Not Computer Related Q

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Dr. Memory, May 8, 2006.

  1. Dr. Memory

    Dr. Memory Guest

    I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))

    I know this guy who is homeless.
    He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me to
    GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    I don't have the means to give him anything.
    I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    Should I do more?

    Is there an answer?
     
    Dr. Memory, May 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. Dr. Memory

    Scraggy Guest

    Dr. Memory wrote:
    > I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    > some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    > spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >
    > I know this guy who is homeless.
    > He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    > I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    > He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me to
    > GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    > cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    > I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    > figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    > I don't have the means to give him anything.
    > I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    > Should I do more?
    >
    > Is there an answer?


    9mm. Double tap.
    --
    I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as
    members. Groucho Marx
     
    Scraggy, May 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. Dr. Memory

    beenthere Guest

    "Dr. Memory" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    > some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    > spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >
    > I know this guy who is homeless.
    >

    Some people are adequate, some are not.
    Some people can cope others cannot.
    Everone knows life can be a B*st*rd.
    You don`t owe him anything, so just point him toward
    a bunch of `do-gooders`.
    They turn the other cheek you know <g>.
     
    beenthere, May 8, 2006
    #3
  4. 真诚的欢迎朋å‹ä»¬å…‰ä¸´è‡ªç”±å¤©ç©º.首先请注册æˆä¸ºæˆ‘们的会员.论å›åœ°å€http://tongsaojun.lun123.com
    注册åŽè¿˜å¯ä»¥åœ¨çº¿ä¸Šä¼ ç½‘页,FTP下载,æˆåŠŸå­¦å­¦ä¹ 
     
    =?utf-8?B?5oiQ5Yqf5LmL6Lev?=, May 8, 2006
    #4
  5. Dr. Memory

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 08 May 2006 06:33:14 -0400, Dr. Memory <>
    wrote:

    >I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    >some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    >spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >
    >I know this guy who is homeless.
    >He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    >I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    >He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me to
    >GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    >cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    >I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    >figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    >I don't have the means to give him anything.
    >I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    >Should I do more?
    >
    >Is there an answer?


    You answered the question in your own question.

    >I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    >figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.


    He's 50. If he had wanted to live any other lifestyle, he would have long ago.
    Instead, he has chosen to be a parasite preying on others.

    Note: This is how he has *chosen* to live. You didn't choose that for him.

    Helping someone who is making an earnest *effort* to make a better life for
    themselves, i.e. helping them until they can get a job, etc., because you know
    they've been working hard to make their life better is one thing. But from what
    you posted, that's not what's happening. You are under no obligation to support
    him simply because he asks or expects you to. You are not responsible for his
    lifestyle choices, and not responsible for his life. And in fact, by doing all
    that, you might be encouraging him to do more of the same thing he's always
    done.

    Everyone has to grow up sometime. At 50, he ought to be able to at least try to
    live his *own* life without having others furnish everything for him. You
    shouldn't feel guilty about saying "No" if that's what you want to do. He made
    his choice - now you make yours.

    --
    Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
    that you haven't fallen asleep yet.
     
    Mara, May 8, 2006
    #5
  6. Dr. Memory

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Mon, 08 May 2006 03:54:26 -0700, æˆÂ功之路 wrote:

    > 真诚的欢迎朋å‹们光临自由天空.首先请注册æˆÂÂ为我们的会员.论å›地å€http://tongsaojun.lun123.com
    > 注册åÂŽ还å¯以在线上ä¼Â
    > 网页,FTP下载,æˆÂÂ功学学ä¹


    Yes

    --

    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
     
    Meat Plow, May 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Dr. Memory

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-05-08, Dr Memory <> wrote:
    > I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    > some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    > spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >
    > I know this guy who is homeless.
    > He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    > I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    > He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me to
    > GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    > cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    > I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    > figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    > I don't have the means to give him anything.
    > I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    > Should I do more?
    >
    > Is there an answer?


    If he's physically and mentally capable, point him at the adverts for
    'situations vacant'. If he seems genuinely not to be able to support
    himself, then try to find a state or charitable institution that can offer
    him whatever care and support he needs. That is a lot easier said than
    done, I know. I don't know the details of whatever welfare system there
    may be wherever you are, so I can't give specific advice.

    If he won't accept one or the other, then he's on his own, it seems.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, May 8, 2006
    #7
  8. Dr. Memory

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:,
    Mara spewed forth:
    > On Mon, 08 May 2006 06:33:14 -0400, Dr. Memory
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    >> some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    >> spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >>
    >> I know this guy who is homeless.
    >> He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    >> I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    >> He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me
    >> to GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    >> cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    >> I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    >> figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    >> I don't have the means to give him anything.
    >> I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    >> Should I do more?
    >>
    >> Is there an answer?

    >
    > You answered the question in your own question.
    >
    >> I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    >> figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.

    >
    > He's 50. If he had wanted to live any other lifestyle, he would have
    > long ago. Instead, he has chosen to be a parasite preying on others.
    >
    > Note: This is how he has *chosen* to live. You didn't choose that for
    > him.
    >
    > Helping someone who is making an earnest *effort* to make a better
    > life for themselves, i.e. helping them until they can get a job,
    > etc., because you know they've been working hard to make their life
    > better is one thing. But from what you posted, that's not what's
    > happening. You are under no obligation to support him simply because
    > he asks or expects you to. You are not responsible for his lifestyle
    > choices, and not responsible for his life. And in fact, by doing all
    > that, you might be encouraging him to do more of the same thing he's
    > always done.
    >
    > Everyone has to grow up sometime. At 50, he ought to be able to at
    > least try to live his *own* life without having others furnish
    > everything for him. You shouldn't feel guilty about saying "No" if
    > that's what you want to do. He made his choice - now you make yours.


    Nicely said. There are times when someone may be going down a rough road.
    But if they have chosen to /stay/ there, then nothing anyone does will
    change it. Helping them usually makes the problem worse - for both parties.

    --
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
     
    Toolman Tim, May 8, 2006
    #8
  9. Dr. Memory

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:,
    Whiskers spewed forth:
    > On 2006-05-08, Dr Memory <> wrote:
    >> I think I already know the answer to this, but I figured I'd go for
    >> some random opinions from y'all since your answers are usually
    >> spot-on. (Probably an answer from The K-Man would be the best! ;-))
    >>
    >> I know this guy who is homeless.
    >> He's been thus even since he dropped out of 10th grade.
    >> I've known him since we were in elementary school together.
    >> He's come around now asking me to help him, which means he wants me
    >> to GIVE him a place to live, a car, a job, money to live on, a
    >> cell-phone, a PC, a CD player, food, etc., etc.
    >> I feel sorry for him, but he's 50 years old now and *should* have
    >> figured out by now that TNSTAAFL.
    >> I don't have the means to give him anything.
    >> I will give him a ride out of town today though.
    >> Should I do more?
    >>
    >> Is there an answer?

    >
    > If he's physically and mentally capable, point him at the adverts for
    > 'situations vacant'. If he seems genuinely not to be able to support
    > himself, then try to find a state or charitable institution that can
    > offer him whatever care and support he needs. That is a lot easier
    > said than done, I know. I don't know the details of whatever welfare
    > system there may be wherever you are, so I can't give specific advice.
    >
    > If he won't accept one or the other, then he's on his own, it seems.


    I have an aquaintance who has an I.Q. of 70. Seriously - I've seen the
    paperwork. And he's emotionally challenged as well. For many years he lived
    on social security. At some point in his life, mid 40s I think, he decided
    he wanted to do more with his life than just get by on the pittance
    provided. He went out and found a job, a wife, a home, etc. There are people
    and places to help the less fortunate - but the choice is still theirs (for
    the most part - obviously there are many who can't even make that choice). I
    give to charity - not much, 'cause I don't have much - but the charities I
    give to are the ones who help the truly helpless, not the ones who help the
    "please feed me because I don't feel like getting a job." Unfortunately, my
    taxes do that on my behalf.
     
    Toolman Tim, May 8, 2006
    #9
  10. Dr. Memory

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 8 May 2006 12:00:12 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
    wrote:

    >In news:,
    >Mara spewed forth:


    <snip>
    >> He's 50. If he had wanted to live any other lifestyle, he would have
    >> long ago. Instead, he has chosen to be a parasite preying on others.
    >>
    >> Note: This is how he has *chosen* to live. You didn't choose that for
    >> him.
    >>
    >> Helping someone who is making an earnest *effort* to make a better
    >> life for themselves, i.e. helping them until they can get a job,
    >> etc., because you know they've been working hard to make their life
    >> better is one thing. But from what you posted, that's not what's
    >> happening. You are under no obligation to support him simply because
    >> he asks or expects you to. You are not responsible for his lifestyle
    >> choices, and not responsible for his life. And in fact, by doing all
    >> that, you might be encouraging him to do more of the same thing he's
    >> always done.
    >>
    >> Everyone has to grow up sometime. At 50, he ought to be able to at
    >> least try to live his *own* life without having others furnish
    >> everything for him. You shouldn't feel guilty about saying "No" if
    >> that's what you want to do. He made his choice - now you make yours.

    >
    >Nicely said. There are times when someone may be going down a rough road.
    >But if they have chosen to /stay/ there, then nothing anyone does will
    >change it. Helping them usually makes the problem worse - for both parties.


    I have good reason to feel this way - I have a brother who is exactly like this.
    At 48 years old, he claims to be "semi-retired" and has lived with my parents
    for the last 12 years. He doesn't have a job and won't look for one, I suspect
    because it's pretty well known in these parts that he's a drunk. Plus, minimum
    wage is "beneath him." Those are his words, not mine.

    So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my parents. I can't
    remember all the times my father has had to go over to the next town and bail
    his ass out of jail and get Dad's pickup out of the impound lot at $120 a shot
    because he got drunk and got a DUI or got into a fight or any number of other
    assorted stupidities.

    But he's not the only one at fault there. In fact, the last time Dad went to
    court with him, the judge told him flat out to stop enabling him. But did he
    listen? Hell no - because my mother wouldn't have it.

    I stayed there for two weeks while I was in the process of moving here. That was
    WAY more than enough for me. Yet, my brother though *I* was crazy for moving out
    and away.

    Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

    "Oh, man, don't get me started on *that* situation, because I have a LOT to say
    about it."

    --
    Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
    that you haven't fallen asleep yet.
     
    Mara, May 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Dr. Memory

    Mike Easter Guest

    Mara wrote:

    > So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    > parents.


    It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.

    > Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.


    You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for everyone,
    a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or rather prevented
    a long time ago -- ie never started.

    One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.

    As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them put
    together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none have the
    ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of them


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, May 9, 2006
    #11
  12. Dr. Memory

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:445fcf77$0$76118$,
    Mike Easter spewed forth:
    > Mara wrote:
    >
    >> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >> parents.

    >
    > It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
    >
    >> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

    >
    > You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
    > everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
    > rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
    >
    > One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
    >
    > As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
    > put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
    > have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
    > them


    I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
    didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
    at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
    hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

    --
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
     
    Toolman Tim, May 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Dr. Memory

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-08, Mara <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 8 May 2006 12:00:12 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>In news:,
    >>Mara spewed forth:

    >
    ><snip>
    >>> He's 50. If he had wanted to live any other lifestyle, he would have
    >>> long ago. Instead, he has chosen to be a parasite preying on others.
    >>>
    >>> Note: This is how he has *chosen* to live. You didn't choose that for
    >>> him.
    >>>
    >>> Helping someone who is making an earnest *effort* to make a better
    >>> life for themselves, i.e. helping them until they can get a job,
    >>> etc., because you know they've been working hard to make their life
    >>> better is one thing. But from what you posted, that's not what's
    >>> happening. You are under no obligation to support him simply because
    >>> he asks or expects you to. You are not responsible for his lifestyle
    >>> choices, and not responsible for his life. And in fact, by doing all
    >>> that, you might be encouraging him to do more of the same thing he's
    >>> always done.
    >>>
    >>> Everyone has to grow up sometime. At 50, he ought to be able to at
    >>> least try to live his *own* life without having others furnish
    >>> everything for him. You shouldn't feel guilty about saying "No" if
    >>> that's what you want to do. He made his choice - now you make yours.

    >>
    >>Nicely said. There are times when someone may be going down a rough road.
    >>But if they have chosen to /stay/ there, then nothing anyone does will
    >>change it. Helping them usually makes the problem worse - for both parties.

    >
    > I have good reason to feel this way - I have a brother who is exactly like this.
    > At 48 years old, he claims to be "semi-retired" and has lived with my parents
    > for the last 12 years. He doesn't have a job and won't look for one, I suspect
    > because it's pretty well known in these parts that he's a drunk. Plus, minimum
    > wage is "beneath him." Those are his words, not mine.


    Alcoholism is a tough row to hoe... but not for the alcoholic. Modern drugs
    will "clean 'em up" in 3-5 days with no terrible withdrawal ("Valium
    Holiday"). What they do after that is up to them...probably relapse.

    > So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my parents. I can't
    > remember all the times my father has had to go over to the next town and bail
    > his ass out of jail and get Dad's pickup out of the impound lot at $120 a shot
    > because he got drunk and got a DUI or got into a fight or any number of other
    > assorted stupidities.


    They're "enablers" but how does the daughter tell the father? (rhetorical)

    >
    > But he's not the only one at fault there. In fact, the last time Dad went to
    > court with him, the judge told him flat out to stop enabling him. But did he
    > listen? Hell no - because my mother wouldn't have it.


    Moms are the worst enablers...how does the daughter tell the mother?
    (rhetorical)

    > I stayed there for two weeks while I was in the process of moving here. That was
    > WAY more than enough for me. Yet, my brother though *I* was crazy for moving out
    > and away.
    >
    > Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
    >
    > "Oh, man, don't get me started on *that* situation, because I have a LOT to say
    > about it."


    Slightly different problem in the "extended" family but lucky for us- My
    wife and I get invited first so that another (sorta like a brother(-in-law))
    won't think there's a place for them "there". It's just a way of not going
    through all the argument/discussion that drunks want to have but nobody
    cares about. "Sorry, full up, here's a list of motels" (you sorry, drunken,
    asshole.)

    The sad thing is that they don't realize that others do care for them. The
    only thing they want is for their enablers to keep enabling. It's a
    sub-human existence...they're trolls (a rather strict analogy).

    --
    Which reminds me...I have to hide my "Damn Russian Vodka" or I won't get
    invited that way anymore :)
    Of course, I might be in jail anyway since BS claims I shutdown the
    Internet backbone. (only Morely knows for sure :)
     
    Jimchip, May 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Dr. Memory

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 8 May 2006 16:33:26 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
    wrote:

    >In news:445fcf77$0$76118$,
    >Mike Easter spewed forth:
    >> Mara wrote:
    >>
    >>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >>> parents.

    >>
    >> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
    >>
    >>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

    >>
    >> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
    >> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
    >> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
    >>
    >> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
    >>
    >> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
    >> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
    >> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
    >> them


    It isn't tragic. It's what they chose. They are the same people who *chose* to
    try to sell me my Grandmother's house a little less than three years ago for
    $40,000, too - when both the assessed value and the fair market value was
    $12,000. It was quite deliberate. So were lies they told my lawyer - lies easily
    disproved.

    I suppose I should thank them, in a way, though. It was that incident that made
    me wake up and realize that my life would be a *lot* better off without them.
    And it has. Because of that, I have my own home that's about 50 times the house
    my Grandmother's was - and I have peace at home. As for Grandmother, she is in
    my heart wherever I live - her picture is the first thing I see when I walk in
    the front door - and were she alive to have witnessed all the things they have
    done just since I moved back to this town, she would be appalled.

    When I found out what was going on, I insisted from that point that anything
    they wished to discuss about the house must be in writing, because I wanted a
    paper trail in case they tried something again. In my last reply to them, when I
    told them that I had bought a different house, I told them that they were
    perfectly welcome to come over and visit me at any time - as long as they
    treated me with respect. I gave them a choice, and stated my boundaries, as is
    right and proper for any self-respecting human being.

    They have never been to this house to visit in the almost three years I have
    been here, or called. *That* was *their* choice, my mother's actually, and I'm
    satisfied with it, because it saves me what would only be more trouble.

    My father *has* come and snooped around the outside of my house and looked in
    the windows when I *wasn't* home, though. He chain-smokes a particular brand of
    cigarettes, and I've found the butts all around the house, up next to it.

    I find that, too, disgusting.

    >I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
    >didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
    >at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
    >hope - but someone has often got to force a change.


    Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
    boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
    sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.

    "So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."

    --
    Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
    that you haven't fallen asleep yet.
     
    Mara, May 9, 2006
    #14
  15. Dr. Memory

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-08, Mike Easter <> wrote:
    > Mara wrote:
    >
    >> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >> parents.

    >
    > It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.


    He will probably die ~20 years before he "should"...It's a human tragedy.

    >
    >> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

    >
    > You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for everyone,
    > a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or rather prevented
    > a long time ago -- ie never started.


    The only demonstrated technique is "intervention" and, unfortunately, if the
    enablers control the turf, it can never occur. It doesn't help if you catch
    the person alone (they just run home to Mommy). One has to intervene on the
    enablers *first*, and then, once they're on board, you go for the "one".

    >
    > One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.


    Yup. And finally understand (heartbroken) what they allowed to happen.
    or maybe not...enablers deserve their own niche independent of the
    "one"--they are pretty Fsckd-up, too.

    > As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them put
    > together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none have the
    > ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of them


    It's a question, for me, of the stupid little "serenity" prayer...It has to
    do with whether I can make a difference or not...end of story. If the
    answer is "not"...I walk away and just flip 'em shit when ever *I* feel like
    it.

    --
    "Troll" is a strict analogy, IMO.
     
    Jimchip, May 9, 2006
    #15
  16. Dr. Memory

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-08, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
    > In news:445fcf77$0$76118$,
    > Mike Easter spewed forth:
    >> Mara wrote:
    >>
    >>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >>> parents.

    >>
    >> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
    >>
    >>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.

    >>
    >> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
    >> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
    >> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
    >>
    >> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
    >>
    >> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
    >> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
    >> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
    >> them

    >
    > I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
    > didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
    > at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
    > hope - but someone has often got to force a change.


    Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his own"
    though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!

    --
    One thing "they" need to know is that no one is nearly as condemning as they
    think others are about themselves...Shit, it's a type of psychosis.
     
    Jimchip, May 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Dr. Memory

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In news:,
    Jimchip spewed forth:
    > On 2006-05-08, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
    >> In news:445fcf77$0$76118$,
    >> Mike Easter spewed forth:
    >>> Mara wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >>>> parents.
    >>>
    >>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
    >>>
    >>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
    >>>
    >>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
    >>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
    >>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
    >>>
    >>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
    >>>
    >>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
    >>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
    >>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
    >>> them

    >>
    >> I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better -
    >> except he didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did
    >> straighten up and at the age of 45 finished college and has a full
    >> time job. So there is
    >> hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

    >
    > Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his
    > own" though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!


    Yup - the help came from parents who finally said "Enough!" and pushed him
    out in his mid thirties. Followed by a marriage to someone who expects him
    to do the right thing. So once he got the right direction he took off on his
    own. But that initial push is a real hard thing to get most people to do.

    --
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
     
    Toolman Tim, May 9, 2006
    #17
  18. Dr. Memory

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-09, Toolman Tim <> wrote:
    > In news:,
    > Jimchip spewed forth:


    [snip]

    >> Yes, there is hope. And your brother did a lot of what he did "on his
    >> own" though I'm sure he had help. But good for him!

    >
    > Yup - the help came from parents who finally said "Enough!" and pushed him
    > out in his mid thirties. Followed by a marriage to someone who expects him
    > to do the right thing. So once he got the right direction he took off on his
    > own.


    >But that initial push is a real hard thing to get most people to do.
    >--
    >Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.


    "Compression, relaxation"...count..."Compression, relaxation"... :)

    --
    Mandatory CPR training :)
     
    Jimchip, May 9, 2006
    #18
  19. Dr. Memory

    Jimchip Guest

    On 2006-05-09, Mara <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 8 May 2006 16:33:26 -0700, "Toolman Tim" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>In news:445fcf77$0$76118$,
    >>Mike Easter spewed forth:
    >>> Mara wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> So there he sits, on his ass, sponging everything he can off my
    >>>> parents.
    >>>
    >>> It is highly likely he is not at all a happy person. Or healthy.
    >>>
    >>>> Frankly, he disgusts me. And so do they.
    >>>
    >>> You are correct about their enabling. It is very very bad for
    >>> everyone, a lose lose situation. Too bad it didn't get fixed or
    >>> rather prevented a long time ago -- ie never started.
    >>>
    >>> One or both of your parents will likely outlive him.
    >>>
    >>> As disgusted as you may be, you are surely happier than all of them
    >>> put together. They are all 'trapped' in a quagmire from which none
    >>> have the ability or 'self resources' to escape. Tragic for all of
    >>> them

    >
    > It isn't tragic. It's what they chose. They are the same people who *chose* to
    > try to sell me my Grandmother's house a little less than three years ago for
    > $40,000, too - when both the assessed value and the fair market value was
    > $12,000. It was quite deliberate. So were lies they told my lawyer - lies easily
    > disproved.


    I disagree...It is tragic, in spite of their choices.
    http://www.answers.com/topic/tragic?method=22
    tragic (adj)
    Definition: catastrophic, very bad
    Antonyms: advantageous, blessed, good, happy, successful

    The adjective tragic has 2 meanings:
    Meaning #1: very sad; especially involving grief or death or destruction
    Synonym: tragical
    (I nvr nu^^^^^^^ :)
    >
    > I suppose I should thank them, in a way, though. It was that incident that made
    > me wake up and realize that my life would be a *lot* better off without them.
    > And it has. Because of that, I have my own home that's about 50 times the house
    > my Grandmother's was - and I have peace at home. As for Grandmother, she is in
    > my heart wherever I live - her picture is the first thing I see when I walk in
    > the front door - and were she alive to have witnessed all the things they have
    > done just since I moved back to this town, she would be appalled.
    >
    > When I found out what was going on, I insisted from that point that anything
    > they wished to discuss about the house must be in writing, because I wanted a
    > paper trail in case they tried something again. In my last reply to them, when I
    > told them that I had bought a different house, I told them that they were
    > perfectly welcome to come over and visit me at any time - as long as they
    > treated me with respect. I gave them a choice, and stated my boundaries, as is
    > right and proper for any self-respecting human being.


    Hmmm...sounds like one of my siblings (blood-relative) not the "in-law".

    > They have never been to this house to visit in the almost three years I have
    > been here, or called. *That* was *their* choice, my mother's actually, and I'm
    > satisfied with it, because it saves me what would only be more trouble.
    >
    > My father *has* come and snooped around the outside of my house and looked in
    > the windows when I *wasn't* home, though. He chain-smokes a particular brand of
    > cigarettes, and I've found the butts all around the house, up next to it.
    >
    > I find that, too, disgusting.
    >
    >>I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
    >>didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
    >>at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
    >>hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

    >
    > Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
    > boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
    > sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.
    >
    > "So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."


    You shouldn't. If they ever wake-up, they will regret their behavior. In
    situations like that there is little joy in "I told you so".

    --
    It's a tragedy...admit it.
    There's just nothing you can do about it.
     
    Jimchip, May 9, 2006
    #19
  20. Dr. Memory

    Mara Guest

    On Tue, 09 May 2006 01:26:37 -0000, Jimchip
    <> wrote:

    <snip>
    >I disagree...It is tragic, in spite of their choices.
    >http://www.answers.com/topic/tragic?method=22
    >tragic (adj)
    >Definition: catastrophic, very bad
    >Antonyms: advantageous, blessed, good, happy, successful


    Then we'll have to agree to disagree. They're quite happy the way they are. As
    is usual in these cases, the fault *always* lies with Someone Else(tm).

    My mother used to do nothing but complain to me about having to put up with my
    brother. He treats my father like dirt. It is *well* within their power to tell
    him to either get a job or get the hell out, or both - yet, they do nothing but
    complain. Even when *all* the rest of us kids tell them they need to do it.

    Why? Because it gives my mother someone right there in the house that she can
    control.

    That says a lot.

    I had to pay $200/month for my grandmother's house. When I moved in, these were
    house payments; I was buying the place. When the inside and the yard were done
    and the place actually looked like a nice place to live, I was suddenly "paying
    rent."

    My other brother lives there now. Rent free. Dad even pays some of *his* bills.
    As long as they can control his every thought, word, and deed, of course.

    No, thanks.

    <snip>
    >>>I couldn't agree more. My younger brother wasn't much better - except he
    >>>didn't have a drinking problem. But a few years ago he did straighten up and
    >>>at the age of 45 finished college and has a full time job. So there is
    >>>hope - but someone has often got to force a change.

    >>
    >> Sometimes the best thing you can do is free yourself from it. If you set clear
    >> boundaries and people not only don't respect them but escalate their abuse,
    >> sometimes it's the *only* thing you can do.
    >>
    >> "So, that's what I did. And I haven't regretted it."

    >
    >You shouldn't. If they ever wake-up, they will regret their behavior. In
    >situations like that there is little joy in "I told you so".


    They won't. I guarantee it. To them, it is my *fault* that I choose to live my
    own life. After all these years, they *still* resort to childish, petty, stupid
    games to attempt to "punish" me - at my favorite uncle's funeral's funeral, they
    would not sit with the family because I did.

    "Now that *is* sad. It's also sick - and I want no part of it."

    --
    Stress is when you wake up screaming, and then realize
    that you haven't fallen asleep yet.
     
    Mara, May 9, 2006
    #20
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