Oh go on, we need an OOo vs Office thread

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Shane, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Shane

    Shane Guest

    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210

    The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
    the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    licenses.

    For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
    have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
    getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.


    --
    Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    A: A Bananach space.
     
    Shane, Jul 18, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Shane

    peterwn Guest

    Shane wrote:
    > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >
    > The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
    > the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    > licenses.
    >


    This is the whole point. Microsoft may provide a very sweet deal if
    pressured to retain or regain customers. I say "may", since it may not
    be in their interests to give all comers a similar sweet deal.
    Microsoft will continue to seek out such "trophy" customers.

    The big potential losers are not major businesses, but small businesses
    and individuals (especially those with no access to cheap 'home
    licences' via employers), as they can only buy 'shrinkwrap' versions at
    retail prices and have no bargaining power over price or EULA. It is
    this group that Microsoft is so anxious to 'lock in' as it most probably
    provides a major portion of Microsoft income.

    This is why I am shamelessly pushing the "Office" file format issue here
    - this is the guts of the whole issue - and one that will affect many
    ordinary users in the very near future. I repeat - it is a file format
    issue, not a Microsoft v Linux issue as Microsoft fans would like to
    portray it.
     
    peterwn, Jul 18, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Shane

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <-a-geek.net>
    exclaimed:

    >http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >
    >The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
    >the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >licenses.
    >
    >For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
    >have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
    >getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    >The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.


    So their deal was cheaper than OOo?
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 18, 2007
    #3
  4. Shane

    sam Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <-a-geek.net>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>
    >> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
    >> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >> licenses.
    >>
    >> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
    >> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
    >> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    >> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.

    >
    > So their deal was cheaper than OOo?


    It would be a more credible news item if it wasn't such an obvious
    jack-up between Microsoft NZ and a former staff member.
     
    sam, Jul 18, 2007
    #4
  5. Shane

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:45:53 +1200, sam <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:47:36 +1200, Shane <-a-geek.net>
    >> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>
    >>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO of
    >>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >>> licenses.
    >>>
    >>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office suites,
    >>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise you're
    >>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    >>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.

    >>
    >> So their deal was cheaper than OOo?

    >
    >It would be a more credible news item if it wasn't such an obvious
    >jack-up between Microsoft NZ and a former staff member.


    Oh come on. That's a copout, sorry.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 18, 2007
    #5
  6. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >
    > The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
    > of
    > the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    > licenses.
    >
    > For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    > suites,
    > have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    > you're
    > getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    > The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    > A: A Bananach space.
    >


    FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no means
    the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:

    http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx

    Brett Roberts
    Microsoft NZ
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 19, 2007
    #6
  7. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>
    >> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
    >> of
    >> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >> licenses.
    >>
    >> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >> suites,
    >> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >> you're
    >> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    >> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >> A: A Bananach space.
    >>

    >
    > FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    > means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >
    > Brett Roberts
    > Microsoft NZ


    Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not receiving
    the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
    for their staff?

    --
    Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    A: He worked it out with a pencil!
     
    Shane, Jul 19, 2007
    #7
  8. Shane

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:41:33 +1200, Shane <-a-geek.net>
    exclaimed:
    >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>
    >>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The CIO
    >>> of
    >>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >>> licenses.
    >>>
    >>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>> suites,
    >>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>> you're
    >>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo migration.
    >>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>

    >>
    >> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    >> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>
    >> Brett Roberts
    >> Microsoft NZ

    >
    >Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not receiving
    >the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
    >for their staff?


    You and your ilk always talk about "entitlements". In the real world,
    agreements are negotiated between parties. Nobody is "entitled" to
    anything.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jul 19, 2007
    #8
  9. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>
    >>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
    >>> CIO
    >>> of
    >>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >>> licenses.
    >>>
    >>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>> suites,
    >>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>> you're
    >>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>> migration.
    >>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>

    >>
    >> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    >> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>
    >> Brett Roberts
    >> Microsoft NZ

    >
    > Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    > receiving
    > the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
    > for their staff?
    >
    > --
    > Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    > A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >


    You're not getting this are you ? Home Usage Rights aren't some
    secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any customer
    can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
    about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license agreement.
    By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a number of Software
    Assurance benefits:

    http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx

    While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for what
    they're worth...

    Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats) Oo_O
    competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my memory
    serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I am enough
    of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and been
    completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers were already
    using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e. they wanted out
    of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by customer but there are
    some common threads to most of the discussions I've been involved in:

    - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with this
    alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a full
    re-install still needed ?)
    - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email client)
    - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g. Sharepoint in our
    case)
    - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office suite
    first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    management in two of the competitive situations)
    - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in a
    big way)
    - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap

    That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may have a
    roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite Linux
    disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure vendor of
    choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all ours) but,
    from conversations I've had with a large number of management and IT people
    here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to choke" is seen as
    one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of them.

    The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
    functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
    hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in NZ.

    HTH

    Brett Roberts
    Microsoft NZ
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #9
  10. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    >> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>>
    >>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
    >>>> CIO
    >>>> of
    >>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >>>> licenses.
    >>>>
    >>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>>> suites,
    >>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>>> you're
    >>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>>> migration.
    >>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    >>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>>
    >>> Brett Roberts
    >>> Microsoft NZ

    >>
    >> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    >> receiving
    >> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home license
    >> for their staff?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    >> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >>

    >
    > You're not getting this are you ?


    I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
    Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the air
    on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.


    > Home Usage Rights aren't some
    > secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any customer
    > can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    > involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
    > about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
    > agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
    > number of Software Assurance benefits:
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx
    >
    > While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    > source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    > competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    > their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    > doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    > what they're worth...
    >
    > Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats) Oo_O
    > competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my memory
    > serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I am enough
    > of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and been
    > completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers were
    > already using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e. they
    > wanted out of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by customer
    > but there are some common threads to most of the discussions I've been
    > involved in:
    >
    > - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
    > this alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    > - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a full
    > re-install still needed ?)
    > - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
    > client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g. Sharepoint
    > in our case)
    > - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office suite
    > first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    > (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    > management in two of the competitive situations)
    > - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    > - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in a
    > big way)
    > - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
    >
    > That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may have a
    > roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
    > Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
    > vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all
    > ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of management
    > and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
    > choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
    > them.
    >
    > The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
    > functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
    > hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in NZ.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > Brett Roberts
    > Microsoft NZ


    Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...


    --
    "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    degrees and try again..."
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #10
  11. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    > While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    > source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    > competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    > their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    > doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    > what they're worth...


    > Brett Roberts
    > Microsoft NZ



    I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of total
    machines being compromised"
    Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?

    --
    Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #11
  12. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7pa73$ofb$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    >> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    >> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    >> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >> what they're worth...

    >
    >> Brett Roberts
    >> Microsoft NZ

    >
    >
    > I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    > compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of total
    > machines being compromised"
    > Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?
    >
    > --
    > Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    > A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
    >


    Sorry, I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about (hey, if it's good
    enough for you it's good enough for me)
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #12
  13. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7pa0t$ofb$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >> news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    >>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
    >>>>> CIO
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500 'home'
    >>>>> licenses.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>>>> suites,
    >>>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>>>> you're
    >>>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>>>> migration.
    >>>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>>>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    >>>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>>>
    >>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>
    >>> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    >>> receiving
    >>> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home
    >>> license
    >>> for their staff?
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    >>> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >>>

    >>
    >> You're not getting this are you ?

    >
    > I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
    > Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the
    > air
    > on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.
    >
    >
    >> Home Usage Rights aren't some
    >> secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any
    >> customer
    >> can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    >> involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
    >> about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
    >> agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
    >> number of Software Assurance benefits:
    >>
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx
    >>
    >> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    >> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    >> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    >> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >> what they're worth...
    >>
    >> Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats) Oo_O
    >> competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my memory
    >> serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I am
    >> enough
    >> of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and been
    >> completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers were
    >> already using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e. they
    >> wanted out of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by customer
    >> but there are some common threads to most of the discussions I've been
    >> involved in:
    >>
    >> - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
    >> this alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    >> - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a full
    >> re-install still needed ?)
    >> - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
    >> client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g. Sharepoint
    >> in our case)
    >> - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office suite
    >> first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    >> (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    >> management in two of the competitive situations)
    >> - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    >> - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in a
    >> big way)
    >> - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
    >>
    >> That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may have
    >> a
    >> roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
    >> Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
    >> vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all
    >> ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of management
    >> and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
    >> choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
    >> them.
    >>
    >> The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
    >> functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
    >> hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in
    >> NZ.
    >>
    >> HTH
    >>
    >> Brett Roberts
    >> Microsoft NZ

    >
    > Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...
    >
    >
    > --
    > "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    > degrees and try again..."
    >


    Apologies if I exceeded your attention span.
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #13
  14. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7pa73$ofb$...
    >> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>
    >>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    >>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    >>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    >>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >>> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >>> what they're worth...

    >>
    >>> Brett Roberts
    >>> Microsoft NZ

    >>
    >>
    >> I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    >> compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of
    >> total machines being compromised"
    >> Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    >> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
    >>

    >
    > Sorry, I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about (hey, if it's good
    > enough for you it's good enough for me)


    Good thing google exists eh :)

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/4733d79d2c118f72?dmode=source&hl=en

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/a388b98116275fb6?dmode=source&hl=en
    --
    "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    degrees and try again..."
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #14
  15. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7pa0t$ofb$...
    >> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>> news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    >>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>>>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office. The
    >>>>>> CIO
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500
    >>>>>> 'home' licenses.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>>>>> suites,
    >>>>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>>>>> you're
    >>>>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>>>>> migration.
    >>>>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>>>>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by no
    >>>>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>
    >>>> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    >>>> receiving
    >>>> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home
    >>>> license
    >>>> for their staff?
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    >>>> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> You're not getting this are you ?

    >>
    >> I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
    >> Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the
    >> air
    >> on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Home Usage Rights aren't some
    >>> secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any
    >>> customer
    >>> can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    >>> involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to us
    >>> about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
    >>> agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
    >>> number of Software Assurance benefits:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx
    >>>
    >>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the open
    >>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in these
    >>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could focus
    >>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >>> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >>> what they're worth...
    >>>
    >>> Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats)
    >>> Oo_O competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my
    >>> memory serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I
    >>> am enough
    >>> of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and
    >>> been completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers
    >>> were already using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e.
    >>> they wanted out of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by
    >>> customer but there are some common threads to most of the discussions
    >>> I've been involved in:
    >>>
    >>> - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
    >>> this alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    >>> - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a
    >>> full re-install still needed ?)
    >>> - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
    >>> client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g.
    >>> Sharepoint in our case)
    >>> - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office
    >>> suite first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    >>> (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    >>> management in two of the competitive situations)
    >>> - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    >>> - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in
    >>> a big way)
    >>> - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
    >>>
    >>> That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may have
    >>> a
    >>> roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
    >>> Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
    >>> vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of all
    >>> ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of management
    >>> and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
    >>> choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
    >>> them.
    >>>
    >>> The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix of
    >>> functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by a
    >>> hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in
    >>> NZ.
    >>>
    >>> HTH
    >>>
    >>> Brett Roberts
    >>> Microsoft NZ

    >>
    >> Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    >> degrees and try again..."
    >>

    >
    > Apologies if I exceeded your attention span.


    Apologies if getting you to explain your own companies policy causes you to
    squirm.
    --
    Q: What is very old, used by farmers, and obeys the fundamental theorem of
    arithmetic?
    A: An antique tractorisation domain.
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #15
  16. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7pciu$tp8$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >> news:f7pa0t$ofb$...
    >>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>> news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    >>>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>>>>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office.
    >>>>>>> The
    >>>>>>> CIO
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500
    >>>>>>> 'home' licenses.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>>>>>> suites,
    >>>>>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal, otherwise
    >>>>>>> you're
    >>>>>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>>>>>> migration.
    >>>>>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable deal.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>>>>>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by
    >>>>>> no
    >>>>>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    >>>>> receiving
    >>>>> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home
    >>>>> license
    >>>>> for their staff?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    >>>>> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You're not getting this are you ?
    >>>
    >>> I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
    >>> Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the
    >>> air
    >>> on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Home Usage Rights aren't some
    >>>> secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any
    >>>> customer
    >>>> can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    >>>> involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to
    >>>> us
    >>>> about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
    >>>> agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
    >>>> number of Software Assurance benefits:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx
    >>>>
    >>>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the
    >>>> open
    >>>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in
    >>>> these
    >>>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could
    >>>> focus
    >>>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >>>> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >>>> what they're worth...
    >>>>
    >>>> Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats)
    >>>> Oo_O competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my
    >>>> memory serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that, I
    >>>> am enough
    >>>> of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and
    >>>> been completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers
    >>>> were already using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa (i.e.
    >>>> they wanted out of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair bit by
    >>>> customer but there are some common threads to most of the discussions
    >>>> I've been involved in:
    >>>>
    >>>> - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
    >>>> this alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    >>>> - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a
    >>>> full re-install still needed ?)
    >>>> - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
    >>>> client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g.
    >>>> Sharepoint in our case)
    >>>> - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office
    >>>> suite first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    >>>> (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    >>>> management in two of the competitive situations)
    >>>> - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    >>>> - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this in
    >>>> a big way)
    >>>> - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
    >>>>
    >>>> That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may
    >>>> have
    >>>> a
    >>>> roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
    >>>> Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
    >>>> vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of
    >>>> all
    >>>> ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of
    >>>> management
    >>>> and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
    >>>> choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
    >>>> them.
    >>>>
    >>>> The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix
    >>>> of
    >>>> functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by
    >>>> a
    >>>> hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in
    >>>> NZ.
    >>>>
    >>>> HTH
    >>>>
    >>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>
    >>> Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by
    >>> 90
    >>> degrees and try again..."
    >>>

    >>
    >> Apologies if I exceeded your attention span.

    >
    > Apologies if getting you to explain your own companies policy causes you
    > to
    > squirm.
    > --
    > Q: What is very old, used by farmers, and obeys the fundamental theorem of
    > arithmetic?
    > A: An antique tractorisation domain.
    >


    What on earth makes you think I'm squirming ? Once again I would make the
    point about your self-denial (but, of course, you'd deny you're suffering
    from it) :)
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #16
  17. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7pciu$tp8$...
    >> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>> news:f7pa0t$ofb$...
    >>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:f7mtei$ggj$...
    >>>>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:f7jkav$hgd$...
    >>>>>>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/17/1815210
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> The gist of it is, AA has migrated from OOo to Microsoft Office.
    >>>>>>>> The
    >>>>>>>> CIO
    >>>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>>> the AA is an ex Microsoft staffer, and Microsoft handed out 500
    >>>>>>>> 'home' licenses.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> For those of you that have a 500+ seat environment that uses Office
    >>>>>>>> suites,
    >>>>>>>> have a word to your local rep about getting the same deal,
    >>>>>>>> otherwise you're
    >>>>>>>> getting shafted. In which case I'd suggest costing out an OOo
    >>>>>>>> migration.
    >>>>>>>> The fact you even look will be enough to get a more favourable
    >>>>>>>> deal.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>> Q: What's yellow, normed, and complete?
    >>>>>>>> A: A Bananach space.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> FYI, the Home Use Program has been around for years and NZAA are by
    >>>>>>> no
    >>>>>>> means the first NZ customer to take advantage of it:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/home_use_rights.mspx
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Are you confirming then that CIO's reading this newsgroup and not
    >>>>>> receiving
    >>>>>> the above *should* contact their rep and will be entitled to home
    >>>>>> license
    >>>>>> for their staff?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Q: What did the constipated mathematician do?
    >>>>>> A: He worked it out with a pencil!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You're not getting this are you ?
    >>>>
    >>>> I love the way you (and the shills) make this an us vs them argument.
    >>>> Its a poor VP indeed that doesnt recognise an oppourtunity to clear the
    >>>> air
    >>>> on an issue being given to them when its placed on a silver platter.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Home Usage Rights aren't some
    >>>>> secret-squirrel, use as a last resort deal. They're an option any
    >>>>> customer
    >>>>> can opt to take (or not) depending on the type of license agreement
    >>>>> involved. I would absolutely love CIO's reading this group to talk to
    >>>>> us
    >>>>> about them if/when they're looking at a Microsoft volume license
    >>>>> agreement. By the way Mr/Ms CIO, Home Usage Rights are just one of a
    >>>>> number of Software Assurance benefits:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/australia/licensing/sa/benefits.mspx
    >>>>>
    >>>>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the
    >>>>> open
    >>>>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in
    >>>>> these
    >>>>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could
    >>>>> focus
    >>>>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as
    >>>>> this doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy
    >>>>> hints for what they're worth...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Locally, we've run into a handful of sizeable (let's say >100 seats)
    >>>>> Oo_O competitive situations over the last two years or so and, if my
    >>>>> memory serves me correctly, we are yet to lose one (having said that,
    >>>>> I am enough
    >>>>> of a realist to know that there will be a few deals we have lost and
    >>>>> been completely unaware of). Interestingly a number of the customers
    >>>>> were already using Oo_O and contacted *us* rather than vice versa
    >>>>> (i.e. they wanted out of Oo_O). The reasons for the wins vary a fair
    >>>>> bit by customer but there are some common threads to most of the
    >>>>> discussions I've been involved in:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> - issues with initial deployment (one customer had enough hassles with
    >>>>> this alone that they immediately ditched Oo_O)
    >>>>> - issues with deploying patches (this may have changed though - is a
    >>>>> full re-install still needed ?)
    >>>>> - lack of functionality (especially the lack of an integrated email
    >>>>> client) - lack of integration with workflow technologies (e.g.
    >>>>> Sharepoint in our case)
    >>>>> - users tend to hate it especially if they've used any other Office
    >>>>> suite first (and not necessarily Microsoft Office)
    >>>>> (further to the above point, the term "user revolt" was used by IT
    >>>>> management in two of the competitive situations)
    >>>>> - difficulties in developing applications on top of Oo_O
    >>>>> - no Information Rights Management capability (CxO's care about this
    >>>>> in a big way)
    >>>>> - the lack of a big picture vendor roadmap
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That last one was touched on in the Computerworld article. Oo_O may
    >>>>> have
    >>>>> a
    >>>>> roadmap but where does that roadmap fit in with <insert your favourite
    >>>>> Linux disto here>'s roadmap and that of your messaging infrastructure
    >>>>> vendor of choice etc etc ? No roadmap is 100% set in stone (least of
    >>>>> all
    >>>>> ours) but, from conversations I've had with a large number of
    >>>>> management
    >>>>> and IT people here in NZ, it is very apparent that a "single throat to
    >>>>> choke" is seen as one of Microsoft's competitive advantages by many of
    >>>>> them.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The reality is that we win these engagements because of a varying mix
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> functionality, integration, technology vision and support backed up by
    >>>>> a
    >>>>> hard-working partner channel which we've spent years nurturing here in
    >>>>> NZ.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> HTH
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>
    >>>> Jesus that took some prodding didnt it...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by
    >>>> 90
    >>>> degrees and try again..."
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Apologies if I exceeded your attention span.

    >>
    >> Apologies if getting you to explain your own companies policy causes you
    >> to
    >> squirm.
    >> --
    >> Q: What is very old, used by farmers, and obeys the fundamental theorem
    >> of arithmetic?
    >> A: An antique tractorisation domain.
    >>

    >
    > What on earth makes you think I'm squirming ? Once again I would make the
    > point about your self-denial (but, of course, you'd deny you're suffering
    > from it) :)


    A simple question about Microsofts policy draws this response, gosh I see
    how you look after customers
    </sarcasm>
    --
    Q: Why do you never hear the number 288 on television?
    A: It's two gross.
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #17
  18. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7pch9$tp8$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >> news:f7pa73$ofb$...
    >>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the
    >>>> open
    >>>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in
    >>>> these
    >>>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could
    >>>> focus
    >>>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as this
    >>>> doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy hints for
    >>>> what they're worth...
    >>>
    >>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    >>> compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of
    >>> total machines being compromised"
    >>> Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    >>> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Sorry, I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about (hey, if it's good
    >> enough for you it's good enough for me)

    >
    > Good thing google exists eh :)
    >
    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/4733d79d2c118f72?dmode=source&hl=en
    >
    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/a388b98116275fb6?dmode=source&hl=en
    > --
    > "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    > degrees and try again..."
    >


    Wow, you're referring back to posts from 2004 and 2005. Those were the days
    huh ? Like you, I have no idea of the point you're trying to make.
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #18
  19. Shane

    Shane Guest

    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:

    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:f7pch9$tp8$...
    >> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>> news:f7pa73$ofb$...
    >>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the
    >>>>> open
    >>>>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in
    >>>>> these
    >>>>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could
    >>>>> focus
    >>>>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as
    >>>>> this doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy
    >>>>> hints for what they're worth...
    >>>>
    >>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    >>>> compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of
    >>>> total machines being compromised"
    >>>> Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    >>>> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Sorry, I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about (hey, if it's good
    >>> enough for you it's good enough for me)

    >>
    >> Good thing google exists eh :)
    >>
    >>

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/4733d79d2c118f72?dmode=source&hl=en
    >>
    >>

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/a388b98116275fb6?dmode=source&hl=en
    >> --
    >> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by 90
    >> degrees and try again..."
    >>

    >
    > Wow, you're referring back to posts from 2004 and 2005. Those were the
    > days huh ? Like you, I have no idea of the point you're trying to make.


    Go back and read my posts then..
    Its that simple, or is the simplicity the problem?

    --
    Q: Why do mathematicians often confuse Christmas and Halloween?
    A: Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.
     
    Shane, Jul 20, 2007
    #19
  20. "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:f7pcvv$tp8$...
    > Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >> news:f7pch9$tp8$...
    >>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    >>>> news:f7pa73$ofb$...
    >>>>> Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> While we're on this subject, can I just say that I love the way the
    >>>>>> open
    >>>>>> source community tends to look for conspiracies and skulduggery in
    >>>>>> these
    >>>>>> competitive situations when the most constructive thing they could
    >>>>>> focus
    >>>>>> their efforts on is some good, healthy self-criticality. Seeing as
    >>>>>> this doesn't seem to be happening I'm happy to provide a few handy
    >>>>>> hints for what they're worth...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Brett Roberts
    >>>>>> Microsoft NZ
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I forgot to ask, are you still peddling the "IIS is less likely to be
    >>>>> compromised based on one set of figures that dont show percentage of
    >>>>> total machines being compromised"
    >>>>> Thats what self-criticality is all about yeah?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito with a rock climber?
    >>>>> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a scalar.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Sorry, I have no idea what you're rabbiting on about (hey, if it's good
    >>>> enough for you it's good enough for me)
    >>>
    >>> Good thing google exists eh :)
    >>>
    >>>

    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/4733d79d2c118f72?dmode=source&hl=en
    >>>
    >>>

    > http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/msg/a388b98116275fb6?dmode=source&hl=en
    >>> --
    >>> "The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please, rotate your phone by
    >>> 90
    >>> degrees and try again..."
    >>>

    >>
    >> Wow, you're referring back to posts from 2004 and 2005. Those were the
    >> days huh ? Like you, I have no idea of the point you're trying to make.

    >
    > Go back and read my posts then..
    > Its that simple, or is the simplicity the problem?
    >
    > --
    > Q: Why do mathematicians often confuse Christmas and Halloween?
    > A: Because Oct 31 = Dec 25.
    >


    Happy to have an ongoing conversation here or via email if you're willing to
    use a real name. Otherwise I suspect conversing with froggies and Shanes
    will be an exercise in futility. I refuse to enter a battle of wits with an
    unarmed person.
     
    Brett Roberts, Microsoft NZ, Jul 20, 2007
    #20
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