New scam from Brooklyn dealer

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Don Wiss, May 4, 2005.

  1. Don Wiss

    Don Wiss Guest

    From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store Fronts,
    I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    searching.

    I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits for
    a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He may
    have been okay until he saw the picture.

    Anyway, he writes about his experience trying to buy a D70 from
    royalcamera.com. This is one of the names that CCI uses. He writes:

    "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."

    Now I doubt any aftermarket firmware exists for the D70.

    Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
     
    Don Wiss, May 4, 2005
    #1
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  2. Don Wiss

    Ron Guest

    Don:

    Just spent a half hour reading reviews of digitalliquidators.com. Feels
    like I've been in a sewer. I don't need to check out Broaway and some of
    the other scam artists to know what I will find.

    About 30 years ago the leading photography magazines began to refuse
    advertising from companies like these, yet today many of them are
    prominent advertisers in several digital photography publications
    including Shutterbug, which photographers often rely on. It seems to me
    that the best tactic would be to start putting pressure on them to
    certify that their advertisers meet basic codes of ethics and
    reliability -- some very fundamental truth in advertising. it's pretty
    hard to stop what is sold on the web, but there's no reason why material
    sent through the US mail should be filled with advertisements from
    companies which stoop to the bait and switch and simply dishonest
    practices we're finding with these guys. A few hundred angry digital
    camera buyers could make a difference. It would also be good if the
    reliable dealers like B&H could be persuaded to threaten to pull their
    ads. After all these sleeze merchants are harming the entire industry.

    /ron

    Don Wiss wrote:
    > From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store Fronts,
    > I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    > placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    > searching.
    >
    > I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits for
    > a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He may
    > have been okay until he saw the picture.
    >
    > Anyway, he writes about his experience trying to buy a D70 from
    > royalcamera.com. This is one of the names that CCI uses. He writes:
    >
    > "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    > FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    > firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."
    >
    > Now I doubt any aftermarket firmware exists for the D70.
    >
    > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
     
    Ron, May 4, 2005
    #2
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  3. "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    news:...

    > "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    > FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    > firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."


    Very creative scam. Reminds me of some of the stuff that car dealers try to
    pull. The "salesperson retirement fee" was one of my favorites.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 4, 2005
    #3
  4. Don Wiss

    mort Guest

    I remember some years ago, trying to buy a Polaroid instant camera. When the
    salesman asked me if I wanted to buy a booklet of film developing and printing
    vouchers for the Polaroid, then I knew it was time to say so long.

    Morton



    "Steven M. Scharf" wrote:

    > "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    > > FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    > > firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."

    >
    > Very creative scam. Reminds me of some of the stuff that car dealers try to
    > pull. The "salesperson retirement fee" was one of my favorites.
     
    mort, May 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Don Wiss

    james Guest

    In article <>,
    Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

    >From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store Fronts,
    >I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    >placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    >searching.


    You paint "Brooklyn dealers" with a pretty broad brush. Some of the
    best online shopping experiences I've ever had were from an outfit in
    Brooklyn, B&H.

    I think you're talking about Digital Liquidators. Judging from the
    harsh reviews (whose accuracy I do not doubt), I wonder why nobody has
    followed through and tried to prosecute for fraud? Complaining is one
    thing, and writing bad online reviews is another thing, but if the
    stories I've read are true, this sounds like it could be an actual
    criminal case of a fraudulent racket. Specifically, they quote one
    price when the order is made, and another much higher price appears on
    the invoice. And the misrepresent the country of origin of the product.
    And they unbundle items like batteries and software CD's, while still
    representing the product as a specific manufacturer's item. All of
    these things, if done on a mail order outside of New York, could be the
    kind of thing that can lead to huge fines or prison for the people
    responsible.

    I suspect they just barely have their toe on the side of what's legal,
    though. I have trouble doing business with New Yorkers in the best of
    circumstances. (The brusque manner just doesn't work for me.)
    But *any* salesperson who gets the LEAST BIT aggressive with me, loses
    my business on the spot. I mean, I draw that line at "Can I help you?"
    twice, or, continuing to suggest an extended warranty after I've said
    "no." The stuff these guys are reported to have done would never have
    gotten past my tolerance level for salespeople. Call to confirm order?
    Okay, but the first hint of upselling, or anything else that's not
    simply a confirmation of the thing I ordered, and a tracking number,
    would set off my annoyance reaction, if not alarms.


    >I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits for
    >a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He may
    >have been okay until he saw the picture.


    What picture?

    >Anyway, he writes about his experience trying to buy a D70 from
    >royalcamera.com. This is one of the names that CCI uses. He writes:
    >
    >"What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    >FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    >firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."
    >
    >Now I doubt any aftermarket firmware exists for the D70.


    Are they an authorized Nikon dealer? This sounds like the exact kind of
    thing that should cause them to *stop* being a Nikon dealer.
     
    james, May 5, 2005
    #5
  6. "james" <> wrote in message
    news:Fyfee.15718$_K.4954@fed1read03...

    > You paint "Brooklyn dealers" with a pretty broad brush. Some of the
    > best online shopping experiences I've ever had were from an outfit in
    > Brooklyn, B&H.


    B&H is in Manhattan.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Don Wiss

    markemski Guest

    > "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    > FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera.


    once they asked me what kind of lens I want add to Minolta 7Hi "body only"
    order at this moment I just hang up. Never happened such a think with B&H
    Photo

    cheers :)) emski
     
    markemski, May 5, 2005
    #7
  8. Don Wiss

    Don Wiss Guest

    On Thu, 05 May 2005 02:29:57 GMT, (james) wrote:

    >>I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits for
    >>a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He may
    >>have been okay until he saw the picture.

    >
    >What picture?


    I gather you are new here. I have pictures on the web of almost all
    Brooklyn camera dealers, and many of the ones in Manhattan. Since I live in
    Brooklyn, the Manhattan ones are a pain to get. And often not very
    interesting, as many are offices within a large office building. But here
    in Brooklyn they are usually store fronts. If you don't remember the URL,
    simply put "Brooklyn Store Fronts" (quotes not needed) into Google and it
    will be the first one listed. Or click here:

    http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

    digitalliquidators.com is nothing but Broadway Photo. And Broadway Photo
    happens to be THE most popular picture in the album. See it here:

    http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0006.htm

    This was one of my earlier pictures. Those fellows weren't paying any
    attention to my taking their picture. Now I am well known among the
    Brooklyn dealers. If I'm seen taking a picture they know my name. And once
    I was chased by a fellow in a car that took my picture and told me not to
    put their picture up. But he wouldn't tell me who he was, so I didn't know
    which to not put up. Hence all are up.

    The most important picture I need to take is Cambridge Camera. They had
    been in Manhattan but moved to Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Not as convenient as
    the ones located in Borough Park. But I will make it up there in the next
    couple weeks.

    Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
     
    Don Wiss, May 5, 2005
    #8
  9. Don Wiss

    SamSez Guest

    "james" <> wrote in message
    news:Fyfee.15718$_K.4954@fed1read03...
    > In article <>,
    > Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:
    >
    > >From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store Fronts,
    > >I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    > >placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    > >searching.

    >
    > You paint "Brooklyn dealers" with a pretty broad brush. Some of the
    > best online shopping experiences I've ever had were from an outfit in
    > Brooklyn, B&H.
    >


    I buy from B&H all the time -- but only on the days of the week when they're in
    Manhattan....
     
    SamSez, May 5, 2005
    #9
  10. Don Wiss

    Mark² Guest

    "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store
    > Fronts,
    > I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    > placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    > searching.
    >
    > I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits
    > for
    > a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He
    > may
    > have been okay until he saw the picture.
    >
    > Anyway, he writes about his experience trying to buy a D70 from
    > royalcamera.com. This is one of the names that CCI uses. He writes:
    >
    > "What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    > FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    > firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."
    >
    > Now I doubt any aftermarket firmware exists for the D70.


    That is indeed a new one.

    Unfortunately, there are enough newbies with money to be sucked into such
    complete absurdities.

    Nikon should be notified of this.
    This practice might actually be actionable, because it directly and
    deceivingly implies that Nikon doesn't equip their gear with firmware--a lie
    that surely Nikon doesn't want spread--even to nitwits who don't know any
    better.
     
    Mark², May 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Don Wiss

    Ron Hunter Guest

    mort wrote:
    > I remember some years ago, trying to buy a Polaroid instant camera. When the
    > salesman asked me if I wanted to buy a booklet of film developing and printing
    > vouchers for the Polaroid, then I knew it was time to say so long.
    >
    > Morton
    >
    >
    >
    > "Steven M. Scharf" wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>
    >>>"What amazed me was the guy at royalcamera.com actually asked me what
    >>>FIRMWARE I wanted on the camera. The price was over $200 to get the Nikon
    >>>firmware vs. some aftermarket firmware. Quickly canceled my order."

    >>
    >>Very creative scam. Reminds me of some of the stuff that car dealers try to
    >>pull. The "salesperson retirement fee" was one of my favorites.

    >
    >

    Right up there with free gas for life, for your electric car.... Grin.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, May 5, 2005
    #11
  12. Mark² wrote:

    > "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store
    >>Fronts,
    >>I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    >>placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    >>searching.
    >>
    >>I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he waits
    >>for
    >>a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names. He
    >>may
    >>have been okay until he saw the picture.


    snip

    Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an order
    with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South
    Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit card.
    YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides of
    the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    My fingers are crossed !
    Bernard
     
    Bernard Rother, May 5, 2005
    #12
  13. Don Wiss

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Bernard Rother <> writes:
    > Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an
    > order with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to
    > South Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit
    > card. YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both
    > sides of the card to them for verification. I would have thought you
    > need verification first and THEN make the deduction.


    They were closed for religious holidays for the past week.
     
    Paul Rubin, May 5, 2005
    #13
  14. Don Wiss

    Mark Roberts Guest

    Don Wiss <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote:

    >http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
    >
    >...once I was chased by a fellow in a car that took my picture and told me
    >not to put their picture up. But he wouldn't tell me who he was, so I
    >didn't know which to not put up.


    Great story. Kind of sums up the way these people think and work.
    Thanks for your web page, BTW. Good idea and very educational. :)

    --
    Mark Roberts
    Photography and writing
    www.robertstech.com
     
    Mark Roberts, May 5, 2005
    #14
  15. On 05 May 2005 03:49:01 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , Paul Rubin
    <http://> in <>
    wrote:

    >Bernard Rother <> writes:
    >> Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an
    >> order with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to
    >> South Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit
    >> card. YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both
    >> sides of the card to them for verification. I would have thought you
    >> need verification first and THEN make the deduction.


    The verification is if there are problems later. It is easier than you
    think to get an electronic transaction to go through, but if you don't
    have the supporting information it can get pulled afterwards.

    >They were closed for religious holidays for the past week.


    I am sure that their website made that clear as well.


    --
    Matt Silberstein

    All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
    a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
    there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
    end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
    or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
     
    Matt Silberstein, May 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Don Wiss

    C Wright Guest

    On 5/5/05 3:51 AM, in article d5cmre$lgi$, "Bernard
    Rother" <> wrote:


    > Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an order
    > with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South
    > Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit card.
    > YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides of
    > the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    > verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    > My fingers are crossed !
    > Bernard


    Don't worry, if you are dealing with B&H they will ship the order! It is
    standard practice for B&H to hit your credit card immediately, often even on
    back ordered products. This is somewhat counter to the practice of many
    other merchants to not hit your credit card until your order ships (at least
    that is what they say!). B&H, however, is up front about this - at least
    they have told me that they will charge the card right away. And, they have
    always shipped the goods!
    Chuck
     
    C Wright, May 5, 2005
    #16
  17. Bernard Rother wrote:

    >
    > Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an

    order
    > with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South


    > Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit

    card.
    > YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides

    of
    > the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    > verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    > My fingers are crossed !
    > Bernard


    B&H is fine. In my experience, I'd be more worried about getting
    something of value through the SA Post Office...)

    /S
     
    Scarlet Pimpernel, May 5, 2005
    #17
  18. Don Wiss

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Bernard Rother wrote:
    > Mark² wrote:
    >
    >> "Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> From the e-mail link at the bottom of my web page of Brooklyn Store
    >>> Fronts,
    >>> I get an e-mail every couple days. Often from people that have already
    >>> placed an order from a Brooklyn dealer, then afterwards do some web
    >>> searching.
    >>>
    >>> I just got an e-mail from a fellow that is biting his nails as he
    >>> waits for
    >>> a lens from digitalliquidators.com, one of the Broadway Photo names.
    >>> He may
    >>> have been okay until he saw the picture.

    >
    >
    > snip
    >
    > Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an order
    > with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South
    > Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit card.
    > YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides of
    > the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    > verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    > My fingers are crossed !
    > Bernard

    I would be concerned as well, since if they have already charged your
    card, they have NO NEED for any further verification, at least none I
    can see. Companies that do international business do, however, have
    some rather unusual challenges, and government regulations, to deal with.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, May 5, 2005
    #18
  19. Don Wiss

    Ron Hunter Guest

    C Wright wrote:
    > On 5/5/05 3:51 AM, in article d5cmre$lgi$, "Bernard
    > Rother" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an order
    >>with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South
    >>Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit card.
    >>YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides of
    >>the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    >>verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    >>My fingers are crossed !
    >>Bernard

    >
    >
    > Don't worry, if you are dealing with B&H they will ship the order! It is
    > standard practice for B&H to hit your credit card immediately, often even on
    > back ordered products. This is somewhat counter to the practice of many
    > other merchants to not hit your credit card until your order ships (at least
    > that is what they say!). B&H, however, is up front about this - at least
    > they have told me that they will charge the card right away. And, they have
    > always shipped the goods!
    > Chuck
    >

    It is generally considered a suspicious business practice to charge a
    card until the product is ready to ship. They CAN run a 'preapproval',
    however, which will expire in a few days if the actual transaction
    doesn't happen.


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, May 5, 2005
    #19
  20. "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
    news:WCuee.9996$...
    >C Wright wrote:
    >> On 5/5/05 3:51 AM, in article d5cmre$lgi$, "Bernard
    >> Rother" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Now I'm starting to get a little worried. On 22 April I placed an order
    >>>with B&H for a Sigma 18-125 lens for $323,00 ( incl. postage to South
    >>>Africa ) The following day the money was deducted from my credit card.
    >>>YESTERDAY, 10 days later, they ask me to email a copy of both sides of
    >>>the card to them for verification. I would have thought you need
    >>>verification first and THEN make the deduction.
    >>>My fingers are crossed !
    >>>Bernard

    >>
    >>
    >> Don't worry, if you are dealing with B&H they will ship the order! It is
    >> standard practice for B&H to hit your credit card immediately, often even
    >> on
    >> back ordered products. This is somewhat counter to the practice of many
    >> other merchants to not hit your credit card until your order ships (at
    >> least
    >> that is what they say!). B&H, however, is up front about this - at least
    >> they have told me that they will charge the card right away. And, they
    >> have
    >> always shipped the goods!
    >> Chuck
    >>

    > It is generally considered a suspicious business practice to charge a card
    > until the product is ready to ship. They CAN run a 'preapproval',
    > however, which will expire in a few days if the actual transaction doesn't
    > happen.


    It also might be illegal.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, May 5, 2005
    #20
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