NiMH Battery Question / Observation

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by steve, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. steve

    steve Guest

    I recently bought a SONY DSC-HS5 digital camera. It uses NiMH AA
    batteries - 2500 mA.

    I have a couple of dozen Everyready NiMH AA 2500mA batteries, so didn't
    buy the additional SONY version batteries offered. I have one pair.

    Looks like I should have bough them.

    The freshly-charged, Everyready NiMH AA batteries barely last 15 minutes
    in the camera, even NOT using the LCD display, while the SONY batteries
    last about 2 hours.

    If the SONY batteries are less 8 times the price of the Everyready
    batteries, they will be better value overall for any similar purpose.

    Must find out the price.

    Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?
     
    steve, Dec 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. steve

    J Brockley Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:458cc138$...
    >I recently bought a SONY DSC-HS5 digital camera. It uses NiMH AA
    >batteries - 2500 mA.
    >
    > I have a couple of dozen Everyready NiMH AA 2500mA batteries, so didn't
    > buy the additional SONY version batteries offered. I have one pair.
    >
    > Looks like I should have bough them.
    >
    > The freshly-charged, Everyready NiMH AA batteries barely last 15 minutes
    > in the camera, even NOT using the LCD display, while the SONY batteries
    > last about 2 hours.
    >
    > If the SONY batteries are less 8 times the price of the Everyready
    > batteries, they will be better value overall for any similar purpose.
    >
    > Must find out the price.
    >
    > Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?


    Had four Everyready 2500 which seemed to be stuffed after a couple of uses.
    Might be worth looking at Sanyo eneloop batteries, bit less capacity but
    long shelf life.
     
    J Brockley, Dec 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. steve

    steve Guest

    J Brockley wrote:

    > Had four Everyready 2500 which seemed to be stuffed after a couple of uses.
    > Might be worth looking at Sanyo eneloop batteries, bit less capacity but
    > long shelf life.


    Having now been trying to use these for while now, I have a theory that
    says Eveready (I wrongly spelled it "everyready") have little interest
    in providing quality rechargable batteries as they make a lot more money
    on the use-once-throw-away versions.

    No one who makes dispoable batteries will be much interested in
    providing good, inexpensive rechargables.

    The SONY NiMH batteries are the first time I have actually a BIG
    difference between two supposedly comparable batteries in the same format.

    They may well be made by Eveready, but to a spec required by
    SONY.....which by itself would be interesting if it were the case.
     
    steve, Dec 23, 2006
    #3
  4. In article <458cc138$>,
    says...
    >
    > Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?
    >
    >


    I bought a set of Everready 2500s with charger when they first came out. A week
    later I took them back and asked for my money back. They just wouldn't hold a
    charge. After a lot of groaning and moaning and pissing around by the Warehouse
    staff I got the dosh, too, with the admonition not to try and buy the same
    product from them ever again :) -- like I was going to, eh!?!

    Generally speaking my experiences with everready are that they must be
    dyslexic: they've left out the initial N.

    My recently acquired Varta 2200 mAh batteries seem good. The Powerex that I
    have had for some 6-8 years now are starting to wear out.

    -Peter

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Dec 23, 2006
    #4
  5. steve

    thingy Guest

    steve wrote:
    > J Brockley wrote:
    >
    >> Had four Everyready 2500 which seemed to be stuffed after a couple of
    >> uses.
    >> Might be worth looking at Sanyo eneloop batteries, bit less capacity
    >> but long shelf life.

    >
    > Having now been trying to use these for while now, I have a theory that
    > says Eveready (I wrongly spelled it "everyready") have little interest
    > in providing quality rechargable batteries as they make a lot more money
    > on the use-once-throw-away versions.
    >
    > No one who makes dispoable batteries will be much interested in
    > providing good, inexpensive rechargables.
    >
    > The SONY NiMH batteries are the first time I have actually a BIG
    > difference between two supposedly comparable batteries in the same format.
    >
    > They may well be made by Eveready, but to a spec required by
    > SONY.....which by itself would be interesting if it were the case.
    >
    >


    I dont know what size you are using but I have found the DSE orange
    re-chargables ones ones pretty good.

    DSE might also sell the genuine Sony ones as well....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Dec 23, 2006
    #5
  6. steve

    steve Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <458cc138$>,
    > says...
    >> Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I bought a set of Everready 2500s with charger when they first came out. A week
    > later I took them back and asked for my money back. They just wouldn't hold a
    > charge.


    Reading what you say, I realise I've seen the same thing.

    With the NiCads, I was in the habit of charging them up and throwing
    them in the drawer for later use....in a week or a month. The NiMH's
    always seem to have lost their charge when used and die quickly when
    used this way.

    I should keep a log and document charge / usage times to remove any
    memory faults on my part.

    I have found the DSE charger charges the batteries in 30% the time of
    the EverReady charger.....which takes 15 hours!!!

    > After a lot of groaning and moaning and pissing around by the Warehouse
    > staff I got the dosh, too, with the admonition not to try and buy the same
    > product from them ever again :) -- like I was going to, eh!?!


    LOL!

    > Generally speaking my experiences with everready are that they must be
    > dyslexic: they've left out the initial N.


    I'll try some other brands....though one has to be careful as they may
    just be re-badged Everyready batteries.

    > My recently acquired Varta 2200 mAh batteries seem good. The Powerex that I
    > have had for some 6-8 years now are starting to wear out.
    >
    > -Peter


    I need to 2500 mAh. I have some high-drain stuff.
     
    steve, Dec 24, 2006
    #6
  7. steve

    Richard Guest

    steve wrote:
    >
    > The freshly-charged, Everyready NiMH AA batteries barely last 15 minutes
    > in the camera, even NOT using the LCD display, while the SONY batteries
    > last about 2 hours.


    In either case thats pretty dismal runtime, but then again digital
    compacts generally do have pretty crap runtime compared with an slr

    I have given up on the everready rechargables I have, they never last
    the distance. The aaa's have replaced the cells in the cordless since
    they are more suited to that, and I use the ones that came with the
    cordless in my flashlights etc.

    The AA's, well I was about to rebuild the pack for a really old
    cellphone with them so I am ready to trade it next time that offer comes
    up, last time they refused since it wouldnt turn on for long enough to
    make a call.
     
    Richard, Dec 24, 2006
    #7
  8. steve

    ~misfit~ Guest

    steve wrote:
    > Peter Huebner wrote:
    > > In article <458cc138$>,
    > > says...
    > > > Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > I bought a set of Everready 2500s with charger when they first came
    > > out. A week later I took them back and asked for my money back.
    > > They just wouldn't hold a charge.

    >
    > Reading what you say, I realise I've seen the same thing.
    >
    > With the NiCads, I was in the habit of charging them up and throwing
    > them in the drawer for later use....in a week or a month. The NiMH's
    > always seem to have lost their charge when used and die quickly when
    > used this way.
    >
    > I should keep a log and document charge / usage times to remove any
    > memory faults on my part.
    >
    > I have found the DSE charger charges the batteries in 30% the time of
    > the EverReady charger.....which takes 15 hours!!!
    >
    > > After a lot of groaning and moaning and pissing around by the
    > > Warehouse staff I got the dosh, too, with the admonition not to try and
    > > buy
    > > the same product from them ever again :) -- like I was going to,
    > > eh!?!

    >
    > LOL!
    >
    > > Generally speaking my experiences with everready are that they must
    > > be dyslexic: they've left out the initial N.

    >
    > I'll try some other brands....though one has to be careful as they may
    > just be re-badged Everyready batteries.
    >
    > > My recently acquired Varta 2200 mAh batteries seem good. The
    > > Powerex that I have had for some 6-8 years now are starting to wear
    > > out. -Peter

    >
    > I need to 2500 mAh. I have some high-drain stuff.


    This page is the last word on NiMH AA battery brands/performance. He used to
    keep it really up to date but I see that he's been a bit slack lately:

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

    Often it's the brand that's more important that the rating, they can vary
    quite a bit, a trend which I would expect to see continue with the ones he's
    yet to test. (See list at the bottom of the results chart)

    Enjoy.
    --
    Shaun.
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 24, 2006
    #8
  9. In article <458e8426$>,
    says...
    >
    > This page is the last word on NiMH AA battery brands/performance. He used to
    > keep it really up to date but I see that he's been a bit slack lately:
    >
    > http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM
    >
    > Often it's the brand that's more important that the rating, they can vary
    > quite a bit, a trend which I would expect to see continue with the ones he's
    > yet to test. (See list at the bottom of the results chart)
    >
    > Enjoy.
    > --
    > Shaun.


    If I read it right, his last test was over a year ago? What really puzzles me
    is that he reports the Everready as the top runner, yet both Steve and I have
    had dysmal results with them. On the other hand, a good local resource is
    ecobatteries.co.nz (I bought a swag of Powerex and NexCell off him) and he says
    the Everready are rebadged Sanyo (as are Sony and Kodak) and that the Sanyo are
    right up there. Maybe it's the Everready chargers that are stuffed? Just a
    thought...

    ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet, though :-\

    -P.


    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Dec 24, 2006
    #9
  10. steve

    steve Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:

    > ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    > opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet, though :-\


    I've seen them at DSE, but they typically aren't rechargeable and they cost
    $30 for a pair of AA's.

    Being throw-away batteries, they aren't THAT much better than a pair of
    NiMH.

    I have compensated for the relatively short life for each charge by having a
    stack of them ready for frequent battery swaps. It still works out vastly
    cheaper than constantly buying throw-away batteries!!

    My first year with a digital camera (AGFA -> 1998) I was headed for spending
    over $2,000 / year on AA batteries for that alone.

    Switching to NiCd's meant I had to change the batteries much more frequently
    (every 20 minutes approx), but overall I spent a tiny fraction on batteries
    in a year ($150 for about a dozen = 3 sets) of what I would have otherwise
    spent.

    --
    Only boring people are bored.
     
    steve, Dec 25, 2006
    #10
  11. steve

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:458cc138$...
    >I recently bought a SONY DSC-HS5 digital camera. It uses NiMH AA
    >batteries - 2500 mA.
    >
    > I have a couple of dozen Everyready NiMH AA 2500mA batteries, so didn't
    > buy the additional SONY version batteries offered. I have one pair.
    >
    > Looks like I should have bough them.
    >
    > The freshly-charged, Everyready NiMH AA batteries barely last 15 minutes
    > in the camera, even NOT using the LCD display, while the SONY batteries
    > last about 2 hours.
    >
    > If the SONY batteries are less 8 times the price of the Everyready
    > batteries, they will be better value overall for any similar purpose.
    >
    > Must find out the price.
    >
    > Anyone else found such a large discrepancy in "stamina"?


    Sounds like you've got a real good charger.

    My Powerhaus charger seemed fine with it's own batteries, not great on
    everyready. Got a cheap charger from Countdown that checks each battery
    individually. Takes about half an hour with some batteries being ready
    before others. They get fully charged and last well.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Dec 25, 2006
    #11
  12. steve

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <458e8426$>,
    > says...
    > >
    > > This page is the last word on NiMH AA battery brands/performance.
    > > He used to keep it really up to date but I see that he's been a bit
    > > slack lately:
    > >
    > > http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM
    > >
    > > Often it's the brand that's more important that the rating, they
    > > can vary quite a bit, a trend which I would expect to see continue
    > > with the ones he's yet to test. (See list at the bottom of the
    > > results chart)
    > >
    > > Enjoy.
    > > --
    > > Shaun.

    >
    > If I read it right, his last test was over a year ago? What really
    > puzzles me is that he reports the Everready as the top runner, yet
    > both Steve and I have had dysmal results with them.


    Is it just me or is everyone except the website author and myself using
    everready and energiser interchangably?

    > On the other
    > hand, a good local resource is ecobatteries.co.nz (I bought a swag of
    > Powerex and NexCell off him)


    I've also bought some Powerex from Ian and talked to him via email about
    various batteries.

    > and he says the Everready are rebadged
    > Sanyo (as are Sony and Kodak) and that the Sanyo are right up there.
    > Maybe it's the Everready chargers that are stuffed? Just a thought...


    Possibly. Although, typically, re-badgers aren't locked into contracts, they
    could source different batches from different suppliers as prices change.
    The main advantage of re-badging.

    > ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    > opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet, though
    > :-\


    And you're not likely to.

    Li-Ion cells (as opposed to Lithium cells) typically run at 3.7V per cell
    making them unsuitable for use in devices that use standard size 1.5V/1.2V
    cells. Imagine the havoc that would ensue if 3.7V Li-Ion AA cells were
    available and people started using them in devices designed for 1.5V
    alkalines or 1.2V Ni-Cad or Ni-MH. Chaos. Considering the energy-density of
    Li-Ion batteries they wouldn't have to be made by Sony to go bang if
    inserted in a camera expecting 1.2V cells..

    Consequently the major use for Li-Ion is in custom battery packs such as
    those found in cell-phones, laptops, video-cameras etc.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 25, 2006
    #12
  13. steve

    ~misfit~ Guest

    steve wrote:
    > Peter Huebner wrote:
    >
    > > ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    > > opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet,
    > > though :-\

    >
    > I've seen them at DSE, but they typically aren't rechargeable and
    > they cost $30 for a pair of AA's.
    >
    > Being throw-away batteries, they aren't THAT much better than a pair
    > of NiMH.


    You're getting confused with Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium batteries.
    Big difference. One is rechargeable, one isn't. One is 3.7V, one is 1.5V
    (peaking at 1.8V sometimes). Google is your friend.

    > I have compensated for the relatively short life for each charge by
    > having a stack of them ready for frequent battery swaps. It still
    > works out vastly cheaper than constantly buying throw-away batteries!!


    You're not talking about Lithium ot Li-Ion batteries now huh?
    --
    Shaun.

    > My first year with a digital camera (AGFA -> 1998) I was headed for
    > spending over $2,000 / year on AA batteries for that alone.
    >
    > Switching to NiCd's meant I had to change the batteries much more
    > frequently (every 20 minutes approx), but overall I spent a tiny
    > fraction on batteries in a year ($150 for about a dozen = 3 sets) of
    > what I would have otherwise spent.
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 25, 2006
    #13
  14. steve

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <1167038077.226045@ftpsrv1>,
    "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote:
    >
    >My Powerhaus charger seemed fine with it's own batteries, not great on
    >everyready. Got a cheap charger from Countdown that checks each battery
    >individually. Takes about half an hour with some batteries being ready
    >before others. They get fully charged and last well.


    The $40 house brand (Signature Range) fast charger from Woolworths seems to
    work OK. Each cell is individually sensed. I haven't done any capacity
    tests, though - I use the cells for kids' toys, where quick charge to a
    usable state is more important than maximum capacity.

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, Dec 26, 2006
    #14
  15. steve

    steve Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > steve wrote:
    >> Peter Huebner wrote:
    >>
    >>> ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    >>> opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet,
    >>> though :-\

    >> I've seen them at DSE, but they typically aren't rechargeable and
    >> they cost $30 for a pair of AA's.
    >>
    >> Being throw-away batteries, they aren't THAT much better than a pair
    >> of NiMH.

    >
    > You're getting confused with Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium batteries.
    > Big difference. One is rechargeable, one isn't. One is 3.7V, one is 1.5V
    > (peaking at 1.8V sometimes). Google is your friend.


    Ta...I'll look into it. :)

    >
    >> I have compensated for the relatively short life for each charge by
    >> having a stack of them ready for frequent battery swaps. It still
    >> works out vastly cheaper than constantly buying throw-away batteries!!

    >
    > You're not talking about Lithium ot Li-Ion batteries now huh?


    Oh probably......
     
    steve, Dec 26, 2006
    #15
  16. steve

    MarkH Guest

    Peter Huebner <> wrote in
    news::

    > If I read it right, his last test was over a year ago? What really
    > puzzles me is that he reports the Everready as the top runner, yet
    > both Steve and I have had dysmal results with them. On the other hand,
    > a good local resource is ecobatteries.co.nz (I bought a swag of
    > Powerex and NexCell off him) and he says the Everready are rebadged
    > Sanyo (as are Sony and Kodak) and that the Sanyo are right up there.
    > Maybe it's the Everready chargers that are stuffed? Just a thought...


    I read the negative comments on the Energiser 2500mAh NiMH AA cells and was
    surprised - I have a set and they are very good. But you guys are using
    the Energiser charger? I have 3 chargers and none of them are the cheap
    crap made by (for) energiser. Using a rubbish chargers is not the way to
    get the best out of you NiMH cells!

    > ... on the same topic, I am looking to change over to Li-Ion as the
    > opportunity arises. Don't see any Li-Ion AA cells around yet, though
    > :-\


    You won't see 3.7V AAs anytime soon, they will stick to chemistries that
    provide 1.2 - 1.5V.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 23-Nov-06)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Dec 27, 2006
    #16
  17. In article <9vCkh.147681$>,
    says...
    >
    > I read the negative comments on the Energiser 2500mAh NiMH AA cells and was
    > surprised - I have a set and they are very good. But you guys are using
    > the Energiser charger? I have 3 chargers and none of them are the cheap
    > crap made by (for) energiser. Using a rubbish chargers is not the way to
    > get the best out of you NiMH cells!
    >


    You're quite right there. I DID use the Everready charger with the Everready
    batteries though, and they wouldn't hold a charge (or didn't get charged up)
    right from the word go. I.I.R.C. I did the charge as per instructions and the
    batteries didn't manage to power my mouse for more than 2 hours. I was not in
    the mood to experiment, I took them straight back (having had very bad
    experiences with bad Everready/Energizer products before - e.g. $300 camera
    repair because 'new' alkaline batteries leaked) -- I really don't trust them at
    all.

    Yardstick: my shagged out 6+ year old powerex cells still power the same mouse
    for 2-4 days (several hours of intense gaming use each day).

    As somebody said: if it's true that they rebadge, there's no telling what's
    actually under the label. You might've got top notch merchandise where we got
    crap.

    cheers, -Peter

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Dec 28, 2006
    #17
  18. In article <9vCkh.147681$>,
    says...
    >
    > You won't see 3.7V AAs anytime soon, they will stick to chemistries that
    > provide 1.2 - 1.5V.
    >


    I was probably not clear in that statement: I am not waiting for Li-ion AA
    batteries, but I am looking to convert what systems we use: our walkie talkies
    for the farm are now Li-Ion, one phone is, and the next cordless drill may well
    end up that way too. I am still waiting and hoping that the technology will
    improve further for the drill batteries before I have to replace the old ones
    :) but they are already out there.

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Dec 28, 2006
    #18
  19. In message <>, Peter Huebner
    wrote:

    > ... our walkie
    > talkies for the farm are now Li-Ion, one phone is, and the next cordless
    > drill may well end up that way too.


    Aren't Li-ion batteries the ones that can explode if they're not properly
    made?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 28, 2006
    #19
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