ntsc on pal TV?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Perfect Stranger, Sep 4, 2004.

  1. Hi!
    I have a PAL TV and DVD player and it says in the manuals that the DVD
    player can play NTSC DVD's and that the TV can handle it. But, how will the
    quality of a NTSC DVD played on a system like mine be compared to a PAL DVD?
    Is it worth buying NTSC DVD's or is it better to search for them same DVD
    for PAL?

    Ake
    Perfect Stranger, Sep 4, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Perfect Stranger

    Ralf-35 Guest

    PAL has a more defined picture quality (more 'lines' compared to NTSC) -
    therefore, you'd better take PAL over NTSC when you have the choice...

    Regards,

    Ralf

    "Perfect Stranger" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:g_h_c.2781$...
    > Hi!
    > I have a PAL TV and DVD player and it says in the manuals that the DVD
    > player can play NTSC DVD's and that the TV can handle it. But, how will

    the
    > quality of a NTSC DVD played on a system like mine be compared to a PAL

    DVD?
    > Is it worth buying NTSC DVD's or is it better to search for them same DVD
    > for PAL?
    >
    > Ake
    >
    >
    Ralf-35, Sep 4, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:54:37 +0200, "Ralf-35" <>
    wrote:

    >PAL has a more defined picture quality (more 'lines' compared to NTSC) -
    >therefore, you'd better take PAL over NTSC when you have the choice...
    >
    >Regards,
    >
    >Ralf


    But PAL suffers from a 4% speedup and some people are bothered by
    that. I myself don't notice as long as the sound is pitch corrected.
    So it's just a question of which bother you least - fewer lines or
    faster playback.

    Mischa
    Mischa van Dinter, Sep 4, 2004
    #3
  4. Perfect Stranger

    Ralf-35 Guest

    The faster playback you won't be able to notice (try watching the same
    movie(scene) in NTSC and PAL - you won't be able to tell the difference) -
    the less defined picture quality though you will notice right away!


    "Mischa van Dinter" <> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:...
    > On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:54:37 +0200, "Ralf-35" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >PAL has a more defined picture quality (more 'lines' compared to NTSC) -
    > >therefore, you'd better take PAL over NTSC when you have the choice...
    > >
    > >Regards,
    > >
    > >Ralf

    >
    > But PAL suffers from a 4% speedup and some people are bothered by
    > that. I myself don't notice as long as the sound is pitch corrected.
    > So it's just a question of which bother you least - fewer lines or
    > faster playback.
    >
    > Mischa
    Ralf-35, Sep 4, 2004
    #4
  5. Perfect Stranger

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Perfect Stranger" <> wrote in message
    news:g_h_c.2781$...
    > Hi!
    > I have a PAL TV and DVD player and it says in the manuals that the DVD
    > player can play NTSC DVD's and that the TV can handle it. But, how

    will the
    > quality of a NTSC DVD played on a system like mine be compared to a

    PAL DVD?
    > Is it worth buying NTSC DVD's or is it better to search for them same

    DVD
    > for PAL?


    PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary format
    called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a picture
    that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a true NTSC
    television.


    "Ralf-35" <> wrote in message
    news:chci4o$c78$03$-online.com...
    > The faster playback you won't be able to notice (try watching the same
    > movie(scene) in NTSC and PAL - you won't be able to tell the

    difference) -
    > the less defined picture quality though you will notice right away!



    I tend not to be distracted by PAL speedup, but to say that no one would
    be able to tell the difference is outright wrong. If you grew up in a
    PAL country, you are probably just so used to everything being sped up
    that you don't remember what people's voices and music are supposed to
    sound like. But someone who has grown up with NTSC and proper playback
    speed will notice the pitch shift right away. You get used to it, but
    for a while it will sound like everyone on screen has been inhaling
    helium.

    The differences in picture quality, on the other hand, will come down to
    which disc has better mastering quality. Many PAL DVDs are poorly
    mastered and filled with compression and other digital artifacting.
    Having more lines of resolution does not always automatically mean that
    the picture will be better.
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 4, 2004
    #5
  6. On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:20:49 GMT, "Joshua Zyber"
    <> wrote:


    >PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary format
    >called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    >This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a picture
    >that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a true NTSC
    >television.


    That's almost entirely incorrect!

    The format on the DVD is digital component, so you can encode this
    into either PAL or NTSC composite colour video. Either of these will
    decode just as well on the relevant type of decoder in the TV. In fact
    there's an argument that a 525/60 signal encoded with PAL colour (ie
    PAL60) will decode better than pure NTSC due to the higher chrominance
    bandwidth of PAL colour. Depends on the kind of encoder and decoder.

    In the real world though, you won't be able to choose between them.
    And anyway, if you're watching using a composite or S-Video connection
    then you're already watching a compromised picture - you should be
    watching through a component or RGB connection!

    Steve

    The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
    Steve Roberts, Sep 4, 2004
    #6
  7. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 16:13:14 +0200, "Ralf-35" <>
    wrote:

    >The faster playback you won't be able to notice (try watching the same
    >movie(scene) in NTSC and PAL - you won't be able to tell the difference) -
    >the less defined picture quality though you will notice right away!
    >


    I don't notice the speedup, but many people (claim they) do. Watch
    something in PAL that isn't pitch corrected and you will notice too.
    And sometimes, when I am really familiar with something, like a song
    I've heard hundreds of times, it can sound slightly "off".

    I will grant you that the difference in picture quality is easier to
    spot, PAL is sharper with better colours and less jerky than NTSC.
    But, NTSC DVD is still very good so I don't really let PAL vs NTSC
    infuence my descision what to buy. Usually it's censorship, extras and
    price that I go by.

    Mischa
    Mischa van Dinter, Sep 4, 2004
    #7
  8. On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:51:59 GMT, (Steve
    Roberts) wrote:

    >On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 14:20:49 GMT, "Joshua Zyber"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary format
    >>called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    >>This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a picture
    >>that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a true NTSC
    >>television.

    >
    >That's almost entirely incorrect!
    >
    >The format on the DVD is digital component, so you can encode this
    >into either PAL or NTSC composite colour video. Either of these will
    >decode just as well on the relevant type of decoder in the TV. In fact
    >there's an argument that a 525/60 signal encoded with PAL colour (ie
    >PAL60) will decode better than pure NTSC due to the higher chrominance
    >bandwidth of PAL colour. Depends on the kind of encoder and decoder.


    This is correct. It's also not the TV that does anything, it's the DVD
    player. The DVD player creates the signal, and a TV either displays it
    or it does not. No real conversion is needed, framerate and resolution
    stay the same. The DVD player just adds a PAL colour signal instead of
    an NTSC one. As I understand it, a DVD doesn't even contain NTSC or
    PAL, it just has the video and it flags the player to add either PAL
    or NTSC.

    Mischa
    Mischa van Dinter, Sep 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Perfect Stranger

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Steve Roberts" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary

    format
    > >called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    > >This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a

    picture
    > >that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a true NTSC
    > >television.

    >
    > That's almost entirely incorrect!
    >
    > The format on the DVD is digital component, so you can encode this
    > into either PAL or NTSC composite colour video. Either of these will
    > decode just as well on the relevant type of decoder in the TV. In fact
    > there's an argument that a 525/60 signal encoded with PAL colour (ie
    > PAL60) will decode better than pure NTSC due to the higher chrominance
    > bandwidth of PAL colour. Depends on the kind of encoder and decoder.


    That argument is theoretical and has little basis in reality. In the
    real world, watching NTSC on a native NTSC display almost always looks
    better than converting NTSC to PAL60. Maybe that has as much to do with
    the cheap hardware built into PAL televisions or DVD players to do the
    conversion, but regardless calling my post "entirely incorrect" is,
    well, entirely incorrect itself.

    Most people watching on PAL televisions have no idea what NTSC looks
    like on an optimal display, hence the outpouring of "NTSC looks like
    crap!" from the one side and "What the hell are you talking about?" from
    the other side posts whenever one of these PAL vs. NTSC debates comes
    up. My projector can display both PAL and NTSC natively. In a best case
    scenario, both are excellent, and the added resolution of PAL can indeed
    look better, but NTSC converted to PAL or PAL60 almost never looks good.

    There's really no point in arguing, anyway. The difference between both
    formats is miniscule compared to the jump upward of HDTV.

    > And anyway, if you're watching using a composite or S-Video connection
    > then you're already watching a compromised picture - you should be
    > watching through a component or RGB connection!


    When did either I or the original poster say anything about using a
    composite or S-video connection?
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Perfect Stranger

    Bill Guest


    > This is correct. It's also not the TV that does anything, it's the DVD
    > player. The DVD player creates the signal, and a TV either displays it
    > or it does not. No real conversion is needed, framerate and resolution
    > stay the same. The DVD player just adds a PAL colour signal instead of
    > an NTSC one. As I understand it, a DVD doesn't even contain NTSC or
    > PAL, it just has the video and it flags the player to add either PAL
    > or NTSC.
    >
    > Mischa


    It's not quite that simple, files on DVDs are encoded for display on a
    single television format, though some players can convert PAL to NTSC, or
    vice-versa.

    All of this, of course, doesn't matter to a computer with a DVD-ROM drive,
    since a computer monitor uses neither NTSC or PAL. It will happily display
    either type of disc, as long as regional encoding can be dealt with.
    Bill, Sep 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Perfect Stranger

    ThePunisher Guest

    Joshua Zyber wrote:
    > "Perfect Stranger" <> wrote in message
    > news:g_h_c.2781$...
    >> Hi!
    >> I have a PAL TV and DVD player and it says in the manuals that the
    >> DVD player can play NTSC DVD's and that the TV can handle it. But,
    >> how will the quality of a NTSC DVD played on a system like mine be
    >> compared to a PAL DVD? Is it worth buying NTSC DVD's or is it better
    >> to search for them same DVD for PAL?

    >
    > PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary format
    > called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    > This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a
    > picture that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a
    > true NTSC television.
    >


    Really? so it's the tv doing the converting not the dvd player, intresting.
    Do you have some PAL tvs to compare the picture with?

    > "Ralf-35" <> wrote in message
    > news:chci4o$c78$03$-online.com...
    >> The faster playback you won't be able to notice (try watching the
    >> same movie(scene) in NTSC and PAL - you won't be able to tell the
    >> difference) - the less defined picture quality though you will
    >> notice right away!

    >
    >
    > I tend not to be distracted by PAL speedup, but to say that no one
    > would be able to tell the difference is outright wrong. If you grew
    > up in a PAL country, you are probably just so used to everything
    > being sped up that you don't remember what people's voices and music
    > are supposed to sound like. But someone who has grown up with NTSC
    > and proper playback speed will notice the pitch shift right away. You
    > get used to it, but for a while it will sound like everyone on screen
    > has been inhaling helium.
    >
    > The differences in picture quality, on the other hand, will come down
    > to which disc has better mastering quality. Many PAL DVDs are poorly
    > mastered and filled with compression and other digital artifacting.
    > Having more lines of resolution does not always automatically mean
    > that the picture will be better.


    Of course you mean "Some DVDs are poorly mastered" not just PAL or many.

    --
    ThePunisher
    ThePunisher, Sep 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Perfect Stranger

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "ThePunisher" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do you have some PAL tvs to compare the picture with?


    My projector displays both formats natively.

    > > The differences in picture quality, on the other hand, will come

    down
    > > to which disc has better mastering quality. Many PAL DVDs are poorly
    > > mastered and filled with compression and other digital artifacting.
    > > Having more lines of resolution does not always automatically mean
    > > that the picture will be better.

    >
    > Of course you mean "Some DVDs are poorly mastered" not just PAL or

    many.

    No, I mean exactly what I said. Many PAL DVDs are poorly mastered. Not
    all, but many.
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 4, 2004
    #12
  13. On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:58:47 GMT, "Bill" <> wrote:

    >
    >> As I understand it, a DVD doesn't even contain NTSC or
    >> PAL, it just has the video and it flags the player to add either PAL
    >> or NTSC.
    >>
    >> Mischa

    >
    >It's not quite that simple, files on DVDs are encoded for display on a
    >single television format, though some players can convert PAL to NTSC, or
    >vice-versa.
    >

    I know, but isn't that the resolution and framerate only? As you point
    out, computer monitors don't differentiate between the two, doesn't
    that indicate that the PAL or NTSC signal isn't actually a part of the
    video itself? I mean, the video could be flagged as either PAL or NTSC
    so a standalone player will know what to make of it, or the player
    would simply look to see if the source material is 50 or 60 hz, so the
    actual video would not have to contain any PAL or NTSC signal. Also
    keeping in mind the PAL60 format, which is basically NTSC resolution
    and framerate with a PAL colour signal, and no conversion is required.
    My old VHS has PAL60 and I very much doubt that it can convert
    anything to anything, it just outputs everything with a PAL colour
    signal and the original framerate.

    Mischa
    Mischa van Dinter, Sep 5, 2004
    #13
  14. Perfect Stranger

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Mischa van Dinter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I know, but isn't that the resolution and framerate only? As you point
    > out, computer monitors don't differentiate between the two, doesn't
    > that indicate that the PAL or NTSC signal isn't actually a part of the
    > video itself? I mean, the video could be flagged as either PAL or NTSC
    > so a standalone player will know what to make of it, or the player
    > would simply look to see if the source material is 50 or 60 hz, so the
    > actual video would not have to contain any PAL or NTSC signal. Also
    > keeping in mind the PAL60 format, which is basically NTSC resolution
    > and framerate with a PAL colour signal, and no conversion is required.
    > My old VHS has PAL60 and I very much doubt that it can convert
    > anything to anything, it just outputs everything with a PAL colour
    > signal and the original framerate.


    Here's what the DVD FAQ has to say (unedited):

    http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.19

    -----------------
    The MPEG video on a DVD is stored in digital format, but it's formatted
    for one of two mutually incompatible television systems: 525/60 (NTSC)
    or 625/50 (PAL/SECAM). Therefore, there are two kinds of DVDs: "NTSC
    DVDs" and "PAL DVDs." Some players only play NTSC discs, others play PAL
    and NTSC discs. Discs are also coded for different regions of the world
    (see 1.10).

    Almost all DVD players sold in PAL countries play both kinds of discs.
    These multi-standard players partially convert NTSC to a 60-Hz PAL (4.43
    NTSC) signal. The player uses the PAL 4.43-MHz color subcarrier encoding
    format but keeps the 525/60 NTSC scanning rate. Most modern PAL TVs can
    handle this "pseudo-PAL" signal. A few multi-standard PAL players output
    true 3.58 NTSC from NTSC discs, which requires an NTSC TV or a
    multi-standard TV. Some players have a switch to choose 60-Hz PAL or
    true NTSC output when playing NTSC discs. There are a few
    standards-converting PAL players that convert from an NTSC disc to
    standard PAL output for older PAL TVs. Proper "on the fly" standards
    conversion requires expensive hardware to handle scaling, temporal
    conversion, and object motion analysis. Because the quality of
    conversion in DVD players is poor, using 60-Hz PAL output with a
    compatible TV provides a better picture than converting from NTSC to
    PAL. (Sound is not affected by video conversion.) The latest software
    tools such as Adobe After Effects and Canopus ProCoder do quite a good
    job of converting between PAL and NTSC at low cost, but they are only
    appropriate for the production environment (converting the video before
    it is encoded and put on the DVD). See Snell and Wilcox's The Engineer's
    Guide to Standards Conversion and The Engineer's Guide to Motion
    Compensation for technical details of conversion.

    Most NTSC players can't play PAL discs. A very small number of NTSC
    players (such as Apex and SMC) can convert PAL to NTSC. External
    converter boxes are also available, such as the Emerson EVC1595 ($350).
    High-quality converters are available from companies such as TenLab and
    Snell and Wilcox.

    Many standards-converting players can't convert anamorphic widescreen
    video for 4:3 displays. See 1.22.

    There are three differences between discs intended for playback on
    different TV systems: picture dimensions and pixel aspect ratio (720x480
    vs. 720x576), display frame rate (29.97 vs. 25), and surround audio
    options (Dolby Digital vs. MPEG audio). (See 3.4 and 3.6 for details.)
    Video from film is usually encoded at 24 frames/sec but is preformatted
    for one of the two required display rates. Movies formatted for PAL
    display are usually sped up by 4% at playback, so the audio must be
    adjusted accordingly before being encoded. All PAL DVD players can play
    Dolby Digital audio tracks, but not all NTSC players can play MPEG audio
    tracks. PAL and SECAM share the same scanning format, so discs are the
    same for both systems. The only difference is that SECAM players output
    the color signal in the format required by SECAM TVs. Note that modern
    TVs in most SECAM countries can also read PAL signals, so you can use a
    player that only has PAL output. The only case in which you need a
    player with SECAM output is for older SECAM-only TVs (and you'll
    probably need a SECAM RF connection, see 3.1).

    A producer can choose to put 525/60 NTSC video on one side of the disc
    and 625/50 PAL on the other. Most studios put Dolby Digital audio tracks
    on their PAL discs instead of MPEG audio tracks.

    Because of PAL's higher resolution, the movie usually takes more space
    on the disc than the NTSC version. See 3.4 for more details.

    There are actually three types of DVD players if you count computers.
    Most DVD PC software and hardware can play both NTSC and PAL video and
    both Dolby Digital and MPEG audio. Some PCs can only display the
    converted video on the computer monitor, but others can output it as a
    video signal for a TV.

    Bottom line: NTSC discs (with Dolby Digital audio) play on over 95% of
    DVD systems worldwide. PAL discs play on very few players outside of PAL
    countries. (This is irrespective of regions -- see 1.10.)
    ---------------
    Joshua Zyber, Sep 5, 2004
    #14
  15. Perfect Stranger

    Bill Guest


    > I know, but isn't that the resolution and framerate only? As you point
    > out, computer monitors don't differentiate between the two, doesn't
    > that indicate that the PAL or NTSC signal isn't actually a part of the
    > video itself? I mean, the video could be flagged as either PAL or NTSC
    > so a standalone player will know what to make of it, or the player
    > would simply look to see if the source material is 50 or 60 hz, so the
    > actual video would not have to contain any PAL or NTSC signal. Also
    > keeping in mind the PAL60 format, which is basically NTSC resolution
    > and framerate with a PAL colour signal, and no conversion is required.
    > My old VHS has PAL60 and I very much doubt that it can convert
    > anything to anything, it just outputs everything with a PAL colour
    > signal and the original framerate.
    >
    > Mischa


    Until a few months ago, when I was interested in buying a DVD that was
    available in the PAL format only, I honestly did think (and could have sworn
    that I read it in a video magazine) the same thing--that the video files on
    a DVD were not format specific, and that NTSC/PAL formatting was handled
    only by the DVD player.

    Searches on the internet turned up information about DVDs that was totally
    the opposite of my assumptions.

    The following should help clarify things somewhat, it's from the DVD FAQ for
    the rec.video.dvd Usenet group:

    [1.19] Is DVD-Video a worldwide standard? Does it work with NTSC, PAL, and
    SECAM?
    The MPEG video on a DVD is stored in digital format, but it's formatted for
    one of two mutually incompatible television systems: 525/60 (NTSC) or 625/50
    (PAL/SECAM). Therefore, there are two kinds of DVDs: "NTSC DVDs" and "PAL
    DVDs." Some players only play NTSC discs, others play PAL and NTSC discs.
    Discs are also coded for different regions of the world (see 1.10).

    Most NTSC players can't play PAL discs. A very small number of NTSC players
    (such as Apex and SMC) can convert PAL to NTSC. External converter boxes are
    also available, such as the Emerson EVC1595 ($350). High-quality converters
    are available from companies such as TenLab and Snell and Wilcox.

    There are three differences between discs intended for playback on different
    TV systems: picture dimensions and pixel aspect ratio (720x480 vs. 720x576),
    display frame rate (29.97 vs. 25), and surround audio options (Dolby Digital
    vs. MPEG audio). (See 3.4 and 3.6 for details.) Video from film is usually
    encoded at 24 frames/sec but is preformatted for one of the two required
    display rates. Movies formatted for PAL display are usually sped up by 4% at
    playback, so the audio must be adjusted accordingly before being encoded.
    All PAL DVD players can play Dolby Digital audio tracks, but not all NTSC
    players can play MPEG audio tracks.

    A producer can choose to put 525/60 NTSC video on one side of the disc and
    625/50 PAL on the other. Most studios put Dolby Digital audio tracks on
    their PAL discs instead of MPEG audio tracks.

    Because of PAL's higher resolution, the movie usually takes more space on
    the disc than the NTSC version. See 3.4 for more details.

    There are actually three types of DVD players if you count computers. Most
    DVD PC software and hardware can play both NTSC and PAL video and both Dolby
    Digital and MPEG audio. Some PCs can only display the converted video on the
    computer monitor, but others can output it as a video signal for a TV.
    Bill, Sep 5, 2004
    #15
  16. On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 03:58:55 GMT, "Bill" <> wrote:

    >


    >
    >The following should help clarify things somewhat, it's from the DVD FAQ for
    >the rec.video.dvd Usenet group:
    >
    >[1.19] Is DVD-Video a worldwide standard? Does it work with NTSC, PAL, and
    >SECAM?
    >The MPEG video on a DVD is stored in digital format, but it's formatted for
    >one of two mutually incompatible television systems: 525/60 (NTSC) or 625/50
    >(PAL/SECAM). Therefore, there are two kinds of DVDs: "NTSC DVDs" and "PAL
    >DVDs." Some players only play NTSC discs, others play PAL and NTSC discs.
    >Discs are also coded for different regions of the world (see 1.10).
    >

    Guess that settles it, although i am still not 100% convinced if there
    is "real" PAL or NTSC information stored in the video. Basically, the
    FAQ states that a 525/60 format makes it NTSC, even though that is not
    all there is to it... NTSC and PAL are analogue signals, I am unsure
    how that would fit into a digital video.

    Doesn't even matter, as long as I can pay back both, I guess.

    Mischa
    Mischa van Dinter, Sep 5, 2004
    #16
  17. On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:45:38 +0200, Mischa van Dinter
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 03:58:55 GMT, "Bill" <> wrote:
    >
    >>

    >
    >>
    >>The following should help clarify things somewhat, it's from the DVD FAQ for
    >>the rec.video.dvd Usenet group:
    >>
    >>[1.19] Is DVD-Video a worldwide standard? Does it work with NTSC, PAL, and
    >>SECAM?
    >>The MPEG video on a DVD is stored in digital format, but it's formatted for
    >>one of two mutually incompatible television systems: 525/60 (NTSC) or 625/50
    >>(PAL/SECAM). Therefore, there are two kinds of DVDs: "NTSC DVDs" and "PAL
    >>DVDs." Some players only play NTSC discs, others play PAL and NTSC discs.
    >>Discs are also coded for different regions of the world (see 1.10).
    >>

    >Guess that settles it, although i am still not 100% convinced if there
    >is "real" PAL or NTSC information stored in the video. Basically, the
    >FAQ states that a 525/60 format makes it NTSC, even though that is not
    >all there is to it... NTSC and PAL are analogue signals, I am unsure
    >how that would fit into a digital video.


    The problem here, Mischa, is more down to the widespread and incorrect
    use of the terms PAL and NTSC rather than anything else!

    The format on the disc is component YUV video at either 720 x 480
    pixels @ 24 frames or 60 fields per second (film or video) - for
    525-line, 60 field systems

    or

    720 x 576 pixels @ 50 fields per second - for 625-line, 50 field
    systems.

    These are incorrectly referred to as NTSC and PAL.

    If the disc is 720 x 480 @ 24 frames, the player itself adds 3:2
    pulldown to produce a standard 60 field output.

    These formats can both be encoded with either PAL or NTSC colour on
    the composite / S-Video outputs of the player.

    Steve



    The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
    Steve Roberts, Sep 5, 2004
    #17
  18. On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:22:16 +0100, "ThePunisher"
    <> wrote:

    >> PAL televisions usually convert NTSC content to an intermediary format
    >> called "PAL60" that is sort of a halfway point between PAL and NTSC.
    >> This generally causes conversion artifacts and will result in a
    >> picture that is inferior than if you played the same disc back on a
    >> true NTSC television.
    >>

    >
    >Really? so it's the tv doing the converting not the dvd player, intresting.


    And incorrect!

    The player adds either PAL or NTSC colour information, the TV uses
    either a single-standard or multistandard colour decoder to decode it.
    TV's DO NOT, for example, transcode an NTSC colour signal into a PAL
    one before subsequently decoding it with a PAL decoder.

    Hence if you have a TV which can display colour from both PAL and
    NTSC, it's because the TV has a multistandard decoder, not a single
    standard decoder with a transcoder bodged into it!

    Steve


    The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
    Steve Roberts, Sep 5, 2004
    #18
  19. Perfect Stranger

    ThePunisher Guest

    Joshua Zyber wrote:
    > "ThePunisher" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Do you have some PAL tvs to compare the picture with?

    >
    > My projector displays both formats natively.


    Whats the resolution of your projector?

    >>> The differences in picture quality, on the other hand, will come
    >>> down to which disc has better mastering quality. Many PAL DVDs are
    >>> poorly mastered and filled with compression and other digital
    >>> artifacting. Having more lines of resolution does not always
    >>> automatically mean that the picture will be better.

    >>
    >> Of course you mean "Some DVDs are poorly mastered" not just PAL or
    >> many.

    >
    > No, I mean exactly what I said. Many PAL DVDs are poorly mastered. Not
    > all, but many.


    Do you have a list of these Many PAL DVDs? or a list of the Many NTSC DVDs
    also?

    --
    ThePunisher
    ThePunisher, Sep 5, 2004
    #19
  20. Perfect Stranger

    John Dyson Guest

    "Ralf-35" <> wrote in message
    news:chci4o$c78$03$-online.com...
    > The faster playback you won't be able to notice (try watching the same
    > movie(scene) in NTSC and PAL - you won't be able to tell the difference) -
    > the less defined picture quality though you will notice right away!
    >

    Truly, the 50Hz flicker causes PAL to be totally intolerable to me. SO,
    yes, I notice it -- even when looking away from the screen. Peripheral
    vision is even more sensitive to the flicker.

    WRT 'detail', the amount of difference between PAL component and NTSC
    component is really within variation between pieces of equipment. The
    flicker
    is like a bucket of cold water.

    John
    John Dyson, Sep 5, 2004
    #20
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