New Firewire 800

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by GraB, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. GraB

    GraB Guest

    GraB, Apr 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. In article <>, GraB <> wrote:
    >http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >
    >"Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    >devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    >for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"
    >

    USB2 is a hack. Intel couldn't bear Apple having come up with a
    high-speed plug'n'play device connection spec, so they had to produce
    one of their own.
    It's hardly surprising that 1394b is superior in other ways -
    host-to-host connection being but one of many.

    >I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?

    Probably gets drawn through the motherboard. There're some very hefty
    power connectors on new PSUs.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. GraB

    Brendon Guest

    GraB wrote:
    > http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >
    > "Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    > devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    > for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"
    >
    > I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?


    Strange - I have a portable 40GB hard drive running solely on USB right
    now. No power, just USB - works fine.

    Brendon
    Brendon, Apr 3, 2005
    #3
  4. Brendon wrote:
    >> http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >> "Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    >> devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    >> for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"


    > Strange - I have a portable 40GB hard drive running solely on USB right
    > now. No power, just USB - works fine.


    as do I, except mines smaller(only 20GB)
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Apr 4, 2005
    #4
  5. GraB

    thing Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > In article <>, GraB <> wrote:
    >
    >>http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >>
    >>"Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    >>devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    >>for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"
    >>

    >
    > USB2 is a hack. Intel couldn't bear Apple having come up with a
    > high-speed plug'n'play device connection spec, so they had to produce
    > one of their own.
    > It's hardly surprising that 1394b is superior in other ways -
    > host-to-host connection being but one of many.
    >
    >
    >>I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?

    >
    > Probably gets drawn through the motherboard. There're some very hefty
    > power connectors on new PSUs.
    >



    USB 2 seems an awful fudge compred to firewire....nominally the USB
    speed is higher. Except in having a usb and a firewire hd & burner, I
    find the firewire mode is way faster, and for burning more
    reliable...USB also seems to need drivers added to fix SUB chipset
    cludges I assume, these often seem flaky where firwire seems to be plug
    it in and go.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Apr 4, 2005
    #5
  6. GraB

    mark Guest

    Brendon <> wrote in news:UAZ3e.702$E%3.166@newsfe3-
    win.ntli.net:

    > Subject: Re: New Firewire 800
    > From: Brendon <>
    > Newsgroups: nz.comp
    >
    > GraB wrote:
    >> http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >>
    >> "Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    >> devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    >> for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"
    >>
    >> I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?

    >
    > Strange - I have a portable 40GB hard drive running solely on USB right
    > now. No power, just USB - works fine.
    >
    > Brendon



    That will be a (low power) laptop hard drive right? I do the same, though
    it must be borderline, since if I use a short cable it works, but if I use
    a slightly longer cable the drive fails to spin up.

    I wonder if they mean full size drives, which are need 12V, not just 5V?


    --
    ---

    A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message.
    Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?

    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post
    mark, Apr 4, 2005
    #6
  7. GraB

    Gordon Guest

    On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 03:24:55 +1200, GraB wrote:

    > http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >
    > "Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run simple
    > devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of power, enough
    > for portable hard drives and other devices to run without AC"
    >
    > I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?


    Well some graphics cards have done so for sometime now.
    Gordon, Apr 4, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <>, thing <> wrote:
    >Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >USB 2 seems an awful fudge compred to firewire

    *SNIP*

    It is. 1394 was designed from the start to be a high-speed transfer bus
    for use in things like post-production and digital video.
    USB2 is a cludge on top of USB1, to allow it to transfer at higher
    speeds. The real clincher will be if any attempt is made to have USB
    compete with 1394b, or with the apparent max of the 1394 spec -
    1600Mbps.

    USB should've been left for minor peripherals. It does that well. The
    fact that only one version of USB2 is theoretically faster than the only
    version of 1394a says a lot about what a shambles the entire design
    process was.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 4, 2005
    #8
  9. In <Xns962EA4F667E5Csometimes2003@213.155.197.138> mark wrote:
    > Brendon <> wrote in news:UAZ3e.702$E%3.166@newsfe3-
    > win.ntli.net:
    >
    >> Subject: Re: New Firewire 800
    >> From: Brendon <>
    >> Newsgroups: nz.comp
    >>
    >> GraB wrote:
    >>> http://www.firewiredirect.com/firewire/productinfo/firewire800.shtml
    >>>
    >>> "Power to the bus - USB 2.0 allows 2.5W of power, enough to run
    >>> simple devices like mice. Firewire allows for a big time 45W of
    >>> power, enough for portable hard drives and other devices to run
    >>> without AC" I imagine 45W would require a connection from the PSU?

    >>
    >> Strange - I have a portable 40GB hard drive running solely on USB
    >> right now. No power, just USB - works fine. Brendon

    >
    >
    > That will be a (low power) laptop hard drive right? I do the same,
    > though it must be borderline, since if I use a short cable it works,
    > but if I use a slightly longer cable the drive fails to spin up.
    >
    > I wonder if they mean full size drives, which are need 12V, not just
    > 5V?


    I just bought a new 80GB 3.5" hard drive and noticed the power
    consumption listed in the specs for it was 8 watts, far too much for USB.
    The voltage and maximum current a FireWire port supplies is up to the
    manufacturer, but I remember my lowly eMac's FireWire ports were rated
    at 8W.


    --
    Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
    http://vintageware.orcon.net.nz/
    ________________________________________________________________________
    No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would all the calculators go?

    Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode "The Last Day"
    Roger Johnstone, Apr 4, 2005
    #9
  10. In article <>, whoisthis <> wrote:
    >In article <d2qqpq$240$>,
    > (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >> speeds. The real clincher will be if any attempt is made to have USB
    >> compete with 1394b, or with the apparent max of the 1394 spec -
    >> 1600Mbps.

    >
    >I think they are going to skip the 1600Mbs and go to 3200Mbs.
    >

    *SNIP*

    Who, Intel or Apple?

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 4, 2005
    #10
  11. GraB

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <d2qqpq$240$>,
    (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    > In article <>, thing
    > <> wrote:
    > >Matthew Poole wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    > >USB 2 seems an awful fudge compred to firewire

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > It is. 1394 was designed from the start to be a high-speed transfer bus
    > for use in things like post-production and digital video.
    > USB2 is a cludge on top of USB1, to allow it to transfer at higher
    > speeds. The real clincher will be if any attempt is made to have USB
    > compete with 1394b, or with the apparent max of the 1394 spec -
    > 1600Mbps.


    I think they are going to skip the 1600Mbs and go to 3200Mbs.
    >
    > USB should've been left for minor peripherals. It does that well. The
    > fact that only one version of USB2 is theoretically faster than the only
    > version of 1394a says a lot about what a shambles the entire design
    > process was.


    LOL, USB2 has a higher clock rate but a much slower real life data
    transfer rate. Its a massive kludge alright.
    whoisthis, Apr 4, 2005
    #11
  12. In <d2r0j7$epr$> Matthew Poole wrote:
    > In article <>, whoisthis <who@
    > am.i.spammer> wrote:
    >>In article <d2qqpq$240$>,
    >> (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    >>> speeds. The real clincher will be if any attempt is made to have
    >>> USB compete with 1394b, or with the apparent max of the 1394 spec -
    >>> 1600Mbps.

    >>
    >>I think they are going to skip the 1600Mbs and go to 3200Mbs.
    >>

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > Who, Intel or Apple?


    FireWire. The original IEEE 1394 specification allows for speeds of 100,
    200 or 400 Mbit/s. IEEE 1394b (aka FireWire 800) adds speeds of 800,
    1600 and 3200 Mbit/s. You can't yet _buy_ anything faster than 800 Mbit/
    s, but the standard has already been set and presumably tested in the
    lab, so that when the hardware is available it'll just plug in and work.

    --
    Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
    http://vintageware.orcon.net.nz/
    ________________________________________________________________________
    No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would all the calculators go?

    Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode "The Last Day"
    Roger Johnstone, Apr 4, 2005
    #12
  13. In article <>, Roger Johnstone <> wrote:
    >In <d2r0j7$epr$> Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    >FireWire. The original IEEE 1394 specification allows for speeds of 100,
    >200 or 400 Mbit/s. IEEE 1394b (aka FireWire 800) adds speeds of 800,
    >1600 and 3200 Mbit/s. You can't yet _buy_ anything faster than 800 Mbit/
    >s, but the standard has already been set and presumably tested in the
    >lab, so that when the hardware is available it'll just plug in and work.
    >

    Ahhhhhhhhhhh, OK. I'd always been of the understanding that b was just
    the implementation of the 800Mb speed from the original 1394 spec.
    Nice that it scales so well, though. I have no doubts that 3200Mb/s
    will actully work at a very large percentage of its claimed speed,
    either - unlike USB2, and whatever other bastardisations of USB may yet
    come out of Intel.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Apr 4, 2005
    #13
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