new subject What makes a Server a Server?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Robert Cooze, Mar 5, 2005.

  1. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    network and also has a local web site on it.

    comments? and HO

    ps let the flame war start putting on asbestos suite
    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    Robert Cooze, Mar 5, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:

    > In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    > of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    > about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    > using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    > another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    > about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    > sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    > network and also has a local web site on it.
    >
    > comments? and HO
    >
    > ps let the flame war start putting on asbestos suite


    hehehe..
    Something similar caught my attention recently..
    Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    --

    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
    Shane (aka froggy), Mar 5, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    Shane (aka froggy) wrote:

    > On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    >>of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    >>about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    >>using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    >>another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    >>about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    >> sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    >>network and also has a local web site on it.
    >>
    >>comments? and HO
    >>
    >>ps let the flame war start putting on asbestos suite

    >
    >
    > hehehe..
    > Something similar caught my attention recently..
    > Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    > bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    > drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    > also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    > they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)

    Clustering that's what I want to pay with never had enough working
    machines spare to play with.

    PS & OT I think that Orcon is not in the news game any more just by
    looking at the advertising put on my original post:( is that spam? or am
    I paying money to Orcon so they can put adds on my thoughts :(

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    Robert Cooze, Mar 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Robert Cooze wrote:
    > PS & OT I think that Orcon is not in the news game any more just by
    > looking at the advertising put on my original post:( is that spam? or am
    > I paying money to Orcon so they can put adds on my thoughts :(


    Orcon outsources their news service to newsfeeds.com who add the message
    to all their incoming posts.

    Most Orcon users now use a free tect-only service to post their
    messages. Orcon could provide a good full-text newsfeed at almost no
    cost to them, instead they outsource to a crappy binary provider at
    minimal cost.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Mar 6, 2005
    #4
  5. Robert Cooze

    Enkidu Guest

    Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    > On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >
    > hehehe..
    > Something similar caught my attention recently..
    > Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    > bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    > drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    > also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    > they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    >

    Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    of servers running parallel tasks.

    What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    not immune.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
    Enkidu, Mar 6, 2005
    #5
  6. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:
    > Robert Cooze wrote:
    >
    >> PS & OT I think that Orcon is not in the news game any more just by
    >> looking at the advertising put on my original post:( is that spam? or
    >> am I paying money to Orcon so they can put adds on my thoughts :(

    >
    >
    > Orcon outsources their news service to newsfeeds.com who add the message
    > to all their incoming posts.
    >
    > Most Orcon users now use a free tect-only service to post their
    > messages. Orcon could provide a good full-text newsfeed at almost no
    > cost to them, instead they outsource to a crappy binary provider at
    > minimal cost.
    >
    > The Other Guy

    That has been on my to do list is to find a good text news source...
    pref in nz,



    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    Robert Cooze, Mar 6, 2005
    #6
  7. Robert Cooze

    David Preece Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:

    > Orcon could provide a good full-text newsfeed at almost no
    > cost to them, instead they outsource to a crappy binary provider at
    > minimal cost.


    I always get the impression that newsfeeds of any real scale are a bitch
    to administer. There's also the bigger question of whether or not it's
    worth sucking down a 50GB/day (or however big it is) news feed for the
    100 or so users that actually use it, when you could just outsource the
    problem to someone else.

    Dave
    David Preece, Mar 6, 2005
    #7
  8. On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:42:23 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

    > Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >> On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >>
    >> hehehe..
    >> Something similar caught my attention recently..
    >> Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    >> bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    >> drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    >> also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    >> they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    > >

    > Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    > If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    > find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    > of servers running parallel tasks.
    >
    > What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    > I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    > not immune.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    I er googled for the info
    http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39175560-39020445t-20000012c
    <Q>
    As the scale of the operation increases, it introduces some particular
    problems that would not be an issue on smaller systems. For instance,
    Google uses IDE drives for all its storage. They are fast and cheap, but
    not highly reliable. To help deal with this, Google developed its own file
    system -- called the Google File System, or GFS -- which assumes an
    individual unit of storage can go away at any time either because of a
    crash, a lost disk or just because someone stepped on a cable.
    </Q>
    <Q>
    There are no disk arrays within individual PCs; instead Google stores
    every bit of data in triplicate on three machines on three racks on three
    data switches to make sure there is no single point of failure between you
    and the data.
    </Q>
    to be honest Im not sure if that second quote aids my cause or yours
    (seems they call their machines w/ever takes their fancy)
    or it could be calling them peecee's to make it easier to read fer simple
    folk like me :)

    --

    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
    Shane (aka froggy), Mar 6, 2005
    #8
  9. On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:36:45 +1300, Shane (aka froggy) wrote:

    > On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:42:23 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >>>
    >>> hehehe..
    >>> Something similar caught my attention recently..
    >>> Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    >>> bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    >>> drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    >>> also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    >>> they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    >> >

    >> Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    >> If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    >> find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    >> of servers running parallel tasks.
    >>
    >> What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    >> I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    >> not immune.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> Cliff

    >
    > I er googled for the info
    > http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39175560-39020445t-20000012c
    > <Q>
    > As the scale of the operation increases, it introduces some particular
    > problems that would not be an issue on smaller systems. For instance,
    > Google uses IDE drives for all its storage. They are fast and cheap, but
    > not highly reliable. To help deal with this, Google developed its own file
    > system -- called the Google File System, or GFS -- which assumes an
    > individual unit of storage can go away at any time either because of a
    > crash, a lost disk or just because someone stepped on a cable.
    > </Q>
    > <Q>
    > There are no disk arrays within individual PCs; instead Google stores
    > every bit of data in triplicate on three machines on three racks on three
    > data switches to make sure there is no single point of failure between you
    > and the data.
    > </Q>
    > to be honest Im not sure if that second quote aids my cause or yours
    > (seems they call their machines w/ever takes their fancy)
    > or it could be calling them peecee's to make it easier to read fer simple
    > folk like me :)


    er.. scrolling up the page a bit I found this
    <Q>
    Google runs its systems on cheap, no-name IU and 2U servers -- so cheap that
    Google refers to them as PCs. After all each one has a standard x86 PC
    processor, standard IDE hard disk, and standard PC reliability - which
    means it is expected to fail once in three years.
    </Q>
    so it appears thats why I was confused
    (and you were right)



    --

    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
    Shane (aka froggy), Mar 6, 2005
    #9
  10. Robert Cooze

    Enkidu Guest

    Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    > On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:36:45 +1300, Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:42:23 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>hehehe..
    >>>>Something similar caught my attention recently..
    >>>>Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    >>>>bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    >>>>drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    >>>>also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    >>>>they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>>Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    >>>If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    >>>find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    >>>of servers running parallel tasks.
    >>>
    >>>What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    >>>I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    >>>not immune.
    >>>
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>
    >>>Cliff

    >>
    >>I er googled for the info
    >>http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39175560-39020445t-20000012c
    >><Q>
    >>As the scale of the operation increases, it introduces some particular
    >>problems that would not be an issue on smaller systems. For instance,
    >>Google uses IDE drives for all its storage. They are fast and cheap, but
    >>not highly reliable. To help deal with this, Google developed its own file
    >>system -- called the Google File System, or GFS -- which assumes an
    >>individual unit of storage can go away at any time either because of a
    >>crash, a lost disk or just because someone stepped on a cable.
    >></Q>
    >><Q>
    >>There are no disk arrays within individual PCs; instead Google stores
    >>every bit of data in triplicate on three machines on three racks on three
    >>data switches to make sure there is no single point of failure between you
    >>and the data.
    >></Q>
    >>to be honest Im not sure if that second quote aids my cause or yours
    >>(seems they call their machines w/ever takes their fancy)
    >>or it could be calling them peecee's to make it easier to read fer simple
    >>folk like me :)

    >
    >
    > er.. scrolling up the page a bit I found this
    > <Q>
    > Google runs its systems on cheap, no-name IU and 2U servers -- so cheap that
    > Google refers to them as PCs. After all each one has a standard x86 PC
    > processor, standard IDE hard disk, and standard PC reliability - which
    > means it is expected to fail once in three years.
    > </Q>
    > so it appears thats why I was confused
    > (and you were right)
    >

    No worries. I wasn't trying to score points or anything! I
    wonder if they will or do use blade servers?

    Frankly the logistics of keeping hundreds of beige boxes
    around would be horrendous. I know from experience that just
    one beige box in a rack disrupts everything.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Barzoomian the Martian - http://barzoomian.blogspot.com
    Enkidu, Mar 6, 2005
    #10
  11. Robert Cooze wrote:
    > That has been on my to do list is to find a good text news source...
    > pref in nz,


    email me... if groups arent showing, email me with what you want.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Mar 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Robert Cooze

    Chris Hope Guest

    Enkidu wrote:

    > Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >> On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:36:45 +1300, Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:42:23 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>hehehe..
    >>>>>Something similar caught my attention recently..
    >>>>>Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    >>>>>bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount
    >>>>>of drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    >>>>>also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat
    >>>>>(which they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)
    >>>>
    >>>>Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    >>>>If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    >>>>find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    >>>>of servers running parallel tasks.
    >>>>
    >>>>What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    >>>>I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    >>>>not immune.
    >>>>
    >>>I er googled for the info
    >>>http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39175560-39020445t-20000012c
    >>><Q>
    >>>As the scale of the operation increases, it introduces some
    >>>particular problems that would not be an issue on smaller systems.
    >>>For instance, Google uses IDE drives for all its storage. They are
    >>>fast and cheap, but not highly reliable. To help deal with this,
    >>>Google developed its own file system -- called the Google File
    >>>System, or GFS -- which assumes an individual unit of storage can go
    >>>away at any time either because of a crash, a lost disk or just
    >>>because someone stepped on a cable. </Q>
    >>><Q>
    >>>There are no disk arrays within individual PCs; instead Google stores
    >>>every bit of data in triplicate on three machines on three racks on
    >>>three data switches to make sure there is no single point of failure
    >>>between you and the data.
    >>></Q>
    >>>to be honest Im not sure if that second quote aids my cause or yours
    >>>(seems they call their machines w/ever takes their fancy)
    >>>or it could be calling them peecee's to make it easier to read fer
    >>>simple folk like me :)

    >>
    >> er.. scrolling up the page a bit I found this
    >> <Q>
    >> Google runs its systems on cheap, no-name IU and 2U servers -- so
    >> cheap that
    >> Google refers to them as PCs. After all each one has a standard x86
    >> PC processor, standard IDE hard disk, and standard PC reliability -
    >> which means it is expected to fail once in three years.
    >> </Q>
    >> so it appears thats why I was confused
    >> (and you were right)
    >>

    > No worries. I wasn't trying to score points or anything! I
    > wonder if they will or do use blade servers?
    >
    > Frankly the logistics of keeping hundreds of beige boxes
    > around would be horrendous. I know from experience that just
    > one beige box in a rack disrupts everything.


    From what I have read they pretty much have open motherboards sitting in
    racks with a couple of IDE drives plugged into them sitting on some
    sort of gel base to help cool them. Not IU machines, not blades, not
    even "real" pcs.

    --
    Chris Hope - The Electric Toolbox - http://www.electrictoolbox.com/
    Chris Hope, Mar 6, 2005
    #12

  13. > Frankly the logistics of keeping hundreds of beige boxes
    > around would be horrendous. I know from experience that just
    > one beige box in a rack disrupts everything.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    they went to the trouble of building a new filesystem to cope with the
    problems (time to wave the OSS flag methinks)
    if nothing else google has shown what can be done on crap hardware with
    *nix and some talented programmers
    its a pity they wont be releaseing GFS to the world
    --

    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
    Shane (aka froggy), Mar 6, 2005
    #13
  14. Robert Cooze

    SchoolTech Guest

    In article <422a2200$1_1@127.0.0.1> in nz.comp on Sun, 06 Mar 2005
    10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze <> says...
    > In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    > of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    > about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    > using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    > another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    > about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    > sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    > network and also has a local web site on it.
    >
    > comments? and HO


    The above demonstrates a lack of knowledge as to what a server actually
    is.

    In a client server model, a client makes requests and the server
    processes the request and serves up the results.

    As an example on the internet, a web browser is a client and the server
    is what processes requests for web pages. This is especially significant
    for dynamic pages using some form of scripting, in which the script is
    executed by the server and the results outputted in the resulting web
    page file which is fed back to the client.

    Note that a server can be software, hardware or both. As an example of a
    server program and a very trivial one at that, the RFC (1413?) Protocol
    (IDENT) provides for a very simple application which receives the
    request, processes it and returns a userid.
    SchoolTech, Mar 6, 2005
    #14
  15. Robert Cooze

    Jerry Guest

    Robert Cooze wrote:
    > In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    > of teckie type in white dust coats milling around.


    I've been in a lot of commputer rooms in several countries in the 60's
    onward and never saw these teckie types in white dust coats, not a one.
    Where were they?

    Jerry
    Jerry, Mar 6, 2005
    #15
  16. On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 00:05:47 +1300, SchoolTech wrote:

    > In article <422a2200$1_1@127.0.0.1> in nz.comp on Sun, 06 Mar 2005
    > 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze <> says...
    >> In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    >> of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    >> about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    >> using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    >> another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    >> about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    >> sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    >> network and also has a local web site on it.
    >>
    >> comments? and HO

    >
    > The above demonstrates a lack of knowledge as to what a server actually
    > is.
    >
    > In a client server model, a client makes requests and the server
    > processes the request and serves up the results.
    >
    > As an example on the internet, a web browser is a client and the server
    > is what processes requests for web pages. This is especially significant
    > for dynamic pages using some form of scripting, in which the script is
    > executed by the server and the results outputted in the resulting web
    > page file which is fed back to the client.
    >
    > Note that a server can be software, hardware or both. As an example of a
    > server program and a very trivial one at that, the RFC (1413?) Protocol
    > (IDENT) provides for a very simple application which receives the
    > request, processes it and returns a userid.


    er.. theres no chance you also use the posting name of 'Divine' as well is
    there?
    --

    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked
    Shane (aka froggy), Mar 6, 2005
    #16
  17. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Robert Cooze wrote:
    >
    >> That has been on my to do list is to find a good text news source...
    >> pref in nz,

    >
    >
    > email me... if groups arent showing, email me with what you want.

    So far I haven't had too many problems reading haven't noticed missing
    stuff but in the middle of rebuilding my main machine on a bigger hard
    drive and not realy having much of a read as I would.

    instaling win 98 win xp and Linux,

    I have some educational stuff that will only run on 9X. And the kids
    machine are too crappy to run it.

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    Robert Cooze, Mar 6, 2005
    #17
  18. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    Shane (aka froggy) wrote:

    > On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:42:23 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Shane (aka froggy) wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze wrote:
    >>>
    >>>hehehe..
    >>>Something similar caught my attention recently..
    >>>Google runs ye olde pc (in clusters) with IDE drives (they were
    >>>bragging/commenting on the fact their FS has to cope with X amount of
    >>>drives failing everyday because they were IDE)
    >>>also I read somewhere yesterday they use a stripped down Red Hat (which
    >>>they have hacked/modifyed the hell out of)

    >>
    >> >

    >>Google runs rack servers. I can't remember where I read it.
    >>If one of their servers dies, they don't bother to try to
    >>find it though! They are not so much clusters as *hundreds*
    >>of servers running parallel tasks.
    >>
    >>What makes you think that disks fail because they are IDE?
    >>I've had more than enough SCSIs fail to know that they are
    >>not immune.
    >>
    >>Cheers,
    >>
    >>Cliff

    >
    >
    > I er googled for the info
    > http://www.zdnet.co.uk/print/?TYPE=story&AT=39175560-39020445t-20000012c
    > <Q>
    > As the scale of the operation increases, it introduces some particular
    > problems that would not be an issue on smaller systems. For instance,
    > Google uses IDE drives for all its storage. They are fast and cheap, but
    > not highly reliable. To help deal with this, Google developed its own file
    > system -- called the Google File System, or GFS -- which assumes an
    > individual unit of storage can go away at any time either because of a
    > crash, a lost disk or just because someone stepped on a cable.
    > </Q>
    > <Q>
    > There are no disk arrays within individual PCs; instead Google stores
    > every bit of data in triplicate on three machines on three racks on three
    > data switches to make sure there is no single point of failure between you
    > and the data.
    > </Q>
    > to be honest Im not sure if that second quote aids my cause or yours
    > (seems they call their machines w/ever takes their fancy)
    > or it could be calling them peecee's to make it easier to read fer simple
    > folk like me :)
    >

    I think that google is a case of the hole system is a server but the pc
    baced boxin aint they are just a componment.

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

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    Robert Cooze, Mar 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    Jerry wrote:

    > Robert Cooze wrote:
    >
    >> In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    >> of teckie type in white dust coats milling around.

    >
    >
    > I've been in a lot of commputer rooms in several countries in the 60's
    > onward and never saw these teckie types in white dust coats, not a one.
    > Where were they?
    >
    > Jerry


    When I started work In the NZPO I worked in a telephone exchange we wore
    poo brown dust coats. the wite ones were a seen setter popular mith of
    my yonger years.

    in 1974 I saw a old codger in a computer instlation wearing one that was
    in Glenfield on the North Shore of Auckland.

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

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    Robert Cooze, Mar 6, 2005
    #19
  20. Robert Cooze

    Robert Cooze Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:

    > In article <422a2200$1_1@127.0.0.1> in nz.comp on Sun, 06 Mar 2005
    > 10:15:25 +1300, Robert Cooze <> says...
    >
    >>In the bad old days a Server was a big room filling device with plenty
    >>of teckie type in white dust coats milling around. previous threads talk
    >>about desk tops running server app's. There are some hosting companys
    >>using shop bought machines running XXXXdist or XXXXXos of some form or
    >>another unattended in some office or NOC or converted shed. and what
    >>about some home machines I have a machine that does samba file and print
    >> sharing, Mail (bagging), it streams mp3 to other machines on the
    >>network and also has a local web site on it.
    >>
    >>comments? and HO

    >
    >
    > The above demonstrates a lack of knowledge as to what a server actually
    > is.
    >
    > In a client server model, a client makes requests and the server
    > processes the request and serves up the results.
    >
    > As an example on the internet, a web browser is a client and the server
    > is what processes requests for web pages. This is especially significant
    > for dynamic pages using some form of scripting, in which the script is
    > executed by the server and the results outputted in the resulting web
    > page file which is fed back to the client.
    >
    > Note that a server can be software, hardware or both. As an example of a
    > server program and a very trivial one at that, the RFC (1413?) Protocol
    > (IDENT) provides for a very simple application which receives the
    > request, processes it and returns a userid.


    The thread was born out of a lunc room chat about many busneses that
    have servers but a lot of them seem to be using them for much at all as
    all of the desktops seem to file and print share to each other with out
    any need of a server.

    I had seen one struck down with a BSOD I asked about it the genral
    consensis was it had been down for about two weeks sombody was going to
    get on to it some time. I was setting up a print scan system for them.



    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

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    Robert Cooze, Mar 6, 2005
    #20
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