Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by dumbtroll@live.com, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. Guest

    , Nov 14, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bill Guest

    On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, wrote:

    >These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:
    >
    >
    >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-details.html
    >
    >Or:
    >
    >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/dig...rebel-xti-400d-with-lens_product-details.html
    >
    >
    >
    >I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    >which one
    >fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    >decision.....



    I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
    looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
    option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
    different conditions and would'nt want to do without.

    Also I have read that many people love and use the front, rear curtain
    and slow sync flash options that the Canon lacks.

    Bill
    Bill, Nov 14, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. wrote:

    [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]

    Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and Chevy
    or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...

    > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    > which one
    > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    > decision.....


    That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with the
    camera then it is no good for _you_.

    My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
    D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't fit
    the hand.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 14, 2007
    #3
  4. Guest

    On Nov 14, 3:27 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    > [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >
    > Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and Chevy
    > or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...
    >
    > > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    > > which one
    > > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    > > decision.....

    >
    > That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with the
    > camera then it is no good for _you_.
    >
    > My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
    > D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't fit
    > the hand.
    >
    > jue


    Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    either of these cameras?

    My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    pic.....
    , Nov 15, 2007
    #4
  5. On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:06:18 -0800 (PST), <> wrote:
    > On Nov 14, 3:27 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>
    >> Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and Chevy
    >> or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...
    >>
    >> > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    >> > which one
    >> > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    >> > decision.....

    >>
    >> That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with the
    >> camera then it is no good for _you_.
    >>
    >> My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
    >> D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't fit
    >> the hand.
    >>
    >> jue

    >
    > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    > either of these cameras?


    No. Some DSLRs can do that (it's a feature usually called Live View or
    something similar), but neither the D40 nor the 400D offer it. For
    Canon, you'd need the 40D and for Nikon the brand-new D300. In both
    cases, those are bodies that are quite a bit more expensive than the
    ones you are considering.

    -dms
    Daniel Silevitch, Nov 15, 2007
    #5
  6. wrote:
    >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]

    > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    > either of these cameras?


    No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.

    > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    > pic.....


    If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 15, 2007
    #6
  7. Guest

    On Nov 14, 3:23 pm, Bill <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, wrote:
    > >These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:

    >
    > >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-de...

    >
    > >Or:

    >
    > >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/canon-digital-rebel-x...

    >
    > >I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    > >which one
    > >fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    > >decision.....

    >
    > I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
    > looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
    > option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
    > different conditions and would'nt want to do without.
    >


    I believe the Canon 400D indeed DOES have spot
    metering, except they call it "partial metering", which
    uses a 9.5% area in the middle of the screen:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page8.asp
    , Nov 15, 2007
    #7
  8. Guest

    On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]

    > > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    > > either of these cameras?

    >
    > No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >
    > > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    > > pic.....

    >
    > If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    > apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >

    But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    on the more expensive 40D.

    It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    without hugging the floor.

    Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    , Nov 15, 2007
    #8
  9. On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:

    >On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >> > either of these cameras?

    >>
    >> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>
    >> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >> > pic.....

    >>
    >> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    >> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>

    > But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >on the more expensive 40D.
    >
    > It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >without hugging the floor.
    >
    > Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    >


    Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are fairly
    immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
    photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have never been
    nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice as if
    they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot those
    trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are just
    insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much money. Not
    being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is exactly why
    I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to digital. For
    all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to the
    craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never know of
    their benefits.

    True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be had in
    many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S cameras. But
    if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for accurate
    composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for difficult
    shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in extremely
    dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time before you
    even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be displayed on an
    EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling you
    what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle for a
    camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.

    Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this might be
    important to you:

    http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

    An overview of all the additional features
    http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage

    You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S cameras with
    an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or without
    "live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK camera can
    do today.
    wilson granger, Nov 15, 2007
    #9
  10. wrote:
    > On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>> either of these cameras?

    >> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>
    >>> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>> pic.....

    >> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    >> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>

    > But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    > on the more expensive 40D.
    >
    > It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    > crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    > without hugging the floor.
    >
    > Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!


    It can be useful, but of course there is a trade-off when you're using
    live-view.

    What you absolutely want to avoid is any P&S camera that lacks an
    optical or electronic viewfinder, or you'll be doing the
    "hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise" all the time.

    The G1, G2, G3, G5, & G6 were great with their articulating LCD, which
    was the victim of decontenting on the G7 and the G9.

    Anyway, the bottom line is that there is really no P&S camera that meets
    your criteria. The few low-noise P&S cameras are not >=10 megapixel, and
    the few >=10 megapixel P&S cameras have noise issues, plus other issues
    as well, that eliminate them from consideration.

    The question really comes down to which D-SLR to get. Personally, I
    would get the 40D if at all possible, as it has a lot of advantages over
    the 400D.
    =?UTF-8?B?U01TIOaWr+iSguaWh+KAoiDlpI8=?=, Nov 15, 2007
    #10
  11. wilson granger () wrote:

    > Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    > fairly immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what

    [...]

    Thank you very much for the deep insight you are offering in your
    very first posting ever to this NG. You surely must have a lot of
    experience.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Nov 15, 2007
    #11
  12. Hank Arden Guest

    On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:16:26 GMT, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:

    >wilson granger () wrote:
    >
    >> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    >> fairly immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what

    >[...]
    >
    >Thank you very much for the deep insight you are offering in your
    >very first posting ever to this NG. You surely must have a lot of
    >experience.
    >
    >jue
    >


    Yes, isn't it a shame when even a first time poster knows more than you ever
    will. Catch up.

    Oh wait, you can't. Try buying a camera sometime for a start.
    Hank Arden, Nov 15, 2007
    #12
  13. Sosumi Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Nov 14, 3:23 pm, Bill <> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, wrote:
    >> >These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:

    >>
    >> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-de...

    >>
    >> >Or:

    >>
    >> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/canon-digital-rebel-x...

    >>
    >> >I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    >> >which one
    >> >fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    >> >decision.....

    >>
    >> I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
    >> looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
    >> option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
    >> different conditions and would'nt want to do without.
    >>

    >
    > I believe the Canon 400D indeed DOES have spot
    > metering, except they call it "partial metering", which
    > uses a 9.5% area in the middle of the screen:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page8.asp



    That´s not a spot, that´s a stain.
    D40x: 3.5 mm or 2.5% of the screen...

    --
    "I don´t need a camera,
    I have a photographic memory..."
    Sosumi
    Sosumi, Nov 15, 2007
    #13
  14. Sosumi Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Nov 14, 3:27 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    > [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >
    > Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and
    > Chevy
    > or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...
    >
    > > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
    > > which one
    > > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
    > > decision.....

    >
    > That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with
    > the
    > camera then it is no good for _you_.
    >
    > My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
    > D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't
    > fit
    > the hand.
    >
    > jue


    Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    either of these cameras?

    My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    pic.....

    The Olympus E-410 and 510 can, but the sensors are quite smaller, which you
    pay for in losing dynamic range. I brought my 510 back to the store after I
    saw the results...
    Not cheap either and the lenses are more expensive than either Nikon or
    Canon.

    --
    "I don´t need a camera,
    I have a photographic memory..."
    Sosumi
    Sosumi, Nov 15, 2007
    #14
  15. Sosumi Guest

    "wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:
    >
    >>On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >>> wrote:
    >>> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>> > either of these cameras?
    >>>
    >>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>>
    >>> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>> > pic.....
    >>>
    >>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many
    >>> people
    >>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>>

    >> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >>on the more expensive 40D.
    >>
    >> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >>crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >>without hugging the floor.
    >>
    >> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    >>

    >
    > Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    > fairly
    > immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
    > photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have never
    > been
    > nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice
    > as if
    > they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot
    > those
    > trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are
    > just
    > insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much
    > money. Not
    > being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is
    > exactly why
    > I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to digital.
    > For
    > all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to
    > the
    > craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never
    > know of
    > their benefits.
    >
    > True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be had
    > in
    > many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S
    > cameras. But
    > if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for
    > accurate
    > composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for
    > difficult
    > shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in
    > extremely
    > dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time before
    > you
    > even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be displayed
    > on an
    > EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling
    > you
    > what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle
    > for a
    > camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.
    >
    > Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this
    > might be
    > important to you:
    >
    > http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
    >
    > An overview of all the additional features
    > http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage
    >
    > You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S cameras
    > with
    > an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or
    > without
    > "live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK
    > camera can
    > do today.
    >


    If bullshit could fly, you´d be in orbit...

    Yes, DO check this wonder called CHDK. What a miracle it is. A histogram?
    Check, my D40 and D40x got it. RAW? Video? No, I have a $200.- camcorder for
    that.
    Motion detection? Yep, I see the police all the time with Powershots,
    detecting motion at airports etc.
    With my cheap camcorder I can have motion detection and even can have the
    camcorder record to the computer, track the motion automatically, zoom in
    automatically, all computer controlled. But I guess this CHDK can do all of
    that too, right?
    O, you can play GAMES with it too. I bet in Playstation 2 quality with Dolby
    surround sound,LOL
    Of course it´s only Canon that has this BS.

    About the DSLR´s you´re right of course. Hasselblad is just being silly
    making $30,000.- DSLR bodies only. Canon and Nikon are crazy to think they
    can sell zoom lenses for 10,000.- You should tell them, that they can use
    Canon Point & Shit camera´s for the same quality...

    I don´t try to make a fool of you; you´re doing fine just on your own...


    --
    "I don´t need a camera,
    I have a photographic memory..."
    Sosumi
    Sosumi, Nov 15, 2007
    #15
  16. On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:02:18 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:

    >"wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>>> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>>> > either of these cameras?
    >>>>
    >>>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>>>
    >>>> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>>> > pic.....
    >>>>
    >>>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many
    >>>> people
    >>>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>>>
    >>> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >>>on the more expensive 40D.
    >>>
    >>> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >>>crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >>>without hugging the floor.
    >>>
    >>> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    >>>

    >>
    >> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    >> fairly
    >> immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
    >> photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have never
    >> been
    >> nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice
    >> as if
    >> they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot
    >> those
    >> trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are
    >> just
    >> insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much
    >> money. Not
    >> being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is
    >> exactly why
    >> I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to digital.
    >> For
    >> all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to
    >> the
    >> craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never
    >> know of
    >> their benefits.
    >>
    >> True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be had
    >> in
    >> many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S
    >> cameras. But
    >> if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for
    >> accurate
    >> composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for
    >> difficult
    >> shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in
    >> extremely
    >> dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time before
    >> you
    >> even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be displayed
    >> on an
    >> EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling
    >> you
    >> what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle
    >> for a
    >> camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.
    >>
    >> Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this
    >> might be
    >> important to you:
    >>
    >> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
    >>
    >> An overview of all the additional features
    >> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage
    >>
    >> You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S cameras
    >> with
    >> an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or
    >> without
    >> "live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK
    >> camera can
    >> do today.
    >>

    >
    >If bullshit could fly, you´d be in orbit...


    If envy was money you'd be Bill Gates. :)

    >
    >Yes, DO check this wonder called CHDK. What a miracle it is. A histogram?


    No, 7 different histogram options showing you real-time views of all Y-RGB
    channels.

    >Check, my D40 and D40x got it.


    No, you actually don't. Read above.

    > RAW? Video? No, I have a $200.- camcorder for
    >that.


    Good, now can you select from 108 different MJPEG compression levels and modes
    with it? If you carry both your camera and camcorder are they smaller than a P&S
    camera? Both combined are also less than the cost of a P&S camera?

    Keep trying fool. :)

    >Motion detection? Yep, I see the police all the time with Powershots,
    >detecting motion at airports etc.


    Wow, are you an idiot.

    >With my cheap camcorder I can have motion detection and even can have the
    >camcorder record to the computer, track the motion automatically, zoom in
    >automatically, all computer controlled. But I guess this CHDK can do all of
    >that too, right?


    Actually, it can! Thanks for bringing this up! But you don't even need to have
    it hooked up to a computer to do all that. A pity that you have to tether yours
    to a computer. That really limits the places you can use those features.

    >O, you can play GAMES with it too. I bet in Playstation 2 quality with Dolby
    >surround sound,LOL


    No, nothing that elaborate, just a couple simple games included to pass the time
    while waiting for someone like you to figure out which lens should go on your
    camera, and waiting for you to deal with the security guards while they're
    telling you that you can't bring your piece-of-shit dSLR into that public event
    because of all the noise it makes.

    >Of course it´s only Canon that has this BS.


    BS means that it's lies. The only lie here is your claim of BS. All these things
    are facts, not lies, not BS. The only BS around here is yours.

    >
    >About the DSLR´s you´re right of course. Hasselblad is just being silly
    >making $30,000.- DSLR bodies only. Canon and Nikon are crazy to think they
    >can sell zoom lenses for 10,000.- You should tell them, that they can use
    >Canon Point & Shit camera´s for the same quality...


    No, they're not being silly at all! They know perfectly well how to trick a fool
    out of his money. Why do you think they charge so much? Because THEY CAN!

    LOL

    >
    >I don´t try to make a fool of you; you´re doing fine just on your own...


    The only reason you don't, is because you can't.

    The only fools around here are people like you who can't deal with the fact that
    an inexpensive P&S camera can do more than your dSLR and camcorder combined for
    less than 1/10th the cost.

    Deal with it.
    wilson granger, Nov 15, 2007
    #16
  17. "Jurgen Exner" <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]

    >> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >> either of these cameras?


    > No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.


    >> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >> pic.....


    > If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    > apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.


    I don't think they prefer holding the camera at arms length, it's just
    that they can't focus their eyes any closer than that.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Nov 15, 2007
    #17
  18. SMS ????????? ??? <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jurgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >>> wrote:
    >>>>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]


    >>>> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>>> either of these cameras?
    >>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>>
    >>>> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>>> pic.....
    >>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
    >>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>>

    >> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >> on the more expensive 40D.
    >>
    >> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >> crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >> without hugging the floor.
    >>
    >> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!


    > It can be useful, but of course there is a trade-off when you're using
    > live-view.


    > What you absolutely want to avoid is any P&S camera that lacks an
    > optical or electronic viewfinder, or you'll be doing the
    > "hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise" all the time.


    Only if you can't focus your eyes any closer! You get the most out of
    an LCD image display if you can use it close enough to see the pixels.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Nov 15, 2007
    #18
  19. Sosumi Guest

    "wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:02:18 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:
    >
    >>"wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>>>> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>>>> > either of these cameras?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>>>> > pic.....
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many
    >>>>> people
    >>>>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>>>>
    >>>> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >>>>on the more expensive 40D.
    >>>>
    >>>> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >>>>crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >>>>without hugging the floor.
    >>>>
    >>>> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    >>> fairly
    >>> immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
    >>> photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have
    >>> never
    >>> been
    >>> nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice
    >>> as if
    >>> they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot
    >>> those
    >>> trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are
    >>> just
    >>> insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much
    >>> money. Not
    >>> being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is
    >>> exactly why
    >>> I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to
    >>> digital.
    >>> For
    >>> all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to
    >>> the
    >>> craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never
    >>> know of
    >>> their benefits.
    >>>
    >>> True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be
    >>> had
    >>> in
    >>> many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S
    >>> cameras. But
    >>> if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for
    >>> accurate
    >>> composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for
    >>> difficult
    >>> shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in
    >>> extremely
    >>> dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time
    >>> before
    >>> you
    >>> even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be
    >>> displayed
    >>> on an
    >>> EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling
    >>> you
    >>> what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle
    >>> for a
    >>> camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.
    >>>
    >>> Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this
    >>> might be
    >>> important to you:
    >>>
    >>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
    >>>
    >>> An overview of all the additional features
    >>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage
    >>>
    >>> You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S
    >>> cameras
    >>> with
    >>> an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or
    >>> without
    >>> "live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK
    >>> camera can
    >>> do today.
    >>>

    >>
    >>If bullshit could fly, you´d be in orbit...

    >
    > If envy was money you'd be Bill Gates. :)
    >
    >>
    >>Yes, DO check this wonder called CHDK. What a miracle it is. A histogram?

    >
    > No, 7 different histogram options showing you real-time views of all Y-RGB
    > channels.


    Right, as helpful as a microscope for a blind man..

    >>Check, my D40 and D40x got it.

    >
    > No, you actually don't. Read above.


    Yes they do. Histogram that´s usefull.

    >> RAW? Video? No, I have a $200.- camcorder for
    >>that.

    >
    > Good, now can you select from 108 different MJPEG compression levels and
    > modes
    > with it? If you carry both your camera and camcorder are they smaller than
    > a P&S
    > camera? Both combined are also less than the cost of a P&S camera?
    >
    > Keep trying fool. :)


    And still you do nothing close to what I get with my camcorder.


    >>Motion detection? Yep, I see the police all the time with Powershots,
    >>detecting motion at airports etc.

    >
    > Wow, are you an idiot.


    Never short of words, are you? And so articulate and well spoken.


    >>With my cheap camcorder I can have motion detection and even can have the
    >>camcorder record to the computer, track the motion automatically, zoom in
    >>automatically, all computer controlled. But I guess this CHDK can do all
    >>of
    >>that too, right?

    >
    > Actually, it can! Thanks for bringing this up! But you don't even need to
    > have
    > it hooked up to a computer to do all that. A pity that you have to tether
    > yours
    > to a computer. That really limits the places you can use those features.


    There´s a new invention, dipstick, it´s called: "wireless networking"..

    >>O, you can play GAMES with it too. I bet in Playstation 2 quality with
    >>Dolby
    >>surround sound,LOL

    >
    > No, nothing that elaborate, just a couple simple games included to pass
    > the time
    > while waiting for someone like you to figure out which lens should go on
    > your
    > camera, and waiting for you to deal with the security guards while they're
    > telling you that you can't bring your piece-of-shit dSLR into that public
    > event
    > because of all the noise it makes.


    Yes, try making a picture at night with 1600 ISO. Speaking of noise...

    >>Of course it´s only Canon that has this BS.

    >
    > BS means that it's lies. The only lie here is your claim of BS. All these
    > things
    > are facts, not lies, not BS. The only BS around here is yours.


    " Me thinks the lady protests too much..."

    >>About the DSLR´s you´re right of course. Hasselblad is just being silly
    >>making $30,000.- DSLR bodies only. Canon and Nikon are crazy to think they
    >>can sell zoom lenses for 10,000.- You should tell them, that they can use
    >>Canon Point & Shit camera´s for the same quality...

    >
    > No, they're not being silly at all! They know perfectly well how to trick
    > a fool
    > out of his money. Why do you think they charge so much? Because THEY CAN!


    Right, a Mercedes, Porsche or Rolls are much worse then a Volkswagen
    Rabbit...
    Maybe you should learn how to drive first before writing all these
    assumptions.
    Never had the money for a DSLR, did you?
    All piss and vinagar about, huh?
    Even the communists aren´t that stuck up...and stupid..

    >>I don´t try to make a fool of you; you´re doing fine just on your own...

    >
    > The only reason you don't, is because you can't.
    >
    > The only fools around here are people like you who can't deal with the
    > fact that
    > an inexpensive P&S camera can do more than your dSLR and camcorder
    > combined for
    > less than 1/10th the cost.


    A throw away camera with film does a better job than any PS.
    I own a Canon A430, so I know what I´m talking about. I also owned, tried
    and tested many camera´s before buying my D40 and D40x. Just a short list:

    Panasonic FZ50
    Canon Powershot A430
    Olympus E-510
    Canon 400D (Rebel XTi)
    Pentax SLR
    Nikon D80
    Fuji 6500
    Fuji 9600

    Plus several others, like 6x6, 6x7 and 4x5 camera´s.

    I started photography 35 years ago and made professional glamour pictures
    for a few magazines.

    So what do you have and what did you do so far?
    Do you even own a DSLR? If not: how do you know all these "facts"?

    --
    "I don´t need a camera,
    I have a photographic memory..."
    Sosumi
    Sosumi, Nov 15, 2007
    #19
  20. On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:48:30 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:

    >
    >"wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:02:18 -0000, "Sosumi" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>"wilson granger" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
    >>>>>> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
    >>>>>> > either of these cameras?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
    >>>>>> > pic.....
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many
    >>>>>> people
    >>>>>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
    >>>>>on the more expensive 40D.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
    >>>>>crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
    >>>>>without hugging the floor.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
    >>>> fairly
    >>>> immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
    >>>> photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have
    >>>> never
    >>>> been
    >>>> nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice
    >>>> as if
    >>>> they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot
    >>>> those
    >>>> trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are
    >>>> just
    >>>> insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much
    >>>> money. Not
    >>>> being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is
    >>>> exactly why
    >>>> I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to
    >>>> digital.
    >>>> For
    >>>> all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to
    >>>> the
    >>>> craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never
    >>>> know of
    >>>> their benefits.
    >>>>
    >>>> True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be
    >>>> had
    >>>> in
    >>>> many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S
    >>>> cameras. But
    >>>> if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for
    >>>> accurate
    >>>> composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for
    >>>> difficult
    >>>> shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in
    >>>> extremely
    >>>> dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time
    >>>> before
    >>>> you
    >>>> even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be
    >>>> displayed
    >>>> on an
    >>>> EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling
    >>>> you
    >>>> what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle
    >>>> for a
    >>>> camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this
    >>>> might be
    >>>> important to you:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
    >>>>
    >>>> An overview of all the additional features
    >>>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage
    >>>>
    >>>> You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S
    >>>> cameras
    >>>> with
    >>>> an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or
    >>>> without
    >>>> "live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK
    >>>> camera can
    >>>> do today.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>If bullshit could fly, you´d be in orbit...

    >>
    >> If envy was money you'd be Bill Gates. :)
    >>
    >>>
    >>>Yes, DO check this wonder called CHDK. What a miracle it is. A histogram?

    >>
    >> No, 7 different histogram options showing you real-time views of all Y-RGB
    >> channels.

    >
    >Right, as helpful as a microscope for a blind man..
    >
    >>>Check, my D40 and D40x got it.

    >>
    >> No, you actually don't. Read above.

    >
    >Yes they do. Histogram that´s usefull.
    >
    >>> RAW? Video? No, I have a $200.- camcorder for
    >>>that.

    >>
    >> Good, now can you select from 108 different MJPEG compression levels and
    >> modes
    >> with it? If you carry both your camera and camcorder are they smaller than
    >> a P&S
    >> camera? Both combined are also less than the cost of a P&S camera?
    >>
    >> Keep trying fool. :)

    >
    >And still you do nothing close to what I get with my camcorder.
    >
    >
    >>>Motion detection? Yep, I see the police all the time with Powershots,
    >>>detecting motion at airports etc.

    >>
    >> Wow, are you an idiot.

    >
    >Never short of words, are you? And so articulate and well spoken.
    >
    >
    >>>With my cheap camcorder I can have motion detection and even can have the
    >>>camcorder record to the computer, track the motion automatically, zoom in
    >>>automatically, all computer controlled. But I guess this CHDK can do all
    >>>of
    >>>that too, right?

    >>
    >> Actually, it can! Thanks for bringing this up! But you don't even need to
    >> have
    >> it hooked up to a computer to do all that. A pity that you have to tether
    >> yours
    >> to a computer. That really limits the places you can use those features.

    >
    >There´s a new invention, dipstick, it´s called: "wireless networking"..
    >
    >>>O, you can play GAMES with it too. I bet in Playstation 2 quality with
    >>>Dolby
    >>>surround sound,LOL

    >>
    >> No, nothing that elaborate, just a couple simple games included to pass
    >> the time
    >> while waiting for someone like you to figure out which lens should go on
    >> your
    >> camera, and waiting for you to deal with the security guards while they're
    >> telling you that you can't bring your piece-of-shit dSLR into that public
    >> event
    >> because of all the noise it makes.

    >
    >Yes, try making a picture at night with 1600 ISO. Speaking of noise...
    >
    >>>Of course it´s only Canon that has this BS.

    >>
    >> BS means that it's lies. The only lie here is your claim of BS. All these
    >> things
    >> are facts, not lies, not BS. The only BS around here is yours.

    >
    >" Me thinks the lady protests too much..."
    >
    >>>About the DSLR´s you´re right of course. Hasselblad is just being silly
    >>>making $30,000.- DSLR bodies only. Canon and Nikon are crazy to think they
    >>>can sell zoom lenses for 10,000.- You should tell them, that they can use
    >>>Canon Point & Shit camera´s for the same quality...

    >>
    >> No, they're not being silly at all! They know perfectly well how to trick
    >> a fool
    >> out of his money. Why do you think they charge so much? Because THEY CAN!

    >
    >Right, a Mercedes, Porsche or Rolls are much worse then a Volkswagen
    >Rabbit...
    >Maybe you should learn how to drive first before writing all these
    >assumptions.
    >Never had the money for a DSLR, did you?
    >All piss and vinagar about, huh?
    >Even the communists aren´t that stuck up...and stupid..
    >
    >>>I don´t try to make a fool of you; you´re doing fine just on your own...

    >>
    >> The only reason you don't, is because you can't.
    >>
    >> The only fools around here are people like you who can't deal with the
    >> fact that
    >> an inexpensive P&S camera can do more than your dSLR and camcorder
    >> combined for
    >> less than 1/10th the cost.

    >
    >A throw away camera with film does a better job than any PS.
    >I own a Canon A430, so I know what I´m talking about. I also owned, tried
    >and tested many camera´s before buying my D40 and D40x. Just a short list:
    >
    >Panasonic FZ50
    >Canon Powershot A430
    >Olympus E-510
    >Canon 400D (Rebel XTi)
    >Pentax SLR
    >Nikon D80
    >Fuji 6500
    >Fuji 9600
    >
    >Plus several others, like 6x6, 6x7 and 4x5 camera´s.
    >
    >I started photography 35 years ago and made professional glamour pictures
    >for a few magazines.
    >
    >So what do you have and what did you do so far?
    >Do you even own a DSLR? If not: how do you know all these "facts"?


    LOL!

    As I said, if envy was money you'd be Bill Gates.

    LOL!!
    wilson granger, Nov 15, 2007
    #20
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