On AOL and sensoring email

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/

    Bad. Really microsoft even.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "The key benefit of open technologies such as open source software is
    freedom of choice."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 14, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Thor Guest

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:56:49 +1200, Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    > http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/
    >
    > Bad. Really microsoft even.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea




    Please explain what sensoring is ?

    mmm...maybe removing the sense organs
     
    Thor, Apr 14, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:58:44 +1200, Thor wrote:

    >> http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/
    >> Bad. Really microsoft even.

    >
    > Please explain what sensoring is ?


    sed /s/se/ce



    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:58:44 +1200, Thor wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/
    >>>Bad. Really microsoft even.

    >>
    >>Please explain what sensoring is ?

    >
    >
    > sed /s/se/ce
    >
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Good reasons to run your own email server....

    Your ISP does not send you advertising crap.
    You get less Spam
    You get to choose what is stopped or not
    One less point of failure.
    You can check the logs to see what is going wrong

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 14, 2006
    #4
  5. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:02:32 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    scrawl:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >

    *SNIP*

    You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Apr 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:02:32 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >
    >>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    >
    > *SNIP*
    >
    >>Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >>

    >
    > *SNIP*
    >
    > You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    > their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!
    >


    true....anyone with an IQ greater than 100 wouldn't be on AOL....

    I expect that blocking of port 25 will happen here everntually, I guess
    the lusers running insecure boxes will get so badly hacked that the rest
    of us will suffer....

    Rather sad that instead of penalising the morons who do get hacked they
    will penalise those that keep themselves secure....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 15, 2006
    #6
  7. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    scrawl:

    > Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > I expect that blocking of port 25 will happen here everntually, I guess
    > the lusers running insecure boxes will get so badly hacked that the rest
    > of us will suffer....
    >

    *SNIP*

    It's already happening, vis Xtra. Though, admittedly, they are the AOL of
    NZ 'net.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Apr 15, 2006
    #7
  8. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Enkidu Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:58:44 +1200, Thor wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>> http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/
    >>>> Bad. Really microsoft even.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Please explain what sensoring is ?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> sed /s/se/ce
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>

    >
    > Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >
    > Your ISP does not send you advertising crap.
    > You get less Spam
    > You get to choose what is stopped or not
    > One less point of failure.
    > You can check the logs to see what is going wrong
    >

    I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail server I
    got *tons* of SPAM. Spent all my time tweaking things to cut it down to
    a manageable size. After gettign a *huge* Jetstream bill I decided to
    use my ISP as a smarthost. They stop the majority of the SPAM, so I
    don't get nearly as much to deal with.

    The best overall solution is to run a mailserver, sure, but use a
    smarthost that pre-filters SPAM.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 15, 2006
    #8
  9. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:20:06 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    > their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!


    AOL needs to find a better LART than censorship.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand:
    How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 15, 2006
    #9
  10. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Rather sad that instead of penalising the morons who do get hacked they
    > will penalise those that keep themselves secure....


    Telecom has probably gone with the cheapest option instead of an option
    that actually sorts out the idiots who know little more than where the
    power switch is.

    "Log off? What do you mean by 'log off'? I just switch it on in the
    morning to read my email and switch it off again at night. Yeah ... it's
    been taking a little longer to start recently ... yeah ... it seems to
    always want to connect to the internet ... yeah ... it displays a blue
    screen with some stuff on it each time I run Nortons ... Updates? ... What
    do you mean by updates? I use Nort... <LART>"


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 15, 2006
    #10
  11. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:13:46 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail server I
    > got *tons* of SPAM.


    Had you been using any email address on Usenet that had your valid domain
    name in it? Had you put your email address onto a website?

    What precautions had you taken to ensure that spambots did not harvest
    your email address?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Enkidu Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:13:46 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail
    >> server I got *tons* of SPAM.

    >
    >
    > Had you been using any email address on Usenet that had your valid
    > domain name in it? Had you put your email address onto a website?
    >

    No and no.
    >
    > What precautions had you taken to ensure that spambots did not
    > harvest your email address?
    >

    I munge it everywhere.

    But this is irrelevant. Say I get the Domain Name xyzxyz.co.nz. It is
    recorded in the SRS database and so is my email address. If I get a .com
    address it is in the registrars database and my details (including my
    email address) can be looked up on whois.

    All a Spammer needs to do is put "@mydomainname.co.nz" into the database
    and bingo, I start getting email to "". If I
    run my own server *I* have to filter the crap much of which takes
    network resource, whether or not I do it at SMTP time or later.

    Nah, it's much simpler to let my ISP handle the SPAM and to login every
    month or so to check and clear the SPAM bucket.

    And that's without the spread of emails addresses through natural
    processes. If someone you know sends an email to 20 people that they
    know including you then there are 20 *other* people out there who have
    your valid email address. Now 1 in 20 is good odds that one of them has
    a Windows machine with a virus which on-mails a persons email address
    book. And you suddenly start getting SPAM to both your real address and
    .

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 15, 2006
    #12
  13. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +1200, thingy <>
    wrote:

    >Matthew Poole wrote:
    >> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:02:32 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    >> scrawl:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:

    >>
    >> *SNIP*
    >>
    >>>Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >>>

    >>
    >> *SNIP*
    >>
    >> You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    >> their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!
    >>

    >
    >true....anyone with an IQ greater than 100 wouldn't be on AOL....


    Be honest - have you ever been an AOL customer?
    Bet not!

    Frankly having been on AOL when living in California, I'd much rather
    sub to them than any isp. Sadly there are no connection numbers
    without having to pay long distance charges where I currently live.

    Cath
    >
    >I expect that blocking of port 25 will happen here everntually, I guess
    >the lusers running insecure boxes will get so badly hacked that the rest
    >of us will suffer....
    >
    >Rather sad that instead of penalising the morons who do get hacked they
    >will penalise those that keep themselves secure....
    >
    >regards
    >
    >Thing
     
    texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.., Apr 15, 2006
    #13
  14. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:58:44 +1200, Thor wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>> http://lawgeek.typepad.com/lawgeek/
    >>>>> Bad. Really microsoft even.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Please explain what sensoring is ?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> sed /s/se/ce
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>>

    >>
    >> Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >>
    >> Your ISP does not send you advertising crap.
    >> You get less Spam
    >> You get to choose what is stopped or not
    >> One less point of failure.
    >> You can check the logs to see what is going wrong
    >>

    > I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail server I
    > got *tons* of SPAM. Spent all my time tweaking things to cut it down to
    > a manageable size. After gettign a *huge* Jetstream bill I decided to
    > use my ISP as a smarthost. They stop the majority of the SPAM, so I
    > don't get nearly as much to deal with.
    >
    > The best overall solution is to run a mailserver, sure, but use a
    > smarthost that pre-filters SPAM.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    Do/did you use greylisting? I find it is stopping 99%+ of spam. In 3
    weeks I have had one spam get through, where I used to get 20~30 a day.
    Now I do still get 2~4 per day from my ISP when I use fetchmail.....in
    fact all of my mail from my ISP is spam....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 15, 2006
    #14
  15. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +1200, thingy <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Matthew Poole wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:02:32 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    >>>scrawl:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>>
    >>>*SNIP*
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>*SNIP*
    >>>
    >>>You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    >>>their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!
    >>>

    >>
    >>true....anyone with an IQ greater than 100 wouldn't be on AOL....

    >
    >
    > Be honest - have you ever been an AOL customer?
    > Bet not!
    >
    > Frankly having been on AOL when living in California, I'd much rather
    > sub to them than any isp. Sadly there are no connection numbers
    > without having to pay long distance charges where I currently live.
    >
    > Cath


    No, but I have supported Mac and Linux users who (moved off winblows)
    were.....they moved ISPs as well....

    If you are telling me there are signiificanlty worse ISPs than AOL....

    bugger.....is about all I can say....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 15, 2006
    #15
  16. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:43:23 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:13:46 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail
    >>> server I got *tons* of SPAM.

    >>
    >>
    >> Had you been using any email address on Usenet that had your valid
    >> domain name in it? Had you put your email address onto a website?
    >>

    > No and no.
    >>
    >> What precautions had you taken to ensure that spambots did not
    >> harvest your email address?
    >>

    > I munge it everywhere.


    I don't put anything that even vaguely resembles my email address on
    Usenet.

    And the email address I use on my website I only use that one on my
    website and for nothing else, and it is on there in such a way that simply
    parsing the page will not reveal it - and they'd have to get into the
    website first. :eek:)


    > But this is irrelevant. Say I get the Domain Name xyzxyz.co.nz. It is
    > recorded in the SRS database and so is my email address. If I get a .com
    > address it is in the registrars database and my details (including my
    > email address) can be looked up on whois.


    True. But if there is evidence of spammers harvesting email addresses from
    the database, then they'd be stomped on fairly hard, as that sort of
    activity is strictly prohibited - is it not.


    > All a Spammer needs to do is put "@mydomainname.co.nz" into the database
    > and bingo, I start getting email to "". If I
    > run my own server *I* have to filter the crap much of which takes
    > network resource, whether or not I do it at SMTP time or later.


    Yes, but why aren't you simply blocking, or dropping any connections that
    are for invalid email addresses?


    > Nah, it's much simpler to let my ISP handle the SPAM and to login every
    > month or so to check and clear the SPAM bucket.


    That reminds me... I should delete the spam at my old Xtra email address.


    > And that's without the spread of emails addresses through natural
    > processes. If someone you know sends an email to 20 people that they
    > know including you then there are 20 *other* people out there who have
    > your valid email address. Now 1 in 20 is good odds that one of them has
    > a Windows machine with a virus which on-mails a persons email address
    > book. And you suddenly start getting SPAM to both your real address and
    > .


    I have several email addresses that I use for different purposes, or for
    different groups of people.

    One for email lists,
    one for family
    one for close friends
    one to give out socially
    one for my website
    one for my CV.

    If I get spam to any of those addresses, then I can have a reasonable
    chance of knowing where the spammer harvested the email address.

    An email to an invalid address is simply dropped at the server.

    I also use a very looooong domain name as a trick to avoid dictionary
    tactics - and so far my tactics have worked. I've only had to change an
    email address once since I moved to my own domain.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 15, 2006
    #16
  17. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Enkidu Guest

    texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom.. wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:05:24 +1200, thingy <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Matthew Poole wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:02:32 +1200, someone purporting to be thingy didst
    >>>scrawl:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>>
    >>>*SNIP*
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Good reasons to run your own email server....
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>*SNIP*
    >>>
    >>>You really think AOL will allow that kind of carry-on? And risk losing
    >>>their control over the minds of their lusers? Puhlease!
    >>>

    >>
    >>true....anyone with an IQ greater than 100 wouldn't be on AOL....

    >
    >
    > Be honest - have you ever been an AOL customer?
    > Bet not!
    >
    > Frankly having been on AOL when living in California, I'd much rather
    > sub to them than any isp. Sadly there are no connection numbers
    > without having to pay long distance charges where I currently live.
    >

    Yes, I know several intelligent people who subscribe to AOL or AOL-like
    subscribers. They have one button to click to connect to the Internet,
    and they have no problems with mail (because AOL supplies the client)
    and they have no problems with browsing (because AOL supplies the
    client) and that is what they want.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 15, 2006
    #17
  18. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Enkidu Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:43:23 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:13:46 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I disagree with the "You get less Spam". When I ran my own mail
    >>>> server I got *tons* of SPAM.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Had you been using any email address on Usenet that had your
    >>> valid domain name in it? Had you put your email address onto a
    >>> website?
    >>>

    >>
    >> No and no.
    >>
    >>> What precautions had you taken to ensure that spambots did not
    >>> harvest your email address?
    >>>

    >>
    >> I munge it everywhere.

    >
    >
    > I don't put anything that even vaguely resembles my email address on
    > Usenet.
    >
    > And the email address I use on my website I only use that one on my
    > website and for nothing else, and it is on there in such a way that
    > simply parsing the page will not reveal it - and they'd have to get
    > into the website first. :eek:)
    >
    >
    >
    >> But this is irrelevant. Say I get the Domain Name xyzxyz.co.nz. It
    >> is recorded in the SRS database and so is my email address. If I
    >> get a .com address it is in the registrars database and my details
    >> (including my email address) can be looked up on whois.

    >
    >
    > True. But if there is evidence of spammers harvesting email addresses
    > from the database, then they'd be stomped on fairly hard, as that
    > sort of activity is strictly prohibited - is it not.
    >
    >
    >
    >> All a Spammer needs to do is put "@mydomainname.co.nz" into the
    >> database and bingo, I start getting email to
    >> "". If I run my own server *I* have to
    >> filter the crap much of which takes network resource, whether or
    >> not I do it at SMTP time or later.

    >
    >
    > Yes, but why aren't you simply blocking, or dropping any connections
    > that are for invalid email addresses?
    >

    Mmm. I do, but let's see... First the remote server must connect to me
    with a HELO. OK. Then it sends a MAIL FROM:. Mmm, OK. At this stage I
    have the option of checking the sender's email address. That involves
    some traffic between me and the sending SMTP server. OK, suppose that
    checks OK (for SPAM it often fails this test). At this stage or before I
    might check with a SPAM black-list. More traffic. I then get a RCPT TO:.
    Finally, I get to see who it is intended for and maybe I'll drop it at
    this stage. But a heck of a lot of traffic has been used, even if I do
    drop at this stage. And I haven't figured in DNS traffic.....
    >
    >
    >> Nah, it's much simpler to let my ISP handle the SPAM and to login
    >> every month or so to check and clear the SPAM bucket.

    >
    >
    > That reminds me... I should delete the spam at my old Xtra email
    > address.
    >

    Yeah, and don't delete the job offer, salary paid into an overseas bank
    in US dollars...
    >
    >> And that's without the spread of emails addresses through natural
    >> processes. If someone you know sends an email to 20 people that
    >> they know including you then there are 20 *other* people out there
    >> who have your valid email address. Now 1 in 20 is good odds that
    >> one of them has a Windows machine with a virus which on-mails a
    >> persons email address book. And you suddenly start getting SPAM to
    >> both your real address and .

    >
    > I have several email addresses that I use for different purposes, or
    > for different groups of people.
    >
    > One for email lists, one for family one for close friends one to give
    > out socially one for my website one for my CV.
    >
    > If I get spam to any of those addresses, then I can have a reasonable
    > chance of knowing where the spammer harvested the email address.
    >

    No, you don't. Read my para above. Say you send an email to Mum. Mum
    sends a joke to *you* AND all her knitting circle buddies. All the
    knitting circle buddies have your address and you don't know that! If
    your family email address turns up in SPAM, it could be as a result
    *anyone* who has even a remote connection with your family. Email
    addresses LEAK.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 15, 2006
    #18
  19. On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:04:01 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > No, you don't. Read my para above. Say you send an email to Mum. Mum
    > sends a joke to *you* AND all her knitting circle buddies. All the
    > knitting circle buddies have your address and you don't know that!


    Yes you do - it's in the headers. The only time you wouldn't see who else
    it went to is if it was BCC'd - and then nobody else would know who it
    went to either.

    AND, like I said, I'd know it wasn't harvested from any of the people who
    don't know about the email address that the spam came from.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 15, 2006
    #19
  20. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Enkidu Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:04:01 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >
    >> No, you don't. Read my para above. Say you send an email to Mum.
    >> Mum sends a joke to *you* AND all her knitting circle buddies. All
    >> the knitting circle buddies have your address and you don't know
    >> that!

    >
    > Yes you do - it's in the headers. The only time you wouldn't see who
    > else it went to is if it was BCC'd - and then nobody else would know
    > who it went to either.
    >

    Sigh! Yes, if you bother to check, you know that Mum sent an email to
    you and her friends. But that means that your email address is out there.

    You send an email to Mum from you Friends and Family email address,
    . Mum sends an email joke to
    and . *Elsie Potts now
    has your email address*. It's in the headers! Elsie gets a virus and the
    virus emails her and your email address to the virus writer who adds it
    to his list and sells the list to the SPAMmer. The SPAMmer SPAMs you
    using his SPAM engine. You receive an email to your Friends and Family
    address and there is NO trail back through Elsie and Mum.
    >
    > AND, like I said, I'd know it wasn't harvested from any of the people
    > who don't know about the email address that the spam came from.
    >

    You wouldn't know through whom it was harvested. It could have been
    through any email contact of any of the people in your F&F list.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Apr 15, 2006
    #20
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