee of $100/GB -
    > that works out to ~$0.50 per image, which adds up fast. For the
    > other
    > fees they charge, I'd expect storage to cost more like $1-2/GB.
    >
    > It seems a bit unreasonable to charge fairly high prices per print,
    > and an annual fee, and a transaction fee, and a premium storage fee.
    > But, perhaps current supply & demand allows for it.
    >
    >
    > Who's out there besides Printroom? (What search words will narrow
    > the
    > results to just these guys?) There's a flood of photo hosting
    > and/or
    > printing shops, but without pro sales & fulfillment.


    I haven't tried it, but FotoTime has a sell-for-you service. You set
    the price, they collect it, subtract the usual printing and postage
    costs, and send you the remainder in $25.00 increments, I think I
    remember.

    FotoTime is like $2.00 per month for each 10GB, payable yearly in
    advance, 30-day free trial.

    I have seven thousand images there, have experience essentially no
    downtime, and the technical service is rapid and competent.

    http://www.fototime.com/inv/7FB3CB20960048D

    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Sep 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Richard H.

    Frank ess Guest

    Frank ess wrote:
    > Richard H. wrote:
    >> Unspam wrote:
    >>>> I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    >>>> unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing
    >>>> them 19 months ago.
    >>>
    >>> I see they take a hefty 16% of your hard earned too.

    >>
    >>
    >> Given the turnkey service, I can swallow the transaction fees (plus
    >> per-print cost and annual membership). Their per-print fees are
    >> high,
    >> but seem on-par with services like mpix.
    >>
    >> What I'm choking on is printroom's one-time storage fee of
    >> $100/GB -
    >> that works out to ~$0.50 per image, which adds up fast. For the
    >> other
    >> fees they charge, I'd expect storage to cost more like $1-2/GB.
    >>
    >> It seems a bit unreasonable to charge fairly high prices per print,
    >> and an annual fee, and a transaction fee, and a premium storage
    >> fee.
    >> But, perhaps current supply & demand allows for it.
    >>
    >>
    >> Who's out there besides Printroom? (What search words will narrow
    >> the
    >> results to just these guys?) There's a flood of photo hosting
    >> and/or
    >> printing shops, but without pro sales & fulfillment.

    >
    > I haven't tried it, but FotoTime has a sell-for-you service. You set
    > the price, they collect it, subtract the usual printing and postage
    > costs, and send you the remainder in $25.00 increments, I think I
    > remember.
    >
    > FotoTime is like $2.00 per month for each 10GB, payable yearly in
    > advance, 30-day free trial.
    >
    > I have seven thousand images there, have experience essentially no
    > downtime, and the technical service is rapid and competent.
    >
    > http://www.fototime.com/inv/7FB3CB20960048D


    Sorry, it's 1 (one) Gig per $2.00 monthly.
    Here's the answer page for "Can I sell my photos through FotoTime?":
    http://www.fototime.com/pages/ftsellerhowto

    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Sep 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Richard H. wrote:
    > Unspam wrote:
    >>> I prefer Printroom.com. Good products, good service, generally
    >>> unbeatable, at least since I last shopped around before choosing them 19
    >>> months ago.

    >>
    >> I see they take a hefty 16% of your hard earned too.

    >
    >
    > Given the turnkey service, I can swallow the transaction fees (plus
    > per-print cost and annual membership). Their per-print fees are high,
    > but seem on-par with services like mpix.
    >
    > What I'm choking on is printroom's one-time storage fee of $100/GB -
    > that works out to ~$0.50 per image, which adds up fast. For the other
    > fees they charge, I'd expect storage to cost more like $1-2/GB.
    >
    > It seems a bit unreasonable to charge fairly high prices per print, and
    > an annual fee, and a transaction fee, and a premium storage fee. But,
    > perhaps current supply & demand allows for it.
    >
    >
    > Who's out there besides Printroom? (What search words will narrow the
    > results to just these guys?) There's a flood of photo hosting and/or
    > printing shops, but without pro sales & fulfillment.


    There's Shutterfly which has a Pro section.

    But as to storage fees, I have about 13 Gigs of photos in my folder on
    my desktop, which are linked to the thumbnails stored at Printroom; it's
    the thumbnails' size which are counted against their storage, and so I
    haven't incurred any storage fees, and some of my thumbnails are
    customized, and at max. size.

    --
    John McWilliams
    John McWilliams, Sep 11, 2006
    #9
  10. Richard H.

    JC Dill Guest

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:37:48 -0700, "Richard H." <> wrote:

    >I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    >sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    >sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.


    I have experience with 3 sites: Smugmug, ExposureManager, and
    Printroom.

    I started with Smugmug. I love many things about Smugmug. The look
    and feel is great, it's easy to use (for the features they offer, more
    on that later), they do some neat things like automatically determine
    if the visitor would probably prefer a larger page of thumbnails
    (large browser size, fast network connection) and give them a page
    with more thumbnails per page, etc. Smugmug is a family operation
    with a real commitment to customer service but they aren't "family" in
    a way that is unprofessional. Quite the contrary, they have extensive
    internet business experience (Chris MacAskill was a founder and the
    CEO of Fatbrain.com) and they are putting that experience together
    with their experience and passion for photography. See:

    <http://www.smugmug.com/aboutus/aboutus.mg>

    Smugmug offers unlimited space for uploading your photos. No, really,
    it IS unlimited.

    <http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,9710>

    Smugmug uses EZPrints for print order fulfillment. During the time I
    was using Smugmug I was happy with EZPrints (more on this later).

    Smugmug is really really good at what they do, but ultimately they
    didn't offer some specific features and services I need due to my
    specific type of photography (event photography). I need to be able
    to upload proofs and then later upload print ready images only when an
    item has been ordered. When I used Smugmug for my event photo sales I
    spent days and days making every image "print ready" before I uploaded
    my galleries, which wasted a lot of time since no one buys all the
    photos offered. I still have a Smugmug account:

    <http://equinephotoart.smugmug.com/>

    but I downgraded my account from the "pro sales" level to the "power
    user" level, and I no longer do professional sales from that site. If
    you find that Smugmug meets your needs and wanted to give me referral
    credit when you sign-up, you can email me for my referral code. Also,
    the folks at Smugmug were very nice when one of my friends signed up
    and then told me about it, Smugmug gave me the referral credit after
    the fact. I had enough referrals from talking about Smugmug to my
    friends and associates in the first year that the referral credits
    paid for my second year's hosting.

    When I realized that the Smugmug workflow wasn't working for my event
    sales, I went looking for a site that better met my needs. This is
    when I discovered Printroom. My experience with pre-sales questions
    and answers (or more correctly snippy incomplete answers and then
    email that was not replied to at all) resulted in my deciding to never
    do business with Printroom. Others have had better luck, but for me
    their lack of customer service was enough for me to decide to take my
    money and business elsewhere.

    That led me to ExposureManager. I *really* like EM for event
    photography. See my horse show gallery page for examples:

    <http://equinephotoart.exposuremanager.com/g/shows>

    EM is perfect for my event photo sales because I can upload proofs and
    then process and upload print-ready images after I get print orders
    for specific images. I have been 150% happy with their excellent
    customer service as well. I find the fees I pay are quite low
    considering how much of the "work" of my business is now automated by
    using their services. I don't have to manually create photo
    galleries, I don't have to take/process payments, I don't have to
    print and mail photos. After I have finished taking the photos all I
    have to do are 3 things that I can't (easily) outsource: Upload
    proofs, prepare and upload print-ready files when an order has been
    received, and deposit the check they send me each month. The only
    thing they could do to make my life easier would be to offer
    autodeposit on the payment. :)

    EM was using EZPrints when I first signed-up. Over time I became
    unhappy with EZPrints - they lost some orders, they wouldn't stamp
    "Photos, do not bend" on shipments (leading customers to blame me
    rather than the post office if the order arrived folded). etc.
    Recently EM changed to a new lab:

    <http://blog.exposuremanager.com/2006/06/switching_labs.html>

    So far I've been delighted with the prints and the shipping from the
    new lab.

    EM offers 2 levels of accounts, one for Art sales (with 1GB of image
    storage and 5 GB of bandwidth per month) and one for Event sales (with
    unlimited storage and 20 GB of bandwidth per month). If you find that
    EM meets your needs and wanted to give me referral credit when you
    sign-up, please hit my referral URL to let it set a cookie (if you
    don't mind) at some point before signing up:

    <http://www.exposuremanager.com/aff/equinephotoart>

    I hope you find this info useful as you figure out which of the many
    photo hosting sites will best meet your particular needs!

    jc

    --

    "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
    of different horses without having to own that many."
    ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
    JC Dill, Sep 12, 2006
    #10
  11. Richard H.

    RAH Guest

    Smugmug is awesome. smugmug.com

    http://photo.higginsoft.com


    "Richard H." <> wrote in message
    news:MA%Mg.10806$c07.1903@fed1read04...
    > I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    > sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    > sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.
    > (No luck narrowing the Google search.)
    >
    > I'd like to find a reliable site that charges a reasonable printing &
    > processing fee. I'm not looking for a premium service (these are sports
    > photos, not portraits), just a site that will do a good job of hosting and
    > order fulfillment.
    >
    > Have you got any favorites? What makes them great?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Richard
    >
    RAH, Sep 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Richard H.

    Guest

    I agree, I've used smugmug for over two years, and it just keeps
    getting better. Started as a basic user, now I subscribe to the pro
    service. I also have a huge love for photoworks.com, of all the places
    I have ever had prints made, no one has done a better job.
    , Sep 15, 2006
    #12
  13. Richard H.

    Guest

    JC Dill wrote:
    > On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:37:48 -0700, "Richard H." <> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    > >sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    > >sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.

    >
    > I have experience with 3 sites: Smugmug, ExposureManager, and
    > Printroom.
    >


    Thank you for a very good comparison of the three.

    However re proofs, I don't understand the problem with uploading proofs
    to SmugMug and later the edited pic.

    I use SmugMug but don't like the fact that this year they started to
    strip my domain masking. I have several actors portfolios on SmugMug,
    each has its own domain name which I had masked. Now the actors domain
    no longer shows when the SmugMug pix load up. Of course the text I
    posted on SmugMug which each portfolio still shows.
    , Sep 16, 2006
    #13
  14. Richard H.

    Guest

    JC Dill wrote:
    > On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:37:48 -0700, "Richard H." <> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    > >sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    > >sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.

    >
    > I have experience with 3 sites: Smugmug, ExposureManager, and
    > Printroom.
    >


    Thank you for a very good comparison of the three.

    However re proofs, I don't understand the problem with uploading proofs
    to SmugMug and later the edited pic.

    I use SmugMug but don't like the fact that this year they started to
    strip my domain masking. I have several actors portfolios on SmugMug,
    each has its own domain name which I had masked. Now the actors domain
    no longer shows when the SmugMug pix load up. Of course the text I
    posted on SmugMug which each portfolio still shows.
    , Sep 16, 2006
    #14
  15. Richard H.

    JC Dill Guest

    On 16 Sep 2006 09:29:45 -0700, wrote:

    >
    >JC Dill wrote:
    >> On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:37:48 -0700, "Richard H." <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >I'm looking for suggestions / experiences with online photo hosting
    >> >sites - not like pbase, but sites catering to professionals who want to
    >> >sell photos online. I.e., they host & handle fulfillment, you get paid.

    >>
    >> I have experience with 3 sites: Smugmug, ExposureManager, and
    >> Printroom.
    >>

    >Thank you for a very good comparison of the three.
    >
    >However re proofs, I don't understand the problem with uploading proofs
    >to SmugMug and later the edited pic.


    Unless they have made recent changes that I don't know about, Smugmug
    uses the photo you upload to process the print order automagically.
    You don't have any chance to upload an edited pic after the print is
    ordered. The only way to "later upload an edited pic" would be to
    mark the originals as not available for purchase, then edit and upload
    replacements, and then mark the replaced images as available for
    purchase. I don't know about your photo volume and workflow, but that
    wouldn't work for me at all.

    >I use SmugMug but don't like the fact that this year they started to
    >strip my domain masking.


    Have you asked them about this? You might want to post on dgrin and
    see if there's a workaround.

    jc

    --

    "The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
    of different horses without having to own that many."
    ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
    JC Dill, Sep 16, 2006
    #15
  16. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    wrote:
    > However re proofs, I don't understand the problem with uploading proofs
    > to SmugMug and later the edited pic.


    The issue is uploading proofs for preview (reduced images of the
    unedited photos), but fetching the high-res version from the owner when
    a print is ordered. This is honestly an issue I hadn't considered at
    the outset, but it would hugely reduce the effort to prep pics that
    nobody wants, and it reduces the online storage requirement to a small
    fraction.


    > I use SmugMug but don't like the fact that this year they started to
    > strip my domain masking.


    This concerned me, but on another posting here the masking is clearly
    working: http://photo.higginsoft.com/

    Do you subscribe at a basic level, that they would have disabled this on
    you and not his?

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard H., Sep 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    Frank ess wrote:
    > I haven't tried it, but FotoTime has a sell-for-you service.
    >
    > I have seven thousand images there, have experience essentially no
    > downtime, and the technical service is rapid and competent.


    Hi, Frank.

    Thanks for the info. I've finally got the time to compare these
    recommendations side-by-side. It's just an impression, but fototime
    doesn't seem to have a strong emphasis on pro sales (more photo sharing,
    it seems). Do you agree?

    What does it cost you to host those 7,000 images annually, and what
    resolution are you storing? Unless they offer the option to upload
    proofs like the others, $24/yr per 1GB is going to cost a fortune for
    hosting event photos. Do you know if they support uploding high-res
    after an order is placed?

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard H., Sep 16, 2006
    #17
  18. Richard H.

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Richard H." <> writes:
    > What does it cost you to host those 7,000 images annually, and what
    > resolution are you storing? Unless they offer the option to upload
    > proofs like the others, $24/yr per 1GB is going to cost a fortune for
    > hosting event photos. Do you know if they support uploding high-res
    > after an order is placed?


    I think he said $2/month per 10GB, not per 1GB.

    A "fine"-quality 5MP jpeg takes about 1.5MB so 7000 of them would be
    10.5GB. For 16MP shots (EOS-1DS mk II) maybe that goes up to 40 GB,
    around $100 a year, still not bad if print sales are generating any
    serious amount of revenue.
    Paul Rubin, Sep 16, 2006
    #18
  19. Richard H.

    Frank ess Guest

    Paul Rubin wrote:
    > "Richard H." <> writes:
    >> What does it cost you to host those 7,000 images annually, and what
    >> resolution are you storing? Unless they offer the option to upload
    >> proofs like the others, $24/yr per 1GB is going to cost a fortune
    >> for
    >> hosting event photos. Do you know if they support uploding
    >> high-res
    >> after an order is placed?

    >
    > I think he said $2/month per 10GB, not per 1GB.
    >

    Richard:

    I corrected my mis-type; it's 1 (one) GB.

    I store for-web-link images, mostly. They tell me the average file
    size is 79.14 KB, but that includes a few large-for-print files and
    some video. If the projections Paul made (below) are in the ballpark,
    It might not be an appropriate venue.

    My (very low-volume) way of doing it has been to load un-processed but
    re-sized images for proofs purposes, with instructions to contact me
    with selections. When I know which are the desired ones I process and
    upload print-ready versions to a separate 'album', where prints can be
    ordered or the image downloaded, depending on prior arrangements.

    Not really conducive to the kind of work flow you describe.

    > A "fine"-quality 5MP jpeg takes about 1.5MB so 7000 of them would be
    > 10.5GB. For 16MP shots (EOS-1DS mk II) maybe that goes up to 40 GB,
    > around $100 a year, still not bad if print sales are generating any
    > serious amount of revenue.


    Paul:

    The few contacts I've had with the folks that run FotoTime have been
    pleasant and productive; I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be willing
    to make a better offer for the kind of volume Richard is
    contemplating, and even adjust their capabilities to his needs.

    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Sep 16, 2006
    #19
  20. Richard H.

    Guest

    Richard H. wrote:
    > > I use SmugMug but don't like the fact that this year they started to
    > > strip my domain masking.

    >
    > This concerned me, but on another posting here the masking is clearly
    > working: http://photo.higginsoft.com/
    >
    > Do you subscribe at a basic level, that they would have disabled this on
    > you and not his?
    >


    Yes I pay the basic level.

    When I mentioned it to them, they told me that masking was for Pro
    Level.
    It was OK for at least one year, before they downgraded basic level.
    , Sep 16, 2006
    #20
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