No restore points, redux.

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by XS11E, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Earlier messages posted around July 6th....

    Again I had to restore Vista Ultimate 64bit from an Acronis image and
    again, the restored image had NO restore points.

    Additional information, MS Update then proceeded to install around 16
    updates, both to Office and to Vista and I recognized that some of them
    I'd installed previously so not only did I lose my restore points but I
    also either lost the updates or whatever pointer it is that tells MS
    Update that an update is installed.

    The image I restored was made just about two hours before the restore
    because I planned to mess with some software, it didn't work nor did it
    uninstall so the restore was the easiest way to go.

    Prior to creating the image I checked to be sure there were restore
    points and there were the usual bunch, all gone now. I also recall one
    MS Update relating to my video card which was installed just hours
    before creating the image.

    This is of come concern, I'm using Acronis 10 and creating images from
    within Vista. I just deleted existing images and created a new one by
    booting into the Acronis CD and creating the image from there, I don't
    know if that will make any difference?

    Also, my HD is partitioned and I only restore the C: partition but
    should that make any difference to System restore or to MS Update?

    Any ideas?



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    XS11E, Aug 13, 2008
    #1
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  2. If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
    points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
    approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
    sort it out. A situation of this type would by all means
    not be a Microsoft problem, it would be Acronis' problem and
    they should be the ones to resolve the problem. You're
    talking about the possibility of a "bug" in Acronis and you
    won't find the solution here if this is true.


    XS11E wrote:
    > Earlier messages posted around July 6th....
    >
    > Again I had to restore Vista Ultimate 64bit from an Acronis image and
    > again, the restored image had NO restore points.
    >
    > Additional information, MS Update then proceeded to install around 16
    > updates, both to Office and to Vista and I recognized that some of them
    > I'd installed previously so not only did I lose my restore points but I
    > also either lost the updates or whatever pointer it is that tells MS
    > Update that an update is installed.
    >
    > The image I restored was made just about two hours before the restore
    > because I planned to mess with some software, it didn't work nor did it
    > uninstall so the restore was the easiest way to go.
    >
    > Prior to creating the image I checked to be sure there were restore
    > points and there were the usual bunch, all gone now. I also recall one
    > MS Update relating to my video card which was installed just hours
    > before creating the image.
    >
    > This is of come concern, I'm using Acronis 10 and creating images from
    > within Vista. I just deleted existing images and created a new one by
    > booting into the Acronis CD and creating the image from there, I don't
    > know if that will make any difference?
    >
    > Also, my HD is partitioned and I only restore the C: partition but
    > should that make any difference to System restore or to MS Update?
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 13, 2008
    #2
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  3. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
    > points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
    > approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
    > sort it out.


    So far no solution from them.


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    XS11E, Aug 13, 2008
    #3
  4. And you think Microsoft or someone in this forum is going to
    fix it?

    Maybe you can get Alice in Wonderland to help with the problem?


    XS11E wrote:
    > Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    >> If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
    >> points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
    >> approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
    >> sort it out.

    >
    > So far no solution from them.
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 14, 2008
    #4
  5. XS11E

    Carlos Guest

    XS11E,
    You are using an "old" version of Acronis, current one is v11.
    Some research in the changelog might help.
    Carlos

    "XS11E" wrote:

    > Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    > > If you're convinced that Acronis is wiping out your restore
    > > points and turning it off in Vista, then the logical
    > > approach is to get with Acronis Tech Support and let them
    > > sort it out.

    >
    > So far no solution from them.
    >
    >
    > --
    > XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    > The Usenet Improvement Project:
    > http://improve-usenet.org
    >
    Carlos, Aug 14, 2008
    #5
  6. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > And you think Microsoft or someone in this forum is going to
    > fix it?


    Again you demonstrate your inability to comprehend the problem.

    If you can't understand, don't reply.

    > Maybe you can get Alice in Wonderland to help with the problem?


    I think you should limit yourself to only one stupid pill per day...

    Again, if your reading comprehension doesn't allow you to understand
    the problem or WHY I *correctly* posted it here, then STFU, OK?



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    XS11E, Aug 14, 2008
    #6
  7. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Carlos <> wrote:

    > XS11E,
    > You are using an "old" version of Acronis, current one is v11.
    > Some research in the changelog might help.


    Thanks, nothing there that give any clues.

    The question is has anyone else noticed this?




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    XS11E, Aug 14, 2008
    #7
  8. I've been using Acronis 10 before and now Acronis 11 and in
    the 3 years I've been using them I have never encountered
    any problem with Restore Points. I have used Acronis on
    Windows XP Pro 32-bit, Windows XP Pro x64, and Windows Vista
    x64 and have never encountered any problems like this.

    The only problem I have encountered with Acronis is getting
    it to do a backup directly to a dual layer DVD, but research
    indicates it is probably the particular drive I am using.


    XS11E wrote:
    > The question is has anyone else noticed this?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 14, 2008
    #8
  9. I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
    x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
    went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
    set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
    are still listed.

    I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
    x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.

    Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
    it delete my previous restore points.


    XS11E wrote:
    > The question is has anyone else noticed this?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 14, 2008
    #9
  10. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
    > x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
    > went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
    > set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
    > are still listed.
    >
    > I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
    > x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.
    >
    > Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
    > it delete my previous restore points.


    FYI: It's normal, I finally dug the info out, applies to Version 10 and
    11 of Acronis:

    "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
    System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
    A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
    delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
    image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.

    You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
    to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."

    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=199565

    It's a long thread, it applies to Acronis 10 and 11, different people
    have different results.

    I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?






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    XS11E, Aug 15, 2008
    #10
  11. XS11E

    Graham Guest

    XS11E wrote:
    > "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
    > System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
    > A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
    > delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
    > image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
    >
    > You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
    > to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
    >
    > I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?


    This sounds similar to (but different from) the reason that Raxco
    Perfect disk can't properly defrag an NTFS disk under Vista unless
    cluster sizes of at least 16K are used for the volume. It has a "VSS
    compatible" defrag mode, which basically tells it to limit
    defragmentation in order to avoid creating excessive file "changes"
    which fill up the VSS area and wipe out system restore points.

    I'd say this is a design problem with Vista for two reasons. First, the
    file changes which are stored regardless of the Vista version are only
    accessible and restorable if you have Vista Business or Ultimate and
    otherwise just waste disk space. Second, if it works with cluster sizes
    greater than 16K, it should have been possible to make it work with
    smaller, and more common, cluster sizes too (but I don't know the
    technical details of why that was not done).

    I think Microsoft need to do some re-thinking of VSS. Sounds like a
    potentially good idea poorly implemented. (It does have a potential
    privacy issue too, in that deleted files are even less physically
    deleted than they were with earlier versions of Windows.)
    Graham, Aug 15, 2008
    #11
  12. Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
    "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
    going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
    Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."

    And a reply from Acronis Support:
    "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software

    Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
    already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
    details to them."

    So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

    When I have time I will do a restore from the backup I did
    yesterday and see what the status of the Restore Points is.
    They're still working in the system I did the image of.


    XS11E wrote:
    > Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    >> I have just completed a complete system image of my Vista
    >> x64 system to DVD using Acronis True Image Home 11. I just
    >> went in the settings for System Restore, the system is still
    >> set to do restore points, and all my previous restore points
    >> are still listed.
    >>
    >> I have done a complete Acronis 11 System Backup and my Vista
    >> x64 System Restore was not affected in any way.
    >>
    >> Acronis 11 did not change my system restore settings nor did
    >> it delete my previous restore points.

    >
    > FYI: It's normal, I finally dug the info out, applies to Version 10 and
    > 11 of Acronis:
    >
    > "....While this may fix the association between the volume ID and the
    > System Restore settings, the restore points are still going to be lost.
    > A restored sector map created by VSS will be incorrect, and Vista will
    > delete it. What this means is that all of your restore points in the TI
    > image will be irretrievably lost upon image restoration.
    >
    > You're better off deleting all restore points before imaging in order
    > to reduce the image size because they're not going to survive anyway."
    >
    > http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=199565
    >
    > It's a long thread, it applies to Acronis 10 and 11, different people
    > have different results.
    >
    > I believe it's a Vista problem, Acronis may not be able to fix it?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 15, 2008
    #12
  13. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
    > "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
    > going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
    > Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
    >
    > And a reply from Acronis Support:
    > "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
    >
    > Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
    > already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
    > details to them."
    >
    > So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.


    It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".


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    XS11E, Aug 15, 2008
    #13
  14. If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?
    As I stated before my restore points are neither deleted nor
    turned off when I use Acronis 10 or 11 on Windows XP Pro
    (32-bit), Win XP x64, and Vista x64. If this were a Windows
    problem, then I would fully expect it to happen on at least
    one of my system.


    XS11E wrote:
    > Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    >> Apparently most people think it's Acronis' problem:
    >> "I think Acronis need to sort this out, pronto, as this is
    >> going to upset a lot of people that sometimes rely on
    >> Windows system restore to get them out of trouble."
    >>
    >> And a reply from Acronis Support:
    >> "Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup software
    >>
    >> Thank you for provided information. Our Development Team is
    >> already working on this issue. I've forwarded these useful
    >> details to them."
    >>
    >> So, apparently not a Windows Vista problem.

    >
    > It appears to be so, see reply from "Graham".
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 17, 2008
    #14
  15. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?


    You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
    Acronis.


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    XS11E, Aug 18, 2008
    #15
  16. I did and here's one of the best extracts:

    "Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
    companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
    bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
    chief."


    XS11E wrote:
    > Bobby Johnson <> wrote:
    >
    >> If it's Windows fault, then why doesn't affect my systems?

    >
    > You need to read the entire thread on the Wilder's Security Forum for
    > Acronis.
    >
    >
    Bobby Johnson, Aug 18, 2008
    #16
  17. XS11E

    XS11E Guest

    Bobby Johnson <> wrote:

    > I did and here's one of the best extracts:
    >
    > "Take it easy chief. Relax. Acronis is one of the best
    > companies I dealt with and TrueImage the best program I ever
    > bought. No program is perfect, so chill dude, take it easy
    > chief."


    Irrelevent, the problem still exists for most and it needs fixing by
    MSFT or a work around from Acronis.



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    XS11E, Aug 18, 2008
    #17
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