No more tape?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 9, 2006.

  1. I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    support for tape as a backup medium.

    I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under the
    impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular any more, otherwise
    Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.

    Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    they last very long?

    ObLinuxBoosterSnipe: another interesting new feature in Longhorn Server is
    the "Server Core" mode, where the installation runs without any local GUI
    at all; just a bare command prompt to do initial configuration, with all
    the rest being controlled remotely. Strike 1: that means you still need a
    Windows GUI of some sort to manage the system, albeit on another machine.
    And Strike 2: somebody neglected to tell the IIS folks about this feature,
    so you can't install this on a machine running in Server Core mode.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 9, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Phil Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote, On 9/09/06 10.25 p:
    > I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    > of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    > support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    > I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under the
    > impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    > high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular any more, otherwise
    > Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.
    >
    > Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    > they last very long?


    Dropping support entirely? Now that is quite surprising...

    It's true that the cost of HDDs is making all sorts of new backup
    solutions quite attractive, but AFAIK tape is still predominant in
    enterprise.

    Although, I doubt many people who would backup to tape would be using
    Microsoft Backup anyway (it sucks! ;) )

    -Phil
    Phil, Sep 9, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:39 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    >of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    >support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    >I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under the
    >impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    >high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular any more, otherwise
    >Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.
    >
    >Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    >they last very long?


    We used to use tapes for backup but one day I realised the backups weren't
    working. The Backup Exec software we used wasn't reporting any errors and I
    had to do a restore every day to make sure the backup had worked. After
    stuffing around for a long time trying to get it working reliably I gave up
    and went to removable hard drives. It's simple, fast, reliable and easy to
    upgrade. Drives last indefinitely and if they get too small for backups they
    will be used to upgrade a PC.

    A script runs chkdsk before starting and emails me a report of the backup
    when it's finished. If a backup fails for any reason I know straight away.
    Recovering a file only takes a few minutes. The system is so simple anyone
    can look after it.

    Once when the fileserver died we used the backup machine as a temporary
    fileserver. It was a bit slow but it worked.

    I wouldn't go back to tape now.

    --
    Ray Greene
    Ray Greene, Sep 9, 2006
    #3
  4. In article <edu4pc$s7n$>, _zealand
    says...
    >
    > Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    > they last very long?
    >


    Had a tape drive once. The tapes were hideously expensive (around 100 bucks),
    the process was painfully slow (several hours for my hdd) and the tape drive
    died within a year.
    The data retention was not good - so consider that for a mini-tape that takes
    3-5 hours to back up the machine or restore, can only be accessed
    sequentially... then you got to do error checking and maybe several files are
    bad ... man was I pissed off. Mind you, that was in the days before cd writers
    were commonly available. I have never been tempted to get another, if you know
    what I mean. IIRC I replaced it with a 135 Mb syquest drive which turned out to
    be obsolete by the time it got delivered (in favour of the 250 Mb or
    thereabouts). At least it worked a lot better. Died too, though.

    -Peter

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Sep 9, 2006
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    peterwn Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    > of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    > support for tape as a backup medium.
    >


    Presumably they think that tape belongs to the 'dark ages' of UNIX etc
    and has no place for a go-ahead product like Vista. Or alternatively
    they are conceding that those who want to get serious work done will be
    using Linux and similar servers.

    Reminds me of a party political billboard from years ago "Why vote
    National or Labour - be modern vote Social Credit". Some Vista
    publicity seems to be no better like NZ's Microsoft chief implying that
    those using UNIX (presumably including Linux migrations) were living in
    the dark ages. Weta workshops for one would not seem to share this
    view.

    It seems very lop-sided when some companies seem to have to have some
    'token' Windows servers effectively to keep Microsoft salespeople off
    their backs, while having a 'secret room' of Linux servers that the
    Microsoft rep does not know about.
    peterwn, Sep 9, 2006
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    > of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    > support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    > I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under the
    > impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    > high-volume backups.


    Depends, but yes. Tape / LTO technology is good but as you grow in
    volume tape units start to become slow and in-effectual. eg we back up
    something like 14 Terabyte on a full backup night....this needs a 6 tape
    unit LT03 to cope, Dell ML6030 (circa $120k)....

    So you get to tier management, eg once a file is over 60 days old it is
    rarely accessed and changed. So rather than use LTO's copy these files
    to a SATA based replication system leaving pointers on the servers to
    these, cheaper and faster than LTO. Then you only backup what has
    changed....

    Obviously they're not that popular any more, otherwise
    > Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.


    YEep, it always has really. MS's support has always been pretty minimal,
    I found that under NT4, and win2k that to get any meaningful support I
    had to pay quite a bit for essential drivers for the tape units I
    actually gave up and went with samba, amanda and tar are after all free.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 9, 2006
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    XPD Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:edu4pc$s7n$...
    >I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    > of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    > support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    > I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under
    > the
    > impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    > high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular any more,
    > otherwise
    > Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.
    >
    > Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    > they last very long?


    Almost all my big clients have tape backup and still use it as their main
    backup along with a backup to a seperate HDD.
    None have had problems (except the odd tape failing but thats usually due to
    old age) so far and many have been running the tapes for quite a few years
    now.
    XPD, Sep 9, 2006
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    XPD Guest

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:45033970$...

    > Depends, but yes. Tape / LTO technology is good but as you grow in volume
    > tape units start to become slow and in-effectual. eg we back up something
    > like 14 Terabyte on a full backup night....this needs a 6 tape unit LT03
    > to cope, Dell ML6030 (circa $120k)....



    Yeah thats one catch with Tape, once youve exceeded your tapes size youre
    kinda stuck unless you purchase a newer drive with newer tapes etc...

    Altho, does help if your clients do a cleanup once in a while. One of mine
    exceeded their 40gb tape to about 60gb. I went through their system and
    found 30gb of redundant/trash data that wasnt needed.
    XPD, Sep 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    MarkH Guest

    "peterwn" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September
    >> issue of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops
    >> standard support for tape as a backup medium.
    >>

    >
    > Presumably they think that tape belongs to the 'dark ages' of UNIX etc
    > and has no place for a go-ahead product like Vista. Or alternatively
    > they are conceding that those who want to get serious work done will
    > be using Linux and similar servers.


    It is also possible that MS realise that anyone who uses a tape drive uses
    Veritas backup with Veritas drivers and have no need for support from MS
    for the tape drive at all. To be honest I am surprised that MS took so
    long to realise that the free backup software they provide has no
    desirability in the marketplace.

    There is a name for people that buy a tape drive without software and use
    MS backup for writing to it - idiots!


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 27-May-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
    MarkH, Sep 10, 2006
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    MarkH Guest

    Ray Greene <> wrote in news:edu9bs$rc1$:

    > On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:39 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    ><_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >>I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September
    >>issue of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops
    >>standard support for tape as a backup medium.
    >>
    >>I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was
    >>under the impression that they were the medium of choice for fast,
    >>cost-effective, high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that
    >>popular any more, otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third
    >>parties to fill the gap.
    >>
    >>Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they
    >>reliable? Do they last very long?

    >
    > We used to use tapes for backup but one day I realised the backups
    > weren't working. The Backup Exec software we used wasn't reporting any
    > errors and I had to do a restore every day to make sure the backup had
    > worked.


    User error? Surely the verify option would give an error if the data on
    the tape did not match the data on the HDD?

    My understanding is that a backup with verify involves:
    1. Sequentially write the data to the tape
    2. Rewind the tape
    3. Read the data from the tape and compare it to the data on the HDD.

    All errors would be logged and it should be obvious from the log whether
    the data wrote and verified successfully or not.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 27-May-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
    MarkH, Sep 10, 2006
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    MarkH Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote in
    news:edu4pc$s7n$:

    > I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September
    > issue of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops
    > standard support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    > I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was
    > under the impression that they were the medium of choice for fast,
    > cost-effective, high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that
    > popular any more, otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third
    > parties to fill the gap.
    >
    > Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they
    > reliable? Do they last very long?


    I have many customers using tape drives - the tapes are cheap and can
    easily be taken offsite for extra safety. The tapes are usually cycled and
    one tape would not be used more than 50 times a year, replacing the tapes
    every year or two would ensure that the failures would be rare. Generally
    if last nights tape failed then you at least have the tape from night
    before last.

    No customer that I have ever dealt with has used MS software for backing up
    to their tape drive. Most use Veritas Backup Exec with the Veritas
    drivers. Therefore the demand for MS to provide tape support would be
    virtually zero.

    There are other ways of backing up the data, but tapes have some
    advantages. An external HDD can backup a lot of data at a reasonable
    price, but you would need multiple external drives to be safe - you never
    want to overwrite the last good backup. DVD-RW disks only write about 4GB,
    if your data exceeds 4GB then writing to DVD is a pain.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 27-May-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
    MarkH, Sep 10, 2006
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    XPD wrote:
    > "thingy" <> wrote in message
    > news:45033970$...
    >
    >> Depends, but yes. Tape / LTO technology is good but as you grow in volume
    >> tape units start to become slow and in-effectual. eg we back up something
    >> like 14 Terabyte on a full backup night....this needs a 6 tape unit LT03
    >> to cope, Dell ML6030 (circa $120k)....

    >
    >
    > Yeah thats one catch with Tape, once youve exceeded your tapes size youre
    > kinda stuck unless you purchase a newer drive with newer tapes etc...
    >
    > Altho, does help if your clients do a cleanup once in a while. One of mine
    > exceeded their 40gb tape to about 60gb. I went through their system and
    > found 30gb of redundant/trash data that wasnt needed.
    >
    >


    Hence a ML6030, 200 tape silo with 6 x native fibre LTO3 tape
    drives.....no tape changing for me....

    Our users never clean up...and to be fair some people's research has
    20~30 year life/history, eg long term health monitoring....hence a
    Centera archive solution.....almost indestructible (in terms of loosing
    data) and legally verifiable....

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Sep 10, 2006
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Dave Taylor Guest

    MarkH <> wrote in news:dYIMg.200076$Df2.132450
    @fe05.news.easynews.com:

    > User error? Surely the verify option would give an error if the data on
    > the tape did not match the data on the HDD?
    >
    > My understanding is that a backup with verify involves:
    > 1. Sequentially write the data to the tape
    > 2. Rewind the tape
    > 3. Read the data from the tape and compare it to the data on the HDD.
    >
    > All errors would be logged and it should be obvious from the log whether
    > the data wrote and verified successfully or not.
    >


    No.
    What can happen is the data is written and checksummed, and verifies ok,
    but the data itself is corrupted by the backup app before it gets to tape.
    The data will verify fine, but when you restore a file it is filled with
    garbage.
    ALWAYS verify a random file by restoring and then OPEN IT!
    I have been caught by this bug, and it really sucks.



    --
    Ciao, Dave
    Dave Taylor, Sep 10, 2006
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:25:45 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:

    >Ray Greene <> wrote in news:edu9bs$rc1$:
    >
    >> On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:39 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    >><_zealand> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September
    >>>issue of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops
    >>>standard support for tape as a backup medium.
    >>>
    >>>I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was
    >>>under the impression that they were the medium of choice for fast,
    >>>cost-effective, high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that
    >>>popular any more, otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third
    >>>parties to fill the gap.
    >>>
    >>>Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they
    >>>reliable? Do they last very long?

    >>
    >> We used to use tapes for backup but one day I realised the backups
    >> weren't working. The Backup Exec software we used wasn't reporting any
    >> errors and I had to do a restore every day to make sure the backup had
    >> worked.

    >
    >User error? Surely the verify option would give an error if the data on
    >the tape did not match the data on the HDD?
    >
    >My understanding is that a backup with verify involves:
    >1. Sequentially write the data to the tape
    >2. Rewind the tape
    >3. Read the data from the tape and compare it to the data on the HDD.
    >
    >All errors would be logged and it should be obvious from the log whether
    >the data wrote and verified successfully or not.


    It should be obvious, but I never got it working reliably. I spent a lot of
    time looking for answers but in the end I never solved the problem. Restores
    would fail when no errors had been logged. It must have been software as we
    replaced the tape unit and the problem continued. I wiped the HDD and
    reinstalled everything, still wouldn't work reliably.

    The uncertainty got to me in the end, I simply couldn't trust it. With HDDs
    you know exactly where you are. Anyway we were getting close to outgrowing
    the capacity of the tapes and I couldn't find a reason to continue with them.

    --
    Ray Greene
    Ray Greene, Sep 10, 2006
    #14
  15. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Jack Hammond Guest

    On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:25:39 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September issue
    >of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops standard
    >support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    >I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under the
    >impression that they were the medium of choice for fast, cost-effective,
    >high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular any more, otherwise
    >Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to fill the gap.
    >
    >Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    >they last very long?
    >
    >ObLinuxBoosterSnipe: another interesting new feature in Longhorn Server is
    >the "Server Core" mode, where the installation runs without any local GUI
    >at all; just a bare command prompt to do initial configuration, with all
    >the rest being controlled remotely. Strike 1: that means you still need a
    >Windows GUI of some sort to manage the system, albeit on another machine.
    >And Strike 2: somebody neglected to tell the IIS folks about this feature,
    >so you can't install this on a machine running in Server Core mode.





    DVD RAM is now the preferred backup media..
    Jack Hammond, Sep 10, 2006
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > XPD wrote:
    >> "thingy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:45033970$...
    >>
    >>> Depends, but yes. Tape / LTO technology is good but as you grow in
    >>> volume tape units start to become slow and in-effectual. eg we back
    >>> up something like 14 Terabyte on a full backup night....this needs a
    >>> 6 tape unit LT03 to cope, Dell ML6030 (circa $120k)....

    >>
    >>
    >> Yeah thats one catch with Tape, once youve exceeded your tapes size
    >> youre kinda stuck unless you purchase a newer drive with newer tapes
    >> etc...
    >>
    >> Altho, does help if your clients do a cleanup once in a while. One of
    >> mine exceeded their 40gb tape to about 60gb. I went through their
    >> system and found 30gb of redundant/trash data that wasnt needed.
    >>

    >
    > Hence a ML6030, 200 tape silo with 6 x native fibre LTO3 tape
    > drives.....no tape changing for me....
    >
    > Our users never clean up...and to be fair some people's research has
    > 20~30 year life/history, eg long term health monitoring....hence a
    > Centera archive solution.....almost indestructible (in terms of loosing
    > data) and legally verifiable....
    >

    Centerra is a clumsy hack, but it works...

    How long does it take to back up 14 Terabytes to 6 tape units?

    I'm looking for a solution that does about that amount. On current
    speeds of getting the data off the disk, that'll take the best part of
    three days.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    Enkidu, Sep 10, 2006
    #16
  17. In message <J5JMg.942198$>, MarkH wrote:

    > The tapes are usually cycled and one tape would not be used more than 50
    > times a year, replacing the tapes every year or two would ensure that the
    > failures would be rare. Generally if last nights tape failed then you at
    > least have the tape from night before last.


    What kind of checking do you do for tape failures? Do you do any periodic
    verification of older backups to ensure they can still be read?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 10, 2006
    #17
  18. In message <Xns983A8523C2ED0daveytaynospamplshot@203.97.37.6>, Dave Taylor
    wrote:

    > MarkH <> wrote in news:dYIMg.200076$Df2.132450
    > @fe05.news.easynews.com:
    >
    >> User error? Surely the verify option would give an error if the data on
    >> the tape did not match the data on the HDD?
    >>
    >> My understanding is that a backup with verify involves:
    >> 1. Sequentially write the data to the tape
    >> 2. Rewind the tape
    >> 3. Read the data from the tape and compare it to the data on the HDD.
    >>
    >> All errors would be logged and it should be obvious from the log whether
    >> the data wrote and verified successfully or not.
    >>

    >
    > No.
    > What can happen is the data is written and checksummed, and verifies ok,
    > but the data itself is corrupted by the backup app before it gets to tape.
    > The data will verify fine, but when you restore a file it is filled with
    > garbage.


    That would be picked up by the procedure that MarkH describes.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 10, 2006
    #18
  19. In message <dYIMg.200076$>, MarkH wrote:

    > My understanding is that a backup with verify involves:
    > 1. Sequentially write the data to the tape
    > 2. Rewind the tape
    > 3. Read the data from the tape and compare it to the data on the HDD.


    Good idea, but it probably won't work if your comparison is being done
    against the live system, since inevitably some files will have changed
    between the start of the backup run and the subsequent verification.

    You'll need to take some kind of static snapshot of the live system and do
    your backup and verification against that.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 10, 2006
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Mackin_NZ Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > I was reading a (p)review of Windows Longhorn Server in the September
    > issue of APC magazine, and was surprised to find out that it drops
    > standard support for tape as a backup medium.
    >
    > I've had very little exposure to tapes for data myself. But I was under
    > the impression that they were the medium of choice for fast,
    > cost-effective, high-volume backups. Obviously they're not that popular
    > any more, otherwise Microsoft wouldn't be leaving it to third parties to
    > fill the gap.
    >
    > Thoughts, anyone? Do you still use tapes for backup? Are they reliable? Do
    > they last very long?
    >
    > ObLinuxBoosterSnipe: another interesting new feature in Longhorn Server is
    > the "Server Core" mode, where the installation runs without any local GUI
    > at all; just a bare command prompt to do initial configuration, with all
    > the rest being controlled remotely. Strike 1: that means you still need a
    > Windows GUI of some sort to manage the system, albeit on another machine.
    > And Strike 2: somebody neglected to tell the IIS folks about this feature,
    > so you can't install this on a machine running in Server Core mode.


    Has anyone tried the Iomega REV drives yet? I see there's now a 70GB
    version available as well as an autoloader.

    http://www.iomega-asia.com/home?p=4750

    Mackin

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Warning: Do not use Ultimate-Anonymity
    They are worthless spamers that are running a scam.
    Mackin_NZ, Sep 10, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Silverstrand

    Duct tape is -indeed- your friend

    Silverstrand, Aug 26, 2005, in forum: The Lounge
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,370
    unholy
    Sep 16, 2005
  2. Robert

    Backup tape drive/Software

    Robert, Jul 7, 2003, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    2,519
    Bobby C
    Jul 8, 2003
  3. Replies:
    3
    Views:
    494
    fygar
    Mar 18, 2005
  4. just looking

    digital tape to DVD

    just looking, Nov 1, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    2,364
    ┬░Mike┬░
    Nov 2, 2003
  5. Krhis

    Tape Drive?

    Krhis, Nov 13, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,978
    Robert de Brus
    Nov 14, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page