OE does not indent some replies

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by pimpom, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. pimpom

    pimpom Guest

    I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts in
    newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But occasionally
    it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes no
    difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with the
    previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    please help out? TIA.
    pimpom, Nov 26, 2008
    #1
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  2. pimpom

    Walter Guest

    pimpom wrote:

    > I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts in
    > newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    > quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But occasionally
    > it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes no
    > difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with the
    > previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    > please help out? TIA.


    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
    Walter, Nov 26, 2008
    #2
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  3. pimpom wrote:

    > I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts in
    > newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of quoted
    > text lines and it works most of the time. But occasionally it refuses
    > to indent the lines. Changing the character makes no difference. I
    > guessed that it may have something to do with the previous poster's
    > news reader or with its settings. Can anyone please help out? TIA.


    You are probably experiencing this when replying to a Google Groper's
    post. The problem is both a problem with GG (using quoted-printable) and
    with your newsreader.

    Get a better one.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 26, 2008
    #3
  4. pimpom

    pimpom Guest

    Walter wrote:
    > pimpom wrote:
    >
    >> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts
    >> in
    >> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    >> quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But
    >> occasionally
    >> it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes
    >> no
    >> difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with
    >> the
    >> previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    >> please help out? TIA.

    >
    > http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/


    It works. THANKS.
    pimpom, Nov 26, 2008
    #4
  5. pimpom

    Walter Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > pimpom wrote:
    >
    >> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts in
    >> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of quoted
    >> text lines and it works most of the time. But occasionally it refuses
    >> to indent the lines. Changing the character makes no difference. I
    >> guessed that it may have something to do with the previous poster's
    >> news reader or with its settings. Can anyone please help out? TIA.

    >
    > You are probably experiencing this when replying to a Google Groper's
    > post. The problem is both a problem with GG (using quoted-printable)
    > and with your newsreader.
    >
    > Get a better one.


    Or. As I previously stated, s/he could get OE Quotefix. I've been using it
    for years.
    Walter, Nov 26, 2008
    #5
  6. pimpom

    Walter Guest

    pimpom wrote:

    > Walter wrote:
    >> pimpom wrote:
    >>
    >>> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts
    >>> in
    >>> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    >>> quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But
    >>> occasionally
    >>> it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes
    >>> no
    >>> difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with
    >>> the
    >>> previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    >>> please help out? TIA.

    >>
    >> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

    >
    > It works. THANKS.


    Welcome
    Walter, Nov 26, 2008
    #6
  7. pimpom

    VanguardLH Guest

    pimpom wrote:

    > I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts in
    > newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    > quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But occasionally
    > it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes no
    > difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with the
    > previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    > please help out? TIA.


    RFCs exist to define how to encode a message using quoted-printable
    format. That format demarks content based on paragraphs so it is one
    very long logically long line per paragraph (while the lines are
    physically kept short within the raw source of the message itself). If
    it weren't for automatic line-wrap in whatever newsreader that you use,
    you would see one really long line per paragraph. quoted-printable
    format is NOT recommended for Usenet post yet even some MVPs use it
    (they're not interested in readibility by all by whatever they happen to
    like due to however their newsreader presents their post to them).

    There is no RFC that defines how to slice up the long lines per
    paragraph into physically shorter lines so any newsreader can view the
    post. That means each newsreader makes an arbitrary choice on how to
    slice up the long line usually based on some configuration settings. OE
    doesn't break up the long line and why you only see the quoting
    character for the long line for the paragraph. So that the long line
    wraps is only because the window in which the text is displayed has an
    attribute enable to automatic wrap long lines.

    Posters should be berated for using quoted-printable format. Google
    Groupers may end up using quoted-printable format but it isn't their
    choice. Sometimes Google decides to use quoted-printable format (but I
    haven't see a pattern to know what criteria will use it), sometimes not.
    Anyone that is using a local newsreader client should configure it to
    NOT use quoted-printable format. Alas, the defaults for many
    combo-function newsreaders use quoted-printable format for both e-mails
    and newsgroups by default and users are often too lazy to bother looking
    at the program's options or they're unaware of the consequences of using
    quoted-printable format. It looks okay to them so they figure it must
    be okay for everyone else. Ego overrides logic: they want others to
    read their posts but they don't care if others can easily view their
    posts.
    VanguardLH, Nov 26, 2008
    #7
  8. pimpom

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:15:21 -0500, "Walter" <>
    wrote:

    >Or. As I previously stated, s/he could get OE Quotefix. I've been using it
    >for years.


    Which is like putting a band-aid on herpes.....
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
    Evan Platt, Nov 26, 2008
    #8
  9. pimpom

    Walter Guest

    Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:15:21 -0500, "Walter" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Or. As I previously stated, s/he could get OE Quotefix. I've been
    >> using it for years.

    >
    > Which is like putting a band-aid on herpes.....


    Yeah, and everybody who asks a question about IE should get Firefox or
    Opera. And everybody having a problem with Windows should switch to Linux
    or buy a Mac, right?
    Walter, Nov 26, 2008
    #9
  10. pimpom

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:27:35 -0500, "Walter" <>
    wrote:

    >Yeah, and everybody who asks a question about IE should get Firefox or
    >Opera.


    IE is good for sites you ABSOLUTELY trust or if you know how to
    properly set up your security settings. Otherwise, might as well lick
    food off the street.

    >And everybody having a problem with Windows should switch to Linux
    >or buy a Mac, right?


    No. I'm not a big Windows fan, but it runs the applications I need.
    The problem is, out of the box, it's insecure.
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
    Evan Platt, Nov 26, 2008
    #10
  11. pimpom

    pimpom Guest

    VanguardLH wrote:
    > pimpom wrote:
    >
    >> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts
    >> in
    >> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    >> quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But
    >> occasionally
    >> it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes
    >> no
    >> difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with
    >> the
    >> previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    >> please help out? TIA.

    >
    > RFCs exist to define how to encode a message using
    > quoted-printable
    > format. That format demarks content based on paragraphs so it
    > is one
    > very long logically long line per paragraph (while the lines
    > are
    > physically kept short within the raw source of the message
    > itself).
    > If it weren't for automatic line-wrap in whatever newsreader
    > that you
    > use, you would see one really long line per paragraph.
    > quoted-printable format is NOT recommended for Usenet post yet
    > even
    > some MVPs use it (they're not interested in readibility by all
    > by
    > whatever they happen to like due to however their newsreader
    > presents
    > their post to them).
    >
    > There is no RFC that defines how to slice up the long lines per
    > paragraph into physically shorter lines so any newsreader can
    > view the
    > post. That means each newsreader makes an arbitrary choice on
    > how to
    > slice up the long line usually based on some configuration
    > settings.
    > OE doesn't break up the long line and why you only see the
    > quoting
    > character for the long line for the paragraph. So that the
    > long line
    > wraps is only because the window in which the text is displayed
    > has an
    > attribute enable to automatic wrap long lines.
    >
    > Posters should be berated for using quoted-printable format.
    > Google
    > Groupers may end up using quoted-printable format but it isn't
    > their
    > choice. Sometimes Google decides to use quoted-printable
    > format (but
    > I haven't see a pattern to know what criteria will use it),
    > sometimes
    > not. Anyone that is using a local newsreader client should
    > configure
    > it to NOT use quoted-printable format. Alas, the defaults for
    > many
    > combo-function newsreaders use quoted-printable format for both
    > e-mails and newsgroups by default and users are often too lazy
    > to
    > bother looking at the program's options or they're unaware of
    > the
    > consequences of using quoted-printable format. It looks okay
    > to them
    > so they figure it must be okay for everyone else. Ego
    > overrides
    > logic: they want others to read their posts but they don't care
    > if
    > others can easily view their posts.


    Thanks for the explanation. But before you label everyone using
    quoted-printable format as being lazy or egoistic, you should
    consider the fact that not everyone who uses a computer or posts
    in a newsgroup understands these things. I, for one, am very good
    at my chosen profession and am quite ok with computers *in some
    areas*, but the latter is not my field of expertise. And though I
    had some vague general understanding of MIME and quoted printable
    encoding, its effect on quoting with OE had simply not crossed my
    mind.
    pimpom, Nov 26, 2008
    #11
  12. pimpom

    Walter Guest

    Evan Platt wrote:

    > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:27:35 -0500, "Walter" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Yeah, and everybody who asks a question about IE should get Firefox
    >> or Opera.

    >
    > IE is good for sites you ABSOLUTELY trust or if you know how to
    > properly set up your security settings. Otherwise, might as well lick
    > food off the street.
    >
    >> And everybody having a problem with Windows should switch to Linux
    >> or buy a Mac, right?

    >
    > No. I'm not a big Windows fan, but it runs the applications I need.
    > The problem is, out of the box, it's insecure.


    A browser and/or an OSand/or an email client is sometimes a matter of
    choice, and sometimes not. The OP asked a question about how to fix quoting
    with OE which indicated to me there was at least some 'clue' there since the
    OP recognized the fact that it was broken in the first place. I gave the
    best possible answer I could based on my personal experience with the
    software I recommended.

    The issue of "security" hadn't been raised until now, ergo there was no need
    for me to address it. But since you brought it up, the use of OE Quotefix
    has nothing to do with security. You are just as 'secure' after you install
    it, as you were before.
    Walter, Nov 26, 2008
    #12
  13. Walter wrote:

    > Evan Platt wrote:
    >> "Walter" wrote:
    >>> Or. As I previously stated, s/he could get OE Quotefix. I've been
    >>> using it for years.

    >>
    >> Which is like putting a band-aid on herpes.....

    >
    > Yeah, and everybody who asks a question about IE should get Firefox
    > or Opera. And everybody having a problem with Windows should switch
    > to Linux or buy a Mac, right?


    Hey! Great ideas you've got there! I shudda thought of that myself.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 26, 2008
    #13
  14. Walter wrote:
    > pimpom wrote:
    >
    >> Walter wrote:
    >>> pimpom wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts
    >>>> in
    >>>> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    >>>> quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But
    >>>> occasionally
    >>>> it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes
    >>>> no
    >>>> difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with
    >>>> the
    >>>> previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    >>>> please help out? TIA.
    >>> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

    >> It works. THANKS.

    >
    > Welcome
    >

    Proof that M$ hates its userbase.
    Having to patch an app thats been around that long with 3rd party code
    is fucking hilarious :)

    It *is* a nice patch though...
    §ñühw¤£f, Nov 26, 2008
    #14
  15. pimpom

    VanguardLH Guest

    pimpom wrote:

    > VanguardLH wrote:
    >> pimpom wrote:
    >>
    >>> I use Outlook Express 6 with Win XP SP3. For replies to posts
    >>> in
    >>> newsgroups, I use the default character > for indentation of
    >>> quoted text lines and it works most of the time. But
    >>> occasionally
    >>> it refuses to indent the lines. Changing the character makes
    >>> no
    >>> difference. I guessed that it may have something to do with
    >>> the
    >>> previous poster's news reader or with its settings. Can anyone
    >>> please help out? TIA.

    >>
    >> RFCs exist to define how to encode a message using
    >> quoted-printable
    >> format. That format demarks content based on paragraphs so it
    >> is one
    >> very long logically long line per paragraph (while the lines
    >> are
    >> physically kept short within the raw source of the message
    >> itself).
    >> If it weren't for automatic line-wrap in whatever newsreader
    >> that you
    >> use, you would see one really long line per paragraph.
    >> quoted-printable format is NOT recommended for Usenet post yet
    >> even
    >> some MVPs use it (they're not interested in readibility by all
    >> by
    >> whatever they happen to like due to however their newsreader
    >> presents
    >> their post to them).
    >>
    >> There is no RFC that defines how to slice up the long lines per
    >> paragraph into physically shorter lines so any newsreader can
    >> view the
    >> post. That means each newsreader makes an arbitrary choice on
    >> how to
    >> slice up the long line usually based on some configuration
    >> settings.
    >> OE doesn't break up the long line and why you only see the
    >> quoting
    >> character for the long line for the paragraph. So that the
    >> long line
    >> wraps is only because the window in which the text is displayed
    >> has an
    >> attribute enable to automatic wrap long lines.
    >>
    >> Posters should be berated for using quoted-printable format.
    >> Google
    >> Groupers may end up using quoted-printable format but it isn't
    >> their
    >> choice. Sometimes Google decides to use quoted-printable
    >> format (but
    >> I haven't see a pattern to know what criteria will use it),
    >> sometimes
    >> not. Anyone that is using a local newsreader client should
    >> configure
    >> it to NOT use quoted-printable format. Alas, the defaults for
    >> many
    >> combo-function newsreaders use quoted-printable format for both
    >> e-mails and newsgroups by default and users are often too lazy
    >> to
    >> bother looking at the program's options or they're unaware of
    >> the
    >> consequences of using quoted-printable format. It looks okay
    >> to them
    >> so they figure it must be okay for everyone else. Ego
    >> overrides
    >> logic: they want others to read their posts but they don't care
    >> if
    >> others can easily view their posts.

    >
    > Thanks for the explanation. But before you label everyone using
    > quoted-printable format as being lazy or egoistic, you should
    > consider the fact that not everyone who uses a computer or posts
    > in a newsgroup understands these things. I, for one, am very good
    > at my chosen profession and am quite ok with computers *in some
    > areas*, but the latter is not my field of expertise. And though I
    > had some vague general understanding of MIME and quoted printable
    > encoding, its effect on quoting with OE had simply not crossed my
    > mind.


    That's why I say berate them for using quoted-printable format (or call
    it [gently] prodding them, or whatever euphemism you like). They won't
    know unless you tell them. Below is the typical rant prefixed before my
    reply for anyone using quoted-printable format.


    --- REPLY SEPARATOR ---
    Only required because above poster used QUOTED-PRINTABLE format.
    When posting to newsgroups, do NOT use quoted-printable format.

    * Not all NNTP clients handle quoted-printable format.
    - Some users still use console-mode (non-GUI) NNTP clients.
    - The long lines may not wrap properly.
    - Scrolling is needed if the long lines do not get wrapped.
    - The long line may get truncated at the window's width.
    - Quoted-printable format uses special character sequences for
    logical formatting. View the raw source of your post. Text-
    only clients may show that encoding when viewing your post.
    * Quoting levels get mangled, especially for multiple replies.
    * In replies, there is no clear delineation of content.
    - Cannot tell what content is from the original poster and
    what is from the respondent.
    - Makes impossible to determine who said what when a reply
    inserts comments inline with the quoted content.

    Also, do *not* use HTML format. Post using plain-text format.

    ---[end of comments]---

    If they appear to be a complete newbie to Usenet then I might add:

    What is Usenet:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups
    http://www.masonicinfo.com/newsgroups.htm
    http://www.mcfedries.com/Ramblings/usenet-primer.asp

    How to post to newsgroups:
    http://66.39.69.143/goodpost.htm
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
    http://users.tpg.com.au/bzyhjr/liszt.html
    http://www.mugsy.org/asa_faq/getting_along/usenet.shtml

    In addition:
    - Do NOT describe an error message.
    - Do NOT summarize an error message.
    - Do NOT paraphrase an error message.
    - Do NOT truncate an error message.
    - Do show the ENTIRE message (but munge/star out personal info,
    like your username).
    VanguardLH, Nov 27, 2008
    #15
  16. pimpom

    Cork Soaker Guest

    Walter wrote:
    > Evan Platt wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:15:21 -0500, "Walter" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Or. As I previously stated, s/he could get OE Quotefix. I've been
    >>> using it for years.

    >> Which is like putting a band-aid on herpes.....

    >
    > Yeah, and everybody who asks a question about IE should get Firefox or
    > Opera. And everybody having a problem with Windows should switch to Linux
    > or buy a Mac, right?
    >
    >
    >



    Now you're getting it!
    Cork Soaker, Nov 28, 2008
    #16
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