Never a better time to jettison that P&S

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    Amazing.
    RichA, Jun 14, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Irwell Guest

    On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:

    > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > Amazing.


    Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    the pics on.
    Irwell, Jun 14, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    DanP Guest

    On Jun 14, 2:20 am, RichA <> wrote:
    > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > Amazing.


    Isn't that plastic?

    DanP
    DanP, Jun 14, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    In article
    <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > Amazing.


    I already have a Canon Rebel XT. I haven't touched it since I bought a
    P&S camera with a 30x optical lens. No more back breaking days carrying
    around a ton of camera gear for me! Why do you think that XT is so cheap?
    Shawn Hirn, Jun 14, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Shawn Hirn <> wrote:
    >In article
    ><>,
    > RichA <> wrote:
    >
    >> Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    >> Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    >> 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    >> had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    >> Amazing.

    >
    >I already have a Canon Rebel XT. I haven't touched it since I bought a
    >P&S camera with a 30x optical lens.



    Wow! An "optical" lens, eh?

    All the best lenses are "optical", like this one:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220784775346
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jun 13, 9:45 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    > > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    > > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > > Amazing.

    >
    > Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    > the pics on.


    Sure it's older, but it STILL has an APS sensor which is better than
    any current P&S.
    RichA, Jun 14, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >On Jun 13, 9:45 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    >> > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    >> > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    >> > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    >> > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    >> > Amazing.

    >>
    >> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    >> the pics on.

    >
    >Sure it's older, but it STILL has an APS sensor which is better than
    >any current P&S.



    Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    cameras has massively improved. Faced with the choice of a new, low
    noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    generation 18-55mm lens, you would have to be mad to choose the DSLR.

    You yourself have branded as unacceptable Sony's second generation
    18-55mm lens for the NEX system, a lens that most people consider to
    be pretty good. So why are you now recommending a first generation
    18-55mm lens whose optical performance is much worse?

    Does not compute.

    So what will be your next "recommendation"? An Olympus E-1?
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    Guest

    On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:13:27 -0700, in rec.photo.digital Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2011-06-13 18:45:02 -0700, Irwell <> said:
    >
    >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    >>
    >>> Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    >>> Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    >>> 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    >>> had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    >>> Amazing.

    >>
    >> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    >> the pics on.

    >
    >...and here I was thinking Sinclair ZX80.



    Myself, I'm partial to an Intertec Superbrain.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
    , Jun 14, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:22:00 +0100, Bruce <>
    wrote:

    >RichA <> wrote:
    >>On Jun 13, 9:45 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    >>> > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    >>> > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    >>> > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    >>> > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    >>> > Amazing.
    >>>
    >>> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    >>> the pics on.

    >>
    >>Sure it's older, but it STILL has an APS sensor which is better than
    >>any current P&S.

    >
    >
    >Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    >cameras has massively improved. Faced with the choice of a new, low
    >noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    >generation 18-55mm lens, you would have to be mad to choose the DSLR.


    Unless you're a photography student (academically- or self-taught) on
    a tight budget.

    Think of it as a trainer.
    John A., Jun 14, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jun 14, 9:22 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > >On Jun 13, 9:45 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    > >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    > >> > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > >> > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    > >> > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > >> > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > >> > Amazing.

    >
    > >> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    > >> the pics on.

    >
    > >Sure it's older, but it STILL has an APS sensor which is better than
    > >any current P&S.

    >
    > Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    > cameras has massively improved.  Faced with the choice of a new, low
    > noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    > generation 18-55mm lens


    Then get a later lens. Same price.
    RichA, Jun 14, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jun 14, 9:52 am, wrote:
    > On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:13:27 -0700, in rec.photo.digital Savageduck
    >
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > >On 2011-06-13 18:45:02 -0700, Irwell <> said:

    >
    > >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:

    >
    > >>> Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > >>> Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    > >>> 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > >>> had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > >>> Amazing.

    >
    > >> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    > >> the pics on.

    >
    > >...and here I was thinking Sinclair ZX80.

    >
    > Myself, I'm partial to an Intertec Superbrain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain


    Half the price of the IBM PC. Not bad.
    RichA, Jun 14, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    DanP Guest

    On Jun 14, 12:00 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > Shawn Hirn <> wrote:
    > >In article
    > ><>,
    > > RichA <> wrote:

    >
    > >> Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    > >> Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00.  Add a used
    > >> 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    > >> had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    > >> Amazing.

    >
    > >I already have a Canon Rebel XT. I haven't touched it since I bought a
    > >P&S camera with a 30x optical lens.

    >
    > Wow!  An "optical" lens, eh?  
    >
    > All the best lenses are "optical", like this one:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220784775346


    Optical AND color.


    DanP
    DanP, Jun 14, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Mike Guest

    Mike, Jun 14, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    DanP Guest

    On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    > cameras has massively improved.  Faced with the choice of a new, low
    > noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    > generation 18-55mm lens, you would have to be mad to choose the DSLR.


    Complete rubbish. See http://goo.gl/J1ELj
    And the second generation 18-55mm is still dirt cheap.
    Then get the 50mm f/1.8 and be amazed.

    DanP
    DanP, Jun 14, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >On Jun 14, 9:22 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> RichA <> wrote:
    >> >On Jun 13, 9:45 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    >> >> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:20:11 -0700 (PDT), RichA wrote:
    >> >> > Henry's Camera Outlet store in Mississauga, Ontario (outskirts of
    >> >> > Toronto) was selling refurb Canon Rebel XT's for $99.00. Add a used
    >> >> > 18-55mm kit lens for about $50-$60 and you are in business. They also
    >> >> > had higher model Canons at similar savings.
    >> >> > Amazing.

    >>
    >> >> Don't forget to add a Commodore PET computer to view
    >> >> the pics on.

    >>
    >> >Sure it's older, but it STILL has an APS sensor which is better than
    >> >any current P&S.

    >>
    >> Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    >> cameras has massively improved.  Faced with the choice of a new, low
    >> noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    >> generation 18-55mm lens

    >
    >Then get a later lens. Same price.



    Unless you are very lucky, you will have to pay a lot more. And
    you're still going to be stuck with a noisy camera that smudges detail
    and has poor dynamic range.

    Unfortunately, Rich, you are very out of touch with the recent
    development of P&S cameras. Six years ago, the Canon Rebel XT offered
    a step change in quality over a typical 2005 P&S. Today, you would
    have to buy at least a Canon EOS 60D to obtain a similar step change
    in quality over a typical 2011 P&S.

    The fact is that the greatest progress in image quality in the last
    five or six years has been in P&S.

    Now compare the 2005 Canon Rebel XT with a typical 2011 P&S. The
    difference in image quality is actually quite small.

    The high ISO performance of the Rebel XT won't be much better. You
    will gain more control over depth of field. However, my recent retail
    experience has taught me that restricted depth of field is a problem
    for many who have graduated from a P&S.

    We get a lot of complaints at our minilabs about shots that are out of
    focus. Naturally, they blame our minilabs, but we point out as
    politely as humanly possible that some parts of the picture are sharp,
    just not the subject(s). We now offer free tutorials for anyone who
    has bought a camera with a Four Thirds or larger sensor, and focusing
    issues are a major feature.

    Anyway, to sum up, there is a good reason why a six year old Canon
    Rebel XT can be bought so cheaply; $99 is all it is worth.
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jun 14, 1:58 pm, Bruce <> wrote:

    > The fact is that the greatest progress in image quality in the last
    > five or six years has been in P&S.


    What was it someone said about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear?

    > Now compare the 2005 Canon Rebel XT with a typical 2011 P&S.  The
    > difference in image quality is actually quite small.  


    > Anyway, to sum up, there is a good reason why a six year old Canon
    > Rebel XT can be bought so cheaply; $99 is all it is worth.


    B.S. on both counts. P.S. take a look at what they sell used with no
    warranty on Ebay. Hint: Not $99.00. But your attitude is not
    surprising, seeing as your existence depends on selling new cameras.
    RichA, Jun 14, 2011
    #16
  17. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >On Jun 14, 1:58 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >
    >> The fact is that the greatest progress in image quality in the last
    >> five or six years has been in P&S.

    >
    >What was it someone said about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear?



    P&S digicams still represent the vast majority of camera sales. They
    are small, cheap and convenient - features that the people buying them
    mostly value above performance. Only a few people want to carry a
    heavy, bulky DSLR and heavy, bulky lenses. That's why small, light
    DSLRs are the most popular, and why manufacturers go to great lengths
    to make cameras and lenses smaller and lighter still. It is also why
    mirrorless CSCs (compact system cameras) have been such a huge hit,
    especially in markets outside north America.


    >> Now compare the 2005 Canon Rebel XT with a typical 2011 P&S.  The
    >> difference in image quality is actually quite small.  

    >
    >> Anyway, to sum up, there is a good reason why a six year old Canon
    >> Rebel XT can be bought so cheaply; $99 is all it is worth.

    >
    >B.S. on both counts.



    How would you know? Because you are such a snob you have not the
    faintest idea how much P&S cameras have improved over the last few
    years. In many ways, particularly overall image quality, they have
    improved more rapidly than DSLRs.


    >P.S. take a look at what they sell used with no
    >warranty on Ebay. Hint: Not $99.00. But your attitude is not
    >surprising, seeing as your existence depends on selling new cameras.



    We don't sell low-end P&S cameras. We sell top of the range P&S,
    superzoom/bridge cameras, mirrorless CSCs, DSLRs and Leica
    rangefinders. So my existence doesn't depend on selling P&S cameras.

    Plus, my opinions and attitudes have been formed over many years. They
    haven't changed because of my recent involvement in retail - I don't
    even know yet whether that will be temporary or permanent.
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    DanP <> wrote:

    >On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    >> cameras has massively improved.  Faced with the choice of a new, low
    >> noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    >> generation 18-55mm lens, you would have to be mad to choose the DSLR.

    >
    >Complete rubbish. See http://goo.gl/J1ELj



    Now "that* is complete rubbish, because you are comparing cameras that
    we aren't even discussing!

    Do keep up, ;-)


    >And the second generation 18-55mm is still dirt cheap.
    >Then get the 50mm f/1.8 and be amazed.



    But hardly anyone wants fixed focal length lenses. Almost everyone
    wants a zoom lens. And the zoom lens they want the most is the one
    with a massive zoom range so that they don't ever have to change
    lenses on their interchangeable-lens camera. Go figure.
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    DanP <> wrote:
    >On Jun 14, 12:00 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> Shawn Hirn <> wrote:
    >> >I already have a Canon Rebel XT. I haven't touched it since I bought a
    >> >P&S camera with a 30x optical lens.

    >>
    >> Wow!  An "optical" lens, eh?  
    >>
    >> All the best lenses are "optical", like this one:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220784775346
    >
    >Optical AND color.



    The best kind of lens, yes. ;-)
    Bruce, Jun 14, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    DanP Guest

    On Jun 14, 7:50 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > DanP <> wrote:
    > >On Jun 14, 2:22 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > >> Since the Rebel XT (EOS 350D) was made, the image quality from P&S
    > >> cameras has massively improved. Faced with the choice of a new, low
    > >> noise P&S and a noisy six year old Rebel XT with an atrocious first
    > >> generation 18-55mm lens, you would have to be mad to choose the DSLR.

    >
    > >Complete rubbish. Seehttp://goo.gl/J1ELj

    >
    > Now "that* is complete rubbish, because you are comparing cameras that
    > we aren't even discussing!


    You are discussing new P&S, G12 is one of them.
    The other, the PEN is there to show a very old APSC beats anything
    with a smaller sensor.
    Massive improvement it is. But not massive enough to beat the XT.

    > Do keep up,  ;-)
    >
    > >And the second generation 18-55mm is still dirt cheap.
    > >Then get the 50mm f/1.8 and be amazed.

    >
    > But hardly anyone wants fixed focal length lenses.  Almost everyone
    > wants a zoom lens.  And the zoom lens they want the most is the one
    > with a massive zoom range so that they don't ever have to change
    > lenses on their interchangeable-lens camera.  Go figure.


    I wanted zoom and I got it.

    3 1/2 years ago I bought my Canon SX100 P&S looking at the zoom range,
    36-360mm.
    1 1/2 years ago I bought my Canon 500D with the 18-55mm kit lens then
    the 55-250mm one.
    After getting my 50mm I can say I was wrong about zoom, it is not that
    important.

    I use the 50mm more that the 55-250mm.

    And I have dusted off the old Canon film SLR, it has a 38-76mm zoom
    lens (not much range though).
    But I always use the 50mm on it.

    The public wants zoom, true, but that does not make the zoom lenses
    better unless you sell them ;)

    A zoom design is a compromise, and the longer the range the worst.
    See what if you can find lenses for medium format cameras. And tell me
    their zoom range.


    DanP
    DanP, Jun 14, 2011
    #20
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