nightshot?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by JamesDorset, Dec 27, 2006.

  1. JamesDorset

    JamesDorset Guest

    Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and video-cameras.
    They advertise zero lux capability.

    Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    infrared filter in front of the lens? Since the range of the IR LEDs is
    very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft and
    visible satellites at night?

    For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front of
    the lens? What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type of
    filming?

    I really appreciate any info.....
    JamesDorset, Dec 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. ? "JamesDorset" <> ?????? ??? ??????
    news:p...
    > Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and video-cameras.
    > They advertise zero lux capability.
    >
    > Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    > infrared filter in front of the lens?

    In fact, they *remove* the infrared filter from the lens, I think, so that
    infrared radiation can reach the sensor.(Almost) all sony camcorders have
    this feature, although you don't have really colour, but something with a
    greenish cast.My sony camcorder (dcr hc 32e) has something called "slow
    colour shutter" which is nightshot without infrared light.Then, of course,
    you would need a tripod, and some remote control of the camera (which is
    included).So, if you already have the camcorder, all you need is a tripod..
    >Since the range of the IR LEDs is
    > very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft and
    > visible satellites at night?
    >
    > For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    > videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front of
    > the lens? What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type of
    > filming?
    >

    Hope this helps,


    --
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
    major in electrical engineering
    mechanized infantry reservist
    dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Dec 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. "JamesDorset" <> wrote in message news:p...

    > Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and video-cameras.
    > They advertise zero lux capability.
    >
    > Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    > infrared filter in front of the lens?


    No - they just move aside the IR blocking filter in front of
    the sensor.

    > Since the range of the IR LEDs is
    > very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft and
    > visible satellites at night?


    No. While the effective usable sensitivity of the sensor likely
    increases, the light levels (including IR) are too low to make
    much difference. And the cameras cannot record "heat", at
    least with short exposures...

    > For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    > videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front of
    > the lens?


    No. It would result in greatly reduced sensitivity for the system.

    > What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type of
    > filming?


    Probably something far more specialized and expensive than
    anything you are considering, if it is possible to do what you
    want at all...
    --
    David Ruether


    http://www.ferrario.com/ruether
    David Ruether, Dec 27, 2006
    #3
  4. JamesDorset wrote:

    > Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and video-cameras.
    > They advertise zero lux capability.
    >
    > Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    > infrared filter in front of the lens? Since the range of the IR LEDs is
    > very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft and
    > visible satellites at night?
    >
    > For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    > videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front of
    > the lens? What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type of
    > filming?
    >
    > I really appreciate any info.....


    Low light sensitivity is directly related to the size of the
    pixels. Here is a demonstration of the effects:

    Digital Cameras: Does Pixel Size Matter?
    Part 2: Example Images using Different Pixel Sizes
    http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/does.pixel.size.matter2

    Roger
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 27, 2006
    #4
  5. JamesDorset

    JamesDorset Guest

    On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:13:05 -0500, David Ruether wrote:


    >
    > Probably something far more specialized and expensive than
    > anything you are considering, if it is possible to do what you
    > want at all...




    I was hoping to stay less than one thousand USD. I wanted something that
    would also be suitable for aircraft shots during the day - hi
    magnification and IS.

    I've been looking at a range -- from the Sony SR1 to the SR100.....
    JamesDorset, Dec 27, 2006
    #5
  6. JamesDorset

    Mike Fields Guest

    "JamesDorset" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and
    > video-cameras.
    > They advertise zero lux capability.
    >
    > Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    > infrared filter in front of the lens? Since the range of the IR LEDs
    > is
    > very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft
    > and
    > visible satellites at night?
    >
    > For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    > videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front
    > of
    > the lens? What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type
    > of
    > filming?
    >
    > I really appreciate any info.....
    >


    Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -
    especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras
    will see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort
    since your IR source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally,
    I would rather not have them considering me a possible threat !!

    mikey
    Mike Fields, Dec 28, 2006
    #6
  7. JamesDorset

    JamesDorset Guest

    On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:15:58 -0800, Mike Fields wrote:


    >
    > Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -
    > especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras will
    > see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort since your IR
    > source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally, I would rather not
    > have them considering me a possible threat !!
    >
    > mikey





    I agree wholeheartedly.

    But there's no real worry about the IR LED in one of these nightshots.
    The power is so very low that I doubt any of them has a range greater than
    20 feet. If a helicopter is that low, I submit you've got bigger problems
    (a la Vic Morrow)!
    JamesDorset, Dec 28, 2006
    #7
  8. JamesDorset

    Mike Fields Guest

    "JamesDorset" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:15:58 -0800, Mike Fields wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -
    >> especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras will
    >> see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort since your
    >> IR
    >> source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally, I would rather
    >> not
    >> have them considering me a possible threat !!
    >>
    >> mikey

    >
    > I agree wholeheartedly.
    >
    > But there's no real worry about the IR LED in one of these nightshots.
    > The power is so very low that I doubt any of them has a range greater
    > than
    > 20 feet. If a helicopter is that low, I submit you've got bigger
    > problems
    > (a la Vic Morrow)!


    Not exactly what I meant. True, there is no danger from the IR LED
    in the camera, HOWEVER, if the police perceive that someone may
    be targeting them, (since the IR will show up like a bright light
    if pointed at them on their night-vision) that is the problem (and
    there have been enough cases of that to justify their fears).

    mikey
    Mike Fields, Dec 28, 2006
    #8
  9. Mike Fields wrote:
    >
    > "JamesDorset" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >
    >> On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:15:58 -0800, Mike Fields wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -
    >>> especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras will
    >>> see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort since your IR
    >>> source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally, I would rather not
    >>> have them considering me a possible threat !!
    >>>
    >>> mikey

    >>
    >>
    >> I agree wholeheartedly.
    >>
    >> But there's no real worry about the IR LED in one of these nightshots.
    >> The power is so very low that I doubt any of them has a range greater
    >> than
    >> 20 feet. If a helicopter is that low, I submit you've got bigger
    >> problems
    >> (a la Vic Morrow)!

    >
    >
    > Not exactly what I meant. True, there is no danger from the IR LED
    > in the camera, HOWEVER, if the police perceive that someone may
    > be targeting them, (since the IR will show up like a bright light
    > if pointed at them on their night-vision) that is the problem (and
    > there have been enough cases of that to justify their fears).
    >
    > mikey
    >

    A standard incandescent bulb, including a flashlight puts out
    a lot of infrared light, in fact more infrared than visible.
    So IR LEDs are small IR light sources in the scheme of things.

    Roger
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 28, 2006
    #9
  10. JamesDorset

    Scott W Guest

    Mike Fields wrote:
    > Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -
    > especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras
    > will see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort
    > since your IR source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally,
    > I would rather not have them considering me a possible threat !!


    The IR camera on police helicopters are mostly thermal, the IR an LED
    puts out is much shorter in wavelength.

    Scott
    Scott W, Dec 28, 2006
    #10
  11. Scott W wrote:

    > Mike Fields wrote:
    > > Be careful pointing anything that is an IR source at an aircraft -

    >
    >>especially things like police helicopters where their IR cameras
    >>will see yours. They may perceive you as a threat of some sort
    >>since your IR source will be obvious on their cameras. Personally,
    >>I would rather not have them considering me a possible threat !!

    >
    > The IR camera on police helicopters are mostly thermal, the IR an LED
    > puts out is much shorter in wavelength.
    >
    > Scott


    That's a good point. Thermal infrared cameras will work
    predominantly in the 8 to 12 micron range. Visible light
    is about .4 to .7 micron. IR LEDs put out light near
    1 micron. Incandescent bulbs peak output between 1 and 2
    microns. (By the way, for those interested, the reason
    why fluorescent lights are so efficient is that most
    of their energy goes into the visible band, whereas with
    incandescent bulbs put out most of their energy in the
    near-infrared.) (We need some infrared here: another snow
    storm is starting to bury Denver again.)

    Roger
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 28, 2006
    #11
  12. In article <>,
    JamesDorset <> wrote:

    > Sony has a "nightshot" feature on some of their cameras and video-cameras.
    > They advertise zero lux capability.
    >
    > Besides turning on one or more infrared LEDs, do these cameras put an
    > infrared filter in front of the lens? Since the range of the IR LEDs is
    > very limited, would "nightshot" give you an edge on recording aircraft and
    > visible satellites at night?
    >
    > For shooting aircraft and visible satellites at night, could a Canon
    > videocam simulate nightshot mode by putting an infrared lens in front of
    > the lens? What would be the best video camera/lens combo for this type of
    > filming?
    >
    > I really appreciate any info.....
    >


    The IR LEDs are just a hair beyond the red color; near IR. Some IR LEDs
    are can be seen in total darkness as a colorless light. Some IR LEDs
    and lasers look red but that's often actual red light from accidental or
    intentional impurities.

    Whether or not the camera's IR sensitivity is deep enough for astronomy
    is something you'd have to test. I doubt it. IR sensitivity is usually
    undesirable because it alters the image in ways that a natural eye does
    not see. The Oly C2000Z tended to produce cyan halos with dimmed
    incandescent lighting. It ruined many of my photos.
    Kevin McMurtrie, Dec 29, 2006
    #12
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