ntfs permissions

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Warwick, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    Hi,

    I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.

    All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    persists over reboots.

    Can anyone tell me how to manually unlock the files? I am comfortable with
    manually editing bits or bytes in the file if anyone can tell me which ones
    to change and with which values, or point me to a helpful online resource.

    At this stage I have no idea if ntfs binds this info into the file or keeps
    it in a table in the fat.

    Cheers and TIA
    Warwick, Apr 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. Warwick wrote:
    > I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    > sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >
    > All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    > likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    > persists over reboots.


    AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    E-Donkey isn't running on startup?

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock

    --
    http://www.sherlocksoftware.org
    Nicholas Sherlock, Apr 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. "Warwick" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    > sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >
    > All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    > likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    > persists over reboots.
    >
    > Can anyone tell me how to manually unlock the files? I am comfortable with
    > manually editing bits or bytes in the file if anyone can tell me which
    > ones
    > to change and with which values, or point me to a helpful online resource.
    >
    > At this stage I have no idea if ntfs binds this info into the file or
    > keeps
    > it in a table in the fat.
    >
    > Cheers and TIA


    I use this, which shows what is locking the file....

    http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/

    Works for me anyway
    news.xtra.co.nz, Apr 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:07:16 +1200, Nicholas Sherlock wrote:

    > Warwick wrote:
    >> I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    >> sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >>
    >> All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    >> likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    >> persists over reboots.

    >
    > AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    > E-Donkey isn't running on startup?
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nicholas Sherlock


    I am sure E Donkey is not running on start up. I couldn't tolerate that on
    dial up anyway, since the donkey takes all of my bandwidth.

    After googling on ntfs and then Access Control Lists it seems like the task
    is going to be bloody tricky, or maybe bloody easy if you have the right
    editing tool, which I can't find and probably only comes in XP pro...

    however I created a subfolder within E Donkey downloads, pasted copies of
    all the files into that and then copied the copies across the network
    without problems.

    Clumsy work around but it will sure do.

    thanks
    Warwick, Apr 6, 2006
    #4
  5. Warwick

    Peter Nield Guest

    "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    news:e12lnl$k3g$...
    > Warwick wrote:
    > > I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    > > sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    > >
    > > All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is

    most
    > > likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    > > persists over reboots.

    >
    > AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    > E-Donkey isn't running on startup?
    >

    Download processxp from sysinternals.com, and use the "Handles" search
    function to find the file that you're trying to work with. It will tell you
    which process has the file open, if it is open.

    Another trick is to start in safe mode.
    Peter Nield, Apr 6, 2006
    #5
  6. "Peter Nield" <> wrote in message
    news:e12q4o$t37$...
    >
    > "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    > news:e12lnl$k3g$...
    >> Warwick wrote:
    >> > I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    >> > sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >> >
    >> > All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is

    > most
    >> > likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This
    >> > problem
    >> > persists over reboots.

    >>
    >> AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    >> E-Donkey isn't running on startup?
    >>

    > Download processxp from sysinternals.com, and use the "Handles" search
    > function to find the file that you're trying to work with. It will tell
    > you
    > which process has the file open, if it is open.
    >
    > Another trick is to start in safe mode.
    >
    >


    This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this .

    really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.
    news.xtra.co.nz, Apr 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Warwick

    Brendan Guest

    On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:42:45 +1200, Warwick wrote:

    > I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    > sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >
    > All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    > likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    > persists over reboots.
    >
    > Can anyone tell me how to manually unlock the files? I am comfortable with
    > manually editing bits or bytes in the file if anyone can tell me which ones
    > to change and with which values, or point me to a helpful online resource.
    >
    > At this stage I have no idea if ntfs binds this info into the file or keeps
    > it in a table in the fat.


    I think you will find that something has changed the access permissions for
    those files.

    If edonky is running when you try to move the file, it may be locking it
    because it is being shared to others over the net. I use emule, which I
    find to be better. Try it. Verify it's not running with task manager,
    process list tab.

    Also check for spyware- it may be that those files are spyware and are
    locked due to being executed.

    Locked files show nothing in the file itself to make it lock; it's a
    function of the OS.

    Access permissions are special parts of the file system, for each file. You
    may be trying to copy them to a location that does not allow YOU to copy
    files there, or it may be that when you move them YOU do not have
    permission to delete the file once completed. Hence, error.

    If you are running XP Home, you may find it tricky to edit the file
    permissions - IIRC, Home does not have the permission editor. Might have in
    Safe mode though. My info on this might be out of date.

    Some other program may be locking the file - for some weird reason. If it's
    not edonkey. Follow the advice of the other poster about process-explorer
    to find out.

    Sometimes, if they are video files, windows explorer will lock them if they
    are corrupted in a certain subtle manner as it tries to read meta data from
    the file and gets snagged, often using 100% cpu in the process...

    Edonkey might have been installed under another account, probably with
    higher access rights than you. It may be able to write files to that
    location, as it has permission. But you may not have permissions to MOVE
    them.

    Also possible is your destination disk DOESN'T have the space for some
    tricky, transient reason. Is it a compressed drive/folder ? Maybe your swap
    file is too small - but I'd have thought that would generate out-of-memory
    errors..

    Solution: I'll give you $20 for the whole system, post included. It's
    obviously stuffed ;)

    --

    .... Brendan

    #50891 +(4604)- [X]

    <Eticam> I was in biology class once, and the teacher said there was sugar
    in sperm
    <Eticam> And a girl asked why doesn't it taste sweet then
    <Eticam> When she realised what she said her face became red like a spanked
    monkey ass
    <Eticam> Then the teacher said, because you taste sweetness with the front
    of your tongue, not the part of your tongue back in your throat
    <Eticam> The girl started crying and left class ^^


    Note: All my comments are copyright 6/04/2006 11:04:28 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
    Brendan, Apr 6, 2006
    #7
  8. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 23:24:35 +1200, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

    > This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this .
    >
    > really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.


    Couldn't agree more. I don;t know why Access Control is not indicated in
    the files properties. You can view the 'attributes' (actually everything is
    a file attribute, even the files data) from explorer edit/view/choose
    details. However all I can see is a single letter and nothing in help to
    indicate what it might mean, much less how it might be altered. Crazy shit.

    Not to worry, I have found a work around, kludgy as it is.

    cheers
    Warwick, Apr 6, 2006
    #8
  9. Warwick

    Warwick Guest

    On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 23:50:15 +1200, Brendan wrote:

    > On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:42:45 +1200, Warwick wrote:
    >
    >> I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    >> sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >>
    >> All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    >> likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    >> persists over reboots.
    >>
    >> Can anyone tell me how to manually unlock the files? I am comfortable with
    >> manually editing bits or bytes in the file if anyone can tell me which ones
    >> to change and with which values, or point me to a helpful online resource.
    >>
    >> At this stage I have no idea if ntfs binds this info into the file or keeps
    >> it in a table in the fat.

    >
    > I think you will find that something has changed the access permissions for
    > those files.
    >
    > If edonky is running when you try to move the file, it may be locking it
    > because it is being shared to others over the net. I use emule, which I
    > find to be better. Try it. Verify it's not running with task manager,
    > process list tab.
    >
    > Also check for spyware- it may be that those files are spyware and are
    > locked due to being executed.
    >
    > Locked files show nothing in the file itself to make it lock; it's a
    > function of the OS.
    >
    > Access permissions are special parts of the file system, for each file. You
    > may be trying to copy them to a location that does not allow YOU to copy
    > files there, or it may be that when you move them YOU do not have
    > permission to delete the file once completed. Hence, error.
    >
    > If you are running XP Home, you may find it tricky to edit the file
    > permissions - IIRC, Home does not have the permission editor. Might have in
    > Safe mode though. My info on this might be out of date.
    >
    > Some other program may be locking the file - for some weird reason. If it's
    > not edonkey. Follow the advice of the other poster about process-explorer
    > to find out.
    >
    > Sometimes, if they are video files, windows explorer will lock them if they
    > are corrupted in a certain subtle manner as it tries to read meta data from
    > the file and gets snagged, often using 100% cpu in the process...
    >
    > Edonkey might have been installed under another account, probably with
    > higher access rights than you. It may be able to write files to that
    > location, as it has permission. But you may not have permissions to MOVE
    > them.
    >
    > Also possible is your destination disk DOESN'T have the space for some
    > tricky, transient reason. Is it a compressed drive/folder ? Maybe your swap
    > file is too small - but I'd have thought that would generate out-of-memory
    > errors..
    >
    > Solution: I'll give you $20 for the whole system, post included. It's
    > obviously stuffed ;)


    I have eliminated all of the above, but thanks for the advice and the
    offer, which I will decline with regret. As inviting as it appears:)

    cheers
    Warwick, Apr 6, 2006
    #9
  10. Warwick

    Brendan Guest

    On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:30:30 +1200, Warwick wrote:

    > I have eliminated all of the above, but thanks for the advice and the
    > offer, which I will decline with regret. As inviting as it appears:)


    Lol!

    --

    .... Brendan

    #50891 +(4604)- [X]

    <Eticam> I was in biology class once, and the teacher said there was sugar
    in sperm
    <Eticam> And a girl asked why doesn't it taste sweet then
    <Eticam> When she realised what she said her face became red like a spanked
    monkey ass
    <Eticam> Then the teacher said, because you taste sweetness with the front
    of your tongue, not the part of your tongue back in your throat
    <Eticam> The girl started crying and left class ^^


    Note: All my comments are copyright 7/04/2006 10:45:18 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
    Brendan, Apr 6, 2006
    #10
  11. On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:24:35 +1200, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

    > This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this .
    >
    > really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.


    Something as fundamental as that should have already been built into DOS
    and WinNTx .


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Martin Taylor, GM of platform strategy at Microsoft: "We found
    that the Linux environment provided about 15 percent more end
    user loss of productivity." - *provided MORE loss of productivity*
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Warwick

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:24:35 +1200, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

    > This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this .
    >
    > really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.


    There will many more things locked in Vista eh?
    Gordon, Apr 7, 2006
    #12
  13. Warwick

    Enkidu Guest

    Warwick wrote:
    > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:07:16 +1200, Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Warwick wrote:
    >>
    >>>I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    >>>sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >>>
    >>>All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is most
    >>>likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This problem
    >>>persists over reboots.

    >>
    >>AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    >>E-Donkey isn't running on startup?
    >>
    >>Cheers,
    >>Nicholas Sherlock

    >
    >
    > I am sure E Donkey is not running on start up. I couldn't tolerate that on
    > dial up anyway, since the donkey takes all of my bandwidth.
    >
    > After googling on ntfs and then Access Control Lists it seems like the task
    > is going to be bloody tricky, or maybe bloody easy if you have the right
    > editing tool, which I can't find and probably only comes in XP pro...
    >
    > however I created a subfolder within E Donkey downloads, pasted copies of
    > all the files into that and then copied the copies across the network
    > without problems.
    >

    Don't try and frig the ACLs by hand - that is a good way to screw stuff,
    maybe the whole disk. Everything that you need to do can be done with
    the usual tools.

    If you are administrator and files are giving you permission problems,
    then you can take ownership, then set the permissions as you choose. No
    need to tinker at a lower level.

    The key is - take ownership, then set permissions.

    However, the error you mention doesn't seem to be a permissions one on
    the face of it. What were you actually doing at the time?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Apr 7, 2006
    #13
  14. Warwick

    Enkidu Guest

    Warwick wrote:
    > On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 23:24:35 +1200, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >
    >
    >> This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this
    >> .
    >>
    >> really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.

    >
    >
    > Couldn't agree more. I don;t know why Access Control is not indicated
    > in the files properties. You can view the 'attributes' (actually
    > everything is a file attribute, even the files data) from explorer
    > edit/view/choose details. However all I can see is a single letter
    > and nothing in help to indicate what it might mean, much less how it
    > might be altered. Crazy shit.
    >

    It's not an attribute. It's permissions. You should see a permissions
    tab and you can see *all* the ACL details you might want.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Apr 7, 2006
    #14
  15. Warwick

    Enkidu Guest

    news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    > "Peter Nield" <> wrote in message
    > news:e12q4o$t37$...
    >
    >>"Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    >>news:e12lnl$k3g$...
    >>
    >>>Warwick wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I have a problem copy pasting files. Windows is denying access - ' make
    >>>>sure the disk is not full or write protected blah blah blah'.
    >>>>
    >>>>All of the files are E-Donkey downloads (mp3, zip and rar), and it is

    >>
    >>most
    >>
    >>>>likely E-Donkey locking the file and then not unlocking it. This
    >>>>problem
    >>>>persists over reboots.
    >>>
    >>>AFAIK, locked files don't persist over reboots. Are you sure that
    >>>E-Donkey isn't running on startup?
    >>>

    >>
    >>Download processxp from sysinternals.com, and use the "Handles" search
    >>function to find the file that you're trying to work with. It will tell
    >>you
    >>which process has the file open, if it is open.
    >>
    >>Another trick is to start in safe mode.

    >
    > This should be a function of the operating system to tell you this .
    > really is shit, hope they fix this in vista.
    >

    There is. Right click "My Computer", select "Manage" and follow your
    nose from there.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Apr 7, 2006
    #15
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