Not ready for prime time

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by John Barnes, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. John Barnes

    John Barnes Guest

    Since this is a gap system, Microsoft has assigned NOTHING to differentiate
    it from XP. Therefore programs designated XP, may or may not install on
    this system. Most of the programs I have tried to install which aren't
    compatible say to contact the program supplier and stop. Last night I tried
    to install a program for XP.
    It got to the point of 'installing drivers' and it froze. It was using the
    Windows InstallShield. The only way to stop it was to use task manager.
    Figured I would do the same as XP32 and do a system restore, and delete its
    files from the Programs file.
    So far so good. There was a restore point set before the install. I
    selected it and everything seemed fine, but when the system rebooted it
    stopped with the desktop and no icons. I gave it an hour to finish the
    restore and load the desktop, but nothing. I then turned off the computer
    as no shutdown was available. No task bar and cntl/alt.delete didn't do
    anything. The next time it loaded to the desktop with icons and taskbar.
    However the taskbar has no field for running programs. Just the start,
    quickstart (when enabled) notification area and clock (when enabled). The
    network connections also disappeared and one installed program I tried to
    run never finished loading and another said the media player was not
    installed, while the windows media player would say insufficient memory when
    only 179k out of 2 gig was being used.
    Tried system restore, but it said it was not available to protect the
    computer, to restart and run System Restore, but after 4 restarts with the
    same problems, it is obvious that this won't work either.
    At this point, it seems the only alternative I have is to wipe the partition
    and reinstall x64 and then again those programs that will install.
    Thankfully I kept my x32 license and only wasted $140 on a system that
    virtually no programs will be written for (since they will be coding for
    Longhorn) and Microsoft's own staff probably been shifted also leaving
    another WindowsME situation. (all you have to do is listen to any computer
    show on radio and you can hear what a disaster that was, though I personally
    had no problems with it). Since I have a life other than playing with an
    experimental system, I don't know when I will have the time to reload
    everything.
    Also it would be helpful to know what designation to look for in a program.
    Windows 2000/2003/9x/XP
    Windows 2000/XP
    Windows XP
    Windows (All)

    Since this isn't built on the same code base as XP, what should we be
    looking for?
    John Barnes, Jun 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. John, Windows XP Pro x64 can NOT install 32 bit drivers. It is a true 64 bit
    operating system. It is built on the same codebase as Windows Server 2003
    SP1 x64.

    Most 32bit games will install, unless they need their own 32bit drivers.
    Office XP, Avast Anti-Virus,Christ-TV, Cool Edit Pro 2.1, Flight Simulator
    2004, Roxio 7.1.1 (Do a selective install and unselect Drag to Disc),
    Winzip, Winrar, etc....


    Wayne
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. John Barnes

    John Barnes Guest

    Since there seems to be no way to determine which programs might have
    drivers, windows installer should stop, give a message about incompatible
    drivers and backout anything installed to that point, as it does with the
    x32 XP. It should not freeze and destroy the system. A number of other
    programs have messages at the start of the install that say it is
    incompatible and to contact the program supplier about a newer version.
    Don't know about you but when I get a reply about their intention of
    providing a 64-bit version they say that the base is too small to make it
    worth the effort. Thanks for the heads up on Roxio, does it burn DVD's or
    just CD's?
    I have reinstalled from a Ghost backup I had on 6-1 so haven't lost much. I
    still have to use my x32 as to little that I use will install or function
    properly on x64. It is just a toy system for me at this point, fewer
    supported programs than Linnux.


    "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > John, Windows XP Pro x64 can NOT install 32 bit drivers. It is a true 64
    > bit operating system. It is built on the same codebase as Windows Server
    > 2003 SP1 x64.
    >
    > Most 32bit games will install, unless they need their own 32bit drivers.
    > Office XP, Avast Anti-Virus,Christ-TV, Cool Edit Pro 2.1, Flight Simulator
    > 2004, Roxio 7.1.1 (Do a selective install and unselect Drag to Disc),
    > Winzip, Winrar, etc....
    >
    >
    > Wayne
    >
    >
    >
    John Barnes, Jun 5, 2005
    #3
  4. John Barnes wrote:
    > Since there seems to be no way to determine which programs might have
    > drivers, windows installer should stop, give a message about
    > incompatible drivers and backout anything installed to that point, as
    > it does with the x32 XP. It should not freeze and destroy the
    > system. A number of other programs have messages at the start of the
    > install that say it is incompatible and to contact the program
    > supplier about a newer version. Don't know about you but when I get a
    > reply about their intention of providing a 64-bit version they say
    > that the base is too small to make it worth the effort. Thanks for
    > the heads up on Roxio, does it burn DVD's or just CD's?
    > I have reinstalled from a Ghost backup I had on 6-1 so haven't lost
    > much. I still have to use my x32 as to little that I use will
    > install or function properly on x64. It is just a toy system for me
    > at this point, fewer supported programs than Linnux.
    >
    >


    Roxio does burn both DVD's and CD's. Just about all of Symantec's programs
    fail to work in XP x64. And Symantec is not the company it once was.

    Here is what I do before I try to install any program either in XP Pro, or
    XP Pro x64. I clear the all temp files from the HD, then create a restore
    point, and reboot with minimal programs loaded by going into msconfig and
    unticking all unecearry programs in the Startup folder. Then afte a good
    install I go back into msconfig and tick Normal Startup under General and
    reboot once more. However, if the install went awry, I do a restore and
    reboot. :)



    Wayne
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Maybe it's just me but unless something specifically had the differential
    Microsoft HAS assigned (You know, "x64 Edition"?) I wouldn't assume it would
    work since it isn't noted to do so. Graphics drivers, sound drivers, Saitek
    drivers, even Far Cry 64 all make specific "x64" references. Heck, even
    Linux distro's use the "x64" `differential` to state compatibility.
    Not Microsofts fault, much as I'd like to blame them, if 3rd parties aren't
    tagging things with x64 Edition on their compatibility notes yet. It's a new
    OS. They can't guarantee compatibility for software if the manufacturers
    aren't.
    B.V.
    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Since this is a gap system, Microsoft has assigned NOTHING to
    > differentiate it from XP. Therefore programs designated XP, may or may
    > not install on this system. Most of the programs I have tried to install
    > which aren't compatible say to contact the program supplier and stop.
    > Last night I tried to install a program for XP.
    Billie Volkova, Jun 5, 2005
    #5
  6. John Barnes

    Jud Hendrix Guest

    On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:07:19 +0100, "Billie Volkova"
    <> wrote:

    >Not Microsofts fault, much as I'd like to blame them, if 3rd parties aren't
    >tagging things with x64 Edition on their compatibility notes yet. It's a new
    >OS. They can't guarantee compatibility for software if the manufacturers
    >aren't.


    That's exactly the problem. And it makes no sense to blame MS for
    that, but rather it makes more sense to start e-mailing the
    manufacturers of your (not you, Billie, specific, but in general)
    hardware, and ask for 64-bit drivers. The more people do this, the
    more they start seeing the need for it. But of course, this depends on
    if the product you ask for, is still current.

    jud
    Jud Hendrix, Jun 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Jud Hendrix <> wrote:
    > On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:07:19 +0100, "Billie Volkova"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Not Microsofts fault, much as I'd like to blame them, if 3rd parties
    >> aren't tagging things with x64 Edition on their compatibility notes
    >> yet. It's a new OS. They can't guarantee compatibility for software
    >> if the manufacturers aren't.

    >
    > That's exactly the problem. And it makes no sense to blame MS for
    > that, but rather it makes more sense to start e-mailing the
    > manufacturers of your (not you, Billie, specific, but in general)
    > hardware, and ask for 64-bit drivers. The more people do this, the
    > more they start seeing the need for it. But of course, this depends on
    > if the product you ask for, is still current.
    >
    > jud


    I can't agree more with you ;)
    Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send a mail
    to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)

    --
    Christian Hougardy (MS XP MVP)
    Johannesburg - South Africa
    http://msmvps.com/xpditif
    Christian Hougardy, Jun 5, 2005
    #7
  8. Christian Hougardy wrote:

    >
    > I can't agree more with you ;)
    > Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send
    > a mail to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)


    You know I actually sent Viewsonic drivers that I decorated to show them how
    it's done. They didn't even acknowledge receipt of my email, let alone post
    any Windows XP x64 ready drivers on their site. Just to make sure, I resent
    them a couple of weeks ago, but still no response.


    Wayne
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 5, 2005
    #8
  9. John Barnes

    Jud Hendrix Guest

    On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:02:31 +0200, "Christian Hougardy"
    <> wrote:

    >Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send a mail
    >to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)


    LOL

    Of course we need to keep the proper e-mail adressess on there, where
    to send our requests.

    jud
    Jud Hendrix, Jun 5, 2005
    #9
  10. Or create a little banner like the Download FireFox campaign to "Create
    64-bit Drivers" that can be placed on popular websites such as Extended64,
    ActiveWin, NeoWin, Bink, eWeek, Microsoft-Watch, Lockergnome.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

    "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Christian Hougardy wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I can't agree more with you ;)
    >> Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send
    >> a mail to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)

    >
    > You know I actually sent Viewsonic drivers that I decorated to show them
    > how it's done. They didn't even acknowledge receipt of my email, let alone
    > post any Windows XP x64 ready drivers on their site. Just to make sure, I
    > resent them a couple of weeks ago, but still no response.
    >
    >
    > Wayne
    >
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jun 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Actually, things like this may not be such a bad idea. If someone were to
    set up an easier way than having to email the companies individually they
    may start to get that the demand is increasing. After all, MS are having
    trouble just supplying enough copies of x64. Now THAT'S demand. ;)

    "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Or create a little banner like the Download FireFox campaign to "Create
    > 64-bit Drivers" that can be placed on popular websites such as Extended64,
    > ActiveWin, NeoWin, Bink, eWeek, Microsoft-Watch, Lockergnome.
    > --
    > Andre
    > Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    > Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    > http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    > FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    >
    > "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Christian Hougardy wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I can't agree more with you ;)
    >>> Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send
    >>> a mail to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)

    >>
    >> You know I actually sent Viewsonic drivers that I decorated to show them
    >> how it's done. They didn't even acknowledge receipt of my email, let
    >> alone post any Windows XP x64 ready drivers on their site. Just to make
    >> sure, I resent them a couple of weeks ago, but still no response.
    >>
    >>
    >> Wayne
    >>

    >
    >
    Billie Volkova, Jun 6, 2005
    #11
  12. John Barnes

    John Barnes Guest

    The only place there is a problem with supply is the ' free' upgrade. You
    can pay $140 and get as many copies as you want, and have been able for many
    weeks now.
    I personally feel sorry for those who give up their XP license for the new
    system and find out how useless it is for the average user that it is. I
    know that it wasn't built for them anyway, which is the point. Since it is
    mainly for gamers and video renderers it is not worth the effort for
    software or hardware vendors to support it. Most will be coding for
    Longhorn, and if it is done early and works with this 'interim' system they
    may release early. With all the problems I have had with the system, it is
    no way near being useful. I hope no one is depending on System Restore to
    undo a problem like on XP and finds out like I did that it totally hoses the
    system. Empty network folder, programs no longer able to load, etc. A
    system restore message that says it can't protect the computer and to reboot
    and NOTHING changes. Hope everyone else has a total system backup (like
    Ghost). Fortunately I only lost 5 days of material and since it is only a
    toy system for me, there wasn't much I had to redo.



    "Billie Volkova" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Actually, things like this may not be such a bad idea. If someone were to
    > set up an easier way than having to email the companies individually they
    > may start to get that the demand is increasing. After all, MS are having
    > trouble just supplying enough copies of x64. Now THAT'S demand. ;)
    >
    > "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Or create a little banner like the Download FireFox campaign to "Create
    >> 64-bit Drivers" that can be placed on popular websites such as
    >> Extended64, ActiveWin, NeoWin, Bink, eWeek, Microsoft-Watch, Lockergnome.
    >> --
    >> Andre
    >> Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    >> Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    >> http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    >> FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    >>
    >> "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> Christian Hougardy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I can't agree more with you ;)
    >>>> Maybe we should start a list here and every day, one of us will send
    >>>> a mail to a different manufacturer to ask for 64bit drivers ;)
    >>>
    >>> You know I actually sent Viewsonic drivers that I decorated to show them
    >>> how it's done. They didn't even acknowledge receipt of my email, let
    >>> alone post any Windows XP x64 ready drivers on their site. Just to make
    >>> sure, I resent them a couple of weeks ago, but still no response.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Wayne
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    John Barnes, Jun 6, 2005
    #12
  13. John Barnes wrote:
    -snip-.
    > I personally feel sorry for those who give up their XP license for
    > the new system and find out how useless it is for the average user
    > that it is. I know that it wasn't built for them anyway, which is
    > the point.


    The average user? The average person doesn't go out and purchase a 64 bit
    based computer system and NOT want a 64 bit OS to go with it.





    Wayne
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 6, 2005
    #13
  14. John Barnes

    John Barnes Guest

    I hope you don't have the nightmare scenario with system restore x64 I had,
    where it trashed the whole system. At least now I know to do a full Ghost
    image before I install any software in this system. System Restore cannot
    be trusted in my setup. Don't know about others. So many anomalies in this
    system the Microsoft techies can't or won't suggest fixes for.


    "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    news:u$...
    > John Barnes wrote:
    >> Since there seems to be no way to determine which programs might have
    >> drivers, windows installer should stop, give a message about
    >> incompatible drivers and backout anything installed to that point, as
    >> it does with the x32 XP. It should not freeze and destroy the
    >> system. A number of other programs have messages at the start of the
    >> install that say it is incompatible and to contact the program
    >> supplier about a newer version. Don't know about you but when I get a
    >> reply about their intention of providing a 64-bit version they say
    >> that the base is too small to make it worth the effort. Thanks for
    >> the heads up on Roxio, does it burn DVD's or just CD's?
    >> I have reinstalled from a Ghost backup I had on 6-1 so haven't lost
    >> much. I still have to use my x32 as to little that I use will
    >> install or function properly on x64. It is just a toy system for me
    >> at this point, fewer supported programs than Linnux.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Roxio does burn both DVD's and CD's. Just about all of Symantec's
    > programs fail to work in XP x64. And Symantec is not the company it once
    > was.
    >
    > Here is what I do before I try to install any program either in XP Pro, or
    > XP Pro x64. I clear the all temp files from the HD, then create a restore
    > point, and reboot with minimal programs loaded by going into msconfig and
    > unticking all unecearry programs in the Startup folder. Then afte a good
    > install I go back into msconfig and tick Normal Startup under General and
    > reboot once more. However, if the install went awry, I do a restore and
    > reboot. :)
    >
    >
    >
    > Wayne
    >
    John Barnes, Jun 6, 2005
    #14
  15. John Barnes wrote:
    > I hope you don't have the nightmare scenario with system restore x64
    > I had, where it trashed the whole system. At least now I know to do
    > a full Ghost image before I install any software in this system. System
    > Restore cannot be trusted in my setup. Don't know about
    > others. So many anomalies in this system the Microsoft techies can't
    > or won't suggest fixes for.
    >


    No, but then again I have been in the PC industry for over 20 years. I know
    what programs want what and why. But thanks. That is a nice wish. :)
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 6, 2005
    #15
  16. John Barnes

    John Barnes Guest

    Wont is nice, but when the available system (x64) is incapable of handling
    everyday tasks, it isn't useful for the average user. It may be fun to play
    with, but until programs are written and drivers are written for it, most
    users would be best advised to buy the 64-bit chip for future upgradeability
    and stick with the 32 bit XP for now. If your programs and hardware work
    with the system, great for you. But I bet that most users buying up from
    current systems will be quite unhappy when they find out much of their
    hardware and software have to be trashed and if they are unlucky like me and
    find out that System Restore trashes the whole system, that will just add to
    their frustration. I don't know if Ghost works on x64 as I have it
    installed on my 32 system and use that to backup x64, but if I didn't, I
    would be staring from scratch again today. What average user wants the
    grief, but doesn't want to be able to upgrade when the product becomes
    supported. Most hardware and software developers know it is the future but
    is now just a gamers and geeks system not worth bothering about. My average
    reply when one is even offered.

    Yes but not compared to the total base of XXX users.

    XXX is coded in pure win32asm. It would be a huge undertaking
    to add support for WinXP 64 bit at this time.

    We are rewriting XXX in C for v5.0 this will allow many things
    including the ability to easily add 64 bit support.

    On 32 bit systems XXX works great. So we hope you enjoy it there
    until we can get a 64 bit version out.

    or hardware

    At this time, XXX has not announced, or provide any 64-bit drivers or
    support for consumer products. I do understand your concerns, and
    apologize for any inconvenience. Your comments are noted and will be
    passed on. Please let us know if we can be of any other assistance with
    the printer.





    "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > John Barnes wrote:
    > -snip-.
    >> I personally feel sorry for those who give up their XP license for
    >> the new system and find out how useless it is for the average user
    >> that it is. I know that it wasn't built for them anyway, which is
    >> the point.

    >
    > The average user? The average person doesn't go out and purchase a 64 bit
    > based computer system and NOT want a 64 bit OS to go with it.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Wayne
    >
    John Barnes, Jun 6, 2005
    #16
  17. John Barnes

    Keith Guest

    When I bult my first Athlon64 system, it was not because of XP64 coming...it
    was because the A64 has an integrated memory controller it is faster for,
    you guessed it, GAMES...of which I play a fair amount. Now the beta testing
    program, I was able to get in on since I did have a 64 bit cpu to run it on.
    That was nice and I am really enjoying the 64bit OS. Of course I consider
    myself far above the "average" user that barely understands the difference
    between 32 and 64 bit hardware/software. The only thing I do not have
    working under x64 is my Leadtek TV Tuner/Capture card....silly Leadtek, been
    promising drivers since december 2004, still none yet...

    Keith Schaefer
    south Texas


    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:uad$...
    > Wont is nice, but when the available system (x64) is incapable of handling
    > everyday tasks, it isn't useful for the average user. It may be fun to

    play
    > with, but until programs are written and drivers are written for it, most
    > users would be best advised to buy the 64-bit chip for future

    upgradeability
    > and stick with the 32 bit XP for now. If your programs and hardware work
    > with the system, great for you. But I bet that most users buying up from
    > current systems will be quite unhappy when they find out much of their
    > hardware and software have to be trashed and if they are unlucky like me

    and
    > find out that System Restore trashes the whole system, that will just add

    to
    > their frustration. I don't know if Ghost works on x64 as I have it
    > installed on my 32 system and use that to backup x64, but if I didn't, I
    > would be staring from scratch again today. What average user wants the
    > grief, but doesn't want to be able to upgrade when the product becomes
    > supported. Most hardware and software developers know it is the future

    but
    > is now just a gamers and geeks system not worth bothering about. My

    average
    > reply when one is even offered.
    >
    > Yes but not compared to the total base of XXX users.
    >
    > XXX is coded in pure win32asm. It would be a huge undertaking
    > to add support for WinXP 64 bit at this time.
    >
    > We are rewriting XXX in C for v5.0 this will allow many things
    > including the ability to easily add 64 bit support.
    >
    > On 32 bit systems XXX works great. So we hope you enjoy it there
    > until we can get a 64 bit version out.
    >
    > or hardware
    >
    > At this time, XXX has not announced, or provide any 64-bit drivers or
    > support for consumer products. I do understand your concerns, and
    > apologize for any inconvenience. Your comments are noted and will be
    > passed on. Please let us know if we can be of any other assistance with
    > the printer.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    > > John Barnes wrote:
    > > -snip-.
    > >> I personally feel sorry for those who give up their XP license for
    > >> the new system and find out how useless it is for the average user
    > >> that it is. I know that it wasn't built for them anyway, which is
    > >> the point.

    > >
    > > The average user? The average person doesn't go out and purchase a 64

    bit
    > > based computer system and NOT want a 64 bit OS to go with it.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Wayne
    > >

    >
    >
    Keith, Jun 6, 2005
    #17
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