NNTP server playing up.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded once and
    read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to me over the last
    few days periodically, seemingly randomly.

    Just wondered if I'm the only one.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 14, 2005
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:14:57 +1300, "~misfit~"
    <> exclaimed:

    >Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded once and
    >read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to me over the last
    >few days periodically, seemingly randomly.
    >
    >Just wondered if I'm the only one.


    Nope, noticed it here, too.

    I'm *so* looking forward to moving away from Orcon.
     
    Fred Dagg, Dec 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded once and
    > read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to me over the last
    > few days periodically, seemingly randomly.
    >
    > Just wondered if I'm the only one.


    DNews is actually good at not showing up duplicate messages. The same
    cannot be said for other products (E.g. the Xtra server in the past).

    Orcon for some reason appear to have fed messages using posting in to
    nntp.orcon.net.nz from news.orcon.net (Actually I expect a separate tool
    did this, but it was running on 60.234.131.32, which is
    news.orcon.net.nz), and while doing so they changed the message-id!

    The other messages, not listing 60.243.131.32 look like they may have
    been sent in using IHAVE instead of posting, but still have the altered
    message-id.

    Craig, please explain why this has happened? What were you doing this for?

    Messages below for you all to comment on.

    The Other Guy

    Subject: heard of oczone?
    From: "outofdate" <outofdate@computer>
    Message-ID: <439e3b90$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!203.97.37.7!news.clear.net.nz

    Subject: Re: Wireless Networks
    From: Rob <>
    Message-ID: <cUrnf.7765$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 222.152.255.203
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!53ab2750!not-for-mail

    Subject: Actrix any good
    From: Fred Dagg <>
    Message-ID: <>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 60.234.1.32
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.orcon.net.nz!news.orcon.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail

    Subject: Re: Wireless Networks
    From: "Alan" <>
    Message-ID: <DIrnf.7761$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.54.249.249
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!53ab2750!not-for-mail

    Subject: Re: Can't access zinio.com
    From: Phstpok <>
    Message-ID: <439e4705$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 203-96-156-10.cable.paradise.net.nz
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!203.109.252.33.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!203.97.37.7!news.clear.net.nz

    Subject: Re: Actrix any good
    From: The Other Guy <>
    Message-ID: <439e38a6$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 60.234.1.32
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.orcon.net.nz!news.orcon.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail

    Subject: Re: heard of oczone?
    From: "XPD" <....nz>
    Message-ID: <>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: drone2-svc-skyt.qsi.net.nz
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!203.109.252.33.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!203.97.37.7!news.clear.net.nz

    Subject: Re: Are Orcon liars? Possible Commerce Commission complaint?
    From: MarkH <>
    Message-ID: <tLrnf.45677$>
    NNTP-Posting-Host:
    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!easynews-local!fe01.news.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
    $
     
    The Other Guy, Dec 14, 2005
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    XPD Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded once
    > and read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to me over the
    > last few days periodically, seemingly randomly.


    I had it the other day as well....Im not on Orcon. :)
     
    XPD, Dec 14, 2005
    #4

  5. >
    > The other messages, not listing 60.243.131.32 look like they may have been
    > sent in using IHAVE instead of posting, but still have the altered
    > message-id.
    >
    > Craig, please explain why this has happened? What were you doing this for?


    Its not done on purpose. I presume you mean 60.234.1.32 not 60.234.131.32

    nntp.orcon.net.nz is not a machine.. we only have 1 usenet server on
    60.234.1.32.
    Found 2 messages below.. 1 coming from giganews and one coming from
    usenet.net.nz

    <439e3b90$>
    <439e3b90$>

    They have different messageid's for some reason :-(
    something is adding gnresend to it..

    See the same problem below.. something is injecting messages again with
    gnresend. Not all messages are affected

    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/co...k=st&q=gnresend&rnum=1&hl=en#1fcdb1fbf964b765



    From: "outofdate" <outofdate@computer>
    Newsgroups: nz.comp
    Subject: heard of oczone?
    Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:09:31 +1300
    Lines: 7
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    Message-ID: <439e3b90$>
    X-Trace: 13 Dec 2005 16:10:08 +1300, 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    Organization: CLEAR Net New Zealand http://www.clear.net.nz - Complaints

    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!203.97.37.7!news.clear.net.nz
    Xref: news.orcon.net.nz nz.comp:318871



    From: "outofdate" <outofdate@computer>
    Newsgroups: nz.comp
    Subject: heard of oczone?
    Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:09:31 +1300
    Lines: 7
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    Message-ID: <439e3b90$>
    X-Trace: 13 Dec 2005 16:10:08 +1300, 218-101-84-42.dialup.clear.net.nz
    Organization: CLEAR Net New Zealand http://www.clear.net.nz - Complaints

    Path:
    news.orcon.net.nz!usenet.net.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!203.97.37.7!news.clear.net.nz
    Xref: news.orcon.net.nz nz.comp:318805

    Thanks
    Craig
     
    Craig Whitmore, Dec 14, 2005
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:14:57 +1300, in message
     <>, ~misfit~ wrote:

    > Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded once and
    > read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to me over the last
    > few days periodically, seemingly randomly.
    >
    > Just wondered if I'm the only one.



    This one doesn't appear to be Orcon's fault.

    What it looks like is as if some jerk (on another news server) went
    on a rogue cancelling spree, and when his or her news service provider
    found out about it the news service provider closed his/her news server
    account and re-sent the cancelled messages (with new message IDs ending
    in ".gnresend").

    • If your ISP honoured the rogue cancels then you would see only the
    re-sent messages.

    • If your ISP did not honour the rogue cancels then you would see
    both the original and the re-sent messages.

    From comparing path headers across different examples, it appears as
    though the re-sending was done at Giganews, with the path preloaded to
    include the original path up to Giganews.


    --
    Cheers
    Ralph Fox

    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such an annoying thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
     
    Ralph Fox, Dec 14, 2005
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Ralph Fox wrote:
    > On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:14:57 +1300, in message
    > <>, ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded
    >> once and read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to
    >> me over the last few days periodically, seemingly randomly.
    >>
    >> Just wondered if I'm the only one.

    >
    >
    > This one doesn't appear to be Orcon's fault.
    >
    > What it looks like is as if some jerk (on another news server) went
    > on a rogue cancelling spree, and when his or her news service provider
    > found out about it the news service provider closed his/her news
    > server account and re-sent the cancelled messages (with new message
    > IDs ending in ".gnresend").
    >
    > . If your ISP honoured the rogue cancels then you would see only the
    > re-sent messages.
    >
    > . If your ISP did not honour the rogue cancels then you would see
    > both the original and the re-sent messages.
    >
    > From comparing path headers across different examples, it appears as
    > though the re-sending was done at Giganews, with the path preloaded to
    > include the original path up to Giganews.


    Thanks for that Ralph. Nice, simple explaination I can understand. :)
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 14, 2005
    #7
  8. Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >>The other messages, not listing 60.243.131.32 look like they may have been
    >>sent in using IHAVE instead of posting, but still have the altered
    >>message-id.
    >>
    >>Craig, please explain why this has happened? What were you doing this for?

    >
    >
    > Its not done on purpose. I presume you mean 60.234.1.32 not 60.234.131.32


    Yes sorry, 60.234.1.32.

    The reason I suspected Orcon was to blame here was the fact that one of
    my posts is in the list of duplicates, and the NNTP-Posting-Host line
    indicates 60.234.1.32. This suggests the message was re-posted from
    news.orcon.net.nz to another system.

    I thought the feeds upstream had been replaced with IHAVE feeds? Posting
    upstream is simply a bad idea.

    These particular messages also only appeared on news.orcon.net.nz yearly
    yesterday morning, not news.xtra.co.nz, no duplicates, so Ralphs
    explanation does not fully explain this behaviour.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Dec 14, 2005
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:
    > Craig Whitmore wrote:
    >>> The other messages, not listing 60.243.131.32 look like they may
    >>> have been sent in using IHAVE instead of posting, but still have
    >>> the altered message-id.
    >>>
    >>> Craig, please explain why this has happened? What were you doing
    >>> this for?

    >>
    >>
    >> Its not done on purpose. I presume you mean 60.234.1.32 not
    >> 60.234.131.32

    >
    > Yes sorry, 60.234.1.32.
    >
    > The reason I suspected Orcon was to blame here was the fact that one
    > of my posts is in the list of duplicates, and the NNTP-Posting-Host
    > line indicates 60.234.1.32. This suggests the message was re-posted
    > from news.orcon.net.nz to another system.
    >
    > I thought the feeds upstream had been replaced with IHAVE feeds?
    > Posting upstream is simply a bad idea.
    >
    > These particular messages also only appeared on news.orcon.net.nz
    > yearly yesterday morning, not news.xtra.co.nz, no duplicates, so
    > Ralphs explanation does not fully explain this behaviour.


    The plot thickens. :)
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 15, 2005
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    XPD wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Anyone else notice posts re-appearing after they've been downloaded
    >> once and read? Orcon's news server of course. Has been happening to
    >> me over the last few days periodically, seemingly randomly.

    >
    > I had it the other day as well....Im not on Orcon. :)


    Ok, thanks. :)
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 15, 2005
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 06:45:39 +1300, in message
     <43a05bfb$>, The Other Guy wrote:

    > Craig Whitmore wrote:
    > >>The other messages, not listing 60.243.131.32 look like they may have been
    > >>sent in using IHAVE instead of posting, but still have the altered
    > >>message-id.
    > >>
    > >>Craig, please explain why this has happened? What were you doing this for?

    > >
    > >
    > > Its not done on purpose. I presume you mean 60.234.1.32 not 60.234.131.32

    >
    > Yes sorry, 60.234.1.32.
    >
    > The reason I suspected Orcon was to blame here was the fact that one of
    > my posts is in the list of duplicates, and the NNTP-Posting-Host line
    > indicates 60.234.1.32. This suggests the message was re-posted from
    > news.orcon.net.nz to another system.
    >
    > I thought the feeds upstream had been replaced with IHAVE feeds? Posting
    > upstream is simply a bad idea.
    >
    > These particular messages also only appeared on news.orcon.net.nz yearly
    > yesterday morning, not news.xtra.co.nz, no duplicates, so Ralphs
    > explanation does not fully explain this behaviour.
    >
    > The Other Guy



    Xtra has the originals without the .gnresend (Xtra did not honour the cancels)
    but not the duplicates (somehow Xtra recognized them as re-sends and did not
    store them).

    Paradise does not have the originals without the .gnresend (Paradise honoured
    the rogue cancels). Paradise does have the re-sends with the .gnresend (they
    were re-sent for the likes of Paradise which honoured the rogue cancels).


    So I compare originals with re-sends, for example the following.

    Message-ID: <7Oqnf.4537$-nyc.rr.com>
    Message-ID: <7Oqnf.4537$-nyc.rr.com.gnresend>

    Message-ID: <>
    Message-ID: <>

    Message-ID: <>
    Message-ID: <>

    Message-ID: <>
    Message-ID: <>

    Message-ID: <>
    Message-ID: <>

    Message-ID: <>
    Message-ID: <>



    --
    Cheers,
    Ralph

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
     
    Ralph Fox, Dec 15, 2005
    #11
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