Newsweek Story just that a Story

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mark Test, May 14, 2005.

  1. Mark Test

    Mark Test Guest

    From the World News:

    "The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had "in
    at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .

    The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)

    Look who "runs" with the story:

    "Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast by
    television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it was
    quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War on
    Terror was against Muslims."

    This blood is on Newsweek's hands:

    "The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    agencies' offices. "

    It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to publish a
    story that is simply an
    allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever happened
    to
    reporting the facts and the truth?

    If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.

    Mark
    Mark Test, May 14, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Mark Test

    Doug Robbins Guest

    WTF does this have to do with digital photography?


    "Mark Test" <> wrote in message
    news:YHqhe.1267$...
    > From the World News:
    >
    > "The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    > American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    > effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    > they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had
    > "in
    > at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .
    >
    > The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)
    >
    > Look who "runs" with the story:
    >
    > "Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast
    > by
    > television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it
    > was
    > quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    > conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War
    > on
    > Terror was against Muslims."
    >
    > This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >
    > "The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    > clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    > third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    > Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    > agencies' offices. "
    >
    > It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to publish a
    > story that is simply an
    > allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever happened
    > to
    > reporting the facts and the truth?
    >
    > If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >
    Doug Robbins, May 14, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mark Test

    Vernie Guest

    On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:38:00 GMT, "Mark Test" <>
    wrote:

    >From the World News:
    >
    >"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    >American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    >effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    >they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had "in
    >at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .
    >
    >The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)
    >
    >Look who "runs" with the story:
    >
    >"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast by
    >television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it was
    >quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    >conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War on
    >Terror was against Muslims."
    >
    >This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >
    >"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    >clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    >third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    >Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    >agencies' offices. "
    >
    >It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to publish a
    >story that is simply an
    >allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever happened
    >to
    >reporting the facts and the truth?
    >
    >If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.
    >
    >Mark
    >

    The media has been that way for years, positively the bottom of the
    barrel and absolutely dangerous because it's fighting for it's very
    existence. As it changes, so does crime, hell of an education in mass
    psychology.

    An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    theater
    Vernie, May 15, 2005
    #3
  4. Mark Test

    Vernie Guest

    On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:28:56 GMT, Vernie <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:38:00 GMT, "Mark Test" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>From the World News:
    >>
    >>"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    >>American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    >>effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    >>they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had "in
    >>at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .
    >>
    >>The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)
    >>
    >>Look who "runs" with the story:
    >>
    >>"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast by
    >>television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it was
    >>quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    >>conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War on
    >>Terror was against Muslims."
    >>
    >>This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >>
    >>"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    >>clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    >>third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    >>Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    >>agencies' offices. "
    >>
    >>It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to publish a
    >>story that is simply an
    >>allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever happened
    >>to
    >>reporting the facts and the truth?
    >>
    >>If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.
    >>
    >>Mark
    >>

    >The media has been that way for years, positively the bottom of the
    >barrel and absolutely dangerous because it's fighting for it's very
    >existence. As it changes, so does crime, hell of an education in mass
    >psychology.
    >
    >An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    >theater
    >

    Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    It's almost perfect
    Vernie, May 15, 2005
    #4
  5. Mark Test

    Vernie Guest

    On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:39:00 GMT, Vernie <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:28:56 GMT, Vernie <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:38:00 GMT, "Mark Test" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>From the World News:
    >>>
    >>>"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    >>>American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    >>>effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    >>>they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had "in
    >>>at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .
    >>>
    >>>The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)
    >>>
    >>>Look who "runs" with the story:
    >>>
    >>>"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast by
    >>>television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it was
    >>>quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    >>>conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War on
    >>>Terror was against Muslims."
    >>>
    >>>This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >>>
    >>>"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    >>>clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    >>>third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    >>>Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    >>>agencies' offices. "
    >>>
    >>>It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to publish a
    >>>story that is simply an
    >>>allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever happened
    >>>to
    >>>reporting the facts and the truth?
    >>>
    >>>If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.
    >>>
    >>>Mark
    >>>

    >>The media has been that way for years, positively the bottom of the
    >>barrel and absolutely dangerous because it's fighting for it's very
    >>existence. As it changes, so does crime, hell of an education in mass
    >>psychology.
    >>
    >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    >>theater
    >>

    >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    >It's almost perfect
    >

    Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child (or
    at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    kind of spin with his death camps.

    Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the nazi's.
    It's surprising the similarities both share.
    Vernie, May 15, 2005
    #5
  6. In article <>, Vernie
    <> wrote:

    > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child (or
    > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    > kind of spin with his death camps.
    >
    > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the nazi's.
    > It's surprising the similarities both share.


    I have always contended that the political spectrum is not a straight
    line, but a Moebius strip, where the extremes meet. It's amusing, for
    example, that the "right" in Russia is the Communists.

    Not absolutely relevant, but an excellent read with insights into the
    Nazi "biological" model and how healers were perverted: Robert Jay
    Lifton's _The Nazi Doctors_.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 15, 2005
    #6
  7. "Mark Test" <> wrote in message
    news:YHqhe.1267$...
    > From the World News:
    >
    > "The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    > American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    > effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    > they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had

    "in
    > at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .


    That would be suspect to start with. I have 3 or 4 Bibles, even though I am
    agnostic, and I'd have a tough time flushing any of them down a toilet.

    > The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)


    I suspect that how hard-core Muslims view desecration of the Quran is highly
    at odds with how most Christians view the physical Bible. Most of mine are
    on the floor someplace. They are just books.

    > Look who "runs" with the story:
    >
    > "Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast

    by
    > television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it

    was
    > quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    > conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War

    on
    > Terror was against Muslims."
    >
    > This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >
    > "The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    > clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    > third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    > Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    > agencies' offices. "

    [ SNIP ]

    Just tells you what kind of irrational people we are dealing with. Burning
    down aid agencies' offices? Jesus, that's a useful demonstration. All over a
    f**king chunk of paper.

    AHS
    Arved Sandstrom, May 15, 2005
    #7
  8. Mark Test

    Charlie Self Guest

    Vernie wrote:
    > On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:39:00 GMT, Vernie <> wrote:
    >
    > >On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:28:56 GMT, Vernie <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:38:00 GMT, "Mark Test"

    <>
    > >>wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>From the World News:
    > >>>
    > >>>"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation

    that
    > >>>American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy

    book in an
    > >>>effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report

    said that
    > >>>they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells

    and had "in
    > >>>at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .
    > >>>
    > >>>The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)
    > >>>
    > >>>Look who "runs" with the story:
    > >>>
    > >>>"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was

    re-broadcast by
    > >>>television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in

    Pakistan it was
    > >>>quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    > >>>conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that

    America's War on
    > >>>Terror was against Muslims."
    > >>>
    > >>>This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    > >>>
    > >>>"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death

    toll in
    > >>>clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen

    after a
    > >>>third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two

    injured near
    > >>>Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt

    down aid
    > >>>agencies' offices. "
    > >>>
    > >>>It should concern all of us that a US magazine editor chose to

    publish a
    > >>>story that is simply an
    > >>>allegation knowing full well what the outcome would be. Whatever

    happened
    > >>>to
    > >>>reporting the facts and the truth?
    > >>>
    > >>>If the people of Newsweek hate the US, they should simply move.
    > >>>
    > >>>Mark
    > >>>
    > >>The media has been that way for years, positively the bottom of the
    > >>barrel and absolutely dangerous because it's fighting for it's very
    > >>existence. As it changes, so does crime, hell of an education in

    mass
    > >>psychology.
    > >>
    > >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    > >>theater
    > >>

    > >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    > >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    > >It's almost perfect
    > >

    > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child (or
    > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    > kind of spin with his death camps.
    >
    > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the nazi's.
    > It's surprising the similarities both share.


    You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    Charlie Self, May 15, 2005
    #8
  9. Mark Test

    Omega Guest

    : > >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    : > >>theater
    : > >>
    : > >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    : > >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    : > >It's almost perfect
    : > >
    : > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    : > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child (or
    : > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    : > kind of spin with his death camps.
    : >
    : > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the nazi's.
    : > It's surprising the similarities both share.
    :
    : You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    : missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    : that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    :

    I agree. I have just as much problem with the hardcore leftists (like
    MoveON.org and George Soros) as I do with white supremacist. With Eco
    terrorists who are not much different than Islamic fascists. What I want is
    balance.

    Everyone has their panties wadded up in a bunch over anything that Pat
    Robertson says. Yet he is not the leader of anything. He is at best a
    media creation used to scare the left and to keep moderates in line and
    voting democrat. At the same time everyone ignores what MoveOn.org does
    (who claim to own the democrats). Again, all I want is a balance. A fair
    shake.

    We get too much labeling and name calling "nazi" or fascist of those who
    resist this constant push over throw any form of tradition, value system or
    even trying to live a functional life. It is to the point that the labels
    no longer have a meaning. I saw one definition of fascist that basically
    stated that anything that was populist or reflected the will of the common
    man to be fascist. It basically suggested that only leftist, self centered,
    self indulgence was the only MORAL choice. That any form of self discipline
    or even asking that people be self accountable was fascism.

    Again balance. yes we have self interest but we also belong to a society.
    I am the first who does not want to see the use of force in order to
    establish social norms.
    Omega, May 15, 2005
    #9
  10. In article <>,
    "Charlie Self" <> wrote:

    >
    > You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    > missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    > that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.


    Thank you. I do enjoy that in the fUSSR, they refer to the Communists
    as the "right". It's not a straight-line political spectrum, but a
    Moebius strip.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 15, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <uOGhe.80650$NU4.77751@attbi_s22>, "Omega"
    <2121(D)@insightbb.com> wrote:

    > : > >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a crowded
    > : > >>theater
    > : > >>
    > : > >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    > : > >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    > : > >It's almost perfect
    > : > >
    > : > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    > : > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child (or
    > : > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    > : > kind of spin with his death camps.
    > : >
    > : > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the nazi's.
    > : > It's surprising the similarities both share.
    > :
    > : You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    > : missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    > : that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    > :
    >
    > I agree. I have just as much problem with the hardcore leftists (like
    > MoveON.org and George Soros) as I do with white supremacist. With Eco
    > terrorists who are not much different than Islamic fascists. What I want
    > is
    > balance.
    >
    > Everyone has their panties wadded up in a bunch over anything that Pat
    > Robertson says. Yet he is not the leader of anything.


    Generally agreed, with the caveat he has enough media access -- which he
    controls -- to influence. I do feel his remark about the desirability
    of a nuclear attack on the State Department was treated with kid gloves
    -- others saying such things have been arrested for terrorist threats.

    >He is at best a
    > media creation used to scare the left and to keep moderates in line and
    > voting democrat. At the same time everyone ignores what MoveOn.org does
    > (who claim to own the democrats). Again, all I want is a balance. A
    > fair
    > shake.


    Here we are in agreement.

    >
    > We get too much labeling and name calling "nazi" or fascist of those who
    > resist this constant push over throw any form of tradition, value system
    > or
    > even trying to live a functional life. It is to the point that the
    > labels
    > no longer have a meaning. I saw one definition of fascist that basically
    > stated that anything that was populist or reflected the will of the
    > common
    > man to be fascist. It basically suggested that only leftist, self
    > centered,
    > self indulgence was the only MORAL choice. That any form of self
    > discipline
    > or even asking that people be self accountable was fascism.


    That you have seen a definition does not mean it was not written by an
    ignorant fool.

    >
    > Again balance. yes we have self interest but we also belong to a
    > society.
    > I am the first who does not want to see the use of force in order to
    > establish social norms.
    >


    Omega, I dearly hope that is true. Many of your postings suggest that
    you predict the use of force and that you do not condemn it.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 15, 2005
    #11
  12. Mark Test

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > "Mark Test" <> wrote in message
    > news:YHqhe.1267$...
    >
    >>From the World News:
    >>
    >>"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation that
    >>American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy book in an
    >>effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report said that
    >>they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and had

    >
    > "in
    >
    >>at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .

    >
    >
    > That would be suspect to start with. I have 3 or 4 Bibles, even though I am
    > agnostic, and I'd have a tough time flushing any of them down a toilet.
    >
    >
    >>The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)

    >
    >
    > I suspect that how hard-core Muslims view desecration of the Quran is highly
    > at odds with how most Christians view the physical Bible. Most of mine are
    > on the floor someplace. They are just books.
    >
    >
    >>Look who "runs" with the story:
    >>
    >>"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was re-broadcast

    >
    > by
    >
    >>television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in Pakistan it

    >
    > was
    >
    >>quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    >>conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that America's War

    >
    > on
    >
    >>Terror was against Muslims."
    >>
    >>This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    >>
    >>"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death toll in
    >>clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen after a
    >>third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two injured near
    >>Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt down aid
    >>agencies' offices. "

    >
    > [ SNIP ]
    >
    > Just tells you what kind of irrational people we are dealing with. Burning
    > down aid agencies' offices? Jesus, that's a useful demonstration. All over a
    > f**king chunk of paper.
    >
    > AHS
    >
    >

    It would make more sense if they attacked US military stations... but of
    course THEY might shoot back. I think you can see what is going on
    here. Attack only those who can't defend themselves, just like the WTC.
    I notice they didn't try to attack military BASES which could have
    fought back.


    --
    Ron Hunter
    Ron Hunter, May 15, 2005
    #12
  13. Ron Hunter wrote:
    > Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > > "Mark Test" <> wrote in message
    > > news:YHqhe.1267$...
    > >
    > >>From the World News:
    > >>
    > >>"The unrest began this week after Newsweek published an allegation

    that
    > >>American military interrogators had desecrated the Islamic holy

    book in an
    > >>effort to rattle detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The report

    said that
    > >>they had placed the Koran on the lavatory inside inmates' cells and

    had
    > >
    > > "in
    > >
    > >>at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet" .

    > >
    > >
    > > That would be suspect to start with. I have 3 or 4 Bibles, even

    though I am
    > > agnostic, and I'd have a tough time flushing any of them down a

    toilet.
    > >
    > >
    > >>The word ALLEGATION concerns me. (ie., they had no PROOF)

    > >
    > >
    > > I suspect that how hard-core Muslims view desecration of the Quran

    is highly
    > > at odds with how most Christians view the physical Bible. Most of

    mine are
    > > on the floor someplace. They are just books.
    > >
    > >
    > >>Look who "runs" with the story:
    > >>
    > >>"Although the original report in Newsweek was small, it was

    re-broadcast
    > >
    > > by
    > >
    > >>television networks such as al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya and in

    Pakistan it
    > >
    > > was
    > >
    > >>quoted by Imran Khan, the cricketer-turned-politician, at a press
    > >>conference. He said it would strengthen the impression that

    America's War
    > >
    > > on
    > >
    > >>Terror was against Muslims."
    > >>
    > >>This blood is on Newsweek's hands:
    > >>
    > >>"The most violent protests were in Afghanistan, where the death

    toll in
    > >>clashes between demonstrators and security forces reached fourteen

    after a
    > >>third day of rioting. Three people were killed and twenty-two

    injured near
    > >>Faizabad, in Badakhshan province, when a thousand rioters burnt

    down aid
    > >>agencies' offices. "

    > >
    > > [ SNIP ]
    > >
    > > Just tells you what kind of irrational people we are dealing with.

    Burning
    > > down aid agencies' offices? Jesus, that's a useful demonstration.

    All over a
    > > f**king chunk of paper.
    > >
    > > AHS
    > >
    > >

    > It would make more sense if they attacked US military stations... but

    of
    > course THEY might shoot back. I think you can see what is going on


    > here. Attack only those who can't defend themselves, just like the

    WTC.
    > I notice they didn't try to attack military BASES which could have
    > fought back.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Ron Hunter




    There is a story in the NYT today to the effect that the current
    insurgency has the powers that be baffled. They seem to be trying to
    create an enemy in attacking the Shiite and Kurd populations. The
    attacks on the police stations and recruiting places makes sense in
    that creates a sense of unease amongst those that should feel the
    safest. Also, most of the foreign element in the insurgency seems to be
    Saudi, I guess they are exporting their problems.
    Jack Linthicum, May 15, 2005
    #13
  14. Mark Test

    Omega Guest

    "Howard Berkowitz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    : In article <uOGhe.80650$NU4.77751@attbi_s22>, "Omega"
    : <2121(D)@insightbb.com> wrote:
    :
    : > : > >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a
    crowded
    : > : > >>theater
    : > : > >>
    : > : > >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    : > : > >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child.
    : > : > >It's almost perfect
    : > : > >
    : > : > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a wealth of
    : > : > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a child
    (or
    : > : > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did the same
    : > : > kind of spin with his death camps.
    : > : >
    : > : > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the
    nazi's.
    : > : > It's surprising the similarities both share.
    : > :
    : > : You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    : > : missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is
    extremism
    : > : that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    : > :
    : >
    : > I agree. I have just as much problem with the hardcore leftists (like
    : > MoveON.org and George Soros) as I do with white supremacist. With Eco
    : > terrorists who are not much different than Islamic fascists. What I
    want
    : > is balance.
    : >
    : > Everyone has their panties wadded up in a bunch over anything that Pat
    : > Robertson says. Yet he is not the leader of anything.
    :
    : Generally agreed, with the caveat he has enough media access -- which he
    : controls -- to influence. I do feel his remark about the desirability
    : of a nuclear attack on the State Department was treated with kid gloves
    : -- others saying such things have been arrested for terrorist threats.
    :
    : >He is at best a
    : > media creation used to scare the left and to keep moderates in line and
    : > voting democrat. At the same time everyone ignores what MoveOn.org does
    : > (who claim to own the democrats). Again, all I want is a balance. A
    : > fair shake.
    :
    : Here we are in agreement.
    :
    : >
    : > We get too much labeling and name calling "nazi" or fascist of those who
    : > resist this constant push over throw any form of tradition, value system
    : > or
    : > even trying to live a functional life. It is to the point that the
    : > labels no longer have a meaning. I saw one definition of fascist that
    basically
    : > stated that anything that was populist or reflected the will of the
    : > common man to be fascist. It basically suggested that only leftist,
    self
    : > centered, self indulgence was the only MORAL choice. That any form of
    self
    : > discipline or even asking that people be self accountable was fascism.
    :
    : That you have seen a definition does not mean it was not written by an
    : ignorant fool.
    :
    : >
    : > Again balance. yes we have self interest but we also belong to a
    : > society. I am the first who does not want to see the use of force in
    order to
    : > establish social norms.
    : >
    :
    : Omega, I dearly hope that is true. Many of your postings suggest that
    : you predict the use of force and that you do not condemn it.

    No, you read into comments often what is not there. In several cases you
    have stepped into a thread where I was dealing with an extremist and using
    perverse logic just to mess with their minds. Just because I use extreme
    language does not mean that was my belief. I have had the same thing happen
    with right wing folks who get upset because I use the language of the left
    (right and left do seem to express things differently) in order to debate an
    anti gun activist. By using an extreme position, it often makes the other
    side sit back and rethink.

    Again what I want is a fair shake. I am so tired of the leftists who have a
    holier than thou attitude (not that there is not enough self righteousness
    on both sides). And, ever since Clinton, the tactic of demonization.
    Neither side is monolithic. And the left has as much problems as the right.
    In many ways George Soros and MoveOn.org have the potential to be far more
    dangerous than anything the "religious right" may do. Particularly since
    Soros is funding a rewrite of the Constitution by the Yale Law School.

    And in the end, just some peace so that I can go back to enjoying my hobbies
    without being concerned that the left will outlaw them.
    Omega, May 15, 2005
    #14
  15. Howard Berkowitz <> wrote:

    :In article <>,
    :"Charlie Self" <> wrote:
    :
    :>
    :> You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    :> missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    :> that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    :
    :Thank you. I do enjoy that in the fUSSR, they refer to the Communists
    :as the "right". It's not a straight-line political spectrum, but a
    :Moebius strip.

    It's not even a Moebius strip. It's a Klein bottle.
    Fred J. McCall, May 15, 2005
    #15
  16. "Jack Linthicum" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > There is a story in the NYT today to the effect that the current
    > insurgency has the powers that be baffled. They seem to be trying to
    > create an enemy in attacking the Shiite and Kurd populations.


    Nope. They seem to be striking at anything they can hit without actually
    alienating their Sunni power base.

    The
    > attacks on the police stations and recruiting places makes sense in
    > that creates a sense of unease amongst those that should feel the
    > safest. Also, most of the foreign element in the insurgency seems to be
    > Saudi, I guess they are exporting their problems.


    The 9/11 perpetrators were mostly Saudi as well.

    Nothing new there...

    --
    William Black

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
    Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
    I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
    All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
    Time for tea
    William Black, May 15, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <>,
    wrote:

    > Howard Berkowitz <> wrote:
    >
    > :In article <>,
    > :"Charlie Self" <> wrote:
    > :
    > :>
    > :> You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists share
    > :> missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is extremism
    > :> that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    > :
    > :Thank you. I do enjoy that in the fUSSR, they refer to the Communists
    > :as the "right". It's not a straight-line political spectrum, but a
    > :Moebius strip.
    >
    > It's not even a Moebius strip. It's a Klein bottle.
    >
    >


    Go one step farther. The glassblower was on hallucinogens.

    The interesting question would be what kind of booze you'd find in
    it...and the more extreme you get, the drunker you would be.
    Howard Berkowitz, May 15, 2005
    #17
  18. On Sun, 15 May 2005 11:57:14 GMT, in rec.photo.digital , "Omega"
    <> in <uOGhe.80650$NU4.77751@attbi_s22> wrote:

    [snip]

    >Everyone has their panties wadded up in a bunch over anything that Pat
    >Robertson says. Yet he is not the leader of anything.


    Huh? He owns a television network, he was a Republican candidate for
    president, he has a large audience and a large following. What do you
    mean by "leader" here?

    >He is at best a
    >media creation used to scare the left and to keep moderates in line and
    >voting democrat. At the same time everyone ignores what MoveOn.org does
    >(who claim to own the democrats). Again, all I want is a balance. A fair
    >shake.
    >
    >We get too much labeling and name calling "nazi" or fascist of those who
    >resist this constant push over throw any form of tradition, value system or
    >even trying to live a functional life. It is to the point that the labels
    >no longer have a meaning. I saw one definition of fascist that basically
    >stated that anything that was populist or reflected the will of the common
    >man to be fascist. It basically suggested that only leftist, self centered,
    >self indulgence was the only MORAL choice. That any form of self discipline
    >or even asking that people be self accountable was fascism.


    Not like you use "leftist" in some distorted manner.

    >Again balance. yes we have self interest but we also belong to a society.
    >I am the first who does not want to see the use of force in order to
    >establish social norms.



    --
    Matt Silberstein

    All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
    a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
    there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
    end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
    or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
    Matt Silberstein, May 16, 2005
    #18
  19. Omega wrote:
    > "Howard Berkowitz" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > : In article <uOGhe.80650$NU4.77751@attbi_s22>, "Omega"
    > : <2121(D)@insightbb.com> wrote:
    > :
    > : > : > >>An odd cross between charlie manson and screaming fire in a


    > crowded
    > : > : > >>theater
    > : > : > >>
    > : > : > >Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a

    wealth of
    > : > : > >injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a

    child.
    > : > : > >It's almost perfect
    > : > : > >
    > : > : > Social activists media with bias for the left. Hiding a

    wealth of
    > : > : > injustice, betrayal, and murder behind the bright eyes of a

    child
    > (or
    > : > : > at least our civic responsibility to children). Hitler did

    the same
    > : > : > kind of spin with his death camps.
    > : > : >
    > : > : > Somebody should do a paper comparing the extreme left and the


    > nazi's.
    > : > : > It's surprising the similarities both share.
    > : > :
    > : > : You don't need the qualifier, "left". Left or right, extremists

    share
    > : > : missions--their way or they'll kill you, jail you, etc. It is
    > extremism
    > : > : that is the problem, not leftness or rightness.
    > : > :
    > : >
    > : > I agree. I have just as much problem with the hardcore leftists

    (like
    > : > MoveON.org and George Soros) as I do with white supremacist.

    With Eco
    > : > terrorists who are not much different than Islamic fascists.

    What I
    > want
    > : > is balance.
    > : >
    > : > Everyone has their panties wadded up in a bunch over anything

    that Pat
    > : > Robertson says. Yet he is not the leader of anything.
    > :
    > : Generally agreed, with the caveat he has enough media access --

    which he
    > : controls -- to influence. I do feel his remark about the

    desirability
    > : of a nuclear attack on the State Department was treated with kid

    gloves
    > : -- others saying such things have been arrested for terrorist

    threats.
    > :
    > : >He is at best a
    > : > media creation used to scare the left and to keep moderates in

    line and
    > : > voting democrat. At the same time everyone ignores what

    MoveOn.org does
    > : > (who claim to own the democrats). Again, all I want is a

    balance. A
    > : > fair shake.
    > :
    > : Here we are in agreement.
    > :
    > : >
    > : > We get too much labeling and name calling "nazi" or fascist of

    those who
    > : > resist this constant push over throw any form of tradition, value

    system
    > : > or
    > : > even trying to live a functional life. It is to the point that

    the
    > : > labels no longer have a meaning. I saw one definition of

    fascist that
    > basically
    > : > stated that anything that was populist or reflected the will of

    the
    > : > common man to be fascist. It basically suggested that only

    leftist,
    > self
    > : > centered, self indulgence was the only MORAL choice. That any

    form of
    > self
    > : > discipline or even asking that people be self accountable was

    fascism.
    > :
    > : That you have seen a definition does not mean it was not written by

    an
    > : ignorant fool.
    > :
    > : >
    > : > Again balance. yes we have self interest but we also belong to a
    > : > society. I am the first who does not want to see the use of

    force in
    > order to
    > : > establish social norms.
    > : >
    > :
    > : Omega, I dearly hope that is true. Many of your postings suggest

    that
    > : you predict the use of force and that you do not condemn it.
    >
    > No, you read into comments often what is not there. In several cases

    you
    > have stepped into a thread where I was dealing with an extremist and

    using
    > perverse logic just to mess with their minds. Just because I use

    extreme
    > language does not mean that was my belief. I have had the same thing

    happen
    > with right wing folks who get upset because I use the language of the

    left
    > (right and left do seem to express things differently) in order to

    debate an
    > anti gun activist. By using an extreme position, it often makes the

    other
    > side sit back and rethink.
    >
    > Again what I want is a fair shake. I am so tired of the leftists who

    have a
    > holier than thou attitude (not that there is not enough self

    righteousness
    > on both sides). And, ever since Clinton, the tactic of demonization.


    > Neither side is monolithic. And the left has as much problems as the

    right.
    > In many ways George Soros and MoveOn.org have the potential to be far

    more
    > dangerous than anything the "religious right" may do. Particularly

    since
    > Soros is funding a rewrite of the Constitution by the Yale Law

    School.
    >
    > And in the end, just some peace so that I can go back to enjoying my

    hobbies
    > without being concerned that the left will outlaw them.


    One of my sources just forwarded me a copy of a rather intriguing
    document about the left. In the remainder of this letter, I plan to
    summarize the contents of that document in an effort to embrace
    diversity. Some background is in order: I plan to follow through on the
    critical work that has already begun. This is a choice I have made;
    your choice is up to you. But let me remind you that the left somehow
    manages to maintain a straight face when saying that it can absorb mana
    by devouring its nemeses' brains. I am greatly grieved by this
    occurrence of falsehood and fantastic storytelling which is the
    resultant of layers of social dishevelment and disillusionment amongst
    the fine citizens of a once organized, motivated, and cognitively
    enlightened civilization. The left controls a secret underground
    empire. For proof of this fact, I must point out that I find the left's
    whinges to be a perversion of the truth. There's nothing controversial
    about that view. It's a fact, pure and simple. It was a fact long
    before anyone realized that the space remaining in this letter will not
    suffice even to enumerate the ways in which the left has tried to
    overthrow all concepts of beauty and sublimity, of the noble and the
    good, and instead drag people down into the sphere of its own base
    nature. The left maintains a "Big Brother" dossier of incriminating
    personal information about everyone it distrusts, to use as a potential
    career-ruining weapon. Is your name listed in that dossier? After days
    of agonized pondering and reflection, I finally came to the conclusion
    that the left's manifestos will have consequences -- very serious
    consequences. And we ought to begin doing something about that.

    I want to tell the left what we all think of it -- and boy, do I have
    some choice words I'd like to use. I want to do this not because I need
    to tack another line onto my résumé, but because the left's satraps
    actually believe the bunkum they're always mouthing. That's because
    these kinds of cruel litterbugs are idealistic, have no sense of
    history or human nature, and they think that what they're doing will
    improve the world in the blink of an eye. In reality, of course, the
    left is typical of nugatory, uncivilized mattoids in its wild
    invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to
    dramatize its ploys. Next time, the left, you may want to check your
    facts correctly. The left says that we should abandon the
    institutionalized and revered concept of democracy. Yet it also wants
    to portray warped nitwits as fanatics. Am I the only one who sees the
    irony there? I ask because its precepts are continually evolving into
    more and more brutal incarnations. Here, I'm not just talking about
    evolution in a simply Darwinist sense; I'm also talking about how the
    left thinks that it is slimy to question its criticisms. Of course,
    thinking so doesn't make it so.

    My message is clear: I honestly have a hard time trying to reason with
    people who remain calm when they see the left replace discourse and
    open dialogue with shabby exegeses and blatant ugliness. We are on a
    slippery slope towards economic strife, social turmoil, cultural chaos,
    and improvident favoritism. That's pretty transparent. What's not so
    transparent is the answer to the following question: Why is it that 99
    times out of 100, the left is a big fan of interrogation and torture? A
    clue might be that the left's goal is to leach integrity and honor from
    our souls. How oppressive is that? How harebrained? How naive?

    If I am doomed to question my existence, then the left will obviously
    marginalize and eventually even outlaw responsible critics of the most
    spiteful hell-raisers I've ever seen one of these days. Indecent,
    sniffish pinheads generally assert that the left has no intention to
    preach fear and ignorance, but the left's often-quoted theories belie
    this notion. One indication of this is the fact that far too many
    people tolerate the left's imprecations as long as they're presented in
    small, seemingly harmless doses. What these people fail to realize,
    however, is that the left has announced its intentions to mobilize
    support for the special interests that dominate state and private
    activity. While doing so may earn the left a gold star from the
    mush-for-brains careerism crowd, there is a genuine coldness, a chill,
    that pervades the land, as people are scared to death by its despicable
    mottos. If you doubt this, just ask around. In case you hadn't noticed,
    ancient Greek dramatists discerned a peculiar virtue in being tragic.
    The left would do well to realize that they never discerned any virtue
    in being merciless.

    If there's a rule, and the left keeps making exceptions to that rule,
    then what good is the rule? I mean, I have a dream that my children
    will be able to live in a world filled with open spaces and beautiful
    wilderness -- not in a dark, illiberal world run by power-drunk hostes
    generis humani. The left can write anything it wants about how things
    would be different were we to give into its demands and let it
    eliminate those law-enforcement officers who constitute the vital
    protective bulwark in the fragile balance between anarchy and tyranny,
    but its policies may have been conceived in idealism, but they quickly
    degenerated into amateurish negativism. As a parting thought, remember
    that one can predict on empirical grounds that sometime soon the left
    will turn crooks loose against us good citizens.
    Concerned Citizen, May 17, 2005
    #19
  20. Newsweek Act II

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7937016/site/newsweek/

    By Evan Thomas and Michael Isikoff
    Newsweek
    Updated: 2:43 a.m. ET May 22, 2005

    What really happened at Guantanamo? Last week, amid the heat of the
    controversy over NEWSWEEK's retracted story, new details about the
    issue of alleged mistreatment of the Qur'an emerged.


    The International Committee of the Red Cross announced that it had
    provided the Pentagon with confidential reports about U.S. personnel
    disrespecting or mishandling Qur'ans at Gitmo in 2002 and 2003. Simon
    Schorno, an ICRC spokesman, said the Red Cross had provided "several"
    instances that it believed were "credible." The ICRC report included
    three specific allegations of offensive treatment of the Qur'an by
    guards. Defense Department spokesman Lawrence Di Rita would not comment
    on these allegations except to say that the Gitmo commanders routinely
    followed up ICRC reports, including these, and could not substantiate
    them. He then gave what is from the Defense Department point of view
    more context and important new information.

    It is clear that in 2002, military investigators became frustrated by
    the unresponsiveness of some high-profile terror suspects, including
    one who had close contact with the 9/11 hijackers. At the time, fears
    of another attack from Al Qaeda were running high, and the Pentagon was
    determined to make the terror suspects talk. The interrogators asked
    for, and received, Pentagon permission to use tactics like isolation
    and sleep deprivation. Less clear, however, is what happened to more
    run-of-the-mill detainees among the 800 or so housed at Guantanamo at
    the time.

    According to Di Rita, when the first prisons were built for suspected
    terrorists at Guantanamo in early 2002, prison guards were instructed
    to respect the detainees' religious rituals. The prisoners were given
    Qur'ans, which they hung from the walls of their cells in cotton
    surgical masks provided by the prison. Log entries by the guards
    indicate that in about a dozen cases, the detainees themselves somehow
    damaged their Qur'ans. In one case a prisoner allegedly ripped up a
    Qur'an; in another a prisoner tore the cover off his Qur'an. In three
    cases, detainees tried to stuff pages from their Qur'ans down their
    toilets, according to the Defense Department's account of what is in
    the guards' reports. (NEWSWEEK was not permitted to see the log items.)
    The log entries do not indicate why the detainees might have done this,
    said Di Rita, and prison commanders concluded that certain hard-core
    prisoners would try to agitate the other detainees by alleging
    disrespect for Muslim articles of faith.

    In light of the controversy, one of these incidents bears special
    notice. Last week, NEWSWEEK interviewed Command Sgt. John VanNatta, who
    served as the prison's warden from October 2002 to the fall of 2003.
    VanNatta recounted that in 2002, the inmates suddenly started yelling
    that the guards had thrown a Qur'an on or near an Asian-style squat
    toilet. The guards found an inmate who admitted that he had dropped his
    Qur'an near his toilet. According to VanNatta, the inmate then was
    taken cell to cell to explain this to other detainees to quell the
    unrest. But the incident could partly account for the multiple
    allegations among detainees, including one by a released British
    detainee in a lawsuit that claims that guards flushed Qur'ans down
    toilets.

    In fewer than a dozen log entries from the 31,000 documents reviewed so
    far, said Di Rita, there is a mention of detainees' complaining that
    guards or interrogators mishandled their Qur'ans. In one case, a female
    guard allegedly knocked a Qur'an from its pouch onto the detainee's
    bed. In another alleged case, said Di Rita, detainees became upset
    after two MPs, looking for contraband, felt the pouch containing a
    prisoner's Qur'an. While questioning a detainee, an interrogator
    allegedly put a Qur'an on top of a TV set, took it off when the
    detainee complained, then put it back on. In another alleged instance,
    guards somehow sprayed water on a detainee's Qur'an. This handful of
    alleged cases came out of thousands of daily interactions between
    guards and prisoners, said Di Rita. None has been substantiated yet, he
    said.

    In December 2002, a guard inadvertently knocked a Qur'an from its pouch
    onto the floor of a detainee's cell, Di Rita said. A number of
    detainees protested. That January, partly in response to the incident
    and partly to provide precise guidelines for new guards and
    interrogators, the Guantanamo commanders issued precise rules to
    respect the "cultural dignity of the Koran thereby reducing the
    friction over the searching of the Korans." Only chaplains or Muslim
    interpreters were allowed to inspect detainees' Qur'ans. "Two hands
    will be used at all times when handling Korans in a manner signaling
    respect and reverence," the rules state. "Ensure that the Koran is not
    placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink,
    near the feet, or dirty/wet areas..."

    Di Rita said that the Pentagon may look further into the reports found
    in the logs. The Pentagon is not ruling out the possibility of finding
    credible reports of Qur'an desecration. But so far, said Di Rita, it
    has not found any.

    With Michael Hirsh in Washington
    © 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
    Jack Linthicum, May 22, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. dark elf

    Just wanted to share a story

    dark elf, Feb 24, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    365
    Emrys Davies
    Feb 24, 2004
  2. sbcmynews
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    898
    Walter T.
    May 1, 2005
  3. Bill Hilton

    Even "Newsweek" disrespects the Oly 4/3 !!

    Bill Hilton, Mar 2, 2006, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    270
  4. kena
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    458
  5. Frank Calidonna

    Newsweek Article saying digital is killing photography

    Frank Calidonna, Dec 8, 2007, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    542
    Paul Furman
    Dec 13, 2007
Loading...

Share This Page