New LCD's better than CRT's

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by zipdisk@clearxxxx.net.nz, Jun 17, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD technology
    recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs out
    of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits per
    color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step gray-scales.
    The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    capable of.


    http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
     
    , Jun 17, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. E. Scrooge Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    > technology
    > recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    > out
    > of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits
    > per
    > color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    > gray-scales.
    > The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    > capable of.


    And all for $200 (NZ).
    The technology comes at a price. Let us know how the one that you've
    ordered works out.
    Such improvements at the top end of the range are hardly surprising.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Nihil Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:

    > Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD technology
    > recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs out
    > of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits per
    > color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step gray-scales.
    > The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    > capable of.
    >
    >
    > http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6


    Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and can
    max it out to 146"s.

    -N
     
    Nihil, Jun 17, 2006
    #3
  4. On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, zipdisk wrote:

    >
    >
    > Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD technology
    > recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs out
    > of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits per
    > color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step gray-scales.
    > The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    > capable of.
    >
    >
    > http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6


    Sounds like LCD technology is finally starting to mature.

    What is the dead pixel situation like on these new LCD monitors?

    And what is the screen resolution?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Jun 17, 2006
    #4
  5. E. Scrooge Guest

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >
    >> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >> technology
    >> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >> out
    >> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >> bits per
    >> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >> gray-scales.
    >> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >> capable of.
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >
    > Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    > LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    > can
    > max it out to 146"s.
    >
    > -N


    Your projector uses LCD technology.
    Granted like my projector it looks better than many LCD TVs do. When it
    comes to store demos, a lot of them are badly adjusted and store projectors
    must be about the worse setup appliance of the lot in some places.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Nihil Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:21:19 +1200, E. Scrooge wrote:

    > "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    > news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>> technology
    >>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>> out
    >>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>> bits per
    >>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>> gray-scales.
    >>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>> capable of.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >>
    >> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >> can
    >> max it out to 146"s.
    >>
    >> -N

    >
    > Your projector uses LCD technology.
    > Granted like my projector it looks better than many LCD TVs do. When it
    > comes to store demos, a lot of them are badly adjusted and store projectors
    > must be about the worse setup appliance of the lot in some places.
    >
    > E. Scrooge


    Don't get me wrong. I also own a high end plasma and thought it was the
    bee's knee's. Until I demoed the latest projector technology. It just blew
    me away. In the last couple of years projectors have taken a quantam leap
    forward. I will never buy an LCD or Plasma again as the centre piece of my
    home entertainment system. Instead they'll be relegated to the spare room
    or bed room.

    -N
     
    Nihil, Jun 17, 2006
    #6
  7. JBS Guest

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >
    >> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >> technology
    >> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >> out
    >> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >> bits per
    >> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >> gray-scales.
    >> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >> capable of.
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >
    > Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    > LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    > can
    > max it out to 146"s.
    >
    > -N


    Are you talking about this projector:

    http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml

    If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher than the cost of many of the 32"
    LCD TVs that are around, which are getting down to around $3000 for a
    so-called hi definition capable one. How does the AE900 go with widescreen
    movies, is it fundamentally a 16:9 version, or the old 4:3 version? Do the
    latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms, the LCDs are pretty good
    now in bright rooms. Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)? And I wonder how
    the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?

    At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find some
    and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough dead
    pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs which
    can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on use).
     
    JBS, Jun 17, 2006
    #7
  8. Nihil Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:11:11 +1200, JBS wrote:

    > "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    > news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>> technology
    >>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>> out
    >>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>> bits per
    >>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>> gray-scales.
    >>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>> capable of.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >>
    >> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >> can
    >> max it out to 146"s.
    >>
    >> -N

    >
    > Are you talking about this projector:
    >
    > http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml


    Yes.

    > If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher


    I got mine for $3,800 plus a free spare bulb worth $600.

    > than the cost of many of the 32" LCD TVs that are around, which are getting
    > down to around $3000 for a so-called hi definition capable one.


    Why would I pay $3000 for a 32" LCD when I could pay just $800 more for
    146"s? With the projector I get way more value for money per inch.

    > How does the AE900 go with widescreen movies,


    Perfect.

    > is it fundamentally a 16:9 version,


    Native 16:9

    > or the old 4:3 version? Do the latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms,
    > the LCDs are pretty good now in bright rooms.


    Not brightly lit. Most people watch TV in the evening and night, but if I
    want to watch during the day I just close the curtains. I haven't needed to
    turn on my plasma since I've had the projector.

    > Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    > capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)?


    It is HD ready, and I already make used of it playing HD games on the
    xbox360.

    > And I wonder how the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?


    I trialled the Sony HS60 in my home for a few days. It was pretty good, but
    I preferred the Panasonic picture over the Sony.

    > At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    > over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find some
    > and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough dead
    > pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs which
    > can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on use).


    Irrelevant really. I had a 36" Philips CRT TV and replaced it less than 2
    years later with a 42" Plasma. Cost me thousands! Now I just need to
    replace the bulb which is going to be a lot cheaper :eek:)

    -N
     
    Nihil, Jun 17, 2006
    #8
  9. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:33:41 +1200, Nihil <> exclaimed:

    >On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:21:19 +1200, E. Scrooge wrote:
    >
    >> "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >> news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>>> technology
    >>>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>>> out
    >>>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>>> bits per
    >>>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>>> gray-scales.
    >>>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>>> capable of.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
    >>>
    >>> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >>> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >>> can
    >>> max it out to 146"s.
    >>>
    >>> -N

    >>
    >> Your projector uses LCD technology.
    >> Granted like my projector it looks better than many LCD TVs do. When it
    >> comes to store demos, a lot of them are badly adjusted and store projectors
    >> must be about the worse setup appliance of the lot in some places.
    >>
    >> E. Scrooge

    >
    >Don't get me wrong. I also own a high end plasma and thought it was the
    >bee's knee's. Until I demoed the latest projector technology. It just blew
    >me away. In the last couple of years projectors have taken a quantam leap
    >forward. I will never buy an LCD or Plasma again as the centre piece of my
    >home entertainment system. Instead they'll be relegated to the spare room
    >or bed room.
    >

    Absolutely agree.

    However, it's horses for courses. I also use a projector as the centre
    of our multimedia setup, however, it's no good for graphic design,
    which is what this new LCD is for.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jun 17, 2006
    #9
  10. Steve Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:57:43 +1200, Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:33:41 +1200, Nihil <> exclaimed:
    >
    >>On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:21:19 +1200, E. Scrooge wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >>>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>>>> technology
    >>>>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>>>> out
    >>>>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>>>> bits per
    >>>>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>>>> gray-scales.
    >>>>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>>>> capable of.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
    >>>>
    >>>> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >>>> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >>>> can
    >>>> max it out to 146"s.
    >>>>
    >>>> -N
    >>>
    >>> Your projector uses LCD technology.
    >>> Granted like my projector it looks better than many LCD TVs do. When it
    >>> comes to store demos, a lot of them are badly adjusted and store projectors
    >>> must be about the worse setup appliance of the lot in some places.
    >>>
    >>> E. Scrooge

    >>
    >>Don't get me wrong. I also own a high end plasma and thought it was the
    >>bee's knee's. Until I demoed the latest projector technology. It just blew
    >>me away. In the last couple of years projectors have taken a quantam leap
    >>forward. I will never buy an LCD or Plasma again as the centre piece of my
    >>home entertainment system. Instead they'll be relegated to the spare room
    >>or bed room.
    >>

    > Absolutely agree.
    >
    > However, it's horses for courses. I also use a projector as the centre
    > of our multimedia setup, however, it's no good for graphic design,
    > which is what this new LCD is for.


    Interestingly, it can display far more information than the human eye can
    see! While working on the initial research for the display systems for
    Philips bodyscanners, we proved that the human eye can only see about 130
    light levels, and that was adding in a lot of red to the standard
    greyscale to get it up from 100. However, this can show over 200.

    I wonder if anyone can see the difference?

    Steve
     
    Steve, Jun 17, 2006
    #10
  11. E. Scrooge Guest

    "JBS" <> wrote in message news:449364b9$...
    >
    > "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    > news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>> technology
    >>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow
    >>> CRTs out
    >>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>> bits per
    >>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>> gray-scales.
    >>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>> capable of.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >>
    >> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >> can
    >> max it out to 146"s.
    >>
    >> -N

    >
    > Are you talking about this projector:
    >
    > http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml
    >
    > If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher than the cost of many of the 32"
    > LCD TVs that are around, which are getting down to around $3000 for a
    > so-called hi definition capable one. How does the AE900 go with widescreen
    > movies, is it fundamentally a 16:9 version, or the old 4:3 version? Do the
    > latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms, the LCDs are pretty good
    > now in bright rooms. Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    > capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)? And I wonder how
    > the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?
    >
    > At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    > over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find
    > some and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough
    > dead pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs
    > which can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on
    > use).


    Apart from an idiot salesman at Bond & Bond and anyone else that says that
    projectors can't have dead pixels.
    It's pretty rare but it can happen as some people have on the projector
    central website have noticed it happen. When I asked about dead pixels, I
    was informed that "the picture is all created in the special LCD bulb"
    completely different from LCD monitors LOL. LCD projectors use a
    transparent LCD panel (perhaps up to 3 of them) with thousands of pixels.
    The AE 900 is a mid range high resolution XGA widescreen projector. Real
    good but a good SVGA projector isn't that far behind. DLP projectors aren't
    quite as sharp in the picture, both formats have their good points.
    The cost of a bulb is well worth it once you see what well adjusted
    projector can do on a 100 inch screen. A SVGA projector has one big
    advantage over widescreen projectors. Widescreen projectors produce black
    bars at the sides of the picture when in 4.3 ratio mode, the widescreen
    picture height remains the same at about 45 inches or so. 4.3 picture width
    reduces to about 60 inches. On a 4.3 native SVGA projector the 4.3 ration
    image covers the entire 100 inch screen. About 60 inches in height and
    about 82 inches wide. In 16.9 widescreen mode the SVGA projector still
    gives exactly the same size image as a widescreen projector does. Projector
    Central has a very useful calculator showing the image size on different
    brands and models of projectors from the screen. Also showing the
    difference when each projector is in either 4.3 or 16.9 modes.
    In a dark room it doesn't matter that AE 900 aren't as bright as some.

    It's a big choice choosing a projector, models are being replaced all the
    time. Toshiba has not only changed models but gone from LCD to DLP, while
    Infocus well known for DLP projectors now has a good LCD model in it's
    range.

    It was a good deal that made my choice of a first projector quite easy. An
    Epson SVGA S3 projector that came with a free 100 inch screen that made it a
    rare deal for a projector of such a low price range. The S3 also has a low
    cost bulb compared to most. On eco low mode it's bulb life is extended and
    the fan noise reduced down to about the same as a fairly quiet PC. Despite
    the on paper specs because it's brightness even when in low eco mode it
    gives real good contrast showing good levels of black on the screen. Best
    movie to sort out the settings on is the original Star Wars film. Apart
    from all the setting of colour and contrast etc, there's several special
    picture modes. Overall the Theatre mode is the best. My idea was to start
    cheap and see how it worked out instead of going expensive only to find that
    I would've been better off with a different model and in the other format.

    I'm not surprised that most owners have good things to say about the Epson
    S3. At times it's picture quality is as good as far more expensive
    projectors, and the skin tones are better than some of them.

    Projectors have improved a lot over the last 4 years, one can't go to far
    wrong with any of them. Only thing to watch is the cheaper DLP projectors
    that have less segments on their colour wheel that runs at 2X, while better
    DLP projectors run at least 4X and have 5 or 6 colour segments on their
    colour wheel. It's the speed of the colour wheel that reduces the rainbow
    effect that can trouble people who have sensitive eyes.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #11
  12. E. Scrooge Guest

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:1vdnb1wozk02s$...
    > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:11:11 +1200, JBS wrote:
    >
    >> "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >> news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>>> technology
    >>>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow
    >>>> CRTs
    >>>> out
    >>>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>>> bits per
    >>>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>>> gray-scales.
    >>>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>>> capable of.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
    >>>
    >>> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >>> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >>> can
    >>> max it out to 146"s.
    >>>
    >>> -N

    >>
    >> Are you talking about this projector:
    >>
    >> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >> If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher

    >
    > I got mine for $3,800 plus a free spare bulb worth $600.
    >
    >> than the cost of many of the 32" LCD TVs that are around, which are
    >> getting
    >> down to around $3000 for a so-called hi definition capable one.

    >
    > Why would I pay $3000 for a 32" LCD when I could pay just $800 more for
    > 146"s? With the projector I get way more value for money per inch.
    >
    >> How does the AE900 go with widescreen movies,

    >
    > Perfect.
    >
    >> is it fundamentally a 16:9 version,

    >
    > Native 16:9
    >
    >> or the old 4:3 version? Do the latest projectors work OK in brightly lit
    >> rooms,
    >> the LCDs are pretty good now in bright rooms.

    >
    > Not brightly lit. Most people watch TV in the evening and night, but if I
    > want to watch during the day I just close the curtains. I haven't needed
    > to
    > turn on my plasma since I've had the projector.
    >
    >> Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    >> capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)?

    >
    > It is HD ready, and I already make used of it playing HD games on the
    > xbox360.
    >
    >> And I wonder how the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony
    >> ones?

    >
    > I trialled the Sony HS60 in my home for a few days. It was pretty good,
    > but
    > I preferred the Panasonic picture over the Sony.
    >
    >> At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    >> over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find
    >> some
    >> and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough dead
    >> pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs
    >> which
    >> can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on use).

    >
    > Irrelevant really. I had a 36" Philips CRT TV and replaced it less than 2
    > years later with a 42" Plasma. Cost me thousands! Now I just need to
    > replace the bulb which is going to be a lot cheaper :eek:)
    >
    > -N


    And one isn't sitting in a completely dark room once the projector quickly
    warms up as the image on the screen makes it easy enough to see other people
    in the room.
    No TV can compare to a projector when watching movies. One of the best
    investments that one can make.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #12
  13. GraB Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:

    >
    >
    >Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD technology
    >recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs out
    >of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits per
    >color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step gray-scales.
    >The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >capable of.
    >
    >
    >http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6


    They aren't out yet and it will be ages before generally available LCD
    monitors are up to that standard. I have never been impressed with
    LCDs that I have seen and given the disappearing of CRT monitors I
    have been looking at LCDs. One that sounds good, though I haven't
    seen one yet, is Dells 24" widescreen 2407WFP as reviewed in the
    latest PC Authority mag.

    But check out the SED screen being developed by Toshiba and Canon:

    http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html

    Toshiba's Plasma/LCD Killer

    Toshiba took us into a dark demo room with three 42" SEDs inside. The
    sets displayed a variety of video, from a boat moving along the ocean
    at night to a woman examining a pretty artifact. We were continually
    amazed by how rich and deep the blacks were in these pictures, and
    always without sacrificing image detail. The graying effect commonly
    associated with low contrast ratios was not only missing from these
    videos, but the 16x9 "letterbox bars" were so deeply black that the
    pictures looked to be coming out of the nearby wall and not displayed
    on a television at all.

    It gets better. The prototype SEDs on-hand at CES 2006 are far from
    finished, according to company spokespersons. The sets we viewed were
    running in 720p and not the standard 1080p that SEDs will accommodate
    later this year. Meanwhile, the 42" SEDs we saw will be axed in favor
    of a base size that begins at 55", Toshiba promises. The SEDs will
    also deliver a 1 millisecond response time, which guarantees that
    blurring or refresh issues will be a thing of the past. And get this -
    craziest of all, the final SEDs will ship with a contrast ratio of
    100,000:1 to one. Yes, we wrote that correctly -- one-hundred thousand
    to one.

    But I don't suppose they will be making PC monitors with this
    technology, unless sometime in the future.
     
    GraB, Jun 17, 2006
    #13
  14. JBS Guest

    "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    news:1vdnb1wozk02s$...

    > Not brightly lit. Most people watch TV in the evening and night, but if I
    > want to watch during the day I just close the curtains. I haven't needed
    > to
    > turn on my plasma since I've had the projector.


    Thanks very much to Nihil and E Scrooge for your answers, they are most
    helpful. I wondered about the brightness of the AE 900 because of its
    (relatively low?) 1100 ANSI lumens rating, someone told me that you need
    around 2000 ANSI lumens for a picture that you can watch in bright light.
    The Sony HS60 has 1200 ANSI lumens, but it's pricey at a recommended retail
    of $5,000 when the AE 900 is now on Panasonic's New Zealand web site for
    $4,000.


    > I trialled the Sony HS60 in my home for a few days. It was pretty good,
    > but
    > I preferred the Panasonic picture over the Sony.


    The Sony HS60 has a contrast ratio of 10,000:1, while the AE700 has 5500:1.
    I am not sure whether the Sony picture would be noticeably better because of
    its increased contrast specification?

    Based on Scrooge's experience, a look at the Epson S3 would also be very
    worthwhile.

    Everyone talks about 100 inch pictures, but I guess you could project a
    modest 32 inch picture if you want to, that would rival the picture of a 32
    inch LCD or Plasma TV?

    I guess all the projectors we have talked about would work OK with
    computers, so that you could run Power Point shows etc?

    Regards, JBS
     
    JBS, Jun 17, 2006
    #14
  15. E. Scrooge Guest

    "JBS" <> wrote in message news:449392a6$...
    >
    > "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    > news:1vdnb1wozk02s$...
    >
    >> Not brightly lit. Most people watch TV in the evening and night, but if I
    >> want to watch during the day I just close the curtains. I haven't needed
    >> to
    >> turn on my plasma since I've had the projector.

    >
    > Thanks very much to Nihil and E Scrooge for your answers, they are most
    > helpful. I wondered about the brightness of the AE 900 because of its
    > (relatively low?) 1100 ANSI lumens rating, someone told me that you need
    > around 2000 ANSI lumens for a picture that you can watch in bright light.
    > The Sony HS60 has 1200 ANSI lumens, but it's pricey at a recommended
    > retail of $5,000 when the AE 900 is now on Panasonic's New Zealand web
    > site for $4,000.
    >
    >
    >> I trialled the Sony HS60 in my home for a few days. It was pretty good,
    >> but
    >> I preferred the Panasonic picture over the Sony.

    >
    > The Sony HS60 has a contrast ratio of 10,000:1, while the AE700 has
    > 5500:1. I am not sure whether the Sony picture would be noticeably better
    > because of its increased contrast specification?
    >
    > Based on Scrooge's experience, a look at the Epson S3 would also be very
    > worthwhile.
    >
    > Everyone talks about 100 inch pictures, but I guess you could project a
    > modest 32 inch picture if you want to, that would rival the picture of a
    > 32 inch LCD or Plasma TV?
    >
    > I guess all the projectors we have talked about would work OK with
    > computers, so that you could run Power Point shows etc?
    >
    > Regards, JBS


    A 100 inch projected picture is better than what one would expect for other
    than just DVD movies. I've got 4.3 ratio DVDs of a few TV shows, and they
    don't look blocky pixeled at all. Even SVCDs I've made look good on the
    projector. Poor quality video can look a lot worse when projected.
    As for contrast numbers, the S3 make up for it with a good bright bulb even
    when on low mode, and the low mode is better than high mode in a darkened
    room. I don't have the contrast setting full on, just close to it. At full
    contrast lighter colours become to bright. The brightness setting is set
    to -2. Colour is on about -20. Out of the box it's like the TVs on demo in
    the store with too much colour satuation. Sales twits think it's great
    having hippy style pastel looking colours.
    If you plan on using a computer on it then LCD projectors will give a
    sharper picture. The Epson S3 is quite different from the S1 and S1H
    previously. Like the S3 other projectors will have different modes for when
    using with computers. The S3 has a game mode, sports mode, presentation
    mode, rgb mode, black and white mode (it's meant for making pictures from
    the computer look better, it doesn't actually make them black and white).
    Best mode in general is the theatre mode.

    Setting up the picture position on the screen is pretty easy. There's
    different position settings and zoom settings. Other projectors will be
    much the same as well.
    IMO LCD projectors show a lot of fast action better than DLP projectors can.
    When you see the fast action in Star Wars you don't want to see bits of
    badly pixeled with jagged laser blasts etc.

    This is the best projector website to check out. It also says which
    projectors are still in production and which are not. When checking on the
    reviews you can see what actual owners of the projectors have to say about
    them and how they rate their projectors. Seeing how reliable the Epson is
    from the reviews made a big difference as well in my first choice.
    http://www.projectorcentral.com/

    This is the handy calulator for the S3, you can try other models as well.
    You can move the little projector back and forth to see the difference it
    makes. Also switch from 4.3 to widescreen 16.9 to see how it looks on the
    screen as well.
    http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_S3-projection-calculator-pro.htm

    Mine is about 12 feet from the screen. I view it from about 14 feet back
    which seems to be good distance to view all the action from.

    Don't feel that you need a special screen, after all the special roll up PVC
    blind normally costs about $500. A good prejector will work well on light
    coloured wall. I've had the image overflow onto the wall with hardly any
    difference. The good thing about a proper screen is that it has black
    borders round it making the picture stand out more. Better to get a deal
    where they give you a screen for free with the projector. The whole lot
    fits easily into an average size car. Be damn lucky squeezing a large rear
    projection TV into car. Rear projection TVs give a bloody awful picture
    compared to projectors in a lot of cases, in the lower price ranges at
    least.

    Movies are quite different when on a large screen, as Nihil will well know.
    Little details that are easily missed on a TV can be quite easily spotted a
    lot better. Seing close ups of people life size or even slightly bigger
    also looks a damn sight better than compared to TVs.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #15
  16. Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:21:19 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    (*sling)> wrote:

    >
    >"Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>> technology
    >>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>> out
    >>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>> bits per
    >>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>> gray-scales.
    >>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>> capable of.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >>
    >> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >> can
    >> max it out to 146"s.
    >>
    >> -N

    >
    >Your projector uses LCD technology.
    >Granted like my projector it looks better than many LCD TVs do. When it
    >comes to store demos, a lot of them are badly adjusted and store projectors
    >must be about the worse setup appliance of the lot in some places.
    >
    >E. Scrooge
    >




    Their are some 4 or more LCD Systems used in LCD Projector , some are way
    better than others and that is not DLP ones..
     
    , Jun 17, 2006
    #16
  17. Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:11:11 +1200, "JBS" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>> technology
    >>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs
    >>> out
    >>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>> bits per
    >>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>> gray-scales.
    >>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>> capable of.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >>
    >> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >> can
    >> max it out to 146"s.
    >>
    >> -N

    >
    >Are you talking about this projector:
    >
    >http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml
    >
    >If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher than the cost of many of the 32"
    >LCD TVs that are around, which are getting down to around $3000 for a
    >so-called hi definition capable one. How does the AE900 go with widescreen
    >movies, is it fundamentally a 16:9 version, or the old 4:3 version? Do the
    >latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms, the LCDs are pretty good
    >now in bright rooms. Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    >capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)? And I wonder how
    >the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?
    >
    >At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    >over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find some
    >and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough dead
    >pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs which
    >can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on use).
    >




    LCD Projectors have the Same problems, and HD TV is a none event go read the
    news, DRM requirements on all the HD devices..
     
    , Jun 17, 2006
    #17
  18. Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:28:42 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    (*sling)> wrote:

    >
    >"JBS" <> wrote in message news:449364b9$...
    >>
    >> "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >> news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>>> technology
    >>>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow
    >>>> CRTs out
    >>>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>>> bits per
    >>>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>>> gray-scales.
    >>>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>>> capable of.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
    >>>
    >>> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma and
    >>> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >>> can
    >>> max it out to 146"s.
    >>>
    >>> -N

    >>
    >> Are you talking about this projector:
    >>
    >> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml
    >>
    >> If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher than the cost of many of the 32"
    >> LCD TVs that are around, which are getting down to around $3000 for a
    >> so-called hi definition capable one. How does the AE900 go with widescreen
    >> movies, is it fundamentally a 16:9 version, or the old 4:3 version? Do the
    >> latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms, the LCDs are pretty good
    >> now in bright rooms. Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high definition
    >> capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)? And I wonder how
    >> the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?
    >>
    >> At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels hanging
    >> over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find
    >> some and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough
    >> dead pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing bulbs
    >> which can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on
    >> use).

    >
    >Apart from an idiot salesman at Bond & Bond and anyone else that says that
    >projectors can't have dead pixels.
    >It's pretty rare but it can happen as some people have on the projector
    >central website have noticed it happen. When I asked about dead pixels, I
    >was informed that "the picture is all created in the special LCD bulb"
    >completely different from LCD monitors LOL. LCD projectors use a
    >transparent LCD panel (perhaps up to 3 of them) with thousands of pixels.
    >The AE 900 is a mid range high resolution XGA widescreen projector. Real
    >good but a good SVGA projector isn't that far behind. DLP projectors aren't
    >quite as sharp in the picture, both formats have their good points.
    >The cost of a bulb is well worth it once you see what well adjusted
    >projector can do on a 100 inch screen. A SVGA projector has one big
    >advantage over widescreen projectors. Widescreen projectors produce black
    >bars at the sides of the picture when in 4.3 ratio mode, the widescreen
    >picture height remains the same at about 45 inches or so. 4.3 picture width
    >reduces to about 60 inches. On a 4.3 native SVGA projector the 4.3 ration
    >image covers the entire 100 inch screen. About 60 inches in height and
    >about 82 inches wide. In 16.9 widescreen mode the SVGA projector still
    >gives exactly the same size image as a widescreen projector does. Projector
    >Central has a very useful calculator showing the image size on different
    >brands and models of projectors from the screen. Also showing the
    >difference when each projector is in either 4.3 or 16.9 modes.
    >In a dark room it doesn't matter that AE 900 aren't as bright as some.
    >
    >It's a big choice choosing a projector, models are being replaced all the
    >time. Toshiba has not only changed models but gone from LCD to DLP, while
    >Infocus well known for DLP projectors now has a good LCD model in it's
    >range.


    >Projectors have improved a lot over the last 4 years, one can't go to far
    >wrong with any of them. Only thing to watch is the cheaper DLP projectors
    >that have less segments on their colour wheel that runs at 2X, while better
    >DLP projectors run at least 4X and have 5 or 6 colour segments on their
    >colour wheel. It's the speed of the colour wheel that reduces the rainbow
    >effect that can trouble people who have sensitive eyes.
    >
    >E. Scrooge
    >



    And Better if you can call it have 3 DLP devices, my Home theater mate that
    runs a Home Theater business world wide, would not touch a DLP projector of
    any kind..
     
    , Jun 17, 2006
    #18
  19. Guest

    On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:41:57 +1200, GraB <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD technology
    >>recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow CRTs out
    >>of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12 bits per
    >>color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step gray-scales.
    >>The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT is
    >>capable of.
    >>
    >>
    >>http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6

    >
    >They aren't out yet and it will be ages before generally available LCD
    >monitors are up to that standard. I have never been impressed with
    >LCDs that I have seen and given the disappearing of CRT monitors I
    >have been looking at LCDs. One that sounds good, though I haven't
    >seen one yet, is Dells 24" widescreen 2407WFP as reviewed in the
    >latest PC Authority mag.
    >
    >But check out the SED screen being developed by Toshiba and Canon:
    >
    >http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html
    >
    >Toshiba's Plasma/LCD Killer
    >
    >Toshiba took us into a dark demo room with three 42" SEDs inside. The
    >sets displayed a variety of video, from a boat moving along the ocean
    >at night to a woman examining a pretty artifact. We were continually
    >amazed by how rich and deep the blacks were in these pictures, and
    >always without sacrificing image detail. The graying effect commonly
    >associated with low contrast ratios was not only missing from these
    >videos, but the 16x9 "letterbox bars" were so deeply black that the
    >pictures looked to be coming out of the nearby wall and not displayed
    >on a television at all.
    >
    >It gets better. The prototype SEDs on-hand at CES 2006 are far from
    >finished, according to company spokespersons. The sets we viewed were
    >running in 720p and not the standard 1080p that SEDs will accommodate
    >later this year. Meanwhile, the 42" SEDs we saw will be axed in favor
    >of a base size that begins at 55", Toshiba promises. The SEDs will
    >also deliver a 1 millisecond response time, which guarantees that
    >blurring or refresh issues will be a thing of the past. And get this -
    >craziest of all, the final SEDs will ship with a contrast ratio of
    >100,000:1 to one. Yes, we wrote that correctly -- one-hundred thousand
    >to one.




    Please Please tell my why do you need a 1 MS Refresh rate on a 50/60HZ screen
    refresh rate, or a 100HZ one..?


    >But I don't suppose they will be making PC monitors with this
    >technology, unless sometime in the future.
     
    , Jun 17, 2006
    #19
  20. E. Scrooge Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:28:42 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz
    > (*sling)> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"JBS" <> wrote in message news:449364b9$...
    >>>
    >>> "Nihil" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:q8mh7dy27s16$...
    >>>> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:03:56 +1200, wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Bearing the uber-popular High Dynamic Range word-combo, the new LCD
    >>>>> technology
    >>>>> recently demonstrated by eCinema Systems is supposed to finally blow
    >>>>> CRTs out
    >>>>> of the water (and market). The new HDR technology comes with 10 to 12
    >>>>> bits per
    >>>>> color channel (for 30 to 36 bit displays) or 1000 to 4000 step
    >>>>> gray-scales.
    >>>>> The contrast level ratio is around 30000:1, well beyond what any CRT
    >>>>> is
    >>>>> capable of.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.tcmagazine.info/comments.php?shownews=12172&catid=6
    >>>>
    >>>> Pah! My projector (panny AE900) has a better picture than any plasma
    >>>> and
    >>>> LCD I've seen and at 5.5 meters I have a minimum screen size of 73" and
    >>>> can
    >>>> max it out to 146"s.
    >>>>
    >>>> -N
    >>>
    >>> Are you talking about this projector:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2005/panasonic_900.shtml
    >>>
    >>> If so, the price of $4495 is a lot higher than the cost of many of the
    >>> 32"
    >>> LCD TVs that are around, which are getting down to around $3000 for a
    >>> so-called hi definition capable one. How does the AE900 go with
    >>> widescreen
    >>> movies, is it fundamentally a 16:9 version, or the old 4:3 version? Do
    >>> the
    >>> latest projectors work OK in brightly lit rooms, the LCDs are pretty
    >>> good
    >>> now in bright rooms. Is the Panasonic AE 900 likely to be high
    >>> definition
    >>> capable with SKY high def broadcasts (when this happens)? And I wonder
    >>> how
    >>> the Panasonic projectors compare to the equivalent Sony ones?
    >>>
    >>> At least with projectors, you don't have the worry of dead pixels
    >>> hanging
    >>> over you and the arguments that follow with manufacturers when you find
    >>> some and can't get your LCD replaced because there aren't quite enough
    >>> dead pixels! But with projectors you do have to live with replacing
    >>> bulbs
    >>> which can cost you several hundred dollars every few years (depending on
    >>> use).

    >>
    >>Apart from an idiot salesman at Bond & Bond and anyone else that says that
    >>projectors can't have dead pixels.
    >>It's pretty rare but it can happen as some people have on the projector
    >>central website have noticed it happen. When I asked about dead pixels, I
    >>was informed that "the picture is all created in the special LCD bulb"
    >>completely different from LCD monitors LOL. LCD projectors use a
    >>transparent LCD panel (perhaps up to 3 of them) with thousands of pixels.
    >>The AE 900 is a mid range high resolution XGA widescreen projector. Real
    >>good but a good SVGA projector isn't that far behind. DLP projectors
    >>aren't
    >>quite as sharp in the picture, both formats have their good points.
    >>The cost of a bulb is well worth it once you see what well adjusted
    >>projector can do on a 100 inch screen. A SVGA projector has one big
    >>advantage over widescreen projectors. Widescreen projectors produce
    >>black
    >>bars at the sides of the picture when in 4.3 ratio mode, the widescreen
    >>picture height remains the same at about 45 inches or so. 4.3 picture
    >>width
    >>reduces to about 60 inches. On a 4.3 native SVGA projector the 4.3 ration
    >>image covers the entire 100 inch screen. About 60 inches in height and
    >>about 82 inches wide. In 16.9 widescreen mode the SVGA projector still
    >>gives exactly the same size image as a widescreen projector does.
    >>Projector
    >>Central has a very useful calculator showing the image size on different
    >>brands and models of projectors from the screen. Also showing the
    >>difference when each projector is in either 4.3 or 16.9 modes.
    >>In a dark room it doesn't matter that AE 900 aren't as bright as some.
    >>
    >>It's a big choice choosing a projector, models are being replaced all the
    >>time. Toshiba has not only changed models but gone from LCD to DLP, while
    >>Infocus well known for DLP projectors now has a good LCD model in it's
    >>range.

    >
    >>Projectors have improved a lot over the last 4 years, one can't go to far
    >>wrong with any of them. Only thing to watch is the cheaper DLP projectors
    >>that have less segments on their colour wheel that runs at 2X, while
    >>better
    >>DLP projectors run at least 4X and have 5 or 6 colour segments on their
    >>colour wheel. It's the speed of the colour wheel that reduces the rainbow
    >>effect that can trouble people who have sensitive eyes.
    >>
    >>E. Scrooge
    >>

    >
    >
    > And Better if you can call it have 3 DLP devices, my Home theater mate
    > that
    > runs a Home Theater business world wide, would not touch a DLP projector
    > of
    > any kind..


    Does he find DLP projectors to be less reliable?

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 17, 2006
    #20
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