NZ Petrol Firms are Ripping us off.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by XP, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. XP

    XP Guest

    Just heard on the New that Petrol is going up because of the US Hurricane

    But we have a 90 Day stock here, and that new price would not hit here for
    some Months and it was Only the US price.


    Plus on the BBC World news it just stated it was a Blip and the price went
    back down to what it was before.

    Even the DOM listed it as a Blip..

    Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about this,
    as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of this..


    Competition just does not work here at all.
     
    XP, Aug 31, 2005
    #1
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  2. XP

    Redbaiter Guest

    XP says

    >
    > Competition just does not work here at all.
    >

    Another stupid commie.. **** off moron, there's too many of your
    braindead ilk posting their boring clapped out commie shit here
    as it is..

    Get you buddy Klark to stop taxing petrol at rip off rates and
    using the money to buy the votes of racists and bludgers rather
    than straight away smearing free enterprise with propaganda you
    leftist dumbfuck..

    The real cost of petrol
    SATURDAY , 24 JANUARY 2004
    By KAREN CHAN

    Nearly everyone takes a hit in the pocket when petrol prices go
    up. But few of those who shelled out an extra $2 for a tank of
    gas after price hikes last week realised that nearly $1 of that
    went to the Government.

    In fact, of the $44.36 it costs to fill a 40-litre tank, $21.71
    will pay for taxes, duties and levies.

    So while much of the public outcry during last week's increase
    was directed at the multinational oil companies that dominate
    the New Zealand market, the extra money flowing into government
    coffers re-ignited ire felt about taxes - not least because
    another 5 cents-a-litre fuel tax has been proposed from April
    next year to help fund the Government's transport strategy.

    Road Transport Forum chief executive Tony Friedlander, who
    speaks for truckies and road transport companies, said as a
    "significant beneficiary" of last week's price hikes through
    goods and services tax, the Government needed to re-think the
    way it uses money raised through fuel.

    "Too great a proportion is being siphoned off for other uses.
    There is absolutely no guarantee the money is going to be spent
    on improving roads," Mr Friedlander said.

    He estimates just 25 per cent of the money raised through fuel
    is spent on roads.

    --------------------

    Big Four oil firms over a barrel - one may quit NZ

    SUNDAY , 18 AUGUST 2002
    By GREG NINNESS

    One of the "Big Four" oil companies could be forced out of New
    Zealand as rising competition erodes profits.

    All the major oil companies operating in New Zealand - Shell,
    BP, Caltex and Mobil - had their profits slashed last year and
    Caltex and Mobil traded at a loss.

    BP's managing director Peter Griffiths said he would not be
    surprised if one of the Big Four quit the New Zealand market in
    the next few years. He would not say which company he thought
    was most likely to pack its bags, but was adamant it would not
    be BP.

    "New Zealand is a very small market and the most isolated OECD
    country in the world. It has the longest supply chain for oil
    companies but the returns from this market are very poor," said
    Griffiths.

    None of the oil companies saw any scope to recover cost
    increases by increasing margins, which meant prices should stay
    keen for the foreseeable future.

    The accounts of the major oil companies show all suffered sharp
    declines in profits as they were unable to pass on higher costs.

    The worst result was posted by Caltex which made a net loss of
    $78.8 million from total revenue of $1.123 billion, compared
    with a net profit of $12m in 2000.

    Caltex, which also owns the Challenge! chain of petrol stations,
    appears to have suffered from a major cost blowout. Sales were
    up $118m while the cost of petroleum products increased $180m
    and total costs rose $220m.

    The company's balance sheet was also hammered. Assets increased
    by $96m to $844m, most of which appears to have been debt funded
    with liabilities rising $231m to $768m. A special dividend of
    $71.5m paid to its overseas parent (compared with an ordinary
    dividend of $12m in 2000) helped reduce total equity to $75.6m
    compared with $211m in 2000.

    Caltex's corporate communications manager, Niall Kramer,
    attributed the company's loss to "a really, really tight market
    with very thin margins".

    He would not comment on the likelihood of one of the "Big Four"
    quitting New Zealand. Asked if Caltex was committed to staying
    here, he said: "We have just been through the Chevron-Texaco
    merger. Nobody has had that discussion."

    Mobil also had its profits squeezed between costs which rose by
    $41m to $1.613b and sales which declined by $3m to $1.573b. This
    produced an operating loss of $25m compared with a profit of
    $28m in 2000. A tax credit of $9.16m and profits from associated
    companies reduced the bottom line loss to $12.2m.

    However, its balance sheet had been strengthened. A $55m drop in
    assets to $589m was more than offset by a $173m decline in
    liabilities, which lifted shareholders' equity by $18m to $235m.

    Mobil has not declared a dividend since 1999 when it sent
    $133.6m back to Texas.

    Spokesman Peter Thornbury said the result reflected the tough
    retail environment and price discounting which had become a
    feature of the market.

    The company was confident it could generate future profits and
    was continuing to invest in facilities such a new service
    stations.

    BP was also squeezed between flat sales and rising costs which
    pushed profits lower, although the company stayed in the black.

    Revenue rose $5m to $1.537b while the cost of petroleum rose
    $12m and total expenses increased by $15m. This reduced net
    profit to $16.7m from $34.6m in 2000.

    The dividend, which was set at $40m in 1999 and 2000 was reduced
    by 75% to $10m.

    BP also strengthened its balance sheet, with assets up $7m to
    $690m and liabilities down by $37m to $553m, lifting
    shareholders' equity to $137m from $93m.

    Shell is by far the biggest player in New Zealand because of its
    huge investments in oil and gas exploration and production, and
    related areas such as chemicals. Compared with petrol retailing
    those activities are extremely profitable and provided Shell
    with healthy revenue.

    In the four years since 1998, Shell has generated revenue of
    $6.3b which had enabled it to declare dividends of $992m.

    But even Shell was not immune from the profit squeeze which
    afflicted its competitors last year.

    Revenue was up $124m to $1.938b while expenses rose $264m to
    $1.8b. Net profit fell from $191m in 2000 to $107.4m last year.
    When activities such as oil and gas production and refining are
    removed, the remaining profit is $31.1m compared with $62.4m in
    2000.

    Shell executive director Bruce Emson said the figures showed
    what the oil industry in this country has been saying for some
    time. "We beat this drum but nobody ever believes us - we are in
    an increasingly competitive marketplace and the performance of
    the industry has been pretty poor compared with previous
    years," he said.

    Emson believed competition would get even tougher. "In New
    Zealand we have increasingly competitive pricing regimes and
    increasingly competitive market players like Gull (in the North
    Island) which operates off a different cost base to the rest of
    us and is a very efficient player. And (supermarket chain)
    Foodstuffs has announced it is getting into petrol retailing
    next year. So competition will continue and I expect for the
    next year or two or maybe even longer, it will keep getting
    tougher."
     
    Redbaiter, Aug 31, 2005
    #2
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  3. XP

    Rob Guest

    "XP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > Just heard on the New that Petrol is going up because of the US Hurricane
    >
    > But we have a 90 Day stock here, and that new price would not hit here

    for
    > some Months and it was Only the US price.
    >
    >
    > Plus on the BBC World news it just stated it was a Blip and the price

    went
    > back down to what it was before.
    >
    > Even the DOM listed it as a Blip..
    >
    > Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about

    this,
    > as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of

    this..
    >
    >
    > Competition just does not work here at all.
    >
    >


    I won't be able to afford to run my computer at this rate!
     
    Rob, Aug 31, 2005
    #3
  4. XP

    Mutley Guest

    XP <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >Just heard on the New that Petrol is going up because of the US Hurricane
    >
    >But we have a 90 Day stock here, and that new price would not hit here for
    >some Months and it was Only the US price.
    >
    >
    >Plus on the BBC World news it just stated it was a Blip and the price went
    >back down to what it was before.
    >
    >Even the DOM listed it as a Blip..
    >
    >Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about this,
    >as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of this..
    >
    >
    >Competition just does not work here at all.
    >


    I wonder the same about the 90 day stock which I believe we had an
    addition 1cent added to the price recently to help the oil companies
    take their stock to 90 days. But hey you do know that the oil
    companies have a fleet of B747s that ever nite fly this new high
    priced fuel to NZ every nite just so that we won't have to use that
    old cheap stuff they flew over last week..
     
    Mutley, Aug 31, 2005
    #4
  5. XP

    dersu Guest

    "XP" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about
    > this,
    > as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of
    > this..
    >

    I agree that it's about time the government did something about the cost of
    fuel. It is not the fuel companies I blame though it is the bloody
    government that is taxing the hell out of the motorist. What the government
    should be doing is reducing the outrageous amount of tax that they are
    stealing from us all with every litre.

    D.
     
    dersu, Aug 31, 2005
    #5
  6. T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:08:35 +1200 when I remembered XP
    <> saying something like this:

    >Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about this,
    >as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of this..


    I reakon. I saw the story in the paper the other day about the dairy
    owner who has the northern most petrol pumps in New Zealand, and he
    was making at least 2 cents a litre off petrol!

    2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    charge those margins on computer parts;)
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Aug 31, 2005
    #6
  7. XP

    MarkH Guest

    Waylon Kenning <> wrote in
    news::

    > I reakon. I saw the story in the paper the other day about the dairy
    > owner who has the northern most petrol pumps in New Zealand, and he
    > was making at least 2 cents a litre off petrol!
    >
    > 2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    > charge those margins on computer parts;)


    Maths not your best subject eh? :)

    I think that you will find it much closer to 1.3%, you were only out by a
    factor of 100.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 16-August-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Aug 31, 2005
    #7
  8. XP

    Harry Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:

    > T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:08:35 +1200 when I remembered XP
    > <> saying something like this:
    >
    >>Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about
    >>this, as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of
    >>this..

    >
    > I reakon. I saw the story in the paper the other day about the dairy
    > owner who has the northern most petrol pumps in New Zealand, and he
    > was making at least 2 cents a litre off petrol!
    >
    > 2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    > charge those margins on computer parts;)
    > --


    That isn't the true margin. Most small petrol retailers also
    adjust their pumps to deliver less fuel than is metered.
    Take a calibrated can to any pump and find out for yourself.
    Most owners will also say "... but it was just checked yesterday ...".

    So while you might grizzle about petrol costing $1.40/liter most
    people are totally unaware that they are actually paying about $1.60/liter.
     
    Harry, Aug 31, 2005
    #8
  9. XP

    Bret Guest

    On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:38:15 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    <> wrote:

    >T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:08:35 +1200 when I remembered XP
    ><> saying something like this:
    >
    >>Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about this,
    >>as all the Petrol firms here are a Cartel and making millions out of this..

    >
    >I reakon. I saw the story in the paper the other day about the dairy
    >owner who has the northern most petrol pumps in New Zealand, and he
    >was making at least 2 cents a litre off petrol!
    >
    >2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    >charge those margins on computer parts;)


    Perhaps you would like to purchase at those margins, cos if you want
    to sell at those margins you will find plenty of customers.
     
    Bret, Aug 31, 2005
    #9
  10. On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:09 +1200, someone purporting to be dersu didst
    scrawl:

    >
    > "XP" <> wrote in message
    > news:...

    *SNIP*
    > government that is taxing the hell out of the motorist. What the government
    > should be doing is reducing the outrageous amount of tax that they are
    > stealing from us all with every litre.
    >

    You realise that if the Government were to remove all taxes except GST
    from petrol, the price would still be over a dollar per litre? Current
    price excluding all tax is almost 89c/L.
    Doing so would, of course, require that the funds generated be made up
    from some other part of the tax base.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Aug 31, 2005
    #10
  11. Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:09 +1200, someone purporting to be dersu didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > >
    > > "XP" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...

    > *SNIP*
    > > government that is taxing the hell out of the motorist. What the government
    > > should be doing is reducing the outrageous amount of tax that they are
    > > stealing from us all with every litre.
    > >

    > You realise that if the Government were to remove all taxes except GST
    > from petrol, the price would still be over a dollar per litre? Current
    > price excluding all tax is almost 89c/L.
    > Doing so would, of course, require that the funds generated be made up
    > from some other part of the tax base.
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole


    So you think that the oil companies are making > $0.11 / Litre?
    > "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    SpamAccountForMe, Aug 31, 2005
    #11
  12. XP

    Thor Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:


    >>

    > You realise that if the Government were to remove all taxes except GST
    > from petrol, the price would still be over a dollar per litre? Current
    > price excluding all tax is almost 89c/L.
    > Doing so would, of course, require that the funds generated be made up
    > from some other part of the tax base.
    >


    My thought is to raise the gst to 15% but take it from power food and fuel


    --
    *~~~~~~~~~~Thor
     
    Thor, Aug 31, 2005
    #12
  13. On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:15:40 -0700, someone purporting to be
    SpamAccountForMe didst scrawl:

    >
    > Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > So you think that the oil companies are making > $0.11 / Litre?

    I've no idea how much they make per litre. But they certainly do alright
    with their hedging against oil and currency fluctuations.
    Price of oil rises by USD3.6/barrel, and the next day the price of petrol
    goes up five cents per litre. Over the next two days of trading the
    movement of the barrel price and the USD/NZD exchange rate adds an extra
    two cents per litre to the gross margin. But the price of petrol doesn't
    go back down.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Aug 31, 2005
    #13
  14. Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:15:40 -0700, someone purporting to be
    > SpamAccountForMe didst scrawl:
    >
    > >
    > > Matthew Poole wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    > > So you think that the oil companies are making > $0.11 / Litre?

    > I've no idea how much they make per litre. But they certainly do alright
    > with their hedging against oil and currency fluctuations.
    > Price of oil rises by USD3.6/barrel, and the next day the price of petrol
    > goes up five cents per litre. Over the next two days of trading the
    > movement of the barrel price and the USD/NZD exchange rate adds an extra
    > two cents per litre to the gross margin. But the price of petrol doesn't
    > go back down.
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole
    > "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."


    They make more out of selling convenience foods & cigarrettes than they
    do out of petrol margins.
     
    SpamAccountForMe, Aug 31, 2005
    #14
  15. T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:47:57 GMT when I remembered MarkH
    <> saying something like this:

    >> 2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    >> charge those margins on computer parts;)

    >
    >Maths not your best subject eh? :)
    >
    >I think that you will find it much closer to 1.3%, you were only out by a
    >factor of 100.


    Ugh, that's my second maths mistake in like two days. And to think I'm
    doing a Bachelor of Computing and Mathematical Sciences at Waikato o_O

    /me goes back to learning what percentages are...
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Aug 31, 2005
    #15
  16. XP

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:08:35 +1200, XP wrote:

    > Its about time the Government got off its Arse and did some think about this,


    You wouldn't be Chinese by any chance?


    Bling Bling

    --
    Fink: "The Linux market is growing 30% to 35% a year."
     
    Bling-Bling, Aug 31, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <>,
    "SpamAccountForMe" <> wrote:

    > They make more out of selling convenience foods & cigarrettes than they
    > do out of petrol margins.


    The petrol retailers have to treat petrol as a loss-leader. It's the
    importers, distributors and the Gummint who are creaming it.

    And brace yourself for an increase in insurance premiums on everything.
    Nu Orleans' levees just broke, 80% of the city is under up to 6m of
    sewerage and anarchy rulez. The reinsurance industry will be hiding
    under their beds.

    Sorta sad....seeing a major city go down the gurgler, but it's an
    'Emperor has no clothes' situation. It's not a bright move to build on
    the mouth of a large & unruly river then mess with it. Sooner or later
    you're going to find a set of fangs embedded in your bum.


    --
    ffotherington-Thomas
    (spinster of this parish)
     
    ffotherington-Thomas, Aug 31, 2005
    #17
  18. XP

    george Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:
    > T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:47:57 GMT when I remembered MarkH
    > <> saying something like this:
    >
    > >> 2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    > >> charge those margins on computer parts;)

    > >
    > >Maths not your best subject eh? :)
    > >
    > >I think that you will find it much closer to 1.3%, you were only out by a
    > >factor of 100.

    >
    > Ugh, that's my second maths mistake in like two days. And to think I'm
    > doing a Bachelor of Computing and Mathematical Sciences at Waikato o_O
    >
    > /me goes back to learning what percentages are...


    Change to Victoria immediately :)
     
    george, Aug 31, 2005
    #18
  19. "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:09 +1200, someone purporting to be dersu didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >>
    >> "XP" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...

    > *SNIP*
    >> government that is taxing the hell out of the motorist. What the
    >> government
    >> should be doing is reducing the outrageous amount of tax that they are
    >> stealing from us all with every litre.
    >>

    > You realise that if the Government were to remove all taxes except GST
    > from petrol, the price would still be over a dollar per litre? Current
    > price excluding all tax is almost 89c/L.
    > Doing so would, of course, require that the funds generated be made up
    > from some other part of the tax base.
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole
    > "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    >


    And, thats ok by me....remove the petrol taxes, and increase gst to 12.6% to
    compensate.
     
    news.xtra.co.nz, Aug 31, 2005
    #19
  20. "Waylon Kenning" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > T'was the Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:47:57 GMT when I remembered MarkH
    > <> saying something like this:
    >
    >>> 2 cents! That's like 0.013% of the total price! I only wish I could
    >>> charge those margins on computer parts;)

    >>
    >>Maths not your best subject eh? :)
    >>
    >>I think that you will find it much closer to 1.3%, you were only out by a
    >>factor of 100.

    >
    > Ugh, that's my second maths mistake in like two days. And to think I'm
    > doing a Bachelor of Computing and Mathematical Sciences at Waikato o_O
    >
    > /me goes back to learning what percentages are...
    > --
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Waylon Kenning.


    Hey good degree....I graduated with a bcms some 12 years ago.....but, IT
    isn't what it used to be now that indian programmer farms are so prolific.

    'member the days when computerworlds was filled with pages and pages of
    corporate high paying IT jobs and programmers would be paid more than
    doctors and lawyers. Unfortunately, wages have been dropping for 12 years
    now while the docs/lawyers went up.
     
    news.xtra.co.nz, Aug 31, 2005
    #20
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