Nikon answer to Canon 1D Mark II? Nikon D3??

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ralph Seguin, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. Ralph Seguin

    Ralph Seguin Guest

    Ok.
    I'm waffling and would (in the unlikely event of cash becoming
    available) like to buy a Canon 1D Mark II.

    Does Nikon have something in the pipeline that is going to make me
    want to stay with Nikon?
    Nikon D3?
    Specs?
    Ballpark pricing?
    Will my current 35mm lenses fit new body?

    I'm not terribly brand loyal other than owning an expensive chunk of
    Nikon glass. Right now it seems to me that Canon has a real advantage
    in terms of speed, lens mount design and resolution as well as good
    low-noise at higher ISO settings and longer exposures (I'd like to do
    astrophotography as a 2nd use for the camera).

    I'd have to liquidate all of my Nikon gear in order to buy the Canon
    1D Mark II body and a few so so lenses (couldn't afford both the body
    and nice lenses right away).
    The other thing that kills me is that Canon glass seems to cost a bit
    more than equivalent Nikon glass.

    If I could, I'd prefer to just keep all of this nice Nikon stuff and
    go with a new Nikon if it was a 1D Mark II killer.
    Here's my request to Nikon for the D3:
    Accepts Nikon 'D' AF lenses
    10 megapixel
    10 frames per second
    super low noise (at higher ISO settings and also for long
    exposures)
    Less than $2000 (Daydreaming here. That would be nice, wouldn't it :)
    Fixes for any D70 type bugs: amplifier hot noise bloom, iTTL bugs

    Best solution: win the lottery (which I don't even play :)

    Thanks.
    -Ralph
     
    Ralph Seguin, Jun 16, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Ralph Seguin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok.
    > I'm waffling and would (in the unlikely event of cash becoming
    > available) like to buy a Canon 1D Mark II.
    >
    > Does Nikon have something in the pipeline that is going to make me
    > want to stay with Nikon?
    > Nikon D3?
    > Specs?
    > Ballpark pricing?
    > Will my current 35mm lenses fit new body?
    >
    > I'm not terribly brand loyal other than owning an expensive chunk of
    > Nikon glass. Right now it seems to me that Canon has a real advantage
    > in terms of speed, lens mount design and resolution as well as good
    > low-noise at higher ISO settings and longer exposures (I'd like to do
    > astrophotography as a 2nd use for the camera).
    >
    > I'd have to liquidate all of my Nikon gear in order to buy the Canon
    > 1D Mark II body and a few so so lenses (couldn't afford both the body
    > and nice lenses right away).
    > The other thing that kills me is that Canon glass seems to cost a bit
    > more than equivalent Nikon glass.
    >
    > If I could, I'd prefer to just keep all of this nice Nikon stuff and
    > go with a new Nikon if it was a 1D Mark II killer.
    > Here's my request to Nikon for the D3:
    > Accepts Nikon 'D' AF lenses
    > 10 megapixel
    > 10 frames per second
    > super low noise (at higher ISO settings and also for long
    > exposures)
    > Less than $2000 (Daydreaming here. That would be nice, wouldn't it :)
    > Fixes for any D70 type bugs: amplifier hot noise bloom, iTTL bugs
    >
    > Best solution: win the lottery (which I don't even play :)
    >


    Best rumors indicate that Nikon's answer to the 1D MkII will be the D2X
    (replacement for the D1X). That camera is expected to be announced within
    the next couple of months. Speculation is that it will be limited-released /
    tested at the Olympics and formally announced at Photokina. It will
    reportedly be 10-12 megapixels, 1.5X crop factor and use the exact same body
    as the D2H. Frame rates - probably 4-8 depending on what kind of sensor they
    use. The LBCAST ought to be able to muster 6 FPS. Pricing is likely to be
    against the 1D Mk II, so the D2X will probably be in that same $4500 price
    range.

    A current alternative is the D2H at $3100.

    Hmc
     
    Howard McCollister, Jun 16, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ralph Seguin

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: (Ralph Seguin)

    >Does Nikon have something in the pipeline that is going to make me
    >want to stay with Nikon?


    Sooner or later Nikon will have a comparable product. The two questions you
    need to ask are 1) how long do I wait for it? and 2) will Canon have something
    even better once Nikon catches up? Remember, the D2H barely caught up to the
    1D before Canon brought out the 1D Mark II.

    >I'm not terribly brand loyal other than owning an expensive chunk of
    >Nikon glass.


    That would probably be enough incentive for me to wait :)

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jun 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Ralph Seguin

    leo Guest

    "Ralph Seguin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok.
    > I'm waffling and would (in the unlikely event of cash becoming
    > available) like to buy a Canon 1D Mark II.
    >
    > Does Nikon have something in the pipeline that is going to make me
    > want to stay with Nikon?
    > Nikon D3?
    > Specs?
    > Ballpark pricing?
    > Will my current 35mm lenses fit new body?
    >
    > I'm not terribly brand loyal other than owning an expensive chunk of
    > Nikon glass. Right now it seems to me that Canon has a real advantage
    > in terms of speed, lens mount design and resolution as well as good
    > low-noise at higher ISO settings and longer exposures (I'd like to do
    > astrophotography as a 2nd use for the camera).
    >
    > I'd have to liquidate all of my Nikon gear in order to buy the Canon
    > 1D Mark II body and a few so so lenses (couldn't afford both the body
    > and nice lenses right away).
    > The other thing that kills me is that Canon glass seems to cost a bit
    > more than equivalent Nikon glass.
    >
    > If I could, I'd prefer to just keep all of this nice Nikon stuff and
    > go with a new Nikon if it was a 1D Mark II killer.
    > Here's my request to Nikon for the D3:
    > Accepts Nikon 'D' AF lenses
    > 10 megapixel
    > 10 frames per second
    > super low noise (at higher ISO settings and also for long
    > exposures)
    > Less than $2000 (Daydreaming here. That would be nice, wouldn't it :)
    > Fixes for any D70 type bugs: amplifier hot noise bloom, iTTL bugs
    >
    > Best solution: win the lottery (which I don't even play :)
    >
    > Thanks.
    > -Ralph



    Not likely. In terms of speed and features, no doubt Nikon will catch up but
    in terms of sensor size and resolution, it's not that good. I think Nikon is
    just starting to developing it's own silicon. This is why Nikon's stated
    it'll stick with the DX lens (1.5x crop factor) for a long haul. Um... Maybe
    Nikon'll put a Kodak full size sensor on the next camera. who knows...
     
    leo, Jun 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Ralph Seguin

    nospam Guest

    In article <_xYzc.2423$>, leo
    <> wrote:

    > This is why Nikon's stated
    > it'll stick with the DX lens (1.5x crop factor) for a long haul. Um... Maybe
    > Nikon'll put a Kodak full size sensor on the next camera. who knows...


    i keep seeing people claim nikon said they aren't doing full frame, yet
    i've never seen an official statement from them.

    can you provide a cite?
     
    nospam, Jun 16, 2004
    #5
  6. Ralph Seguin

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: nospam lid

    >i keep seeing people claim nikon said they <Nikon> aren't doing full
    > frame, yet i've never seen an official statement from them.
    >
    >can you provide a cite?


    Can't provide a link, but in the past 2 years I've seen two "official"
    statements from Nikon on this, as reported in photo magazines. First one said
    they would not make a full frame sensor since 6-8 Mpixels was enough for rough
    parity with 35 mm (for most people). This was about the time they came out
    with the wider lenses that didn't fit earlier cameras. Whether this was the
    policy of the top level execs or just a marketing guy floating a trial balloon
    isn't entirely clear.

    Apparently this didn't go over well with the pro community (good numbers of
    pros are switching to Canon, it seems) so last year Nikon announced they would
    offer two classes of sensor sizes, APS for their vast amateur market (similar
    to what they already have with incremental improvements) and full sized sensors
    for what they called the "pro" market. Maybe they were disappointed in the
    Kodak 14n and decided they have to do it themselves since the Canon 1Ds is so
    popular.

    So far they haven't announced any full frame sensor cameras, but if Canon can
    do it you'd think Nikon can do it too.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jun 16, 2004
    #6
  7. "Howard McCollister" <> wrote in message
    news:40d02249$0$79787$...

    > Best rumors indicate that Nikon's answer to the 1D MkII will be the D2X
    > (replacement for the D1X). That camera is expected to be announced within
    > the next couple of months. Speculation is that it will be limited-released

    /
    > tested at the Olympics and formally announced at Photokina. It will
    > reportedly be 10-12 megapixels, 1.5X crop factor and use the exact same

    body
    > as the D2H. Frame rates - probably 4-8 depending on what kind of sensor

    they
    > use. The LBCAST ought to be able to muster 6 FPS. Pricing is likely to be
    > against the 1D Mk II, so the D2X will probably be in that same $4500 price
    > range.
    >
    > A current alternative is the D2H at $3100.
    >
    > Hmc


    IMVAIO, that's too much of a crop factor. Who is going to buy a professional
    camera with such a high crop factor.

    And why the Olympics? Nikon still will have no equivalent to Canon's BWL's,
    so professionals won't be able to use it for sports photography.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Ralph Seguin

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Steven M. Scharf"

    >IMVAIO, that's too much of a crop factor.


    Hmm, what does IMVAIO mean? Sounds like something Sony makes :)

    >Nikon still will have no equivalent to Canon's BWL's


    And what does BWL mean? "Big White Lenses"? LOL ...

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jun 16, 2004
    #8
  9. Ralph Seguin

    Nick C Guest

    "Ralph Seguin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok.
    > I'm waffling and would (in the unlikely event of cash becoming
    > available) like to buy a Canon 1D Mark II.
    >
    > Does Nikon have something in the pipeline that is going to make me
    > want to stay with Nikon?
    > Nikon D3?
    > Specs?
    > Ballpark pricing?
    > Will my current 35mm lenses fit new body?
    >
    > I'm not terribly brand loyal other than owning an expensive chunk of
    > Nikon glass. Right now it seems to me that Canon has a real advantage
    > in terms of speed, lens mount design and resolution as well as good
    > low-noise at higher ISO settings and longer exposures (I'd like to do
    > astrophotography as a 2nd use for the camera).
    >
    > I'd have to liquidate all of my Nikon gear in order to buy the Canon
    > 1D Mark II body and a few so so lenses (couldn't afford both the body
    > and nice lenses right away).
    > The other thing that kills me is that Canon glass seems to cost a bit
    > more than equivalent Nikon glass.
    >
    > If I could, I'd prefer to just keep all of this nice Nikon stuff and
    > go with a new Nikon if it was a 1D Mark II killer.
    > Here's my request to Nikon for the D3:
    > Accepts Nikon 'D' AF lenses
    > 10 megapixel
    > 10 frames per second
    > super low noise (at higher ISO settings and also for long
    > exposures)
    > Less than $2000 (Daydreaming here. That would be nice, wouldn't it :)
    > Fixes for any D70 type bugs: amplifier hot noise bloom, iTTL bugs
    >
    > Best solution: win the lottery (which I don't even play :)
    >
    > Thanks.
    > -Ralph


    A photo hobbyist friend of mine recently sold all his Nikon equipment and
    went Canon. He bought the Canon 1D Mark II. His reasoning was the 1.3
    multiplier of the Mark II using Canon's 16-35 L mm lens satisfies his needs
    for a wide angle lens and he also bought the 28-135 IS lens. He's captivated
    by the camera's capability. Just these two lenses would give him the
    following lens versatility:

    With the Mark II:

    The 16-35 mm L lens would be 20.8-45.5 mm.
    The 28-135 mm IS lens would be 36.4- 175.5 IS mm

    He's so satisfied with the Mark II and his selection of lenses he's
    considering getting the 10D as a back-up body and utilizing the 1.6X of the
    10D to extend the range of other longer lenses he plans to buy without the
    need to spend mega-bucks for much longer range lenses. With the 10D he
    solves two potential problems, the need for a back-up body and long lens
    needs. I've handled his Mark II and must confess, it is one hell-of-an
    impressive tool and I have more than a tinge of envy. I particularly like
    the concept of Canon's DiG!C Imaging Engine processor which has been
    upgraded from the one introduced in the 10D; which in itself is a very good
    camera.

    Another Pro friend who occasionally doubles in sales at the local camera
    store is also considering selling off his Nikon equipment and getting the
    Mark II, for starters. He recently added the Nikon D2h to his inventory and
    apparently he's not happy with it. I don't know why since he's not inclined
    to say much about it other than shrug his shoulders when asked about it.

    I too am deeply into Nikon but I must confess, I'm big time impressed with
    the overall capability of Canon's 1D Mark II. Having one would more than
    satisfy my camera desires for many years, regardless of what Nikon may
    market in the future. I'm sorry now my friend loaned me his Mark II 'cause
    it definitely has impressed me.

    Normally, I'm still with film for much of my photo interests and only
    occasionly use my digicams. But I think having the Canon 1D Mark II could
    turn things around for me. I'm on a list to rent one for a month and if I
    remain impressed, I just might make the jump myself.

    nick
     
    Nick C, Jun 16, 2004
    #9
  10. "Nick C" <> wrote in message
    news:re1Ac.44690$eu.31666@attbi_s02...
    >


    >
    > Normally, I'm still with film for much of my photo interests and only
    > occasionly use my digicams. But I think having the Canon 1D Mark II could
    > turn things around for me. I'm on a list to rent one for a month and if I
    > remain impressed, I just might make the jump myself.
    >


    It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the same
    degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.

    HMc
     
    Howard McCollister, Jun 16, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <40d0a1d9$0$52466$>,
    says...
    > It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the same
    > degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.


    You mean it'll pull even? The D70 is a nice camera, but it isn't really
    ahead of the Rebel in terms of image quality.

    Nikon is losing the pro digital race fairly quickly. They're a good 6
    to 12 months behind on research and development. I'm sure when Nikon
    does have their "Mk II Killer" ready, Canon will trump them again within
    6 months, just like they did when Nikon tried stumping the 1D. I'm
    fairly certain Canon keeps an ace in the hole at all times.

    Whatever brand you use, this heavy competition only serves to drive
    digital ahead faster and better. Canon and Nikon both are making better
    dSLRs than most people could have imagined two years ago. We'll just
    have to wait and see what the next two years bring.
     
    Brian C. Baird, Jun 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Ralph Seguin

    Nick C Guest

    "Howard McCollister" <> wrote in message
    news:40d0a1d9$0$52466$...
    >
    > "Nick C" <> wrote in message
    > news:re1Ac.44690$eu.31666@attbi_s02...
    > >

    >
    > >
    > > Normally, I'm still with film for much of my photo interests and only
    > > occasionly use my digicams. But I think having the Canon 1D Mark II

    could
    > > turn things around for me. I'm on a list to rent one for a month and if

    I
    > > remain impressed, I just might make the jump myself.
    > >

    >
    > It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the

    same
    > degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.
    >
    > HMc
    >
    >
    >


    The D70 is indeed a good camera and I suppose industry will competitively
    leap-frog equipment. But I must say, I was impressed with the Canon 1D Mark
    II. It can produce quality/noiseless images that far exceed what I have seen
    of present digital equipment representing 35mm film. *If* I did make the
    jump to Cannon's 1D Mark II, I strongly doubt that the camera would not be
    capable of fulfilling needs/wants far into the future. Better equipment from
    Nikon and Canon may no doubt be forthcoming but that would not necessarily
    mean the Mark II would be rendered functionally obsolete nor degrade its
    inherent design image processing capability.

    I've handled Nikon's D1x and Canon's 1Ds too and was also impressed with
    their imaging capability (I thought Canon's 1Ds to be the better camera) but
    If I were to choose which one I would like to have, it would be Canon's 1D
    Mark II, unquestionably. Although I have Nikon's high end fast lenses, the
    thought of already having them would be an influence upon my decision not to
    make the change. Particularly since I've already been considering replacing
    some of my lenses with Nikon's VR lenses as they become available. No, the
    conversion would not bother me at all, if that's what I decide to do.

    nick
     
    Nick C, Jun 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Ralph Seguin

    Skip M Guest

    "Howard McCollister" <> wrote in message
    news:40d0a1d9$0$52466$...
    >
    > "Nick C" <> wrote in message
    > news:re1Ac.44690$eu.31666@attbi_s02...
    > >

    >
    > >
    > > Normally, I'm still with film for much of my photo interests and only
    > > occasionly use my digicams. But I think having the Canon 1D Mark II

    could
    > > turn things around for me. I'm on a list to rent one for a month and if

    I
    > > remain impressed, I just might make the jump myself.
    > >

    >
    > It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the

    same
    > degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.
    >
    > HMc
    >
    >
    >

    Remember, the D1X didn't pull that far ahead of the 1D. Not saying they
    can't or won't, but how much more camera than the 1D mkII is necessary and
    at what cost?

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Jun 16, 2004
    #13
  14. Ralph Seguin

    Bill Hilton Guest

    Bill Hilton, Jun 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Ralph Seguin

    Leonard Guest

    Brian C. Baird wrote:
    > In article <40d0a1d9$0$52466$>,
    > says...
    >
    >>It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the same
    >>degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.

    >
    >
    > You mean it'll pull even? The D70 is a nice camera, but it isn't really
    > ahead of the Rebel in terms of image quality.


    In terms of image quality, agreed. But the D70 has some rather nice
    features that the 300D lacks, eg:
    Flash output compensation
    2nd curtain flash sync
    Manual selection of single-shot vs continuous focus
    AF assist light
    Faster continuous shooting

    I doubt that the 300D would be available for less than 700 sheets in
    the UK if it were not for the existence of the D70.

    > Nikon is losing the pro digital race fairly quickly. They're a good 6
    > to 12 months behind on research and development. I'm sure when Nikon
    > does have their "Mk II Killer" ready, Canon will trump them again within
    > 6 months, just like they did when Nikon tried stumping the 1D. I'm
    > fairly certain Canon keeps an ace in the hole at all times.


    It seems to me that in both the pro and amateur ranges Nikon and
    Canon are leapfrogging each other's products. Sometimes Nikon has
    the edge and sometimes Canon. You may argue that Canon is leading
    for more of the time than Nikon, but I don't think Nikon has a problem
    yet.

    Prediction: Nikon to bring out a D2H replacement in the next three
    months. I assume that they will stick with the DX sensor size, so
    it'll either be a 6MP that loses out on resolution, or an 8MP that
    loses out on noise. But it will outperform that MkII in framing rate.
    Alternatives - (1) They weaken the commitment to DX by going to a
    1.3x sensor that would allow them to compete in image quality with
    the MkII. (2) Full-frame. It would be a fantastic coup if Nikon
    could leapfrog the MkII and the 1Ds with a single camera. I'd be
    amazed if this happened soon, but it's what I'm hoping for.

    > Whatever brand you use, this heavy competition only serves to drive
    > digital ahead faster and better. Canon and Nikon both are making better
    > dSLRs than most people could have imagined two years ago. We'll just
    > have to wait and see what the next two years bring.


    Oh yeah. The dSLR market still seems to be in a phase where almost
    every new release is a big deal. As a Canon user I'm looking at the
    gulf in price between the 300D and the 10D and thinking about what
    happened to the D60 - replaced after a year by a better, cheaper
    version. An improved 10D for 900UKP could leave me without further
    need for 35mm film.

    - Len
     
    Leonard, Jun 17, 2004
    #15
  16. Ralph Seguin

    leo Guest

    "Leonard" <> wrote in message
    news:Lv5Ac.492$...
    > Brian C. Baird wrote:
    > > In article <40d0a1d9$0$52466$>,
    > > says...
    > >
    > >>It's pretty likely that the Nikon D2X will eclipse the 1D Mk II to the

    same
    > >>degree or greater that the D70 has eclipsed the 300D.

    > >
    > >
    > > You mean it'll pull even? The D70 is a nice camera, but it isn't really
    > > ahead of the Rebel in terms of image quality.

    >
    > In terms of image quality, agreed. But the D70 has some rather nice
    > features that the 300D lacks, eg:
    > Flash output compensation
    > 2nd curtain flash sync
    > Manual selection of single-shot vs continuous focus
    > AF assist light
    > Faster continuous shooting
    >
    > I doubt that the 300D would be available for less than 700 sheets in
    > the UK if it were not for the existence of the D70.
    >
    > > Nikon is losing the pro digital race fairly quickly. They're a good 6
    > > to 12 months behind on research and development. I'm sure when Nikon
    > > does have their "Mk II Killer" ready, Canon will trump them again within
    > > 6 months, just like they did when Nikon tried stumping the 1D. I'm
    > > fairly certain Canon keeps an ace in the hole at all times.

    >
    > It seems to me that in both the pro and amateur ranges Nikon and
    > Canon are leapfrogging each other's products. Sometimes Nikon has
    > the edge and sometimes Canon. You may argue that Canon is leading
    > for more of the time than Nikon, but I don't think Nikon has a problem
    > yet.
    >
    > Prediction: Nikon to bring out a D2H replacement in the next three
    > months. I assume that they will stick with the DX sensor size, so
    > it'll either be a 6MP that loses out on resolution, or an 8MP that
    > loses out on noise. But it will outperform that MkII in framing rate.
    > Alternatives - (1) They weaken the commitment to DX by going to a
    > 1.3x sensor that would allow them to compete in image quality with
    > the MkII. (2) Full-frame. It would be a fantastic coup if Nikon
    > could leapfrog the MkII and the 1Ds with a single camera. I'd be
    > amazed if this happened soon, but it's what I'm hoping for.
    >
    > > Whatever brand you use, this heavy competition only serves to drive
    > > digital ahead faster and better. Canon and Nikon both are making better
    > > dSLRs than most people could have imagined two years ago. We'll just
    > > have to wait and see what the next two years bring.

    >
    > Oh yeah. The dSLR market still seems to be in a phase where almost
    > every new release is a big deal. As a Canon user I'm looking at the
    > gulf in price between the 300D and the 10D and thinking about what
    > happened to the D60 - replaced after a year by a better, cheaper
    > version. An improved 10D for 900UKP could leave me without further
    > need for 35mm film.
    >
    > - Len


    It's not worthwhile to compare D70 to 300D. 300D was designed to not
    cannibalize the sale of 10D at the time when dSLR with kit lens under US$1K
    was unheard of. It's a trivial matter for Canon to release a beef up entry
    level camera. I chose Canon because I believe they have an edge in digital
    camera sensor development. And Canon has more image stabilizer lens,
    including consumer grades. I spent a lot more money on lens than the camera
    body. Although the current entry level dSLR are very, very good, I think
    Canon will increase the pixel count and reduce the cropping factor sooner
    than other vendors. I bought the 300D over 10D as my first SLR camera and
    won't feel too bad about losing too much money when the time to upgrade is
    due. Nevertheless, back to the original question. If there were a
    breakthrough in Nikon's D2X sensor, I'd be damned! No doubt Nikon will come
    out with a full frame camera but won't be in near future...
     
    leo, Jun 17, 2004
    #16
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