New MS Ram diagnostic tool..

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Greg Townsend, Jul 31, 2003.

  1. Greg Townsend, Jul 31, 2003
    #1
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  2. Mauricio Freitas, Aug 3, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    news:bgk1nq$9gu$...
    > "Greg Townsend" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    > >

    >
    > I saw that and thought "have to boot with this tool"... What if the boot
    > fails and this is the only HDD I have?
    >
    > I don't feel safe running this thing...
    >



    Ok, reading again I can install to a floppy. Problem is my desktop doesn't
    have FDD (my option to not have an old stuff like this). And to use a floppy
    on my laptop I have to install an extension cable.

    What a pain...

    --
    Mauricio Freitas
    mobility, wireless, handhelds: http://www.geekzone.co.nz or
    http://www.bluetoothguide.com
     
    Mauricio Freitas, Aug 3, 2003
    #3
  4. Greg  Townsend

    Jay Guest

    Jay, Aug 4, 2003
    #4
  5. "Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    news:bgk1qr$9hp$...
    > "Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    > news:bgk1nq$9gu$...
    > > "Greg Townsend" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > >
    > > > http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    > > >

    > >
    > > I saw that and thought "have to boot with this tool"... What if the boot
    > > fails and this is the only HDD I have?
    > >
    > > I don't feel safe running this thing...
    > >

    >
    >
    > Ok, reading again I can install to a floppy. Problem is my desktop doesn't
    > have FDD (my option to not have an old stuff like this). And to use a

    floppy
    > on my laptop I have to install an extension cable.
    >
    > What a pain...


    Er.. you install either onto a floppy or a cdrom.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Aug 4, 2003
    #5
  6. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:

    >Greg Townsend wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> URL
    >>
    >> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top

    >
    >Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run properly?
    >It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?




    No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #6
  7. Greg  Townsend

    Jay Guest

    Greg Townsend wrote:

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >
    >>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> URL
    >>>
    >>> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top

    >>
    >>Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run properly?
    >>It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?

    >
    >
    >
    > No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..


    So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the
    memory test program is running properly?

    I think memory test programs depend on good memory
    to run in, don't they? Or doesn't it matter?
    Can you run a memory test program successfully in bad memory.
    That is, it doesn't really matter if opcode 0x7f suddenly changes
    to opcode 0x7e?
     
    Jay, Aug 4, 2003
    #7
  8. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay <> wrote:

    >Greg Townsend wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> URL
    >>>>
    >>>> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    >>>
    >>>Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run properly?
    >>>It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..

    >
    >So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the
    >memory test program is running properly?
    >
    >I think memory test programs depend on good memory
    >to run in, don't they? Or doesn't it matter?
    >Can you run a memory test program successfully in bad memory.
    >That is, it doesn't really matter if opcode 0x7f suddenly changes
    >to opcode 0x7e?




    Good Memory probram move around and test different parts of memory, when you
    have worked on BIG computers you would know this..
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #8
  9. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay <> wrote:

    >Greg Townsend wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> URL
    >>>>
    >>>> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    >>>
    >>>Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run properly?
    >>>It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..

    >
    >So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the
    >memory test program is running properly?
    >
    >I think memory test programs depend on good memory
    >to run in, don't they? Or doesn't it matter?
    >Can you run a memory test program successfully in bad memory.
    >That is, it doesn't really matter if opcode 0x7f suddenly changes
    >to opcode 0x7e?




    Way way back in 8 bit days, I had a 16K Memory board that kept failing, and
    all the test sin the world would not show it up, even with a external hardware
    memory tester, and even when running it all week..

    THe Problem was a micro code instruction was being change that affected the
    inbuilt tape drive, it would not stop.

    Use a hardware debugging console to look at the instruction codes in memory,
    hex values, when the fault developed managed to find the code that had change,
    this was by displaying all the micro codes, then worked out what ram chip it
    was..

    Replaced the 2k ram chip..
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #9
  10. Greg Townsend <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >
    >>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> URL
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    >>>>
    >>>>Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run
    >>>>properly? It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..

    >>
    >>So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the
    >>memory test program is running properly?
    >>
    >>I think memory test programs depend on good memory
    >>to run in, don't they? Or doesn't it matter?
    >>Can you run a memory test program successfully in bad memory.
    >>That is, it doesn't really matter if opcode 0x7f suddenly changes
    >>to opcode 0x7e?

    >
    >
    >
    > Way way back in 8 bit days, I had a 16K Memory board that kept
    > failing, and all the test sin the world would not show it up, even
    > with a external hardware memory tester, and even when running it all
    > week..
    >
    > THe Problem was a micro code instruction was being change that
    > affected the inbuilt tape drive, it would not stop.
    >
    > Use a hardware debugging console to look at the instruction codes in
    > memory, hex values, when the fault developed managed to find the code
    > that had change, this was by displaying all the micro codes, then
    > worked out what ram chip it was..
    >
    > Replaced the 2k ram chip..
    >
    >
    >


    That must have been a REAL big computer ... you know, like a ZX-80.

    --
    -Nicolaas
     
    Nicolaas Hawkins, Aug 4, 2003
    #10
  11. On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:42:07 +0000 (UTC), Nicolaas Hawkins <>
    wrote:

    >Greg Townsend <> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:17:37 +1000, Jay <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Greg Townsend wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> URL
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Surely if you have bad memory then no program is going to run
    >>>>>properly? It's a bit like asking Bush to count the votes isn't it?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> No this is to test if its bad or intermittent..
    >>>
    >>>So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the
    >>>memory test program is running properly?
    >>>
    >>>I think memory test programs depend on good memory
    >>>to run in, don't they? Or doesn't it matter?
    >>>Can you run a memory test program successfully in bad memory.
    >>>That is, it doesn't really matter if opcode 0x7f suddenly changes
    >>>to opcode 0x7e?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Way way back in 8 bit days, I had a 16K Memory board that kept
    >> failing, and all the test sin the world would not show it up, even
    >> with a external hardware memory tester, and even when running it all
    >> week..
    >>
    >> THe Problem was a micro code instruction was being change that
    >> affected the inbuilt tape drive, it would not stop.
    >>
    >> Use a hardware debugging console to look at the instruction codes in
    >> memory, hex values, when the fault developed managed to find the code
    >> that had change, this was by displaying all the micro codes, then
    >> worked out what ram chip it was..
    >>
    >> Replaced the 2k ram chip..
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >That must have been a REAL big computer ... you know, like a ZX-80.




    A Singer Data Capture PC used by lots of firms, can also be use as a
    controller for Pertec Tape Drives, was also used to send Columbus Shipping
    Data via Tape/Modem to the USA, the first in NZ..
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #11
  12. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:23:35 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay wrote:
    >
    >> So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the memory test
    >> program is running properly?

    >
    >download and burn the memtest86 bootable ISO.
    >
    >No messydos/winblows needed, just a CDrom
    >
    >
    >




    Dos is not messy at all.
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #12
  13. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:23:35 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay wrote:
    >
    >> So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the memory test
    >> program is running properly?

    >
    >download and burn the memtest86 bootable ISO.
    >
    >No messydos/winblows needed, just a CDrom
    >
    >
    >




    Also the person is just being a Prick as he does not know a thing about memory
    test programs.


    I have 3 all run from a floppy BUT NOT VIA DOS AT ALL.


    One of them is made by a Pro memtester firm..
     
    Greg Townsend, Aug 4, 2003
    #13
  14. Greg  Townsend

    Jay Guest

    Greg Townsend wrote:

    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:23:35 +0000, "Uncle StoatWarbler"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay wrote:
    >>
    >>> So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the memory test
    >>> program is running properly?

    >>
    >>download and burn the memtest86 bootable ISO.
    >>
    >>No messydos/winblows needed, just a CDrom
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Also the person is just being a Prick as he does not know a thing about
    > memory test programs.
    >
    >
    > I have 3 all run from a floppy BUT NOT VIA DOS AT ALL.
    >
    >
    > One of them is made by a Pro memtester firm..


    But they all run in RAM don't they?
     
    Jay, Aug 4, 2003
    #14
  15. On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:24:29 +1000, Jay wrote:

    > So if it is bad or intermittent how do you know that the memory test
    > program is running properly?


    download and burn the memtest86 bootable ISO.

    No messydos/winblows needed, just a CDrom
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Aug 4, 2003
    #15
  16. Greg  Townsend

    Rob Guest

    "Jay" <> wrote in message
    news:bgmn7b$qu8r9$-berlin.de...
    > Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >


    > But what if it appears to work? How do you tell if it doesn't work?
    > Does the program pop up a dialog saying "I am not working properly"?
    >


    s/I am not working properly/Microsoft

    ;-}

    Rob
     
    Rob, Aug 5, 2003
    #16
  17. Greg  Townsend

    Andrew Guest

    Pasted from mid way down the microsoft page
    http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

    "Andrew" <> wrote in message
    news:uPCXa.9218$...
    > Configuration Amount of time required to complete the standard test
    > pass
    > Pentium II, 233 MHz
    > 128 MB RAM 8 minutes, 32 seconds
    > Pentium III, 1 GHz
    > 256 MB RAM 5 minutes
    > Pentium 4, 2.8 GHz
    > 1 GB RAM 7 minutes, 25 seconds
    > Athlon XP 2000+, 1.67 GHz
    > 400 MB RAM 4 minutes, 30 seconds
    >
    >
    >
    > Does that look a bit funny to anyone?
    > I knew the P4 was slow... but this is just ridiculous
    >
    > Shouldnt it be 7 mins for the p3 and 5 mins for the P42.8 and 4 mins for

    the
    > Athlon?
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    > "Greg Townsend" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > URL
    > >
    > > http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Andrew, Aug 5, 2003
    #17
  18. Greg  Townsend

    Jay Guest

    Nicholas Sherlock wrote:

    > "Jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:bgmn7b$qu8r9$-berlin.de...
    >> Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >> > They run from a bootdisk or cd and only use about 50kb of memory. The
    >> > chances of a fault being in the first little bit are pretty slim. If it
    >> > doesn't work, then you know that your memory is fucked anyway so it has
    >> > done it's job :).

    >>
    >> But what if it appears to work? How do you tell if it doesn't work?
    >> Does the program pop up a dialog saying "I am not working properly"?
    >>

    >
    > If it isn't working properly, it'll collapse in a screaming, twitching,
    > quivering heap. You can't mix up CPU instructions and continue executing
    > as if nothing is wrong.


    Yes you can. A "bne" can become a "beq" and the program will
    just take a different logic path. That is, you'll get the wrong answer
    but the program will work.

    You are quite wrong.
     
    Jay, Aug 5, 2003
    #18
  19. Greg  Townsend

    Ben Perston Guest

    Jay wrote:
    > Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >>If it isn't working properly, it'll collapse in a screaming, twitching,
    >>quivering heap. You can't mix up CPU instructions and continue executing
    >>as if nothing is wrong.

    >
    >
    > Yes you can. A "bne" can become a "beq" and the program will
    > just take a different logic path. That is, you'll get the wrong answer
    > but the program will work.
    >
    > You are quite wrong.


    What do you get if you calculate the probability of this diagnostic
    (taking 50k of memory) failing to spot an error on say a system with 256
    MB? I.e. that the dodgy bit will be used by the programme and that it
    will cause this specific scenario?
     
    Ben Perston, Aug 5, 2003
    #19
  20. Greg  Townsend

    Jay Guest

    Ben Perston wrote:

    > Jay wrote:
    >> Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >>>If it isn't working properly, it'll collapse in a screaming, twitching,
    >>>quivering heap. You can't mix up CPU instructions and continue executing
    >>>as if nothing is wrong.

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes you can. A "bne" can become a "beq" and the program will
    >> just take a different logic path. That is, you'll get the wrong answer
    >> but the program will work.
    >>
    >> You are quite wrong.

    >
    > What do you get if you calculate the probability of this diagnostic
    > (taking 50k of memory) failing to spot an error on say a system with 256
    > MB? I.e. that the dodgy bit will be used by the programme and that it
    > will cause this specific scenario?


    A probability greater than zero.
     
    Jay, Aug 5, 2003
    #20
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