Olympus in-body Image Stabilization misrepresentation

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Orange, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. Orange

    Orange Guest

    Hello. A word to the wise:
    I bought an Olympus E-510 camera for the in-body image stabilization.
    They advertised the in-body Image Stabilization as "works with any
    lens." Now they are repeating the same hype with their new E-3 camera.

    The sales rap was, "With Nikon or Canon, you have to pay for expensive
    optical image stabilization in the lens, and you have to pay for it in
    every lens that you want stabilized. But with Olympus, you buy the in-
    body image stabilization once, and it stabilizes every lens."

    'John Knaur, senior marketing manager, Digital SLR, Olympus Imaging
    America Inc said,
    "The new E-3 will satisfy the pro-level needs of our customers with
    incredible AF speed, superior image quality ue, in part, to In-body
    Mechanical Image Stabilization that stabilizes all lenses attached to
    the camera..." '

    Olympus Product Manager Sally Smith Clemens said, "Our feeling in this
    camera is that in-body-based image stabilization is an advantage to
    the user because every lens or every existing lens they have would be
    able to take advantage of image stabilization by having it built into
    the body."

    "...Every lens, or every existing lens..." That's pretty definite.

    But that isn't true. The minute that you mount a legacy manual-focus
    lens on either camera, the camera responds by TURNING OFF the in-body
    image stabilization and the Focus Confirmation. Even classic Olympus
    Zuiko manual focus lenses are disabled.

    I have written to Olympus about this, asking for a firmware update to
    fix the problem, and received an answer that said, in so many words,
    "Thank you loyal Olympus customer. Many people have mentioned this. We
    will think about it." It turns out that the owners of Olympus E-1 and
    E-300 cameras have been begging for several years for a firmware
    upgrade that would enable the Focus Confirmation with legacy lenses.
    And Olympus refuses to fix the problem. They are still "thinking about
    it."

    The apparent corporate policy is to pressure you to buy all new lenses
    from them.
    So, it seems that Hell will freeze over before they issue a fix.

    On the other hand, I have learned that Pentax also has in-body image
    stabilization. And when they say that their in-body image
    stabilization will stabilize any and all lenses that you can attach to
    the camera, they mean ALL LENSES. You just dial in the focal length of
    the manual-focus lens that you have mounted, and it works. Look at the
    K10D.

    And someone in Russia just came out with a "liar chip". (There are
    some samples being marketed on the German eBay web site.) It's a
    little piece of PC board with gold contacts and a chip. You glue it
    onto your lens adapter so that the contacts connect with the camera
    just as if you had an electronic Four-Thirds lens on the camera.
    The chip lies to the camera and says, "Yes, I'm a genuine Four-Thirds
    lens, and my focal length is XXX."
    And the Image Stabilization and Focus Confirmation immediately start
    working.
    All you need is a chip that will tell sweet lies to your camera body.

    So it isn't an engineering problem. It's a corporate policy problem.
     
    Orange, Nov 17, 2007
    #1
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  2. Orange

    JacksonL-T Guest

    On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:16:09 -0800 (PST), Orange <>
    wrote:

    >The apparent corporate policy is to pressure you to buy all new lenses
    >from them.
    >So, it seems that Hell will freeze over before they issue a fix.


    How is this different from any other company that sells D-SLRs? They make their
    money in the exorbitantly overpriced glass and add-ons, not the camera.

    When you really think about it ... everyone is in an uproar over any store that
    baits you into a lower priced item and then tries to push you into buying
    overpriced add-ons, where they really make their money. They use that as
    indicator #1 on how to spot disreputable dealers. Then they think nothing about
    it when the company that they buy their D-SLR from does the exact same thing.
    Absolutely zero difference.

    Yes, you get EXACTLY what you pay for. They just never stop to think what they
    are really paying for. They pay to be taken for and made into fools.

    The absurdity and stupidity of humanity never ceases to amaze me.
     
    JacksonL-T, Nov 18, 2007
    #2
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  3. Orange

    Pete D Guest

    "JacksonL-T" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:16:09 -0800 (PST), Orange <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>The apparent corporate policy is to pressure you to buy all new lenses
    >>from them.
    >>So, it seems that Hell will freeze over before they issue a fix.

    >
    > How is this different from any other company that sells D-SLRs? They make
    > their
    > money in the exorbitantly overpriced glass and add-ons, not the camera.


    Well he did explain that Pentax let you use any lens so that is certainly
    different.

    > When you really think about it ... everyone is in an uproar over any store
    > that
    > baits you into a lower priced item and then tries to push you into buying
    > overpriced add-ons, where they really make their money. They use that as
    > indicator #1 on how to spot disreputable dealers. Then they think nothing
    > about
    > it when the company that they buy their D-SLR from does the exact same
    > thing.
    > Absolutely zero difference.


    ???

    > Yes, you get EXACTLY what you pay for. They just never stop to think what
    > they
    > are really paying for. They pay to be taken for and made into fools.
    >
    > The absurdity and stupidity of humanity never ceases to amaze me.


    ???
     
    Pete D, Nov 18, 2007
    #3
  4. Orange

    Orange Guest

    On Nov 17, 9:21 pm, JacksonL-T <> wrote:
    > On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:16:09 -0800 (PST), Orange <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >The apparent corporate policy is to pressure you to buy all new lenses
    > >from them.
    > >So, it seems that Hell will freeze over before they issue a fix.

    >
    > How is this different from any other company that sells D-SLRs?


    Well, false advertising is still false advertising.

    > The absurdity and stupidity of humanity never ceases to amaze me.


    So I'm stupid for believing Olympus claims?
    When they advertise "10 megapixels", am I stupid to believe that?
    When they advertise "has a Live-View LCD display on the back", am I
    stupid to believe that?
    When they advertise "has a dust-buster that shakes dust off of the
    sensor", am I stupid to believe that?
    I think not. Because those are all real features of the camera.
    So what is so stupid about believing "In-body Image Stabilization
    works with any existing lens you have"?
     
    Orange, Nov 18, 2007
    #4
  5. Orange wrote:

    > But that isn't true. The minute that you mount a legacy manual-focus
    > lens on either camera, the camera responds by TURNING OFF the in-body
    > image stabilization and the Focus Confirmation. Even classic Olympus
    > Zuiko manual focus lenses are disabled.


    They should have stated the lack of IS in the specs for their OM to
    four-thirds adapter, but they forgot to do so. However they do state
    that auto-focus is not possible, and focus confirmation is tied to AF.

    "http://olympuszuiko.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mf1instcomp.pdf"
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 18, 2007
    #5
  6. Orange wrote:

    > So what is so stupid about believing "In-body Image Stabilization
    > works with any existing lens you have"?


    They should have stated that using their 4/3 to OM adapter turns off IS.
    However they may have jut thought that it was common knowledge that when
    you use incompatible lenses via adapters that all automatic functions
    are lost due to the lack of communication between the body and lens.

    You'd probably have to manually enter the focal length of the lens
    somehow for IS to work via a lens adapter.
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 18, 2007
    #6
  7. Orange

    Orange Guest

    On Nov 18, 8:59 am, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <> wrote:
    > Orange wrote:
    > > So what is so stupid about believing "In-body Image Stabilization
    > > works with any existing lens you have"?

    >
    > They should have stated that using their 4/3 to OM adapter turns off IS.
    > However they may have jut thought that it was common knowledge that when
    > you use incompatible lenses via adapters that all automatic functions
    > are lost due to the lack of communication between the body and lens.
    >
    > You'd probably have to manually enter the focal length of the lens
    > somehow for IS to work via a lens adapter.


    Yes, exactly. That is how Pentax does it. You just dial in the focal
    length with the control wheel. That's easy. I don't mind that at all.
    After all, it *is* manual focus. I don't mind a little knob-twiddling
    to make things work correctly. I just want it to be *possible* to make
    things work correctly (especially without having to resort to using
    Liar Chips that don't really solve the problem with zoom lenses).

    I doubt seriously if Olympus just assumed that everybody knew that
    their advertising about "in-body IS works with every existing lens you
    have" really means "works with some lenses, but not others".
     
    Orange, Nov 18, 2007
    #7
  8. Orange wrote:

    > I doubt seriously if Olympus just assumed that everybody knew that
    > their advertising about "in-body IS works with every existing lens you
    > have" really means "works with some lenses, but not others".


    Well I'm sure that what they meant to say was that IS worked with all
    Olympus 4/3 system lenses. Indeed, they should have explicitly stated
    that it did not work with any other lenses.
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 18, 2007
    #8
  9. Orange

    Orange Guest

    On Nov 18, 1:10 pm, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <> wrote:
    > Orange wrote:
    > > I doubt seriously if Olympus just assumed that everybody knew that
    > > their advertising about "in-body IS works with every existing lens you
    > > have" really means "works with some lenses, but not others".

    >
    > Well I'm sure that what they meant to say was that IS worked with all
    > Olympus 4/3 system lenses. Indeed, they should have explicitly stated
    > that it did not work with any other lenses.


    On the contrary, what I'm pretty sure of is that they really meant to
    say is that their new system is so good that people should rush out
    and buy it right now.

    (And who wants to get hung up on little details like the fact that the
    factory will program the cameras to fail to live up to the
    advertising?)
     
    Orange, Nov 18, 2007
    #9
  10. Orange wrote:

    > (And who wants to get hung up on little details like the fact that the
    > factory will program the cameras to fail to live up to the
    > advertising?)


    I would give them the benefit of the doubt here. Whoever wrote the
    collateral forgot to include a footnote regarding using non-4/3 lenses
    via the OM lens to 4/3 body adapter.

    I doubt that Nikon states in the collateral for the D40/D40x that many
    older Nikon lenses won't work on the D40/D40x, even though both the body
    and lenses have one of the versions of the Nikon F mount. Canon probably
    doesn't state that their older FD lenses won't support many of the
    features of the EOS body when used with an EOS to FD adapter.

    As to the Olympus digital SLR bodies, there are sufficient reasons to
    avoid them even if the OM lenses did work with image stabilization.
     
    SMS 斯蒂文• å¤, Nov 19, 2007
    #10
  11. Orange

    nospam Guest

    In article <47413c5a$0$79946$>, SMS ÊñØËíÇÊñá’Ä¢
    夏 <> wrote:

    > I doubt that Nikon states in the collateral for the D40/D40x that many
    > older Nikon lenses won't work on the D40/D40x,


    they work just fine, but nikon does state that non-afs lenses will
    require manual focus on the d40/d40x.
     
    nospam, Nov 19, 2007
    #11
  12. Orange

    Pete D Guest

    "nospam" <> wrote in message
    news:181120072355443947%...
    > In article <47413c5a$0$79946$>, SMS ÊñØËíÇÊñá'Ä¢
    > 夏 <> wrote:
    >
    >> I doubt that Nikon states in the collateral for the D40/D40x that many
    >> older Nikon lenses won't work on the D40/D40x,

    >
    > they work just fine, but nikon does state that non-afs lenses will
    > require manual focus on the d40/d40x.


    I suspect that not many users of D40/D40X care about manual focus lenses,
    they will mostly buy the basic kit lens or basic two lens kit and be
    deleriously happy.
     
    Pete D, Nov 19, 2007
    #12
  13. Orange

    nospam Guest

    In article
    <474155ac$0$10339$>, Pete D
    <> wrote:

    > "nospam" <> wrote in message
    > news:181120072355443947%...
    > > In article <47413c5a$0$79946$>, SMS ÊñØËíÇÊñá'Ä¢
    > > 夏 <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> I doubt that Nikon states in the collateral for the D40/D40x that many
    > >> older Nikon lenses won't work on the D40/D40x,

    > >
    > > they work just fine, but nikon does state that non-afs lenses will
    > > require manual focus on the d40/d40x.

    >
    > I suspect that not many users of D40/D40X care about manual focus lenses,
    > they will mostly buy the basic kit lens or basic two lens kit and be
    > deleriously happy.


    exactly correct.
     
    nospam, Nov 19, 2007
    #13
  14. Orange

    van Dark Guest

    Alfred Molon napsal(a):
    > IS will work with any 4/3 lens. It does not work with legacy lenses,
    > because the IS needs to know the focal length of the lens and this is
    > not communicated to the camera with legacy lenses.

    I am sorry for my ignorance. What it is "4/3 lens", please?
    Thanks, Van
     
    van Dark, Nov 19, 2007
    #14
  15. Orange

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, van Dark
    <> wrote:

    > Alfred Molon napsal(a):
    > > IS will work with any 4/3 lens. It does not work with legacy lenses,
    > > because the IS needs to know the focal length of the lens and this is
    > > not communicated to the camera with legacy lenses.

    > I am sorry for my ignorance. What it is "4/3 lens", please?


    lenses that fit the olympus 4/3rds system.

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thirds_System>
     
    nospam, Nov 19, 2007
    #15
  16. Orange

    Alfred Molon Guest

    IS will work with any 4/3 lens. It does not work with legacy lenses,
    because the IS needs to know the focal length of the lens and this is
    not communicated to the camera with legacy lenses.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 19, 2007
    #16
  17. Orange

    Steven Wandy Guest

    On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:35:35 -0800, SMS ???• ?
    <> wrote:


    >As to the Olympus digital SLR bodies, there are sufficient reasons to
    >avoid them even if the OM lenses did work with image stabilization.


    And why is this?
     
    Steven Wandy, Nov 19, 2007
    #17
  18. Orange

    Steven Wandy Guest

    On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:27:44 -0800 (PST), Orange
    <> wrote:


    >> Well I'm sure that what they meant to say was that IS worked with all
    >> Olympus 4/3 system lenses. Indeed, they should have explicitly stated
    >> that it did not work with any other lenses.

    >

    They say it will work with any lens you can mount on the body. No
    mention of lenses that need any sort of adapter. The older lenses will
    not mount on the body without an adapter.


    >On the contrary, what I'm pretty sure of is that they really meant to
    >say is that their new system is so good that people should rush out
    >and buy it right now.
    >
    >(And who wants to get hung up on little details like the fact that the
    >factory will program the cameras to fail to live up to the
    >advertising?)


    I really think that your conspiratorial theory is a little over the
    top. While I agree that some mention about legacy lenses not
    functioning with the IS would have been nice, it does not lead me to
    believe that it was done intentionally.
     
    Steven Wandy, Nov 19, 2007
    #18
  19. Orange

    dj_nme Guest

    Alfred Molon wrote:
    > IS will work with any 4/3 lens. It does not work with legacy lenses,
    > because the IS needs to know the focal length of the lens and this is
    > not communicated to the camera with legacy lenses.


    Perhaps the 4/3 cabal should take a leaf out of the Pentax/Samsung book?
    Let users input the focal length of non 4/3 lenses, just as the K10D and
    the GX10 do on startup for Pentax K non-A lenses to get the IS to work
    with any attached lens.
     
    dj_nme, Nov 19, 2007
    #19
  20. Orange

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <4741b2e1$0$29799$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
    01.iinet.net.au>, dj_nme says...

    > Let users input the focal length of non 4/3 lenses, just as the K10D and
    > the GX10 do on startup for Pentax K non-A lenses to get the IS to work
    > with any attached lens.


    A bit messy if you are using a zoom.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E3X0, E4X0 and E5X0 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 19, 2007
    #20
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