Novell should eat its own dogfood.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. Novell still running Windows - So What?

    http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand:
    How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    David Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > Novell still running Windows - So What?
    >
    > http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    different for Novell?
     
    David, Apr 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    David Guest

    David wrote:
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >> Novell still running Windows - So What?
    >>
    >> http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml
    >>
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>

    >
    > Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    > allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    > different for Novell?


    Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    operating system they feel like running."?
    Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.
     
    David, Apr 13, 2006
    #3
  4. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <hik%f.12842$>,
    says...
    > David wrote:
    > > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > >> Novell still running Windows - So What?
    > >>
    > >> http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    > >>

    > >
    > > Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    > > allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    > > different for Novell?

    >
    > Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    > comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    > operating system they feel like running."?
    > Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.


    Who knows, tea towel has a mind of his own. I think it's full of tea
    bags.

    --
    Duncan
     
    Dave Doe, Apr 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    Michael Daly Guest

    David <> wrote:

    >David wrote:
    >>
    >> Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    >> allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    >> different for Novell?

    >
    >Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    >comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    >operating system they feel like running."?
    >Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.


    I suspect that he was referring to the fact that Novell now own Suse
    Linux (my preferred Linux distro). Perhaps this is a reflection of the
    fact that Linux doesn't yet have the business packages firms want.

    Michael Daly
     
    Michael Daly, Apr 13, 2006
    #5
  6. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:18:50 +1200, David wrote:

    > David wrote:
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>> Novell still running Windows - So What?
    >>>
    >>> http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>>

    >>
    >> Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    >> allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    >> different for Novell?

    >
    > Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    > comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    > operating system they feel like running."?
    > Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.


    There is no sarcasm.

    If Novell produces a desktop OS that it things is good enough to sell to
    other people then it should be using its own desktop - not least being to
    find out how to improve the thing!


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #6
  7. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:18:50 +1200, David wrote:
    >
    >
    >>David wrote:
    >>
    >>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Novell still running Windows - So What?
    >>>>
    >>>>http://www.osdir.com/Article8544.phtml
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    >>>allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    >>>different for Novell?

    >>
    >>Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    >>comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    >>operating system they feel like running."?
    >>Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.

    >
    >
    > There is no sarcasm.
    >
    > If Novell produces a desktop OS that it things is good enough to sell to
    > other people then it should be using its own desktop - not least being to
    > find out how to improve the thing!
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    yep, certianly Sun demo'd their java desktop with the cliam that is what
    they use.

    The "common" use I have heard for "eat your own dog food" referred to MS
    migrating hotmail to a MS OS and away from Solaris and BSD...It was a PR
    disater for MS as long as Hotmail stayed on Unix so eventually they
    managed to change. Ditto Novell if they are serious about selling Suse
    as a desktop they should be eating their own dog food pure and simple.....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Michael Daly wrote:
    > David <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>David wrote:
    >>
    >>>Eh? I don't get it. Who cares if they run windows? Everyone else is
    >>>allowed to run windows (if they pay for it). Why should it be any
    >>>different for Novell?

    >>
    >>Hmmmm, this is hard to understand. Is cup of tea agreeing with the
    >>comments on that site, ie. "People should be able to run whatever
    >>operating system they feel like running."?
    >>Seems more likely he's being sarcastic.

    >
    >
    > I suspect that he was referring to the fact that Novell now own Suse
    > Linux (my preferred Linux distro). Perhaps this is a reflection of the
    > fact that Linux doesn't yet have the business packages firms want.
    >
    > Michael Daly


    Depends on the packages that are needed, for my use I have a thin client
    to a linux server and ssh / rdesktop to other servers from there....It
    is easier and more stable to do this in my circumstances, so I am more
    productive.

    Lots of applications these days are moving to a web browser as the
    interface. I can either use Navisphere on the SANs from IE or Mozilla it
    does not matter....webmin to manage Linux/Unix boxes....Communigate
    Pro....as this accelerates whether it is IE or Firefox will not matter.

    OWA.......for mail from anywhere in the world....

    The OS is becoming less and less of an issue, fighting to own the
    desktop is not the battle to win in the longer term.....

    As this happens more and more companies are going to say, all my apps
    are web based, why do I care what the OS is?

    Why do I need a thick client / server delivery model?

    Case in point Sun manage 30,000 users with 7 administrators. The servers
    are centrally located in the US and the helpdesks in India connect to
    them over the pacific...there is nothing intelligent at the Indian end,
    just a screen, keyboard and mouse....

    The Sun ray I think costs Sun something like $75 per annum to look
    after, a Sun java desktop circa $700 and a windows desktop
    $1300....these are not invented costs, this is what Sun pays EDS per
    client per year....

    Lets multiply 30,000 users by $75, $700 and $1300....

    Thin client = $2.25Million

    Linux = $21Million

    Windows = $39Million.....

    If a sunray breaks a new ones turns up and the chances are the user
    themselves will be able to swap it out and get working, no support on
    site needed....Fedex cost, less than a thick client.....lets face it if
    a user cannot plug it into the mains, plug in a ethernet cable and a
    keyboard and mouse they probably are not worth employing.....

    Thick client issue? body on site......need a new box? higher fedex cost
    due to weight, plus an increase likelyhood of a DOA....

    Lets look at one of my favourite little projects at the
    moment....running 4~6 desktops off one linux thick client.....

    So six people, one thick client, 5 thin = $3.5Million + $1.875 Million =
    Circa 6 Million, but local USB ports are available plus of course
    videos/dvds and audio are now available.......lose a box of course and 6
    people are out.....
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #8
  9. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:59:17 +1200, Michael Daly wrote:

    > I suspect that he was referring to the fact that Novell now own Suse
    > Linux (my preferred Linux distro). Perhaps this is a reflection of the
    > fact that Linux doesn't yet have the business packages firms want.


    I use SuSE Linux. Novell owns the SuSE Linux distro. Novell recently
    changed over the majority of its desktops from being Windoze desktops to
    being SuSE desktops.

    Novell SHOULD be using it's own desktop - if for no other reason other
    than to improve its own product.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #9
  10. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:59:17 +1200, Michael Daly wrote:

    > Perhaps this is a reflection of the
    > fact that Linux doesn't yet have the business packages firms want.


    Of course Linux does not have every package available. For example,
    Micro$oft Office cannot work on Linux, even tho' it does work on MacBSD.

    But Linux DOES have Open Office, and Star Office, and K-Office.

    Linux DOES need to have the Adobe suite ported over from MacBSD.

    Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    again need to learn something new.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #10
  11. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:59:17 +1200, Michael Daly wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Perhaps this is a reflection of the
    >>fact that Linux doesn't yet have the business packages firms want.

    >
    >
    > Of course Linux does not have every package available. For example,
    > Micro$oft Office cannot work on Linux, even tho' it does work on MacBSD.
    >
    > But Linux DOES have Open Office, and Star Office, and K-Office.
    >
    > Linux DOES need to have the Adobe suite ported over from MacBSD.
    >
    > Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    > again need to learn something new.


    I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?

    regards

    Thing


    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #11
  12. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:12:30 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > The "common" use I have heard for "eat your own dog food" referred to MS
    > migrating hotmail to a MS OS and away from Solaris and BSD...It was a PR
    > disater for MS as long as Hotmail stayed on Unix so eventually they
    > managed to change. Ditto Novell if they are serious about selling Suse
    > as a desktop they should be eating their own dog food pure and simple.


    I thought that the backend at Hotmail is still Solaris.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #12
  13. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:36:36 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > lets face it if
    > a user cannot plug it into the mains, plug in a ethernet cable and a
    > keyboard and mouse they probably are not worth employing.....


    I know people who, if their keyboard cable came unplugged, quite literally
    would not know how to get their keyboard connected again. They can barely
    cope with Micro$oft Windoze. The wouldn't be able to cope with anything
    more flexible than that.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "When a company starts fighting over IP, it's a
    sign they've lost the real battle, for users."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #13
  14. On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:11:38 +1200, thingy wrote:

    >> Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    >> again need to learn something new.

    >
    > I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?


    A MYOB clone released under the GPL?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand:
    How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 13, 2006
    #14
  15. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:11:38 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    >>>again need to learn something new.

    >>
    >>I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?

    >
    >
    > A MYOB clone released under the GPL?
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Yeah I think so....I had a very quick look on freshmeat.net but could
    nto see anything....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #15
  16. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:12:30 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The "common" use I have heard for "eat your own dog food" referred to MS
    >>migrating hotmail to a MS OS and away from Solaris and BSD...It was a PR
    >>disater for MS as long as Hotmail stayed on Unix so eventually they
    >>managed to change. Ditto Novell if they are serious about selling Suse
    >>as a desktop they should be eating their own dog food pure and simple.

    >
    >
    > I thought that the backend at Hotmail is still Solaris.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    Not that I am aware of....I would think Sun would be crowing about it....

    It would be interesting to know what if any the increase in costs were...

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #16
  17. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:11:38 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    >>>again need to learn something new.

    >>
    >>I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?

    >
    >
    > A MYOB clone released under the GPL?
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    I found this....

    http://freshmeat.net/projects/fruitybanking/

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 13, 2006
    #17
  18. On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:16:50 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:11:38 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    >>>>again need to learn something new.
    >>>
    >>>I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?

    >>
    >>
    >> A MYOB clone released under the GPL?
    >>
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>

    >
    > I found this....
    >
    > http://freshmeat.net/projects/fruitybanking/


    Interesting.

    But you can see who this project is targeting - the features of that
    *accounting* package are:

    * GPL licensed.

    * Intuitive, clear, Web-based interface

    * Runs under any CGI-enabled webserver

    * SQLite 2/3 backend and simple database structure make it easy to write
    scripts in any language (MySQL and PostgreSQL optional).

    * Cross platform/portable and will run on Windows, OSX, Linux, *BSD, etc.

    * Reporting engine with income/expenditure breakdown - balance sheet and
    profit/loss for next release.


    I think this package has great potential. But there is at least one other
    accounting package out there that I know of that is GPL licenced and that
    is aiming for the commercial accounting market.

    None of them are feature complete.

    This one, however, seems to be going about it the right way - in a browser
    interface.

    Thing, I've sent an email to you, but because I use a dialup connection
    and somebody is using ORBS to block email from non-static IPs, my server
    has not been able to deliver it to you. I'll re-send using Telecom's
    server.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 14, 2006
    #18
  19. On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:15:09 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:12:30 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The "common" use I have heard for "eat your own dog food" referred to MS
    >>>migrating hotmail to a MS OS and away from Solaris and BSD...It was a PR
    >>>disater for MS as long as Hotmail stayed on Unix so eventually they
    >>>managed to change. Ditto Novell if they are serious about selling Suse
    >>>as a desktop they should be eating their own dog food pure and simple.

    >>
    >>
    >> I thought that the backend at Hotmail is still Solaris.
    >>
    >>
    >> Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>

    >
    > Not that I am aware of....I would think Sun would be crowing about it....
    >
    > It would be interesting to know what if any the increase in costs were...


    The last time Hotmail was discussed in detail on nz.comp all the front end
    servers had been changed over to IIS, but there were a few that were
    either unidentified or that were still Unix of some sort.

    I'm sure that the Nathanbot would be able to indicate what actual systems
    are in use if he is permitted to post info on Micro$oft's usage of non-M$
    software.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Apr 14, 2006
    #19
  20. Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    thingy Guest

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    > On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:16:50 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Have A Nice Cup of Tea wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:11:38 +1200, thingy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>Linux DOES need MYOB ported over - so that the accounting morons won't
    >>>>>again need to learn something new.
    >>>>
    >>>>I think there is a OSS MYOB package....?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>A MYOB clone released under the GPL?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >>>

    >>
    >>I found this....
    >>
    >>http://freshmeat.net/projects/fruitybanking/

    >
    >
    > Interesting.
    >
    > But you can see who this project is targeting - the features of that
    > *accounting* package are:
    >
    > * GPL licensed.
    >
    > * Intuitive, clear, Web-based interface
    >
    > * Runs under any CGI-enabled webserver
    >
    > * SQLite 2/3 backend and simple database structure make it easy to write
    > scripts in any language (MySQL and PostgreSQL optional).
    >
    > * Cross platform/portable and will run on Windows, OSX, Linux, *BSD, etc.
    >
    > * Reporting engine with income/expenditure breakdown - balance sheet and
    > profit/loss for next release.
    >
    >
    > I think this package has great potential. But there is at least one other
    > accounting package out there that I know of that is GPL licenced and that
    > is aiming for the commercial accounting market.
    >
    > None of them are feature complete.
    >
    > This one, however, seems to be going about it the right way - in a browser
    > interface.
    >
    > Thing, I've sent an email to you, but because I use a dialup connection
    > and somebody is using ORBS to block email from non-static IPs, my server
    > has not been able to deliver it to you. I'll re-send using Telecom's
    > server.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >


    I am using RBLs.....but it is not blocking portable IPs as far as I
    know. Will have a look in the logs, I am greylisting so if it is your
    first connect you get blocked for 58 nminutes....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Apr 15, 2006
    #20
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