New Telecom ADSL Plans

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by whome, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. whome

    whome Guest

    whome, Sep 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. whome

    whome Guest

    whome, Sep 25, 2006
    #2
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  3. whome

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:19:12 +1200, "whome" <>
    exclaimed:

    >
    >"whome" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Anyone have a link to the new plans?
    >>
    >> The following link seems to have forgotten to publish the most important
    >> information..
    >>
    >> http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/5AE13C8F731A1C90CC2571F1000C8C5E
    >>

    >
    >ah, they fixed up the article now.
    >
    >very minor improvements to todays plans.
    >

    "Very minor" improvements?!?

    2-3x the speed is "very minor"??!
    Fred Dagg, Sep 25, 2006
    #3
  4. whome

    whome Guest

    "Fred Dagg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:19:12 +1200, "whome" <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >>
    >>"whome" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Anyone have a link to the new plans?
    >>>
    >>> The following link seems to have forgotten to publish the most important
    >>> information..
    >>>
    >>> http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/5AE13C8F731A1C90CC2571F1000C8C5E
    >>>

    >>
    >>ah, they fixed up the article now.
    >>
    >>very minor improvements to todays plans.
    >>

    > "Very minor" improvements?!?
    >
    > 2-3x the speed is "very minor"??!


    Very few people will get full speed due to various reasons such as exchange
    distance, contention ratios and so on.

    There is still no plan with Full speed upload where the cap is throttled on
    exceeding the threshold.

    The 'managed' plan will be really slow cos all the file sharers will be
    going for that one.

    Detailed analysis of these plans shows in some ways the new plans are
    actually worse.
    whome, Sep 25, 2006
    #4
  5. whome

    Richard Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > "Very minor" improvements?!?
    >
    > 2-3x the speed is "very minor"??!


    Since 3.5 meg came out, I dont think anyone has had a complaint about
    the official downstream speed.

    The fact that loads of people are unable to get anywhere near that speed
    for most of the day, and that the caps are so damn low is what is the
    problem to a majority of internet users.

    Add to that, that with the crapness of telecoms network there will be
    loads of crosstalk on the higher frequancies that the higher rates need
    to work, it will most likley have a minimal speed increse for loads of
    people. Theres a hell of a lot more people on ADSL now compared with the
    old jetstart/jetstream days which is the last time most people had the
    physical layer speed unrestricted.

    Lets all just watch the network turn to shit. Hell, at the moment its
    impossible to watch a youtube video at peak times for a lot of people,
    and thats supposed to be under 512k. I for a while thought that we were
    capped in some way here, no, just crappy performance.
    Richard, Sep 25, 2006
    #5
  6. whome

    Gordon Guest

    On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:26:26 +1200, Richard wrote:

    > Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> "Very minor" improvements?!?
    >>
    >> 2-3x the speed is "very minor"??!

    >
    > Since 3.5 meg came out, I dont think anyone has had a complaint about
    > the official downstream speed.


    Ping your newgroup reading and memory. All ack lost.

    >
    > The fact that loads of people are unable to get anywhere near that speed
    > for most of the day, and that the caps are so damn low is what is the
    > problem to a majority of internet users.


    Speed is one thing caps another. Both being high is good.

    ADSL right from the outset was a factor of how good the physical
    connection was. It was "invented" to compete with cable TV.
    Gordon, Sep 25, 2006
    #6
  7. On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:19:23 +1200, whome wrote:

    > Very few people will get full speed due to various reasons such as exchange
    > distance, contention ratios and so on.
    >
    > There is still no plan with Full speed upload where the cap is throttled on
    > exceeding the threshold.
    >
    > The 'managed' plan will be really slow cos all the file sharers will be
    > going for that one.
    >
    > Detailed analysis of these plans shows in some ways the new plans are
    > actually worse.


    Ever since the 3.5Mbit plans come out, the overall quality of my
    connection started to decline and has since continued to become slower and
    slower. Sometimes my International access speeds drop to as low as the sub
    100kb/s in the evenings and browsing also becomes somewhat inconsistent.

    In the 2Mbit days, I use to get Fullspeed 2Mbit National access speed most
    of the time, as well as 1.25 Mbit and higher International access speeds
    most times.
    Now I struggle to see National Access speed raise above 2Mbit
    and International Access only seldoms goes above 1Mbit, outside of peak it
    hovers around 700-1Mbit whilst in the evening it's mostly averaging around
    150-350.

    Also, where are our data cap increases? I noticed that our household
    usage has gone from 1.5GB 2003 3GB 2004 6GB 2005 and now 12GB, and 80% of
    the traffic is Surfing and browsing alone. As strange as it may seem, I
    ended up blowing about 1GB searching for Real Estage Investment related
    Material this weekend. Guess extensively investigating neighbourhoods
    using Google Maps isn't a particularly good idea, nor regularly
    accesing photo intensive Real Estate sites and I guess the increasing use
    of Macromedia flash on sites doesn't help either

    In short these FS plans mean absolute squat to me. My rhetorical question
    is obviously... Where is the improvement?
    TyphoonTycoon, Sep 25, 2006
    #7
  8. whome

    whome Guest

    "TyphoonTycoon" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:19:23 +1200, whome wrote:
    >
    >> Very few people will get full speed due to various reasons such as
    >> exchange
    >> distance, contention ratios and so on.
    >>
    >> There is still no plan with Full speed upload where the cap is throttled
    >> on
    >> exceeding the threshold.
    >>
    >> The 'managed' plan will be really slow cos all the file sharers will be
    >> going for that one.
    >>
    >> Detailed analysis of these plans shows in some ways the new plans are
    >> actually worse.

    >
    > Ever since the 3.5Mbit plans come out, the overall quality of my
    > connection started to decline and has since continued to become slower and
    > slower. Sometimes my International access speeds drop to as low as the sub
    > 100kb/s in the evenings and browsing also becomes somewhat inconsistent.
    >
    > In the 2Mbit days, I use to get Fullspeed 2Mbit National access speed most
    > of the time, as well as 1.25 Mbit and higher International access speeds
    > most times.
    > Now I struggle to see National Access speed raise above 2Mbit
    > and International Access only seldoms goes above 1Mbit, outside of peak it
    > hovers around 700-1Mbit whilst in the evening it's mostly averaging around
    > 150-350.
    >
    > Also, where are our data cap increases? I noticed that our household
    > usage has gone from 1.5GB 2003 3GB 2004 6GB 2005 and now 12GB, and 80% of
    > the traffic is Surfing and browsing alone. As strange as it may seem, I
    > ended up blowing about 1GB searching for Real Estage Investment related
    > Material this weekend. Guess extensively investigating neighbourhoods
    > using Google Maps isn't a particularly good idea, nor regularly
    > accesing photo intensive Real Estate sites and I guess the increasing use
    > of Macromedia flash on sites doesn't help either
    >
    > In short these FS plans mean absolute squat to me. My rhetorical question
    > is obviously... Where is the improvement?
    >
    >


    Agreed, the caps are not really getting much larger for the price. I'd
    rather they increase caps than speed for precisely the reasons you outline.
    whome, Sep 25, 2006
    #8
  9. In message <45174db1$>, Richard wrote:

    > Lets all just watch the network turn to shit.


    "Imminent death of the net predicted."
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 25, 2006
    #9
  10. whome

    whome Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:ef81bn$rej$...
    > In message <45174db1$>, Richard wrote:
    >
    >> Lets all just watch the network turn to shit.

    >
    > "Imminent death of the net predicted."



    The more I look at this, the more I hate the new plans.

    I am on 10gig capped plan right now where speed is throttled. I want to
    stay on this plan, since it will not be 'managed' and I have the 10gig cap
    and don't have to worry if I exceed the cap.

    But, the closest of the new plans where my speed is guaranteed is the pro
    advanced plan but that is 20 bucks more than I pay today.

    Dirty scumbag money grubbing telecom turds.
    whome, Sep 26, 2006
    #10
  11. whome

    PeeCee Guest

    "whome" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Anyone have a link to the new plans?
    >
    > The following link seems to have forgotten to publish the most important
    > information..
    >
    > http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/5AE13C8F731A1C90CC2571F1000C8C5E
    >


    Telecom/Xtra plan page here:
    http://xtraplans.co.nz/unleashed/plans_table.html

    Seems anything with a decent cap 'and' full speed 'up' is not throttled but
    on a $$$ per MB, or a ridicously low data cap.

    Telecom/Xtra's decision makers still don't understand people are quite
    willing to pay for a reasonable up speed and data cap but they will 'not'
    expose themselves to excess usage charges.
    i.e. the sort of potential exposure a Spyware/Malware invasion may cause or
    the innocent use of streaming content without realisation of the amount of
    data that entails over a period of time.

    Seems they still haven't 'got the message'

    Paul.
    PeeCee, Sep 26, 2006
    #11
  12. On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:44:50 +1200, "whome" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    >news:ef81bn$rej$...
    >> In message <45174db1$>, Richard wrote:
    >>
    >>> Lets all just watch the network turn to shit.

    >>
    >> "Imminent death of the net predicted."

    >
    >
    >The more I look at this, the more I hate the new plans.
    >
    >I am on 10gig capped plan right now where speed is throttled. I want to
    >stay on this plan, since it will not be 'managed' and I have the 10gig cap
    >and don't have to worry if I exceed the cap.


    My flat's on an older iHug 2Gb plan, with 40+40GB data, followed by
    capping. There's nothing remotely like this in the new regime,
    especially in the same price range. Now all we need is a connection
    that will stay up enough and be fast enough to use it all (to be fair,
    not a problem until last month).
    --
    Rupert Boleyn <>
    Rupert Boleyn, Sep 26, 2006
    #12
  13. On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:10:06 +1200, "PeeCee" <> wrote:

    >Telecom/Xtra plan page here:
    >http://xtraplans.co.nz/unleashed/plans_table.html
    >
    >Seems anything with a decent cap 'and' full speed 'up' is not throttled but
    >on a $$$ per MB, or a ridicously low data cap.


    I like the "Max means your connection speeds will be as fast as your
    phone line allows". That's bollocks, unless someone cleans up their
    act pretty smartly, because the choking isn't in the local phone
    lines.

    Also, check out the Fair Use policy for the "Go Large" plan:

    ----
    Fair use policy (detailed version for Xtra’s website and reference)

    If you're on our unlimited Go Large broadband plan then the Fair Use
    Policy applies to you.

    Some of our broadband customers use file sharing software (also known
    as peer-to-peer) and download large files like music and videos. This
    uses up lots of network capacity which means less is available for
    other customers.

    If our network is busy, the volume of peer-to-peer traffic can slow
    the speed at which other customers surf the web or send email.

    We want to avoid this which is why the Fair Use Policy exists.

    We expect the Fair Use Policy will only affect a very small number of
    customers on Xtra’s Go Large plan and if you don't use file sharing
    software or download large files from the Internet it's unlikely
    you'll ever be affected by it.

    If you do, all we ask is that you do so considerately, preferably by
    downloading outside the peak hours of 4pm to 12am (midnight).

    If in a single day you use more than 700MB of data during the peak
    hours of 4pm to 12am (midnight) then we'll get in touch with some
    advice on how to reduce your usage. If your usage continues to be very
    high, then you may become subject to our Fair Use Policy.

    That means we will transfer you into the Fair Use Pool where you will
    share a fixed amount of bandwidth with other users in this pool. You
    will remain in the Fair Use Pool for 1 week.

    Should your usage remain high for sustained periods of a month or more
    then we may contact you to discuss moving you to a more suitable plan.

    We may review the above limits from time to time to ensure that as
    things change you are always getting the optimum performance from our
    network.

    The best time for downloading large files is when our network is not
    as busy. Ideally, that means between 12am (midnight) and 4pm. During
    these hours you're likely to get a fast and reliable service as fewer
    people will be using the internet.
    ----

    Also note that this plan is to be managed "when the network is busy",
    which could mean just about any time.

    Combined with the utterly shitty unload speed offered, this plan is
    going to suck, IMO.

    All the other plans are even worse, being capped after a max of 2GB or
    costing over $20 a Gig. That makes for a very big bill very quickly.
    --
    Rupert Boleyn <>
    Rupert Boleyn, Sep 26, 2006
    #13
  14. whome

    Gordon Guest

    On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:47:02 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

    > I like the "Max means your connection speeds will be as fast as your
    > phone line allows". That's bollocks, unless someone cleans up their
    > act pretty smartly, because the choking isn't in the local phone
    > lines.


    Do some study on (A)DSL please. ADSL *is* influenced by how good/far the
    line is from the exchange.

    However, there are other blockages which are going to become important.
    Now gentle reader, can you see Xtra saying that they are not resticting
    the ADSL speeds while the wholesale part is resticting the width of the
    gateway out of NZ?
    Gordon, Sep 26, 2006
    #14
  15. whome

    Gordon Guest

    On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:44:50 +1200, whome wrote:

    >
    > "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    > news:ef81bn$rej$...
    >> In message <45174db1$>, Richard wrote:
    >>
    >>> Lets all just watch the network turn to shit.

    >>
    >> "Imminent death of the net predicted."

    >
    >
    > The more I look at this, the more I hate the new plans.
    >
    > I am on 10gig capped plan right now where speed is throttled. I want to
    > stay on this plan, since it will not be 'managed' and I have the 10gig cap
    > and don't have to worry if I exceed the cap.
    >
    > But, the closest of the new plans where my speed is guaranteed is the pro
    > advanced plan but that is 20 bucks more than I pay today.
    >
    > Dirty scumbag money grubbing telecom turds.


    Psst! Churn. Check out the competition. Free market forces govern!

    Nike, just Do it!
    Gordon, Sep 26, 2006
    #15
  16. whome

    Who Am I Guest

    In article <>,
    "whome" <> wrote:


    > Agreed, the caps are not really getting much larger for the price. I'd
    > rather they increase caps than speed for precisely the reasons you outline.


    Where as telescum see it better for them to not do that. What they want
    is for everyone to go to plans with "pay-for excess useage", then they
    will encourage the hell out of teenagers to gobble up bandwidth playing
    crap off youtube and the like.

    I refused to change off my plan last time and I will refuse to do so
    again. I am one of the lucky ones who managed to get the 192K upload
    before they had to play fair with the other ISPs.
    Who Am I, Sep 26, 2006
    #16
  17. whome

    Nho Whei Guest

    On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:04:29 +1200, Who Am I <> wrote:
    snip
    >I refused to change off my plan last time and I will refuse to do so
    >again. I am one of the lucky ones who managed to get the 192K upload
    >before they had to play fair with the other ISPs.

    I only went off that 192K upload plan when I no longer needed voip
    bandwidth. Can't claim to always get the 3.5 I switched to off course.
    Contention I reckon. What's your 2 meg download like.?
    Nho Whei, Sep 27, 2006
    #17
  18. whome

    Who Am I Guest

    In article <>,
    Nho Whei <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:04:29 +1200, Who Am I <> wrote:
    > snip
    > >I refused to change off my plan last time and I will refuse to do so
    > >again. I am one of the lucky ones who managed to get the 192K upload
    > >before they had to play fair with the other ISPs.

    > I only went off that 192K upload plan when I no longer needed voip
    > bandwidth. Can't claim to always get the 3.5 I switched to off course.
    > Contention I reckon. What's your 2 meg download like.?


    Varies from crap to good. Best I have had is about 1.8 Meg
    Who Am I, Sep 27, 2006
    #18
  19. whome

    MaHogany Guest

    On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:06:47 +1200, Who Am I wrote:

    >> I only went off that 192K upload plan when I no longer needed voip
    >> bandwidth. Can't claim to always get the 3.5 I switched to off course.
    >> Contention I reckon. What's your 2 meg download like.?

    >
    > Varies from crap to good. Best I have had is about 1.8 Meg


    IOW, you've never had the full 2megabit bandwidth available to you.


    Ma Hogany

    --
    "The average user doesn't know what he wants. The average user wants
    fries with that, if prompted."
    MaHogany, Sep 28, 2006
    #19
  20. whome

    Who Am I Guest

    In article <>,
    MaHogany <> wrote:

    > On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:06:47 +1200, Who Am I wrote:
    >
    > >> I only went off that 192K upload plan when I no longer needed voip
    > >> bandwidth. Can't claim to always get the 3.5 I switched to off course.
    > >> Contention I reckon. What's your 2 meg download like.?

    > >
    > > Varies from crap to good. Best I have had is about 1.8 Meg

    >
    > IOW, you've never had the full 2megabit bandwidth available to you.


    1. Its just as likely that I am limited by the distance from the
    exchange as any other factor, or its the ADSL modem I have, I have seen
    tests where the maximum throughput in test environments differed by a
    factor of more than 3 from worst to best.

    2. Its still a damn sight better than the 300 baud modem I started out
    with, thank god I missed the 1200/75 because I was uploading more then
    downloading.

    3. Its cheaper, faster, and more reliable than when I first got ADSL

    4. its a maximum speed, not a minimum. If I wanted guaranteed speed I
    could shell out for a dedicated line, but I should also be prepared to
    pay for it.
    Who Am I, Sep 28, 2006
    #20
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