NZ Usenet Survey

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Simon Lyall, Feb 19, 2006.

  1. Simon Lyall

    Simon Lyall Guest

    I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.

    Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.

    1. Name of Provider:

    2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):

    3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).

    (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    (c) Alias to another Server:
    If yes that what is the upstream Server?:

    4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    (a) Total number of groups:
    (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :
    (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :
    (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :
    (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :


    --
    Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/
    "Inside me Im Screaming, Nobody pays any attention." | eMT.

    And tonight's luser gets to read the FAQ in the style of my choosing.
    Simon Lyall, Feb 19, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Simon Lyall

    Shane Guest

    On 2006-02-19, Simon Lyall <> wrote:
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:
    >

    (I'll do the easy ones :)
    Ihug + Xtra
    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):
    >

    Yes
    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:

    No idea on the feeds for either (hmm maybe this wasnt so easy)
    But,
    news.xtra.co.nz is Twister IIRC
    and
    news.akl.ihug.co.nz ( alias for lust.ihug.co.nz ) is
    InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.4.2

    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    >
    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    > (a) Total number of groups:
    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :
    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :

    The new l33t spelling is Juarez maaaaaaan :)

    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    >
    >

    But Ive never looked for any of those filetypes on usenet (Honest)
    Shane, Feb 19, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Simon Lyall wrote:
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:


    Orcon

    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):


    Yes

    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:


    b - DNews, sucking mode. Upstream posts use IHAVE.

    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).


    Some standard naming rules would help here.

    > (a) Total number of groups:


    134,516

    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :


    *erotica*

    1558

    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :


    *bina*pictures,*pictures*bina*,!*erotica*,!*sex*,!*porn*

    35

    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :


    *bina*pictures,*pictures*bina* minus (40) !*erotica*,!*sex*,!*porn* (35)

    5

    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :


    *warez*bina*,*bina*warez*

    209

    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :


    *bina*mp3*,*mp3*bina*

    491

    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :


    *bina*tv,*tv*bina*,*bina*movie*,*movie*bina*

    202

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Feb 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Simon Lyall

    Simon Lyall Guest

    In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).

    >Some standard naming rules would help here.


    I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a remotely
    useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they prove most of
    them, you can read them and most of the tracks/albums posted are fairly
    complete.

    --
    Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/
    "Inside me Im Screaming, Nobody pays any attention." | eMT.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
    relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

    - Richard Feynman
    Simon Lyall, Feb 19, 2006
    #4
  5. Simon Lyall wrote:
    > In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >>> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).

    >> Some standard naming rules would help here.

    >
    > I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a remotely
    > useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they prove most of
    > them, you can read them and most of the tracks/albums posted are fairly
    > complete.


    Perhaps this would be an easier survey if you posted a tool to automate
    the task?

    A simple survey might be to just send the counts of messages in each
    group, but that is often incorrect, and there is no way to tell how old
    the messages are, or if completion is anything like it should be.

    You could post a rule file for NNTPScan
    (http://www.nntptool.gompy.net/NNTPScan/index.html), and ask everyone to
    send you the results zipped up?

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Feb 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Simon Lyall

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <dt8lgk$8b2$>,
    says...
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:


    Paradise (cable)

    >
    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):


    Yes

    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).


    a - I presume.

    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:


    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    > (a) Total number of groups:


    79,884 is my count

    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :


    Presumably

    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :


    58 contain the word 'porn'

    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :


    12 contain the word 'binary' (but 2,249 contain the word 'binaries')

    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :


    96 contain the word 'warez'

    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :


    96 contain the word 'mp3'

    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    >


    218 contain 'movie', 13 contain 'binaries.tv'

    --
    Duncan
    Dave Doe, Feb 19, 2006
    #6
  7. Simon Lyall

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Simon Lyall wrote:
    > In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >>> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).

    >> Some standard naming rules would help here.

    >
    > I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a remotely
    > useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they prove most of
    > them, you can read them and most of the tracks/albums posted are
    > fairly complete.


    That's not a survey, it's a contract. You're talking a hell of a lot of time
    spent looking at different groups, some of which 'sucking' servers will have
    to download and then be allowed a day or two to stabilise.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Feb 19, 2006
    #7
  8. Simon Lyall

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Dave Doe <> wrote in news:MPG.1e62d9e64fa3c194989be2
    @news.paradise.net.nz:

    > 12 contain the word 'binary' (but 2,249 contain the word 'binaries')
    >
    >> (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :

    >
    > 96 contain the word 'warez'
    >
    >> (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :

    >
    > 96 contain the word 'mp3'
    >
    >> (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    >>

    >
    > 218 contain 'movie', 13 contain 'binaries.tv'
    >
    > --
    > Duncan
    >


    I have found that the retention on any of the binaries is terrible last
    time I looked. 90% was incomplete.
    IMHO, the paradise news server is so clamped down with regards to storage
    that it is only good at small binaries and text.

    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Feb 19, 2006
    #8
  9. ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Simon Lyall wrote:
    >> In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >>>> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    >>> Some standard naming rules would help here.

    >> I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a remotely
    >> useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they prove most of
    >> them, you can read them and most of the tracks/albums posted are
    >> fairly complete.

    >
    > That's not a survey, it's a contract. You're talking a hell of a lot of time
    > spent looking at different groups, some of which 'sucking' servers will have
    > to download and then be allowed a day or two to stabilise.


    The 'high' and 'low' message numbers, and estimated message count, can
    be quickly gathered using the 'list' command. Unfortunately this is
    often inaccurate (the 'low' value in particular may refer to messages
    that have been long since removed), and doesn't tell you how old the
    messages are, or how many of them are content from that group or simply
    cross posts.

    The issue with sucking feeds aside, a survey of completion should be
    done over a number of days, or by analysis of the recent messages in the
    group.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Feb 19, 2006
    #9
  10. Simon Lyall

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <Xns976FD93D23A9Cdaveytaynospamplshot@203.97.37.6>,
    says...
    > Dave Doe <> wrote in news:MPG.1e62d9e64fa3c194989be2
    > @news.paradise.net.nz:
    >
    > > 12 contain the word 'binary' (but 2,249 contain the word 'binaries')
    > >
    > >> (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :

    > >
    > > 96 contain the word 'warez'
    > >
    > >> (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :

    > >
    > > 96 contain the word 'mp3'
    > >
    > >> (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > >>

    > >
    > > 218 contain 'movie', 13 contain 'binaries.tv'
    > >
    > > --
    > > Duncan
    > >

    >
    > I have found that the retention on any of the binaries is terrible last
    > time I looked. 90% was incomplete.
    > IMHO, the paradise news server is so clamped down with regards to storage
    > that it is only good at small binaries and text.


    Aren't they all??? Certainly warez, movies and vids are going to be
    terrible as a result (missing split messages making up the 'whatever'
    yer trying to get). For pics, I found an aviation pic NG was actually
    quite good, though it was a few years back now.

    Hey I've been with Ihug, Xtra, IBMnet and Compuserve previously - and
    they're all as bad, if not worse (w' the exception of CompuServe - which
    doesn't apply anyway, as they had their own system before they
    "interneted" it.

    Paradise's newsserver is miles ahead of any of the other ISP's mentioned
    above - though yep, I'm sure you're right re retention.

    --
    Duncan
    Dave Doe, Feb 19, 2006
    #10
  11. Simon Lyall

    David Guest

    Simon Lyall wrote:
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:
    >

    Xtra
    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):

    Yes
    >
    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:

    (a)
    >
    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    > (a) Total number of groups:

    52665
    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :

    Dunno, don't care
    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :

    no binary groups whatsoever AFAIK
    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :

    ditto
    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :

    ""
    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :

    same
    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    >

    same thing
    >
    David, Feb 19, 2006
    #11
  12. Simon Lyall

    Mark C Guest

    Simon Lyall <> wrote in
    news:dt8s87$9fa$:

    > In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >>> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).

    >>Some standard naming rules would help here.

    >
    > I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a
    > remotely useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they
    > prove most of them, you can read them and most of the
    > tracks/albums posted are fairly complete.


    Orcon.
    Same as 'The Other Guy' said.

    'small' picture groups and discussion groups tend to be quite
    complete.

    Video and other large binaries are very incomplete or empty.

    AFAIK, it's all down to how the Orcon news software works.
    Their software is DNews.
    If a subscriber downloads from a group, that group gets added to a
    list. The subscriber gets a message "group download in progress..."
    Articles are downloaded from Orcon's upstream feed for each group on
    the list in round-robin fashion. When it's a group's turn, DNews
    downloads for a maximum number of articles or a max total byte count,
    whichever happens first, then moves onto the next group.
    At one stage, Orcon said they were downloading at 3mbps from their
    upstream feeds.
    Groups with a large volume of posts will be very incomplete, because
    their allocated portion of download is not high enough to keep up
    with new posts.
    Groups with a small volume of posts can be quite complete.
    I think there is also a maximum article size limit.

    Mark
    Mark C, Feb 19, 2006
    #12
  13. Simon Lyall

    Mark C Guest

    Simon Lyall <> wrote in
    news:dt8lgk$8b2$:

    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers
    > actually provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main
    > providers including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet,
    > slingshot, actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and
    > Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:


    Orcon.

    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):


    Y

    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:


    (a)
    Or so I thought...
    'The Other Guy' says (b)...

    The other questions same as The Other Guy said.
    Mark C, Feb 19, 2006
    #13
  14. Simon Lyall

    ~misfit~ Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Simon Lyall wrote:
    >>> In nz.net.admin The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >>>>> 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    >>>> Some standard naming rules would help here.
    >>> I should have said if they provide those sort of groups in a
    >>> remotely useable state. So for the mp3 groups is roughly if they
    >>> prove most of them, you can read them and most of the
    >>> tracks/albums posted are fairly complete.

    >>
    >> That's not a survey, it's a contract. You're talking a hell of a lot
    >> of time spent looking at different groups, some of which 'sucking'
    >> servers will have to download and then be allowed a day or two to
    >> stabilise.

    >
    > The 'high' and 'low' message numbers, and estimated message count, can
    > be quickly gathered using the 'list' command. Unfortunately this is
    > often inaccurate (the 'low' value in particular may refer to messages
    > that have been long since removed), and doesn't tell you how old the
    > messages are, or how many of them are content from that group or
    > simply cross posts.
    >
    > The issue with sucking feeds aside, a survey of completion should be
    > done over a number of days, or by analysis of the recent messages in
    > the group.


    Agreed. Unfortunately I don't subscribe to any of the types of groups
    mentioned and nobody else from Actrix has replied. (That I've seen) So far,
    Actrix's NNTP server seems just like Orcon's. "Group Download in Progress"
    message on first subscribing.... I don't know how to tell how many groups
    available with OE.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Feb 19, 2006
    #14
  15. Simon Lyall

    russell Guest

    Mark C <> wrote in
    news:43f85483$0$4285$:

    > Simon Lyall <> wrote in
    > news:dt8lgk$8b2$:
    >
    >> I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers
    >> actually provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main
    >> providers including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet,
    >> slingshot, actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and
    >> Inspire.
    >>
    >> Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >>
    >> 1. Name of Provider:

    >
    > Orcon.
    >
    >> 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):

    >
    > Y
    >
    >> 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >>
    >> (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:

    >
    > (a)
    > Or so I thought...
    > 'The Other Guy' says (b)...
    >
    > The other questions same as The Other Guy said.


    Thanks Mark C for explaining how Dnews works.

    Do Orcon still use Giganews inconjunction with DNews
    russell, Feb 19, 2006
    #15
  16. Simon Lyall

    El Penguino Guest

    On 19 Feb 2006 02:35:00 GMT, Simon Lyall <>
    wrote:

    >I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    >provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers


    Maxnet provides the binary newsgroups in name only, which seems a
    cop-out to me.

    I wouldn't feel so aggrieved but a customer service rep of theirs told
    me they carried them before I signed up !! I dont think he knew what
    he was talking about at the time ( well, there's a first !).

    Cheers,
    El P
    El Penguino, Feb 19, 2006
    #16
  17. Simon Lyall

    Mark C Guest

    russell <> wrote in
    news:Xns9770B57D3B62russellwmailandnewsc@60.234.1.32:

    > Do Orcon still use Giganews inconjunction with DNews?


    I sampled a couple-dozen or so headers, and it seems that most (all?)
    large articles (binaries) are coming via Giganews, and most small
    articles (text, non-NZ) are coming from Octanews (even for text
    articles originally posted via Giganews).
    (One binary article did come from Octanews.)
    Mark C, Feb 19, 2006
    #17
  18. "Mark C" <> wrote in message
    news:43f8f3ab$0$3496$...
    > russell <> wrote in
    > news:Xns9770B57D3B62russellwmailandnewsc@60.234.1.32:
    >
    >> Do Orcon still use Giganews inconjunction with DNews?

    >
    > I sampled a couple-dozen or so headers, and it seems that most (all?)
    > large articles (binaries) are coming via Giganews, and most small
    > articles (text, non-NZ) are coming from Octanews (even for text
    > articles originally posted via Giganews).


    We have quite a number of peers we get the articles from . Whatever
    comes in first from whatever peer gets put in 1st into the news spool.
    Peers which have only text articles usually will feed the non-binary
    groups usually first.

    Thanks
    Craig Whitmore
    Orcon Internet Ltd
    Craig Whitmore, Feb 19, 2006
    #18
  19. Simon Lyall

    thing2 Guest

    Simon Lyall wrote:
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:
    >
    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):
    >
    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).
    >
    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    >
    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    > (a) Total number of groups:
    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :
    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :
    >
    >


    This is a very technical / in depth Q, at least Q3 is....

    You could have also asked, does it work,

    For Paradise and Clear I could answer, not usually.....

    regards

    Thing
    thing2, Feb 20, 2006
    #19
  20. Simon Lyall

    thing2 Guest

    Simon Lyall wrote:
    > I'm doing a little survey on what the various NZ providers actually
    > provide in a Usenet Service. I'd like to cover the main providers
    > including xtra, ihug, clear, paradise, orcon, maxnet, slingshot,
    > actrix, quicksilver, World Net, Kiwi Online and Inspire.
    >
    > Email or Post. I'll do a summary if I get enough replies.
    >
    > 1. Name of Provider:


    Clear.

    >
    > 2. Do they provide Usenet (Y/N):


    Yes, on an intermittant basis

    >
    > 3. If Yes, How? ( Pick one of the below).


    Looks like (a)

    > (a) Their Own Server with it's own feed:
    > (b) A Proxy Server pointing at another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    > (c) Alias to another Server:
    > If yes that what is the upstream Server?:
    >
    > 4. Which groups? (Y/N for each).
    > (a) Total number of groups:
    > (b) Erotica discussion groups? (Y/N) :
    > (c) non-Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (d) Porn picture binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (e) Warez binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (f) mp3 binary groups? (Y/N) :
    > (g) movie/tv binary groups? (Y/N) :


    No idea...

    regards

    Thing
    thing2, Feb 20, 2006
    #20
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    VanguardLH
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