Next (the other next) Gen "DVD" storage

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alan Browne, May 27, 2005.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Alan Browne, May 27, 2005
    #1
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  2. Alan Browne

    Gaderian Guest

    Gaderian, May 27, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:10:31 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan Browne
    <> in <d779og$khu$>
    wrote:

    >
    >http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/27/Nanoscale_DVD/
    >
    >Heading towards the Tera-byte...


    An interesting notion. It would require extensive processing and so
    would be slow. (Yes, with faster processors it would be faster, but
    still slower than less complex systems.) I would not expect to see
    this on the market particularly soon, particularly from a company with
    no record of innovation.


    --
    Matt Silberstein

    All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
    a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
    there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
    end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
    or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
    Matt Silberstein, May 27, 2005
    #3
  4. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Matt Silberstein wrote:

    > On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:10:31 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan
    > Browne <> in
    > <d779og$khu$> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/27/Nanoscale_DVD/
    >>
    >> Heading towards the Tera-byte...

    >
    >
    > An interesting notion. It would require extensive processing and so
    > would be slow. (Yes, with faster processors it would be faster, but
    > still slower than less complex systems.) I would not expect to see
    > this on the market particularly soon, particularly from a company
    > with no record of innovation.


    eh? The zip drive system was, at the time quite innovative. They lost
    that, and this is their leapfrog (if it comes to fruition, of course).

    By the time this reaches the market (if), then processing will be
    faster, memory will be larger, video requirements will be greater, etc. etc.

    10 years ago, proposing something like DVD was considered a monumental
    amount of storage. Today, it doesn't cover a few weeks worth of RAW
    shooting.

    Everything just keeps going and going (faster and more).

    Cheers,
    Alan.


    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
    Alan Browne, May 27, 2005
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Scott W Guest

    It would be great, if it works. I had to laugh at the idea that 800 GB
    was more storage then normal people would need. I have 490 GB of hard
    drive connected to my computer, they are not currently all full, but to
    backup that amount of data would take over 100 DVDs.

    For years now removable storage has not been keeping up with hard
    drives. On my first computer, that had hard drive, I had 20 MB of hard
    drive space, I could back this up with 17 5 1/4 floppys. Pretty soon
    the hard drives were up to 500 MB and we could no longer backup the
    whole drive with floppy, but then came CDs and life was good, for a
    while. When hard drives started getting to the 20 GB range even CDs
    were getting to be small for doing backups, then came DVDs, but 250 GB
    drives where right behind them.

    Blue Ray will help but we are going to be looking at 1000 GB hard
    drives soon so even Blue Ray won't be enough.

    Scott
    Scott W, May 27, 2005
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Cheesehead Guest

    For may of us, our first hard drive was 5 or 10 meg.
    No enough for a single raw image today.
    And 1 gig of camera storage is roughly the same as 4 rolls of 135/24
    film.
    The changes are amazing.

    Collin
    Cheesehead, May 27, 2005
    #6
  7. "Scott W" <> writes:

    > It would be great, if it works. I had to laugh at the idea that 800 GB
    > was more storage then normal people would need. I have 490 GB of hard
    > drive connected to my computer, they are not currently all full, but to
    > backup that amount of data would take over 100 DVDs.
    >
    > For years now removable storage has not been keeping up with hard
    > drives.



    Oh, yes, it has, but not in the price range we would like to have. There
    are LTO tapes with 100GB, 200GB or 400GB _uncompressed_ (usually advertised
    as 200GB/400GB/800GB tapes) storage. There are SDLT with similar
    capacity. But the prices assume that you are at least a small business:
    e.g. 4-5k for 10 LTO2 autoloader.

    Or you can go with DLT drives with (up to) 160GB comporessed storage for
    2-3K -- again an autoloader.

    They both are SCSI devices. I am sure there are some IDE based backup
    technologies as well.

    Expensive? Maybe. How important is your data to you?

    Bye, Dragan

    --
    Dragan Cvetkovic,

    To be or not to be is true. G. Boole No it isn't. L. E. J. Brouwer

    !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!
    Dragan Cvetkovic, May 27, 2005
    #7
  8. On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:32:18 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan Browne
    <> in <d77i2b$kg6$>
    wrote:

    >Matt Silberstein wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:10:31 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan
    >> Browne <> in
    >> <d779og$khu$> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/27/Nanoscale_DVD/
    >>>
    >>> Heading towards the Tera-byte...

    >>
    >>
    >> An interesting notion. It would require extensive processing and so
    >> would be slow. (Yes, with faster processors it would be faster, but
    >> still slower than less complex systems.) I would not expect to see
    >> this on the market particularly soon, particularly from a company
    >> with no record of innovation.

    >
    >eh? The zip drive system was, at the time quite innovative. They lost
    >that, and this is their leapfrog (if it comes to fruition, of course).


    Let me re-state then, a company with a poor record of innovation. They
    came up with a single poor product and done nothing since.

    >By the time this reaches the market (if), then processing will be
    >faster, memory will be larger, video requirements will be greater, etc. etc.


    A point I made. But it will still require significant processing:

    "The angles would be detected by analyzing light after it had bounced
    off several ridges - calculating which combination of slopes would
    have produced the result."

    That looks like a non-trivial problem.

    >10 years ago, proposing something like DVD was considered a monumental
    >amount of storage. Today, it doesn't cover a few weeks worth of RAW
    >shooting.


    I agree that 1T storage will make sense at some point. The question is
    how.

    >Everything just keeps going and going (faster and more).


    Which does not mean that all technologies are a good idea.

    --
    Matt Silberstein

    All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
    a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
    there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
    end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
    or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
    Matt Silberstein, May 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Alan Browne

    Frank ess Guest

    Matt Silberstein wrote:
    > On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:32:18 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan
    > Browne
    > <> in
    > <d77i2b$kg6$>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Matt Silberstein wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 27 May 2005 10:10:31 -0400, in rec.photo.digital , Alan
    >>> Browne <> in
    >>> <d779og$khu$> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/05/27/Nanoscale_DVD/
    >>>>
    >>>> Heading towards the Tera-byte...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> An interesting notion. It would require extensive processing and
    >>> so
    >>> would be slow. (Yes, with faster processors it would be faster,
    >>> but
    >>> still slower than less complex systems.) I would not expect to see
    >>> this on the market particularly soon, particularly from a company
    >>> with no record of innovation.

    >>
    >> eh? The zip drive system was, at the time quite innovative. They
    >> lost that, and this is their leapfrog (if it comes to fruition, of
    >> course).

    >
    > Let me re-state then, a company with a poor record of innovation.
    > They
    > came up with a single poor product and done nothing since.
    >


    <snip>

    My wife has a polo shirt that proclaims proudly that the wearer was a
    member of the uh, uh, I forget what Iomega product it was, but it was
    well after the Zip things.

    >
    > Which does not mean that all technologies are a good idea.


    Ya got that right, Pilgrim.

    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, May 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Alan Browne

    Alan Brownbe Guest

    Matt Silberstein wrote:

    >>By the time this reaches the market (if), then processing will be
    >>faster, memory will be larger, video requirements will be greater, etc. etc.

    >
    >
    > A point I made. But it will still require significant processing:
    >
    > "The angles would be detected by analyzing light after it had bounced
    > off several ridges - calculating which combination of slopes would
    > have produced the result."
    >
    > That looks like a non-trivial problem.


    I do agree...

    But, quadrature phase (QPSK) modems would have been considered a
    non-trivial problem 25 years ago. They're already well behind us. Some
    military radios have had dramatic increases in effective bandwidth
    through complex modulation schemes... and so on.

    It is non-trivial to do thses things at first; once they're done, they
    become standard very quickly.


    >>Everything just keeps going and going (faster and more).

    >
    >
    > Which does not mean that all technologies are a good idea.



    The marketplace arbitrates that. Cruelly.

    (Whether the marketplace rewards silliness is another matter. People
    are silly and buy silly things).

    Cheers,
    Alan.
    Alan Brownbe, May 27, 2005
    #10
  11. <snip>
    > (Whether the marketplace rewards silliness is another matter. People are
    > silly and buy silly things).
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan.


    Like Sigma SLRs..?
    Craig Marston, May 27, 2005
    #11
  12. The one thing I have a problem with is that much data on one disk, knowing
    the reliability of media with a far less granular storage method.

    As more and more data is stored on disk, the medium needs to be more and
    more accurate.


    Imagine after 10 years going to find a years worth of photos on your disk
    and it being unreadable..


    $ for $, I think you would still be better of with the linear mag tape or HD
    storage with one of these as a secondary backup.


    I read an article not that long ago about a guy from a computer magazine
    that burnt a stack of cd's about 4 years ago. He burnt them and then put
    them in the dark of a cupboard in the office and then 4 years later he got
    them out and checked how they fared.

    40% of the disks were unreadable.....


    I think the same is true of compactflash cards. I used 512mb cards to spread
    the risk. Considering the alternative with 35mm was a change of roll every
    36 exposures to change a card every 145 exposures is hardly an inconvenience
    and reduces the possibility of loss to just 145 pics and not say 600 with a
    1Gb card.
    Steve Franklin, May 28, 2005
    #12
  13. Alan Browne

    Colin D Guest

    Steve Franklin wrote:
    >
    > I read an article not that long ago about a guy from a computer magazine
    > that burnt a stack of cd's about 4 years ago. He burnt them and then put
    > them in the dark of a cupboard in the office and then 4 years later he got
    > them out and checked how they fared.
    >
    > 40% of the disks were unreadable.....
    >


    One swallow does not a summer make. We don't know how good his burner
    was; the quality of the media used; how good was the reader he used to
    evaluate the disks (did he try more than one reader?); we don't even
    know if he verified them at the time of writing.

    I use a reputable CD/DVD burner, and phthalocynanine CD's. Some of my
    disks are years old, and I haven't found a duff one yet. The DVD's are
    too new so far to form any idea of their life.

    Colin
    Colin D, May 28, 2005
    #13
  14. Alan Browne

    Iain Laskey Guest

    In article <>,
    (Scott W) wrote:

    > Blue Ray will help but we are going to be looking at 1000 GB hard
    > drives soon so even Blue Ray won't be enough.

    IOmega already do a 35Gb cartridge based backup device.

    Iain
    Iain Laskey, May 31, 2005
    #14
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