new pc shuts down unexpectedly

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Brendon, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. Brendon

    Brendon Guest

    Built a brand new PC last week, installed SP2, all updates, and now for some
    reason, it shuts down after being on for about 5 mins. Could it be anything
    wrong with mobo, or processor? Specs as follows:
    Sempron 3000+, Gigabyte GA-K8VM800M, 512mb lemel ram, 80gb western digital
    drive (ide). No cdrom, just bare basics machine.

    Have checked event logs, nothing shows up as critical, and no warnings
    either.
    How can I tell what is going on? Any software I can install to let me know
    of any incompatabilities of the hardware?

    Thanks,
    Brendon
    Brendon, Apr 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Brendon

    EMB Guest

    Brendon wrote:
    > Built a brand new PC last week, installed SP2, all updates, and now for some
    > reason, it shuts down after being on for about 5 mins. Could it be anything
    > wrong with mobo, or processor? Specs as follows:
    > Sempron 3000+, Gigabyte GA-K8VM800M, 512mb lemel ram, 80gb western digital
    > drive (ide). No cdrom, just bare basics machine.
    >
    > Have checked event logs, nothing shows up as critical, and no warnings
    > either.
    > How can I tell what is going on? Any software I can install to let me know
    > of any incompatabilities of the hardware?


    I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.


    --
    EMB
    EMB, Apr 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. Brendon

    Brendon Guest

    Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then shot
    down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared a healthy
    does of that on. Is there any way to confirm this may be the issue?
    Oh, it also packs a real sad and freezes when trying to install new
    software. Requires a forced restart. :-(
    Cheers
    Brendon

    "EMB" <> wrote in message
    news:e2169o$29v$...
    > I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    > like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    > --
    > EMB
    Brendon, Apr 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Brendon

    EMB Guest

    Brendon wrote:
    > Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then shot
    > down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared a healthy
    > does of that on. Is there any way to confirm this may be the issue?
    > Oh, it also packs a real sad and freezes when trying to install new
    > software. Requires a forced restart. :-(
    > Cheers
    > Brendon


    First thought - grease OR tape, not both.

    Second thought - have you got the heatsink mounted correctly (it's not
    on back to front is it)?


    As a really simple test, boot up and go into the BIOS, then go to the
    "PC Health" or whatever page that shows voltages and temps and see what
    the CPU temp does. As it should only be idling doing this I'd expect to
    see the temp stay nice and low - if it exceeds about 50 degrees doing
    this then you almost certainly have a problem.

    --
    EMB
    EMB, Apr 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Brendon

    Brendon Guest

    OK, will look into this after work tonight.
    Cheers for the tips.
    Brendon, Apr 18, 2006
    #5
  6. Brendon

    bambam Guest

    "Brendon" <> wrote in
    news:L2V0g.13694$:

    > Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then
    > shot down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared
    > a healthy does of that on.


    Here is a good instruction page, for help with applying thermal compound-

    http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm
    bambam, Apr 18, 2006
    #6
  7. Brendon

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Brendon wrote:
    > OK, will look into this after work tonight.
    > Cheers for the tips.


    Yeah, what EMB said. Either/or with the Thermal Interface Material, and then
    just the thinnest layer possible. Those pads are designed to melt and have
    the HS clamp pressure force out most of the material so that there's
    basically none between the die and the HS. Just enough to fill gaps. Using
    paste as well may have stopped this happening and the TIM is acting as an
    insulator instead of a conductor. Also, God alone knows what the
    consequences of mixing two different compounds are.

    Another thing I'd be looking at is case temp. It could be a problem,
    possibly in combination with TIM problems. The 5 minutes thing makes me
    think that maybe it's not *just* a TIM problem, that would possibly show up
    more quickly, although that is most certainly not helping. This being a
    "basic" machine maybe case cooling has been overlooked?

    Third thing.... PSU maybe. IME one of the most common causes of this type of
    problem *after* heat has been ruled out.

    Definitely take that HS back off, clean it, and the die off thouroughly (use
    a lint-free rag soaked in meths if you have to) and add a *small* amount of
    the paste, just a paper-thin layer, to the die. You can also rub some paste
    into the area of the HS that will contact the die, then lightly wipe excess
    of again. If the HS has machining marks on it this will help fill the
    grooves. When applying or rubbing in like this have your finger-tip cobered
    with cling-film to keep oils from your skin from contaminating the TIM.
    Also, some of them are toxic.

    Good luck.
    --
    ~Shaun~
    ~misfit~, Apr 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Brendon

    Brendon Guest

    Thanks Shaun, I'll take a close look at these suggestions tonight.
    Cheers
    Brendon
    Brendon, Apr 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Brendon

    Peter Guest

    EMB wrote:

    >
    > I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    > like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    >
    >

    And keep it out of direct sunlight, the solar gain can be terrific.
    Peter, Apr 18, 2006
    #9
  10. Brendon

    Brendon Guest

    Thanks for the instructions. Great link.
    Brendon

    "bambam" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns97A9890D55FB097hk66302sneakemailc@127.0.0.1...
    > "Brendon" <> wrote in
    > news:L2V0g.13694$:
    >
    >> Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then
    >> shot down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared
    >> a healthy does of that on.

    >
    > Here is a good instruction page, for help with applying thermal compound-
    >
    > http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm
    >
    Brendon, Apr 18, 2006
    #10
  11. Brendon

    Invisible Guest

    On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:58:21 +1200, "Brendon" <> wrote:

    >Built a brand new PC last week, installed SP2, all updates, and now for some
    >reason, it shuts down after being on for about 5 mins.


    Was it ok before all the XP updates? One from last week has caused a lot of
    weird problems KB908531
    Invisible, Apr 18, 2006
    #11
  12. "EMB" <> wrote in message
    news:e2169o$29v$...
    > Brendon wrote:
    >> Built a brand new PC last week, installed SP2, all updates, and now for
    >> some reason, it shuts down after being on for about 5 mins. Could it be
    >> anything wrong with mobo, or processor? Specs as follows:
    >> Sempron 3000+, Gigabyte GA-K8VM800M, 512mb lemel ram, 80gb western
    >> digital drive (ide). No cdrom, just bare basics machine.
    >>
    >> Have checked event logs, nothing shows up as critical, and no warnings
    >> either.
    >> How can I tell what is going on? Any software I can install to let me
    >> know of any incompatabilities of the hardware?

    >
    > I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    > like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    >
    >
    > --
    > EMB


    After only 5 minutes? How can heat be a problem after only 5 minutes? (i
    am not an expert though)
    news.xtra.co.nz, Apr 18, 2006
    #12
  13. Brendon

    Shane Guest

    news.xtra.co.nz wrote:


    > After only 5 minutes? How can heat be a problem after only 5 minutes?
    > (i am not an expert though)



    There is a video floating about, showing older cpus (Intel) starting little
    fires in under 45 seconds when the fans are switched off
    (At the time of the video AMD had something that stopped them
    overoverheating and doing the same)

    --
    Rule 6: There is no Rule 6.
    Shane, Apr 18, 2006
    #13
  14. Brendon

    Mercury Guest

    > After only 5 minutes? How can heat be a problem after only 5 minutes?
    > (i am not an expert though)


    4 seconds or so is all it takes.


    The THG video showed AMD CPU's melting in a few seconds and Intel throttling
    back and surviving...
    Mercury, Apr 18, 2006
    #14
  15. Brendon

    Brendan Guest

    On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:42 +1200, Brendon wrote:

    > and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared a healthy
    > does of that on


    DONT put a 'healthy dose' on it!

    It will then act as an INSULATOR rather than transfer the heat!

    You need only a skim coat on it, or less. If it's a millimeter thick it's
    TOO thick.

    Try to avoid that white silicone stuff too - it dries out and crumbles,
    leaving you with no effective heatsink.

    Remove that thermal pad as well, and polish both surfaces clean. Then apply
    the paste.

    Make sure the case has good through flow of cool air. E.g. don't be putting
    it in a cubby hole.

    --

    .... Brendan

    #365072 +(4643)- [X]

    <xxxGirlygirlxxx> Thank you for listening to me.
    <xxxGirlygirlxxx> You know your a really good listener.
    <xxxGirlygirlxxx> Sweety please say something.
    <Sandaedar> Ok I'm back.


    Note: All my comments are copyright 18/04/2006 11:07:06 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
    Brendan, Apr 18, 2006
    #15
  16. Brendon

    Brendan Guest

    On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:58:21 +1200, Brendon wrote:

    > How can I tell what is going on? Any software I can install to let me know
    > of any incompatabilities of the hardware?


    Check the BIOS power settings - maybe something amiss.

    Check the CPU is not overheating, e.g. heatsink is not on properly.

    Check voltages (via bios) are what they should be.

    Remove ALL cards/peripherals except video while you do it.

    Process of elimination.

    Test cpu and ram in known good machine.

    At a guess, if it's not anything simple, I would think the MB is faulty.

    --

    .... Brendan

    #127148 +(3697)- [X]

    <Ich> I have passed the transitional stage of internet geekhood
    <Ich> I was cashiering at work today, and was punching in the code for
    plums, which is 4040.
    <Ich> and the 0 key doesn't work this well, so I punched it in wrong.
    <Ich> and the machine flashed up "Item Not Found: 404"
    <Ich> and I actually laughed out loud


    Note: All my comments are copyright 18/04/2006 10:38:33 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
    Brendan, Apr 18, 2006
    #16
  17. Brendon

    Andrew Guest

    Mercury wrote:
    >> After only 5 minutes? How can heat be a problem after only 5 minutes?
    >> (i am not an expert though)

    >
    > 4 seconds or so is all it takes.
    >
    >
    > The THG video showed AMD CPU's melting in a few seconds and Intel throttling
    > back and surviving...
    >
    >

    Thats correct, They all throttle back/shut down these days
    Andrew, Apr 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Brendon

    GraB Guest

    On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:42 +1200, "Brendon" <>
    wrote:

    >Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then shot
    >down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared a healthy
    >does of that on. Is there any way to confirm this may be the issue?
    >Oh, it also packs a real sad and freezes when trying to install new
    >software. Requires a forced restart. :-(
    >Cheers
    >Brendon
    >
    >"EMB" <> wrote in message
    >news:e2169o$29v$...
    >> I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    >> like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    >> --
    >> EMB

    >

    The role of the thermal tape/compound is to fill in the gaps between
    the surface of the CPU and heatsink. Ideally there should be as much
    direct contact between those surfaces for best cooling so the paste
    should be the thinnest layer possible. The tape on the heatsink melts
    and squeezes out, becoming thinner as the CPU gets hot, improving heat
    transfer.
    GraB, Apr 18, 2006
    #18
  19. Brendon

    GraB Guest

    On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:42:14 +1200, GraB <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:42 +1200, "Brendon" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it, then shot
    >>down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and smeared a healthy
    >>does of that on. Is there any way to confirm this may be the issue?
    >>Oh, it also packs a real sad and freezes when trying to install new
    >>software. Requires a forced restart. :-(
    >>Cheers
    >>Brendon
    >>
    >>"EMB" <> wrote in message
    >>news:e2169o$29v$...
    >>> I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this feels to me
    >>> like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    >>> --
    >>> EMB

    >>

    >The role of the thermal tape/compound is to fill in the gaps between
    >the surface of the CPU and heatsink. Ideally there should be as much
    >direct contact between those surfaces for best cooling so the paste
    >should be the thinnest layer possible. The tape on the heatsink melts
    >and squeezes out, becoming thinner as the CPU gets hot, improving heat
    >transfer.


    Off course you use one or the other, best to remove the tape and use a
    good compound. I have Arctic Ceramique on my XP2400, currently
    running at 35C with big Zalman fan.
    GraB, Apr 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Brendon

    Malcolm Guest

    GraB wrote:

    > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:42:14 +1200, GraB <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:42 +1200, "Brendon" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>Thanks. OK, I left the thermal tape on the CPU that came with it,
    >>>then shot down to DSE, and grabbed a syringe of grease as well, and
    >>>smeared a healthy does of that on. Is there any way to confirm this
    >>>may be the issue? Oh, it also packs a real sad and freezes when
    >>>trying to install new software. Requires a forced restart. :-(
    >>>Cheers
    >>>Brendon
    >>>
    >>>"EMB" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:e2169o$29v$...
    >>>> I'd be looking very carefully at the CPU heatsink/fan - this
    >>>> feels to me like an overheating CPU causing the shutdown.
    >>>> --
    >>>> EMB
    >>>

    >>The role of the thermal tape/compound is to fill in the gaps between
    >>the surface of the CPU and heatsink. Ideally there should be as
    >>much direct contact between those surfaces for best cooling so the
    >>paste
    >>should be the thinnest layer possible. The tape on the heatsink
    >>melts and squeezes out, becoming thinner as the CPU gets hot,
    >>improving heat transfer.

    >
    > Off course you use one or the other, best to remove the tape and use
    > a
    > good compound. I have Arctic Ceramique on my XP2400, currently
    > running at 35C with big Zalman fan.

    Good stuff that ceramique, have it on my 4400+ with the stock
    heatsink. Idle temps for the CPU are around 30C, meant to get up to
    34C today...hopefully the air con will keep the room at around 20C

    --
    Cheers
    Malcolm °¿°
    Malcolm, Apr 18, 2006
    #20
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