Nikon full frame sensor SRL

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by massimo, Oct 3, 2005.

  1. massimo

    massimo Guest

    news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???
    ml
     
    massimo, Oct 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "massimo" <> wrote:
    > news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???


    As I understand it, Nikon has explicitly stated that they will not be
    releasing a full-frame DSLR.

    If they do, everyone will be surprised.

    Until they do, the Nikon fans will continue to vociferously promote and
    defend the insanely illogical idea that smaller sensors are better than
    larger sensors.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. New Nikon cameras? (was: Re: Nikon full frame sensor SRL)

    massimo wrote:
    > news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???
    > ml


    You mean SLR, by the way.

    I hear rumours that Nikon are preparing two new (non-SLR?) cameras based
    on the APS-sized chip used in the new Sony R1 camera.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Oct 3, 2005
    #3
  4. massimo

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    Not going to happen...

    If you want FF, sell the Nikon gear and buy Canon. It's the only choice.
    Which may explain the $3K price for the 5D.

    "massimo" <> wrote in message
    news:dhqo8r$llu$...
    > news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???
    > ml
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Oct 3, 2005
    #4
  5. massimo

    Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    Of course Nokon is to gtoing to have the full-frame SLRs.
    -- Full frame APS.

    A.R



    David J. Littleboy wrote:
    > "massimo" <> wrote:
    > > news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???

    >
    > As I understand it, Nikon has explicitly stated that they will not be
    > releasing a full-frame DSLR.
    >
    > If they do, everyone will be surprised.
    >
    > Until they do, the Nikon fans will continue to vociferously promote and
    > defend the insanely illogical idea that smaller sensors are better than
    > larger sensors.
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan
     
    , Oct 4, 2005
    #5
  6. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    In article <dhqord$9bs$>, David J. Littleboy
    <> writes
    >
    >As I understand it, Nikon has explicitly stated that they will not be
    >releasing a full-frame DSLR.
    >

    What, never?

    Rarely are companies so open about their planned demise, and never is a
    very long time. ;-)
    --
    Kennedy
    Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
    A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
    Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Oct 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "Kennedy McEwen" <> wrote:
    > David J. Littleboy <> writes
    >>
    >>As I understand it, Nikon has explicitly stated that they will not be
    >>releasing a full-frame DSLR.
    >>

    > What, never?


    Well, hardly ever.

    But note that I didn't specify a time frame, and the normal inference from
    that syntactic construction sees it as including an implicit "in the
    immediately forseeable future".

    > Rarely are companies so open about their planned demise,
    > and never is a very long time. ;-)


    Well, that's why I said, in the part that you snipped, that everyone will be
    surprised if it happens, although perhaps that "if" ought to have been a
    "when"<g>.

    At one point, I seem to remember, Canon announced that they wouldn't be
    making digital-only lenses...

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 4, 2005
    #7
  8. massimo

    Rich Guest

    On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:19:46 -0400, "Kinon O'Cann"
    <> wrote:

    >Not going to happen...
    >
    >If you want FF, sell the Nikon gear and buy Canon. It's the only choice.
    >Which may explain the $3K price for the 5D.


    Or, keep your higher than Canon quality Nikon lenses and go find a
    Kodak DSLR.
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Oct 4, 2005
    #8
  9. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    In article <dhskgc$qbs$>, David J. Littleboy
    <> writes
    >
    >Well, that's why I said, in the part that you snipped, that everyone will be
    >surprised if it happens, although perhaps that "if" ought to have been a
    >"when"<g>.
    >

    Personally, I would have been surprised *if* it happened before Nikon
    ditched CCDs, but not surprised *when* it happens now that they have.
    ;-)
    --
    Kennedy
    Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
    A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
    Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
     
    Kennedy McEwen, Oct 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "Kennedy McEwen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <dhskgc$qbs$>, David J. Littleboy
    > <> writes
    >>
    >>Well, that's why I said, in the part that you snipped, that everyone will
    >>be
    >>surprised if it happens, although perhaps that "if" ought to have been a
    >>"when"<g>.
    >>

    > Personally, I would have been surprised *if* it happened before Nikon
    > ditched CCDs, but not surprised *when* it happens now that they have. ;-)


    Ah, but you're not 'everyone'. 'Everyone' means the Nikonistas who
    vociferously claim that a smaller sensor has to be better and we Canonistas
    who are having fun making fun of the Nikonistas' logically untenable
    position.

    I'd love to see Nikon do full-frame: it'll force Canon to work even harder
    and bring the prices down, and the frantic backpedaling of the Nikonistas
    will be hilarious.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 4, 2005
    #10
  11. massimo

    BillyBob Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
    news:dhsn22$r01$...
    >
    > "Kennedy McEwen" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <dhskgc$qbs$>, David J. Littleboy
    > > <> writes
    > >>
    > >>Well, that's why I said, in the part that you snipped, that everyone

    will
    > >>be
    > >>surprised if it happens, although perhaps that "if" ought to have been a
    > >>"when"<g>.
    > >>

    > > Personally, I would have been surprised *if* it happened before Nikon
    > > ditched CCDs, but not surprised *when* it happens now that they have.

    ;-)
    >
    > Ah, but you're not 'everyone'. 'Everyone' means the Nikonistas who
    > vociferously claim that a smaller sensor has to be better and we

    Canonistas
    > who are having fun making fun of the Nikonistas' logically untenable
    > position.


    I am not trying to start a religious war of FF vs APS size sensors but it is
    not just he sensor size that determines the image quality - as I understand
    it extreme wide angle lenses function better with a smaller sensor since the
    light hits the sensor more directly than it would on a FF - The camera
    "system" as a whole needs to be optimized for the highest image quality.

    As a side note APS vs FF vs large format sensor makes no difference if there
    is an idiot behind the camera taking the picture - a crappy picture is still
    a crappy picture no matter what equipment it was taken with. . .

    BB

    > I'd love to see Nikon do full-frame: it'll force Canon to work even harder
    > and bring the prices down, and the frantic backpedaling of the Nikonistas
    > will be hilarious.
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan
     
    BillyBob, Oct 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "BillyBob" <> wrote:
    >
    > I am not trying to start a religious war of FF vs APS size sensors but it
    > is
    > not just he sensor size that determines the image quality - as I
    > understand
    > it extreme wide angle lenses function better with a smaller sensor since
    > the
    > light hits the sensor more directly than it would on a FF - The camera
    > "system" as a whole needs to be optimized for the highest image quality.


    As I've repeated a zillion times before: these are SLRs, and all wide angle
    lenses are retrofocus lense, since they have to clear the mirror. The rear
    element is a long way from the sensor, and the angles of incidence are
    simply not a problem. People are getting great images from the Stigma 12-24
    and 15-30. It's just not a problem.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 4, 2005
    #12
  13. massimo

    Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    David J. Littleboy wrote:
    > "BillyBob" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > I am not trying to start a religious war of FF vs APS size sensors but it
    > > is
    > > not just he sensor size that determines the image quality - as I
    > > understand
    > > it extreme wide angle lenses function better with a smaller sensor since
    > > the
    > > light hits the sensor more directly than it would on a FF - The camera
    > > "system" as a whole needs to be optimized for the highest image quality.

    >
    > As I've repeated a zillion times before: these are SLRs, and all wide angle
    > lenses are retrofocus lense, since they have to clear the mirror. The rear
    > element is a long way from the sensor, and the angles of incidence are
    > simply not a problem. People are getting great images from the Stigma 12-24
    > and 15-30. It's just not a problem.
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan


    The only camera system that (I) could possibly (imagine) have this
    problem would be the Epson Rd-1 (the digital version of the
    Voightlaender Bessa R), because some of the wide-angle lenses have the
    rear element mere milimetres away from the sensor.
    These cameras are so rare and expensive (compared to FF camera like the
    EOS 5D), that I don't think that we will here many complaints
    surfacing.
    I have used a Peleng 8mm fisheye lens on my Pentax ist DS and the
    images look fine (assuming that you like the ultra-fisheye effect),
    even wide open at f 1:3.5.
     
    , Oct 4, 2005
    #13
  14. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    In article <dhsn22$r01$>,
    David J. Littleboy <> wrote:
    >"Kennedy McEwen" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Personally, I would have been surprised *if* it happened before Nikon
    >> ditched CCDs, but not surprised *when* it happens now that they have. ;-)

    >
    >Ah, but you're not 'everyone'. 'Everyone' means the Nikonistas who
    >vociferously claim that a smaller sensor has to be better and we Canonistas
    >who are having fun making fun of the Nikonistas' logically untenable
    >position.
    >
    >I'd love to see Nikon do full-frame: it'll force Canon to work even harder
    >and bring the prices down, and the frantic backpedaling of the Nikonistas
    >will be hilarious.


    Personally, I think Nikon will introduce a FF 35mm digital SLR when increasing
    the pixel desity on (APS-C) sensors (or improving them in other ways) is no
    longer an option.

    If Nikon thinks they can manage 16 or 20 Mpixel APS-C sensors, then the
    next generations are likely to be APS-C. The same applies to sensitivity
    improvements.


    --
    That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
    could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
    by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
    -- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
     
    Philip Homburg, Oct 4, 2005
    #14
  15. massimo

    Chris Brown Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    In article <>,
    <> wrote:
    >
    >The only camera system that (I) could possibly (imagine) have this
    >problem would be the Epson Rd-1 (the digital version of the
    >Voightlaender Bessa R), because some of the wide-angle lenses have the
    >rear element mere milimetres away from the sensor.


    You want to live dangerously, try sticking a Jupiter 12 (Soviet 35mm Biogon
    clone) on one. If you're lucky, the lens will be out-of-spec enough such
    that the shutter blades don't hit the rear element when they open. If not,
    the first time you hit the shutter-release, there will be a nasty scraping
    sound and your nice expensive rangefinder will be ruined.
     
    Chris Brown, Oct 4, 2005
    #15
  16. massimo

    Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    Chris Brown wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >The only camera system that (I) could possibly (imagine) have this
    > >problem would be the Epson Rd-1 (the digital version of the
    > >Voightlaender Bessa R), because some of the wide-angle lenses have the
    > >rear element mere milimetres away from the sensor.

    >
    > You want to live dangerously, try sticking a Jupiter 12 (Soviet 35mm Biogon
    > clone) on one. If you're lucky, the lens will be out-of-spec enough such
    > that the shutter blades don't hit the rear element when they open. If not,
    > the first time you hit the shutter-release, there will be a nasty scraping
    > sound and your nice expensive rangefinder will be ruined.


    I wish that I could afford to live that dangerously! ;-)
    If I had a spare US $3500, I'd spend it on something versatile.
    Like a Canon EOS 5D :)
     
    , Oct 4, 2005
    #16
  17. massimo

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:19:46 -0400, "Kinon O'Cann"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Not going to happen...
    >>
    >>If you want FF, sell the Nikon gear and buy Canon. It's the only choice.
    >>Which may explain the $3K price for the 5D.

    >
    > Or, keep your higher than Canon quality Nikon lenses and go find a
    > Kodak DSLR.


    I tried one. They're horrible. Under the right conditions you can produce
    nice images, but for many of us, conditions aren't always right. Slow AF,
    big clumsy body, and incredible moire on many photos. I sent it back.

    > -Rich
     
    Kinon O'Cann, Oct 4, 2005
    #17
  18. massimo

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <22u0f.3$>,
    Kinon O'Cann <> wrote:
    >
    >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:19:46 -0400, "Kinon O'Cann"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Not going to happen...
    >>>
    >>>If you want FF, sell the Nikon gear and buy Canon. It's the only choice.
    >>>Which may explain the $3K price for the 5D.

    >>
    >> Or, keep your higher than Canon quality Nikon lenses and go find a
    >> Kodak DSLR.

    >
    >I tried one. They're horrible. Under the right conditions you can produce
    >nice images, but for many of us, conditions aren't always right. Slow AF,
    >big clumsy body, and incredible moire on many photos. I sent it back.


    Nikon users wanting full frame might be better served with an EOS 5D and a
    lens mount adapter, as long as they don't mind manual focus and stop-down
    metering.
     
    Chris Brown, Oct 4, 2005
    #18
  19. massimo

    Father Kodak Guest

    Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:06:56 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
    <> wrote:

    >"massimo" <> wrote:
    >> news about a full frame sensor Nikon SRL ???

    >
    >As I understand it, Nikon has explicitly stated that they will not be
    >releasing a full-frame DSLR.
    >
    >If they do, everyone will be surprised.


    No one will be surprised, certainly not Canon, nor Kodak, and not me.
    The only questions are when and how much.

    "never" is a marketing code word for "not yet". Everyone by now has
    learned about pre-announcements and "doing an osborne." Any reader of
    this posting not part of "everyone" can learn about it here:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/25/portable_computer_pioneer_adam_osborne/

    or many other postings that Google will identify for you.

    >
    >Until they do, the Nikon fans will continue to vociferously promote and
    >defend the insanely illogical idea that smaller sensors are better than
    >larger sensors.


    All this idle chatter about "us vs. them" is just a waste of Usenet
    bandwidth and our precious bodily fluids.
    >
    >David J. Littleboy
    >Tokyo, Japan
    >


    Littleboy-san,

    Instead of this, how about taking a stroll down to the Yodobashi or
    Sakura store, and asking the shop clerks what they have heard, or
    think. THAT would be useful. Or maybe Nikon House on Ginza.

    Pere Kodak
     
    Father Kodak, Oct 7, 2005
    #19
  20. Re: Nikon full frame sensor SLR

    "Father Kodak" <> wrote:
    >
    > Instead of this, how about taking a stroll down to the Yodobashi or
    > Sakura store, and asking the shop clerks what they have heard, or
    > think. THAT would be useful. Or maybe Nikon House on Ginza.


    No, it wouldn't be useful. I've done all that a lot, and one only gets the
    official story. Sheesh, I called Fuji about a week before they discontinued
    the GSW690III, and the engineer sounded honestly surprised that such a rumor
    would be flying...

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 7, 2005
    #20
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