NZ noes nothing about computers.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mary Hanna, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. Mary Hanna

    Mary Hanna Guest

    If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have a
    back up system.

    When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.
     
    Mary Hanna, Oct 11, 2009
    #1
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  2. Mary Hanna

    Peter Guest

    Mary Hanna wrote:
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have
    > a back up system.


    Yes, there must be something seriously wrong with their disaster recovery
    scheme.
    On TV, they showed Win XP boot up screen when they said Air NZ was getting
    the system going again. Not clear if the Air NZ system runs on Win XP, or
    that was just handy file footage.
     
    Peter, Oct 11, 2009
    #2
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  3. Mary Hanna

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 11, 7:46 pm, Mary Hanna <> wrote:
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have a
    > back up system.
    >
    > When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.


    If you had've worked for them it never would've happened eh? coz you
    noes everything about computers. I bet it was their antivirus scanner
    or their video card drivers eh?

    Gimme a break.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Oct 11, 2009
    #3
  4. Mary Hanna

    Carnations Guest

    On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:24:44 +1300, Peter wrote:

    > On TV, they showed Win XP boot up screen when they said Air NZ was
    > getting the system going again. Not clear if the Air NZ system runs on
    > Win XP, or that was just handy file footage.


    Probably just handy file footage, altho' I would expect that footage be copyrighted by Microsoft. ;o)


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Carnations, Oct 11, 2009
    #4
  5. Mary Hanna

    Carnations Guest

    On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 00:52:01 -0700, AD. wrote:

    > If you had've worked for them it never would've happened eh? coz you
    > noes everything about computers. I bet it was their antivirus scanner or
    > their video card drivers eh?


    Doesn't AirNZ use a Mainframe?

    Wouldn't AirNZ's data centre have UPSes with a backup generator?

    Given that they've called in IBM for a blood-letting session I think that something didn't happen that
    should have happened when the thing that shouldn't have happened happened. :eek:)


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Carnations, Oct 11, 2009
    #5
  6. Mary Hanna

    EMB Guest

    Carnations wrote:

    > Doesn't AirNZ use a Mainframe?
    >
    > Wouldn't AirNZ's data centre have UPSes with a backup generator?
    >
    > Given that they've called in IBM for a blood-letting session I think that something didn't happen that
    > should have happened when the thing that shouldn't have happened happened. :eek:)


    I know a fair bit of background to this, and the only comment I am
    willing to make is that I (like a lot of others who have worked there)
    am surprised this didn't happen much sooner.
     
    EMB, Oct 11, 2009
    #6
  7. Mary Hanna

    Simon Guest

    On Oct 11, 9:20 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    > Carnations wrote:
    > > Doesn't AirNZ use a Mainframe?

    >
    > > Wouldn't AirNZ's data centre have UPSes with a backup generator?

    >
    > > Given that they've called in IBM for a blood-letting session I think that something didn't happen that
    > > should have happened when the thing that shouldn't have happened happened. :eek:)

    >
    > I know a fair bit of background to this, and the only comment I am
    > willing to make is that I (like a lot of others who have worked there)
    > am surprised this didn't happen much sooner.


    Do you know offhand, what percentage of system availability Air New
    Zealand aim for?
     
    Simon, Oct 11, 2009
    #7
  8. Mary Hanna

    EMB Guest

    Simon wrote:

    > Do you know offhand, what percentage of system availability Air New
    > Zealand aim for?


    It varies by system type and business unit.
     
    EMB, Oct 11, 2009
    #8
  9. Mary Hanna

    thingy Guest

    On Oct 11, 8:24 pm, Peter <> wrote:
    > Mary Hanna wrote:
    > > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have
    > > a back up system.

    >
    > Yes, there must be something seriously wrong with their disaster recovery
    > scheme.
    > On TV, they showed Win XP boot up screen when they said Air NZ was getting
    > the system going again.  Not clear if the Air NZ system runs on Win XP, or
    > that was just handy file footage.


    Pretty sure they have a small main frame...at their core...so its
    possible it had a huge failure but those things are designed to
    withstand that...

    regards
     
    thingy, Oct 11, 2009
    #9
  10. Mary Hanna

    peterwn Guest

    On Oct 11, 7:46 pm, Mary Hanna <> wrote:
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have a
    > back up system.
    >
    > When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.


    It will be interesting to see what happened. There was probably a
    'common mode' failure point that had been overlooked, or a mistake
    somewhere like a switch being left off.

    In a Californian city the 911 phone service failed after an
    earthquake. The calls were answered at the central cop shop and the
    standby generator failed to start. The way it was configured it
    required mains power to pump the fuel to the engine - of course a 12
    volt pump should have been used!

    There is a difference between Databank disaster recovery and the Air
    NZ situation. In the Databank days, disaster recovery was about data
    preservation and having access to sufficient alternative 'big iron'
    in NZ. 'next day' was good enough.

    In the Air NZ situation the requirement is virtually immediate
    restoration - 10 minutes at the most.
     
    peterwn, Oct 11, 2009
    #10
  11. Mary Hanna

    Simon Guest

    On Oct 12, 7:16 am, peterwn <> wrote:

    > It will be interesting to see what happened. There was probably a
    > 'common mode' failure point that had been overlooked, or a mistake
    > somewhere like a switch being left off.


    I'm sure we'll hear more details about the failure today. It was
    interesting listening to Air NZ's customers on the radio yesterday,
    complaining about how the company should have had a back up system.
    Clearly there are some massive conclusions being jumped to.

    On the generator front, we had an incident where-by a power failure
    triggered the generator to operate, but at some point the radiator fan
    sucked in part of the wiring loom and shorted the electrics.
    Unfortunately these types of problems do happen from time to time!
    It's very difficult to account for every possible scenario.
     
    Simon, Oct 11, 2009
    #11
  12. Mary Hanna

    Nick Rennie Guest

    "Mary Hanna" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have
    > a
    > back up system.
    >
    > When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.
    >


    You noe not a lot about spelling. HA! :)
     
    Nick Rennie, Oct 12, 2009
    #12
  13. Mary Hanna

    Malcolm Guest

    On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:46:16 +1300
    Mary Hanna <> wrote:

    >
    >
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they
    > have a back up system.
    >
    > When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.
    >

    Maybe you could offer a consultancy service for this one then?
    http://www.macworld.com/article/143244/2009/10/sidekick.html?lsrc=rss_main

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.27.29-0.1-default
    up 2 days 12:44, 2 users, load average: 0.54, 0.25, 0.26
    GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - CUDA Driver Version: 190.18
     
    Malcolm, Oct 12, 2009
    #13
  14. On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:05:07 +1300, Nick Rennie <> wrote
    in <news:haugum$da6$>:

    > "Mary Hanna" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >>
    >> If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have
    >> a
    >> back up system.
    >>
    >> When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.
    >>

    >
    > You noe not a lot about spelling. HA! :)


    Hino far call about far call.

    --
    - Nicolaas
     
    Nicolaas Hawkins, Oct 12, 2009
    #14
  15. Mary Hanna

    Adam Guest

    Simon wrote:

    > On Oct 12, 7:16 am, peterwn <> wrote:
    >
    >> It will be interesting to see what happened. There was probably a
    >> 'common mode' failure point that had been overlooked, or a mistake
    >> somewhere like a switch being left off.

    >
    > I'm sure we'll hear more details about the failure today. It was
    > interesting listening to Air NZ's customers on the radio yesterday,
    > complaining about how the company should have had a back up system.
    > Clearly there are some massive conclusions being jumped to.
    >
    > On the generator front, we had an incident where-by a power failure
    > triggered the generator to operate, but at some point the radiator fan
    > sucked in part of the wiring loom and shorted the electrics.
    > Unfortunately these types of problems do happen from time to time!
    > It's very difficult to account for every possible scenario.


    That's the situation here, I believe. A power failure
    problem somewhere up the line towards their mainframe.

    Always a helluva job to check that it works, before its
    needed. Changeover of power, I mean.

    Now perhaps the upstream software failed to cope when
    this power changeover happened. I hope we get to hear.
     
    Adam, Oct 12, 2009
    #15
  16. Mary Hanna

    peterwn Guest

    On Oct 12, 8:21 am, Simon <> wrote:
    > On Oct 12, 7:16 am, peterwn <> wrote:
    >
    > > It will be interesting to see what happened. There was probably a
    > > 'common mode' failure point that had been overlooked, or a mistake
    > > somewhere like a switch being left off.

    >
    > I'm sure we'll hear more details about the failure today. It was
    > interesting listening to Air NZ's customers on the radio yesterday,
    > complaining about how the company should have had a back up system.
    > Clearly there are some massive conclusions being jumped to.
    >


    Seemed it was a faulty oil pressure switch. Anyway there should be a
    proper contingency plan in case a standby generator fails to start.
    Like what would hsappen if there was a fire alarm and the firefighters
    wanted an evacuation and total shutdown.

    It would seem to me that a reasonably up to date (say 95% up to date)
    booking status of departing flights should be kept on a server at each
    airport (or at least the main ones). if the main server or comms links
    fail, then boarding passes and luggage labels can continued to be
    produced locally, with only a handfull of people caught between the
    cracks to be processes semi-manually.

    When one starts looking at the situation in this manner, much of the
    blame IMO reverts to Air NZ. Erebus all over again - blame the person
    at the 'sharp end', not their systems. They seemed to be relying on
    the 'black letter' of the outsourcing contract rather than taking
    reasonable care of systems critical to their business.
     
    peterwn, Oct 12, 2009
    #16
  17. Mary Hanna

    PeeCee Guest

    "Mary Hanna" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > If it did, how did the Air NZ computer system break down. don't they have
    > a
    > back up system.
    >
    > When I worked for Data Back they had a full backup system.
    >



    From NBR

    <quote>
    Today, IBM released the following statement: "At 9.03am on Sunday morning
    during a scheduled maintenance check at IBM's Newton Data Centre, the back
    up generator experienced a power failure, which caused a disruption to its
    clients.
    One client's system in particular was badly affected on Sunday, but IBM's
    technical support team has now reinstated all client services."
    </quote>

    Somewhere else I read a subcontractor was perfoming an upgrade when the
    failure occured.
    When the Server was back up and running (3 minutes IBM says) it was
    discovered neither the contrator or the contractee had done a back up before
    the upgrade started.

    It wasn't stated but the inference was the rebooted system was in some
    indeterminate mid update state.
    I can only guess they had to go back to an earlier state and work the system
    up from there.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Oct 15, 2009
    #17
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