new Star Trek-TOS still doesn't have original mono track if

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Waterperson77, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. If the listing on Amazon is correct, the new dvd season 1 boxed set of the
    original series of "Star Trek" STILL doesn't have the original mono track on
    it.

    It foes have some extra features not on the previously released single discs,
    but still doesn't have the original mono track.

    The only two listed available tracks on it are "Dolby Digital 5.1" and matrixed
    "Dolby Digital 2.0 surround".

    and no, simply listening to it in mono on a mono tv does not recover the
    original mono track. I've already tried that suggestion with the previously
    released discs when somebody in the dvd newsgroups suggested it.

    It's not the same as the original mono track, even when listening to it in
    purre mono, because the tracks have been altered when they changed it to 5.1
     
    Waterperson77, Jun 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. Waterperson77

    Duncan Guest

    On 28 Jun 2004 17:55:09 GMT, Waterperson77 wrote:

    >The only two listed available tracks on it are "Dolby Digital 5.1" and matrixed
    >"Dolby Digital 2.0 surround".


    I would hope/expect that the "Dolby Digital 2.0 surround" track is
    actually the original mono soundtrack.

    DVDs almost never include a genuine mono track - they always use a
    2.0 stereo with exactly the same audio in both tracks. If the disc
    used true mono then all the audio would come from the centre speaker
    and the front left/right would not be used. This is not what
    consumers expect so by putting the mono audio as a "stereo" track it
    then works properly both for people with mono TVs and those with home
    cinema systems.
     
    Duncan, Jun 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. Waterperson77

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Duncan" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I would hope/expect that the "Dolby Digital 2.0 surround" track is
    > actually the original mono soundtrack.
    >
    > DVDs almost never include a genuine mono track - they always use a
    > 2.0 stereo with exactly the same audio in both tracks. If the disc
    > used true mono then all the audio would come from the centre speaker
    > and the front left/right would not be used. This is not what
    > consumers expect so by putting the mono audio as a "stereo" track it
    > then works properly both for people with mono TVs and those with home
    > cinema systems.


    While it's possible that this *could* be what the specs mean, it is also
    possible that the 2.0 track may just be a stereo downconversion of the
    5.1 remix, and still not the original mono soundtrack.
     
    Joshua Zyber, Jun 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Waterperson77

    Mark W Guest


    >
    > and no, simply listening to it in mono on a mono tv does not recover the
    > original mono track. I've already tried that suggestion with the
    > previously
    > released discs when somebody in the dvd newsgroups suggested it.
    >
    > It's not the same as the original mono track, even when listening to it in
    > purre mono, because the tracks have been altered when they changed it to
    > 5.1
    >
    >



    Put an earplug in one ear then.
     
    Mark W, Jun 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Waterperson77

    Rutgar Guest

    On 28 Jun 2004 17:55:09 GMT,
    (Waterperson77) wrote:

    >If the listing on Amazon is correct, the new dvd season 1 boxed set of the
    >original series of "Star Trek" STILL doesn't have the original mono track on
    >it.
    >
    >It foes have some extra features not on the previously released single discs,
    >but still doesn't have the original mono track.
    >
    >The only two listed available tracks on it are "Dolby Digital 5.1" and matrixed
    >"Dolby Digital 2.0 surround".
    >
    >and no, simply listening to it in mono on a mono tv does not recover the
    >original mono track. I've already tried that suggestion with the previously
    >released discs when somebody in the dvd newsgroups suggested it.
    >
    >It's not the same as the original mono track, even when listening to it in
    >purre mono, because the tracks have been altered when they changed it to 5.1
    >



    If they've upgraded the sound track to DD 5.1, why on earth would you
    want a mono track included? I for one wouldn't want to hear all of
    the audio coming only out of my center channel speaker.

    - Rutgar
     
    Rutgar, Jun 29, 2004
    #5
  6. Waterperson77

    jayembee Guest

    says...

    > If they've upgraded the sound track to DD 5.1, why on earth would you
    > want a mono track included? I for one wouldn't want to hear all of
    > the audio coming only out of my center channel speaker.


    For two reasons:

    (1) The monoaural track is how it was originally. I don't want the soundtrack
    "reformatted to fit my speakers" any more than I want the picture "reformatted
    to fit my screen".

    (2) If they're the same DD5.1 tracks that were on the previous single-disc
    releases, they suck. Badly engineered. I prefer the mono soundtracks on my
    LDs to the DD5.1 soundtracks on the DVDs.

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Jun 30, 2004
    #6
  7. Waterperson77

    Rutgar Guest

    On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:36:47 GMT, jayembee
    <> wrote:

    > says...
    >
    >> If they've upgraded the sound track to DD 5.1, why on earth would you
    >> want a mono track included? I for one wouldn't want to hear all of
    >> the audio coming only out of my center channel speaker.

    >
    >For two reasons:
    >
    >(1) The monoaural track is how it was originally. I don't want the soundtrack
    >"reformatted to fit my speakers" any more than I want the picture "reformatted
    >to fit my screen".


    Well, since they didn't broadcast in anything but mono, when TOS was
    first aired, then of course it was originally that way. I still
    wouldn't want to watch modern DVD's with all of the sound coming out
    of only my center channel.
    >
    >(2) If they're the same DD5.1 tracks that were on the previous single-disc
    >releases, they suck. Badly engineered. I prefer the mono soundtracks on my
    >LDs to the DD5.1 soundtracks on the DVDs.
    >

    Well, if the DD5.1 tracks suck, then that's one thing. It should be
    fixed then. I have one movie on DVD that only has the mono
    soundtrack (S.O.B., I think it is), and It drove me nuts trying to
    watch the film, with all of the sound coming out of the center channel
    only. At the very least, it should have at least been directed to
    the right and left mains.

    - Rutgar
     
    Rutgar, Jun 30, 2004
    #7
  8. Waterperson77

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Rutgar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >(1) The monoaural track is how it was originally. I don't want the

    soundtrack
    > >"reformatted to fit my speakers" any more than I want the picture

    "reformatted
    > >to fit my screen".

    >
    > Well, since they didn't broadcast in anything but mono, when TOS was
    > first aired, then of course it was originally that way.


    Yeah, and back in the 20s and 30s they mainly only had black & white
    film. Doesn't mean I want those old movies colorized.
     
    Joshua Zyber, Jun 30, 2004
    #8
  9. Waterperson77

    Invid Fan Guest

    In article <>, Rutgar
    <> wrote:

    > Well, if the DD5.1 tracks suck, then that's one thing. It should be
    > fixed then. I have one movie on DVD that only has the mono
    > soundtrack (S.O.B., I think it is), and It drove me nuts trying to
    > watch the film, with all of the sound coming out of the center channel
    > only. At the very least, it should have at least been directed to
    > the right and left mains.
    >

    Makes me feel all of my 34.5 years, to hear that some people can't
    stand only one speaker :) In the olden days, given that the people
    speaking were right in front of us we expected the sound to come from
    there!

    --
    Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
    'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
    -'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
     
    Invid Fan, Jun 30, 2004
    #9
  10. Waterperson77

    jayembee Guest

    says...

    > jayembee <> wrote:
    >
    >> (1) The monoaural track is how it was originally. I don't want the
    >> soundtrack "reformatted to fit my speakers" any more than I want
    >> the picture "reformatted to fit my screen".

    >
    > Well, since they didn't broadcast in anything but mono, when TOS was
    > first aired, then of course it was originally that way. I still
    > wouldn't want to watch modern DVD's with all of the sound coming out
    > of only my center channel.


    If that's what you want, be my guest. But you asked why anyone would
    want a mono track instead of a 5.1 track, and I explained why.

    Be that as it may, the point is that the soundtrack was *mixed* to be
    heard from one speaker. Changing it simply to satisfy people with 5.1
    audio systems is turning it into something it's not. That's no different
    than pan-&-scanning a widescreen film, or colorizing a black-&-white film.

    Speaking personally, if Paramount wants to have DD5.1 soundtracks on
    all of the episodes, they are welcome to do so, as long as they also
    include the original monaural track as an option for those of us who
    prefer it that way.

    -- jayembee
     
    jayembee, Jun 30, 2004
    #10
  11. >Put an earplug in one ear then.
    >


    I just got through saying that that does not work.

    Putting an earplug in one ear STILL does NOT recover the parts of the sounds on
    the original mono track that are missing in the 5.1 sounddtrack.

    It STILL does NOT recover the missing instruments or missing singers that were
    either completelyt drowned out (or never mixed into the 5.1 track in the first
    place) that were present in the original mono track.
     
    Waterperson77, Jun 30, 2004
    #11
  12. >f they've upgraded the sound track to DD 5.1, why on earth would you
    >want a mono track included?


    for the same reason almost no one in the newsgroup wants widescreen movies in
    full screen.

    It severely compromises the work of the original artists.

    In Star Trek 5.1 sound, there are MISSING sounds that were present in the
    original mono track.

    They are missing because they are drowned out completely by the sounds they
    used for the 5.1 track, even when listening in mono.

    That's why the ORIGINAL MONO track SHOULD be included on there.

    however, it isn't on the existing discs, and from the specs listed on Amazon,
    not on the upcoming season sets either.
     
    Waterperson77, Jun 30, 2004
    #12
  13. and not only are there missing sounds on the 5.1 tracks of "Star Trek" the
    original series that was there in the original mono, but there's also sounds in
    the 5.1 track that were not in the original mono.
     
    Waterperson77, Jun 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Waterperson77

    Ronald Cole Guest

    "Joshua Zyber" <> writes:
    > "Duncan" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I would hope/expect that the "Dolby Digital 2.0 surround" track is
    >> actually the original mono soundtrack.
    >>
    >> DVDs almost never include a genuine mono track - they always use a
    >> 2.0 stereo with exactly the same audio in both tracks. If the disc
    >> used true mono then all the audio would come from the centre speaker
    >> and the front left/right would not be used. This is not what
    >> consumers expect so by putting the mono audio as a "stereo" track it
    >> then works properly both for people with mono TVs and those with home
    >> cinema systems.

    >
    > While it's possible that this *could* be what the specs mean, it is also
    > possible that the 2.0 track may just be a stereo downconversion of the
    > 5.1 remix, and still not the original mono soundtrack.


    Guess I'll be waiting for a review before I consider replacing my LDs
    with these DVD boxed sets.

    --
    Forte International, P.O. Box 1412, Ridgecrest, CA 93556-1412
    Ronald Cole <> Phone: (760) 499-9142
    President, CEO Fax: (760) 499-9152
    My GPG fingerprint: C3AF 4BE9 BEA6 F1C2 B084 4A88 8851 E6C8 69E3 B00B
     
    Ronald Cole, Jun 30, 2004
    #14
  15. Rutgar <> wrote:

    > Well, since they didn't broadcast in anything but mono, when TOS was
    > first aired, then of course it was originally that way. I still
    > wouldn't want to watch modern DVD's with all of the sound coming out
    > of only my center channel.


    Sounds like a design flaw in the receiver to me. It should be trivial for
    there to be a mode for mono material that would use the left and right
    channels.
     
    Jake Patterson, Jun 30, 2004
    #15
  16. On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:36:47 GMT, jayembee
    <> wrote:

    > says...
    >
    >> If they've upgraded the sound track to DD 5.1, why on earth would you
    >> want a mono track included? I for one wouldn't want to hear all of
    >> the audio coming only out of my center channel speaker.

    >
    >For two reasons:
    >
    >(1) The monoaural track is how it was originally. I don't want the soundtrack
    >"reformatted to fit my speakers" any more than I want the picture "reformatted
    >to fit my screen".
    >
    >(2) If they're the same DD5.1 tracks that were on the previous single-disc
    >releases, they suck. Badly engineered. I prefer the mono soundtracks on my
    >LDs to the DD5.1 soundtracks on the DVDs.
    >
    >-- jayembee


    The new DVD of SLEEPING DOGS has audio options of "Dolby Digital 1.0"
    and "Dolby Digital 5.1 surround". This is rather funny since this 1977
    film was recorded in non-dolby mono. I have a number of DVDs that have
    dolby digital stereo , although the film was done in standard mono. I
    suspect that the distributors are trying to appeal to (ignorant)
    consumer demands. However, given that my home theatre amp has various
    mode outputs, I have no problem with this silliness.

    Charles
    nzvideos.org
     
    Charles Eggen, Jun 30, 2004
    #16
  17. Waterperson77

    Mark W Guest

    "Waterperson77" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >Put an earplug in one ear then.
    >>

    >
    > I just got through saying that that does not work.
    >
    > Putting an earplug in one ear STILL does NOT recover the parts of the
    > sounds on
    > the original mono track that are missing in the 5.1 sounddtrack.
    >
    > It STILL does NOT recover the missing instruments or missing singers that
    > were
    > either completelyt drowned out (or never mixed into the 5.1 track in the
    > first
    > place) that were present in the original mono track.
    >
    >



    I was only joking! But then I didn't know Star Trek was a musical.....
     
    Mark W, Jul 1, 2004
    #17
  18. Waterperson77

    Mark W Guest

    "Waterperson77" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > and not only are there missing sounds on the 5.1 tracks of "Star Trek"
    > the
    > original series that was there in the original mono, but there's also
    > sounds in
    > the 5.1 track that were not in the original mono.
    >
    >




    This is intriguing - what sounds do you notice that have been removed, and
    what sounds have been added?
     
    Mark W, Jul 1, 2004
    #18
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