New Nikon J1/V1 sensors = half the surface area of micro 4/3rds!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Sep 21, 8:33 am, RichA <> wrote:
    > About 116mm² compared to the M4/3's 225²
    > I think they made the right decision to stick with about 10
    > megapixels.  This gives it a pixel density about 50% greater than
    > M4/3rds, when compared to the 15 megapixel Panasonic G3.
    >
    > http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp#specs


    Worse decision, they kept the stupid 3:2 format. What an epic
    mistake. Sensor is 13.2mm x 8.8mm.
     
    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 22/09/2011 4:53 a.m., Paul Furman wrote:
    > Neil Harrington wrote:


    > The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    > camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    > manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    > It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    > have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    > have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.
    >


    The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    menu rather than mode button.
    Nikon claim that the hybrid AF is the fastest AF system that they've
    produced on any camera, including the D3s. (but no doubt this is helped
    by smaller format's deeper DOF and lightweight lenses)
    With all other mirrorless cameras currently produced, AF performance is
    at best, only at the level of entry-level slrs for static objects, even
    with specially designed lenses, and effectively useless for focus
    tracking on moving subjects. Nikon claim that this system is capable of
    accurate focus-tracking at 10 fps. If true, then...
    So this system isn't going to be capable of shallow DOF from larger
    sensor cameras, and will be hobbled in terms of ultimate image quality
    by the smaller format. But it looks much better on paper than what's
    been available in compact cameras, and the hopefully fast/accurate AF -
    if it lives up to the claims - should be a killer feature for the target
    market, people taking photos of their kids playing etc etc.
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 22/09/2011 9:44 a.m., Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2011-09-21 14:18:35 -0700, Me <> said:
    >
    >> On 22/09/2011 4:53 a.m., Paul Furman wrote:
    >>> Neil Harrington wrote:

    >>
    >>> The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    >>> camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    >>> manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    >>> It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    >>> have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    >>> have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.
    >>>

    >>
    >> The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    >> menu rather than mode button.

    >
    > ...but give me at least a single control wheel under my thumb.
    > Let me make those changes to mode without having to dig through a damn
    > menu.
    >
    > Who cares how fast this AF is if all the other features are buried in
    > menus. With my D300s and my G11 I can make the change in A/S/M without
    > removing my eye from the VF.
    > Regardless of the other issues, Nikon got this concept right on the
    > P7100 by aping the G11/G12. With this offering they have failed the
    > photographer to appeal to a niche which would be better served by
    > another manufacturer's camera or a DSLR.
    > I can make exposure adjustments without digging through menus. I will
    > need more convincing than merely being faithful to the brand.
    >
    > The Fuji X10 is more appealing to me. So I will stick with my D300s and
    > G11 which serves me well when I need something compact.
    >
    >
    >> Nikon claim that the hybrid AF is the fastest AF system that they've
    >> produced on any camera, including the D3s. (but no doubt this is
    >> helped by smaller format's deeper DOF and lightweight lenses)
    >> With all other mirrorless cameras currently produced, AF performance
    >> is at best, only at the level of entry-level slrs for static objects,
    >> even with specially designed lenses, and effectively useless for focus
    >> tracking on moving subjects. Nikon claim that this system is capable
    >> of accurate focus-tracking at 10 fps. If true, then...
    >> So this system isn't going to be capable of shallow DOF from larger
    >> sensor cameras, and will be hobbled in terms of ultimate image quality
    >> by the smaller format. But it looks much better on paper than what's
    >> been available in compact cameras, and the hopefully fast/accurate AF
    >> - if it lives up to the claims - should be a killer feature for the
    >> target market, people taking photos of their kids playing etc etc.

    >
    > This is going to take a lot of selling to that market at that price
    > point. Why buy this, when an entry level DSLR would serve them just as
    > well at lower cost? Why buy this when most of those you have IDed as
    > part of the target market are going to be happier with a compact or
    > Super zoom, at a lower price point and never know what they were
    > supposed to be happy with by paying the premium for the V1?
    >
    >

    I don't disagree with you, but you (and I) have probably been using
    cameras of various formats and types for decades. We're not the target
    market.
    If they released this with some fast (and it would need to be really
    fast) glass at reasonable price, then maybe - but I don't think that's
    going to happen.
    I wouldn't underestimate the impact, if the AF system works as well as
    claimed. Entry level slrs - even some expensive ones like the Canon
    5DII - and compact cameras aren't very good at focus tracking, and users
    are often disappointed with the results taking photos of their kids,
    pets, etc etc. I'd wager that more users are disappointed with blurry
    out of focus shots than are disappointed by lack of ability to reduce
    DOF beyond sensor size determined limits, image noise at higher ISO, or
    ultimate resolution not being good enough for billboard-sized prints
    (IOW the limitations of smaller sensors).

    The prices do seem quite high. The 10-100mm VR would probably be a
    popular lens, but I wonder how much that costs?
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #4
  5. In <2011092114441116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> Savageduck wrote:

    > Who cares how fast this AF is if all the other features are buried in
    > menus. With my D300s and my G11 I can make the change in A/S/M without
    > removing my eye from the VF.


    I can see the value of that but I belive that to Nikons main target group for
    these cameras those options (PASM) are mostly considered visual noise that
    competes with the scenes modes (sport, landscape, night) and makes the camera
    hard to understand and use.

    > Regardless of the other issues, Nikon got this concept right on the
    > P7100 by aping the G11/G12.


    How is it to work with the P7100? I'm considering a V1, but I do wonder how
    it will compare to usability of a DSLR, and I assume some of the basics on
    the V1 will be inherited from the P7100.

    On my DSLR find that I do not use A/S/M very often, what I find myself doing
    frequently though is: in P mode, use the front and rear wheel to adjust the
    shutter or aperture to control depth of field and motion blur; and use exposure
    compensation button to adjust brightness.

    On a P7100, are those three, shutter, aperture, exposure comp, easily
    available, or do I need to hunt for that in the menu system? And how do
    you imagine this is solved on the V1?

    I see that there is a knob for exposure compensation on the 4-way control
    pad, and dpreview mentions[0] some rocker lever used to adjust aperture in
    A and M modes. But what about shutter control?

    [0] http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3281713418/nikon-1-system-first-impressions/2

    --
    Fredrik Jonson
     
    Fredrik Jonson, Sep 22, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >On 2011-09-21 14:18:35 -0700, Me <> said:
    >> On 22/09/2011 4:53 a.m., Paul Furman wrote:
    >>> Neil Harrington wrote:

    >>
    >>> The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    >>> camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    >>> manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    >>> It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    >>> have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    >>> have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.
    >>>

    >>
    >> The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    >> menu rather than mode button.

    >
    >...but give me at least a single control wheel under my thumb.
    >Let me make those changes to mode without having to dig through a damn menu.



    You obviously failed to understand that these cameras are not aimed at
    you, nor at people like you. The target market is that of people who
    take pictures but do not consider themselves photographers. People
    who shoot for Facebook.

    For people who consider themselves photographers, Nikon has an
    extensive DSLR range whose entry-level pricing is likely to be
    slightly cheaper than the more expensive of the two 1 System cameras.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Me <> wrote:
    >
    >I don't disagree with you, but you (and I) have probably been using
    >cameras of various formats and types for decades. We're not the target
    >market.



    At last, someone who understands! ;-)
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Sep 21, 9:06 pm, Paul Furman <> wrote:
    > Rich wrote:
    > > "Neil Harrington"<>  wrote in
    > >news::

    >
    > >> RichA wrote:
    > >>> On Sep 21, 8:33 am, RichA<>  wrote:
    > >>>> About 116mm² compared to the M4/3's 225²
    > >>>> I think they made the right decision to stick with about 10
    > >>>> megapixels. This gives it a pixel density about 50% greater than
    > >>>> M4/3rds, when compared to the 15 megapixel Panasonic G3.

    >
    > >>>>http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp#specs

    >
    > >>> Worse decision, they kept the stupid 3:2 format.  What an epic
    > >>> mistake.  Sensor is 13.2mm x 8.8mm.

    >
    > >> The 3:2 is just fine. I'll bet about 99% of all machine-made prints
    > >> are 4x6" from the local Walmart, Walgreen's or whatever. Also, I'm
    > >> sure most people nowadays are using widescreen monitors, laptops and
    > >> TVs, and 3:2 lends itself to such screen sizes a lot better than 4:3
    > >> does.

    >
    > >> The camera does not look entirely uninteresting, but $900 list with a
    > >> modest kit lens? Oy.

    >
    > > Well, if they can charge $700 for newly released, cheap plastic DSLR with
    > > modest if any improvements over the last cookie-cutter model, then I
    > > don't begrudge them what the want for this new one.

    >
    > Ah, OK - the $650 J1 is plastic: "The [not yet released $900] V1 is
    > intended as the higher-end model in the lineup and features magnesium
    > alloy construction and a 1.4M dot electronic viewfinder."


    At least it's new and not just a retread.
     
    RichA, Sep 22, 2011
    #8
  9. Re: New Nikon J1/V1 sensors = half the surface area of micro4/3rds!

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Bruce wrote:

    > Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >> On 2011-09-21 14:18:35 -0700, Me <> said:
    >>> On 22/09/2011 4:53 a.m., Paul Furman wrote:
    >>>> Neil Harrington wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    >>>> camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    >>>> manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    >>>> It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    >>>> have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    >>>> have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    >>> menu rather than mode button.

    >>
    >> ...but give me at least a single control wheel under my thumb.
    >> Let me make those changes to mode without having to dig through a damn menu.

    >
    >
    > You obviously failed to understand that these cameras are not aimed at
    > you, nor at people like you. The target market is that of people who
    > take pictures but do not consider themselves photographers. People
    > who shoot for Facebook.
    >
    > For people who consider themselves photographers, Nikon has an
    > extensive DSLR range whose entry-level pricing is likely to be
    > slightly cheaper than the more expensive of the two 1 System cameras.



    This is probably true -- but Nikon is not the only company out there. I
    can understand them wanting to protect their cash cow, but now, instead of
    cannibalizing their core product with mirrorless cameras, they're
    potentially going to allow other companies to do so. I'm not too hip on
    the mirrorless thing myself, but it does look like it's going to be the
    future replacement for consumer DSLRs. Joe public will take reduced size
    any day.

    --
    -Ryan McGinnis
    The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
    Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
    Images@Getty: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT Images@Alamy:[url]http://bit.ly/aMH6Qd[/url]
     
    Ryan McGinnis, Sep 22, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 9/22/2011 10:09 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2011-09-22 02:59:47 -0700, Fredrik Jonson <> said:
    >
    >> In <2011092114441116807-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>> Who cares how fast this AF is if all the other features are buried in
    >>> menus. With my D300s and my G11 I can make the change in A/S/M without
    >>> removing my eye from the VF.

    >>
    >> I can see the value of that but I belive that to Nikons main target
    >> group for
    >> these cameras those options (PASM) are mostly considered visual noise
    >> that
    >> competes with the scenes modes (sport, landscape, night) and makes the
    >> camera
    >> hard to understand and use.
    >>
    >>> Regardless of the other issues, Nikon got this concept right on the
    >>> P7100 by aping the G11/G12.

    >>
    >> How is it to work with the P7100? I'm considering a V1, but I do
    >> wonder how
    >> it will compare to usability of a DSLR, and I assume some of the
    >> basics on
    >> the V1 will be inherited from the P7100.

    >
    > None of the design features of the P7100 are to be found in the V1. That
    > said, the larger sensor, AF, and processor in the V1 are all going to be
    > an improvement over the P7100. It is the ergonomics of the design with
    > regard to the control of functions which seems problematic to me.
    > The IQ and speed of the V1 is going to be an improvement over the P7100
    > which has its own issues with regard to speed and low light capability.
    >
    > As you might have noted I do not own a P7100, but I do have a G11 which
    > has a similar control layout.
    >
    > It would be interesting to see if Nikon ever upgrades the P7100 (even if
    > it is slightly larger) to incorporate the sensor, electronics, and lens
    > interchangeability of the V1, and retain the ergonomics of the P7100.
    > Just wishful thinking, a camera like that could compete with the X100 or
    > even the M9.
    >
    >>
    >> On my DSLR find that I do not use A/S/M very often, what I find myself
    >> doing
    >> frequently though is: in P mode, use the front and rear wheel to
    >> adjust the
    >> shutter or aperture to control depth of field and motion blur; and use
    >> exposure
    >> compensation button to adjust brightness.

    >
    > The muscle memory you have developed using those front & rear wheels is
    > not going to translate to the V1 easily, and that is one point of my
    > gripe. As to your preference to use P over A/S/M at this stage is your
    > choice. It does give you an understanding of the relationship of
    > aperture, to speed, to ISO, and if need to make a switch to any of the
    > other modes you can easily and can dial in your needed settings quickly
    > and simply.
    >
    >>
    >> On a P7100, are those three, shutter, aperture, exposure comp, easily
    >> available,

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >> or do I need to hunt for that in the menu system? And how do
    >> you imagine this is solved on the V1?

    >
    > It isn't. It is obviously awkward.
    >
    >>
    >> I see that there is a knob for exposure compensation on the 4-way control
    >> pad, and dpreview mentions[0] some rocker lever used to adjust
    >> aperture in
    >> A and M modes. But what about shutter control?
    >>
    >> [0]
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3281713418/nikon-1-system-first-impressions/2
    >>

    >
    > The
    >>

    > photographer who wants to access the usual function controls is going to
    > find the J1/V1 operation awkward. This pretty much defines the target
    > market, and we are not it.
    >
    >


    I would like to see the fast auto focus on the hopefully forthcoming D4.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Sep 22, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >On 2011-09-22 03:58:25 -0700, Bruce <> said:
    >> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>> On 2011-09-21 14:18:35 -0700, Me <> said:
    >>>> On 22/09/2011 4:53 a.m., Paul Furman wrote:
    >>>>> Neil Harrington wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    >>>>> camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    >>>>> manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    >>>>> It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    >>>>> have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    >>>>> have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    >>>> menu rather than mode button.
    >>>
    >>> ...but give me at least a single control wheel under my thumb.
    >>> Let me make those changes to mode without having to dig through a damn menu.

    >>
    >>
    >> You obviously failed to understand that these cameras are not aimed at
    >> you, nor at people like you. The target market is that of people who
    >> take pictures but do not consider themselves photographers. People
    >> who shoot for Facebook.

    >
    >They are going to shoot for Facebook with a $600-$900 system camera? It
    >seems to me all those folks need is a compact or superzoom and keep
    >costs below $350.



    That might be all they need, but they seem to want more. Perhaps not
    too much more, but more. Apparently the focus groups used by Nikon
    Europe have been extremely enthusiastic about the 1 Series.


    >> For people who consider themselves photographers, Nikon has an
    >> extensive DSLR range whose entry-level pricing is likely to be
    >> slightly cheaper than the more expensive of the two 1 System cameras.

    >
    >They already are.



    We don't know that, as prices haven't been finalised here and only
    street prices (not list prices) will tell the story. We need to wait
    until a few months after the cameras are introduced before we can draw
    any conclusions.

    [A recent example of this would be the Nikon Coolpix P7000 which ended
    up with a street price of just over half its list price. No-one could
    have predicted that before the camera even went on sale.]

    I have to say that I was very disappointed with the 1 System. The
    camera bodies look and feel very basic compared to, for example, the
    Panasonic Lumix LX-5. The finish is basic and looks cheap. The
    lettering on cameras and lenses is poorly done. The V1's viewfinder
    "hump" looks ugly and is poorly integrated with the rest of the body.
    The EVF is good, but not *that* good.

    The basic appearance means that no-one is going to be tempted away
    from a Sony NEX, nor a Panasonic or Olympus Micro Four Thirds body,
    all of which look better made and somehow far more luxurious.

    However, I was astonished by the AF performance. It is blisteringly
    fast and accurate and makes my D3 look slow. The video performance
    appears stunning. The processor is the fastest of any Nikon camera
    made so far.

    These are huge advances, but it seems very strange to find them on a
    camera with such a tiny sensor and only 10 MP in a system that is
    designed to appeal to non-photographers. It certainly won't appeal to
    enthusiastic photographers. Pros won't give it a second glance.

    The 1 System is a mass of contradictions. It will either establish a
    completely new market that does not overlap Nikon's entry-level DSLRs
    (which is Nikon's wish), or it will be a gigantic flop. I have no
    idea which.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >It would be interesting to see if Nikon ever upgrades the P7100 (even
    >if it is slightly larger) to incorporate the sensor, electronics, and
    >lens interchangeability of the V1, and retain the ergonomics of the
    >P7100. Just wishful thinking, a camera like that could compete with the
    >X100 or even the M9.



    Don't be silly. No camera with a sensor that tiny could ever begin to
    compete with an X100, let alone an M9.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #12
  13. "Neil Harrington" <> writes:

    > Also, I can't say I think much of "Nikon 1" as a series name. It seems
    > unimaginative, unappealing and inaccurate all at the same time. And it
    > reminds me of the Vivitar lenses of 40 or so years ago.


    Nikon made a big mistake, a long time ago, by releasing their first SLR
    with just a letter (no number). To bring balance back to the force,
    they've found it necessary now to release this new camera with just a
    number, no letter.

    :)
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 22, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet <> wrote:
    >"Neil Harrington" <> writes:
    >> Also, I can't say I think much of "Nikon 1" as a series name. It seems
    >> unimaginative, unappealing and inaccurate all at the same time. And it
    >> reminds me of the Vivitar lenses of 40 or so years ago.

    >
    >Nikon made a big mistake, a long time ago, by releasing their first SLR
    >with just a letter (no number). To bring balance back to the force,
    >they've found it necessary now to release this new camera with just a
    >number, no letter.
    >
    >:)



    You have to admit it's quite catchy.

    Which one do you want? The Nikon One!!
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 23/09/2011 9:04 a.m., Neil Harrington wrote:
    > David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
    >> "Neil Harrington"<> writes:
    >>
    >>> Also, I can't say I think much of "Nikon 1" as a series name. It
    >>> seems unimaginative, unappealing and inaccurate all at the same
    >>> time. And it reminds me of the Vivitar lenses of 40 or so years ago.

    >>
    >> Nikon made a big mistake, a long time ago, by releasing their first
    >> SLR with just a letter (no number).

    >
    > But at least the letter wasn't "A". That would have suggested the first
    > model, as with Henry Ford's early cars. (Henry did eventually recycle the
    > "Model A" designation, long after his very earliest models had been
    > forgotten.)
    >
    >> To bring balance back to the
    >> force, they've found it necessary now to release this new camera with
    >> just a number, no letter.
    >>
    >> :)

    >
    > OK, now it begins to make sense.
    >
    > So after the Nikon 1 will come the 1B, then the 1C, and so on, just as the F
    > was followed by the F2, then the F3 and so on. Now I get it. :)
    >
    >


    "Evolt", "*ist" "Rebel/Kiss"
    Please refrain from giving Nikon a hard time about the names of their
    cameras.
     
    Me, Sep 22, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    Me Guest

    On 23/09/2011 9:42 a.m., Alan Browne wrote:

    >
    > The data transfer rates are very impressive - if Nikon goes on to do a
    > DSLR with a pelicle, then such could result in a very high frame rate
    > machine ideal for action photography.
    >


    From what I understood of how the hybrid AF works, with on-sensor phase
    detect, they don't need a pellicle system.
    They could have the technology to make an slr camera that doesn't /need/
    a mirror as AF no longer relies on it, but /includes/ a mirror in the
    design. Flip the mirror up, lift the prism out, slot in the EVF when
    that suits, or put the prism back in when the lag or resolution of the
    EVF is an impediment. Sounds good to me - have I missed something?
    The failing of most mirrorless cameras is crappy AF - especially for
    focus tracking. An EVF has advantages and disadvantages over a reflex
    OVF - and vice versa. No OVF or EVF is a joke, and an embarrassingly
    pathetic spectacle if the camera's bigger than a P&S or cellphone, but
    if you've got steady hands, can see an LCD in bright sunlight, and don't
    care if you look like a compleat idiot, then YMMV.
    If this new AF system is so revolutionary, then it perhaps makes sense
    how Nikon first release it in a clearly non-pro and slightly whacky new
    system. The D4 probably isn't too far away, and it would have been a
    great surprise if the D4 as a conventional dslr was anything more than
    an incremental improvement - as it's not so easy to improve something
    (D3s) which is still state of the art. Throw in a few more pixels
    perhaps, but tweak the CAM AF system? Perhaps they don't need to.
    If they made a D3000/5000 class mirrorless camera now - which bettered
    their flagship D3s for AF performance, they just seriously shot
    themselves in the foot. I doubt they care about Sony/Oly/Panasonic
    taking a little market from lower end dslrs. Nikon's competitor is
    Canon - and I don't see that changing any time soon.
    Makes much more sense to release something revolutionary (if that's what
    this AF system is) for the "serious market" at the top end, then filter
    it down to consumer models over time.

    Anyway that's it from me - "projecting" might be rewarded by making some
    lucky guesses, but I usually try to avoid it as my track record isn't great.
     
    Me, Sep 23, 2011
    #16
  17. Me <> writes:

    > On 23/09/2011 9:04 a.m., Neil Harrington wrote:
    >> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
    >>> "Neil Harrington"<> writes:
    >>>
    >>>> Also, I can't say I think much of "Nikon 1" as a series name. It
    >>>> seems unimaginative, unappealing and inaccurate all at the same
    >>>> time. And it reminds me of the Vivitar lenses of 40 or so years ago.
    >>>
    >>> Nikon made a big mistake, a long time ago, by releasing their first
    >>> SLR with just a letter (no number).

    >>
    >> But at least the letter wasn't "A". That would have suggested the first
    >> model, as with Henry Ford's early cars. (Henry did eventually recycle the
    >> "Model A" designation, long after his very earliest models had been
    >> forgotten.)
    >>
    >>> To bring balance back to the
    >>> force, they've found it necessary now to release this new camera with
    >>> just a number, no letter.
    >>>
    >>> :)

    >>
    >> OK, now it begins to make sense.
    >>
    >> So after the Nikon 1 will come the 1B, then the 1C, and so on, just as the F
    >> was followed by the F2, then the F3 and so on. Now I get it. :)

    >
    > "Evolt", "*ist" "Rebel/Kiss"
    > Please refrain from giving Nikon a hard time about the names of their
    > cameras.


    Yeah, fair point.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 23, 2011
    #17
  18. Alan Browne <> writes:

    > On 2011-09-21 11:39 , Neil Harrington wrote:
    >> RichA wrote:
    >>> On Sep 21, 8:33 am, RichA<> wrote:
    >>>> About 116mm² compared to the M4/3's 225²
    >>>> I think they made the right decision to stick with about 10
    >>>> megapixels. This gives it a pixel density about 50% greater than
    >>>> M4/3rds, when compared to the 15 megapixel Panasonic G3.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp#specs
    >>>
    >>> Worse decision, they kept the stupid 3:2 format. What an epic
    >>> mistake. Sensor is 13.2mm x 8.8mm.

    >>
    >> The 3:2 is just fine. I'll bet about 99% of all machine-made prints are 4x6"
    >> from the local Walmart, Walgreen's or whatever. Also, I'm sure most people
    >> nowadays are using widescreen monitors, laptops and TVs, and 3:2 lends
    >> itself to such screen sizes a lot better than 4:3 does.

    >
    > With more and more electronic presentation of images, such a small
    > sensor will do fine - as it will for small prints. Indeed with 10
    > Mpix, should do well up to about 12x8" prints.


    My LX3 (much smaller sensor) made really great 20x30 prints (though only
    from really great pictures, of course; and I only tried it from the very
    low ISOs).
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 23, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Neil
    Harrington <> wrote:

    > "Rebel" I think wasn't so bad. "Evolt" was sort of dumb. "*ist" was
    > terrible, largely because I can't believe many people knew how to pronounce
    > it. (I certainly never did.) "Asteriskist" doesn't roll very easily off the
    > tongue, nor does it have any obvious relation to anything camerawise.


    pentax said the * was silent and it rhymes with artist. it was supposed
    to mean all types of artists.

    they later tried to claim it was actually an acronym, for integrated
    shooting technology or something like that. originally, there was a
    film *ist and a digital *ist-d, with several successors for the digital
    version (-ds, -dl, -ds2, -dl2).

    the real problem was not how to pronounce it, but rather searching for
    information about it online. putting an * in a search query returns a
    whole lot more.
     
    nospam, Sep 23, 2011
    #19
  20. Re: New Nikon J1/V1 sensors = half the surface area of micro4/3rds!

    On Fri, 23 Sep 2011, Neil Harrington wrote:

    > Rich wrote:
    >> Me <> wrote in news:j5dnfv$vn7$:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I wouldn't underestimate the impact, if the AF system works as well
    >>> as claimed. Entry level slrs - even some expensive ones like the
    >>> Canon 5DII - and compact cameras aren't very good at focus tracking,
    >>> and users are often disappointed with the results taking photos of
    >>> their kids,

    >>
    >> More people are now predicting the death of mirrors and prisms. The
    >> only people still maintaining the opposite are the same people who
    >> cried when digital passed 5 megapixels and replaced the SLR.

    >
    > I think we have quite a long way to go before the prism reflex becomes
    > outdated technology. There are too many things it just does better than
    > anything else.


    I get the feeling that pelicle mirrors are going to be the future.
    High-ISO performance has become so incredible that losing a third of a
    stop of light is negligible.


    -Ryan McGinnis
    The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
    Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
    Images@Getty: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT Images@Alamy:[url]http://bit.ly/aMH6Qd[/url]
     
    Ryan McGinnis, Sep 23, 2011
    #20
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