network security

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by wadealowther@yahoo.com, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hi,

    Having set up a basic small home network with a PC (hardwired via an
    ethernet cable to a Netgear Router and a laptop connected wirelessly
    to the router), I need some advice on internet and network security.

    The laptop runs Vista and the PC has XP on it. I use AVG Anti Virus
    and Zone Alarm Firewall (both the free versions) which have worked
    very well. AVG works fine within a network set up, but I had to switch
    off Zone Alarm to ensure that I could access the PC files from the
    laptop.

    Without the Firewall, I am obviously concerned about security when
    using the internet.

    Can anyone provide any advice on the best way to set up security on
    both machines.

    Regards

    WAL
     
    , Oct 1, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Guest

    On 1 Oct, 19:55, wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Having set up a basic small home network with a PC (hardwired via an
    > ethernet cable to a Netgear Router and a laptop connected wirelessly
    > to the router), I need some advice on internet and network security.
    >
    > The laptop runs Vista and the PC has XP on it. I use AVG Anti Virus
    > and Zone Alarm Firewall (both the free versions) which have worked
    > very well. AVG works fine within a network set up, but I had to switch
    > off Zone Alarm to ensure that I could access the PC files from the
    > laptop.
    >
    > Without the Firewall, I am obviously concerned about security when
    > using the internet.
    >
    > Can anyone provide any advice on the best way to set up security on
    > both machines.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > WAL


    if you're really concerned.

    don't run as administrator.

    don't use internet explorer

    since you're using zonealarm.. you actually don't have to turn it off,
    you can set it to allow file sharing. How to do that is another
    matter. To do it yourself you'd have to
    a)find out what ports your file sharing uses
    b)find out how to allow that on your LAN

    Or you could just find out how to tell zone alarm to allow all LAN-LAN
    traffic through.

    That's the logic. Somebody that uses zonealarm would know. But you
    probably won't find many people using zonealarm here.
    You could try a more zonealarm specific forum like
    http://forums.zonealarm.com/zonelabs/board?board.id=AllAboutPorts
    or
    http://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=924


    The issue with zonealarm , why it's not popular is often discussed in
    comp.security.firewalls , a newsgroup where a bunch of fairly
    knowledgeable idiots try to have a discussion. A favourite pass time
    for them is saying commercial software firewalls are rubbish. If you
    read through a dozen threads on it you'll get an idea of the issue.
    The idiots tend to write one line and get into arguments because they
    aren't clear, but they repeat themselves the whole time in each
    thread, same arguments e.t.c. Bunch of lemmings they are, they
    shouldn't be allowed to vote. You can browse that newsgroup via
    google.

    The main point though, is that even if they criticise ZA, their better
    alternative is not using ZA. They don't claim ZA makes the system less
    secure.

    If it makes you more mentally secure, then good ;-)

    You have a NAT Router, (you know, a box that gives out private
    addresses like 192.168.0.2) and a NAT router provides fairly good
    protection .

    The windows firewall is good too, particularly if you're not running
    as administrator.

    You can browse safely with just a windows firewall and not using
    internet explorer. And not running as administrator

    If you're not adventurous in your browsing, you could get away with
    using internet explorer
    And if you don't run as administrator whilst installing programs willy
    nilly, or browsing adventurously in IE (which can install programs
    too), then you can get by securely too.
     
    , Oct 2, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    On 2 Oct, 06:49, ""
    <> wrote:
    > On 1 Oct, 19:55, wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > Hi,

    >
    > > Having set up a basic small home network with a PC (hardwired via an
    > > ethernet cable to a Netgear Router and a laptop connected wirelessly
    > > to the router), I need some advice on internet and network security.

    >
    > > The laptop runs Vista and the PC has XP on it. I use AVG Anti Virus
    > > and Zone Alarm Firewall (both the free versions) which have worked
    > > very well. AVG works fine within a network set up, but I had to switch
    > > off Zone Alarm to ensure that I could access the PC files from the
    > > laptop.

    >
    > > Without the Firewall, I am obviously concerned about security when
    > > using the internet.

    >
    > > Can anyone provide any advice on the best way to set up security on
    > > both machines.

    >
    > > Regards

    >
    > > WAL

    >
    > if you're really concerned.
    >
    > don't run as administrator.
    >
    > don't use internet explorer
    >
    > since you're using zonealarm.. you actually don't have to turn it off,
    > you can set it to allow file sharing. How to do that is another
    > matter. To do it yourself you'd have to
    > a)find out what ports your file sharing uses
    > b)find out how to allow that on your LAN
    >
    > Or you could just find out how to tell zone alarm to allow all LAN-LAN
    > traffic through.
    >
    > That's the logic. Somebody that uses zonealarm would know. But you
    > probably won't find many people using zonealarm here.
    > You could try a more zonealarm specific forum likehttp://forums.zonealarm.com/zonelabs/board?board.id=AllAboutPorts
    > orhttp://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=924
    >
    > The issue with zonealarm , why it's not popular is often discussed in
    > comp.security.firewalls , a newsgroup where a bunch of fairly
    > knowledgeable idiots try to have a discussion. A favourite pass time
    > for them is saying commercial software firewalls are rubbish. If you
    > read through a dozen threads on it you'll get an idea of the issue.
    > The idiots tend to write one line and get into arguments because they
    > aren't clear, but they repeat themselves the whole time in each
    > thread, same arguments e.t.c. Bunch of lemmings they are, they
    > shouldn't be allowed to vote. You can browse that newsgroup via
    > google.
    >
    > The main point though, is that even if they criticise ZA, their better
    > alternative is not using ZA. They don't claim ZA makes the system less
    > secure.
    >
    > If it makes you more mentally secure, then good ;-)
    >
    > You have a NAT Router, (you know, a box that gives out private
    > addresses like 192.168.0.2) and a NAT router provides fairly good
    > protection .
    >
    > The windows firewall is good too, particularly if you're not running
    > as administrator.
    >
    > You can browse safely with just a windows firewall and not using
    > internet explorer. And not running as administrator
    >
    > If you're not adventurous in your browsing, you could get away with
    > using internet explorer
    > And if you don't run as administrator whilst installing programs willy
    > nilly, or browsing adventurously in IE (which can install programs
    > too), then you can get by securely too.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    You can't run 2 software firewalls , like ZA and the WFW

    Installing ZA will no doubt disable the WFW and may stop you enabling
    it. If you could enable it while running ZA then it may be
    problematic. Crashes maybe.

    ZA will do everything WFW does (blocking incoming), and more(blocking
    outgoing), though there is disagreement about how useful the 'more'
    is.

    WFW does have a weakness ZA doesn't, that it is quite a common target
    by malicious websites and if you're running as administrator they can
    take it down. They could take down ZA in theory, but it's not as
    targetted and prob more difficult.

    The windows firewall in vista may be able to block outgoing, I haven't
    tried. But the one in XP can't. I was writing more with the win xp
    firewall in mind. But the arguments apply more-or-less.

    This issue is only academic really.

    Follow the advice i mention in the previous post.
     
    , Oct 2, 2007
    #3
  4. jinxy Guest

    On Oct 2, 1:57 am, ""
    <> wrote:
    > On 2 Oct, 06:49, ""
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > > On 1 Oct, 19:55, wrote:

    >
    > > > Hi,

    >
    > > > Having set up a basic small home network with a PC (hardwired via an
    > > > ethernet cable to a Netgear Router and a laptop connected wirelessly
    > > > to the router), I need some advice on internet and network security.

    >
    > > > The laptop runs Vista and the PC has XP on it. I use AVG Anti Virus
    > > > and Zone Alarm Firewall (both the free versions) which have worked
    > > > very well. AVG works fine within a network set up, but I had to switch
    > > > off Zone Alarm to ensure that I could access the PC files from the
    > > > laptop.

    >
    > > > Without the Firewall, I am obviously concerned about security when
    > > > using the internet.

    >
    > > > Can anyone provide any advice on the best way to set up security on
    > > > both machines.

    >
    > > > Regards

    >
    > > > WAL

    >
    > > if you're really concerned.

    >
    > > don't run as administrator.

    >
    > > don't use internet explorer

    >
    > > since you're using zonealarm.. you actually don't have to turn it off,
    > > you can set it to allow file sharing. How to do that is another
    > > matter. To do it yourself you'd have to
    > > a)find out what ports your file sharing uses
    > > b)find out how to allow that on your LAN

    >
    > > Or you could just find out how to tell zone alarm to allow all LAN-LAN
    > > traffic through.

    >
    > > That's the logic. Somebody that uses zonealarm would know. But you
    > > probably won't find many people using zonealarm here.
    > > You could try a more zonealarm specific forum likehttp://forums.zonealarm.com/zonelabs/board?board.id=AllAboutPorts
    > > orhttp://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=924

    >
    > > The issue with zonealarm , why it's not popular is often discussed in
    > > comp.security.firewalls , a newsgroup where a bunch of fairly
    > > knowledgeable idiots try to have a discussion. A favourite pass time
    > > for them is saying commercial software firewalls are rubbish. If you
    > > read through a dozen threads on it you'll get an idea of the issue.
    > > The idiots tend to write one line and get into arguments because they
    > > aren't clear, but they repeat themselves the whole time in each
    > > thread, same arguments e.t.c. Bunch of lemmings they are, they
    > > shouldn't be allowed to vote. You can browse that newsgroup via
    > > google.

    >
    > > The main point though, is that even if they criticise ZA, their better
    > > alternative is not using ZA. They don't claim ZA makes the system less
    > > secure.

    >
    > > If it makes you more mentally secure, then good ;-)

    >
    > > You have a NAT Router, (you know, a box that gives out private
    > > addresses like 192.168.0.2) and a NAT router provides fairly good
    > > protection .

    >
    > > The windows firewall is good too, particularly if you're not running
    > > as administrator.

    >
    > > You can browse safely with just a windows firewall and not using
    > > internet explorer. And not running as administrator

    >
    > > If you're not adventurous in your browsing, you could get away with
    > > using internet explorer
    > > And if you don't run as administrator whilst installing programs willy
    > > nilly, or browsing adventurously in IE (which can install programs
    > > too), then you can get by securely too.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > You can't run 2 software firewalls , like ZA and the WFW
    >
    > Installing ZA will no doubt disable the WFW and may stop you enabling
    > it. If you could enable it while running ZA then it may be
    > problematic. Crashes maybe.
    >
    > ZA will do everything WFW does (blocking incoming), and more(blocking
    > outgoing), though there is disagreement about how useful the 'more'
    > is.
    >
    > WFW does have a weakness ZA doesn't, that it is quite a common target
    > by malicious websites and if you're running as administrator they can
    > take it down. They could take down ZA in theory, but it's not as
    > targetted and prob more difficult.
    >
    > The windows firewall in vista may be able to block outgoing, I haven't
    > tried. But the one in XP can't. I was writing more with the win xp
    > firewall in mind. But the arguments apply more-or-less.
    >
    > This issue is only academic really.
    >
    > Follow the advice i mention in the previous post.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Is there not a firewall based within the router also? I think so.-J
     
    jinxy, Oct 2, 2007
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Oct 2, 1:30 pm, jinxy <> wrote:
    > On Oct 2, 1:57 am, ""
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > > On 2 Oct, 06:49, ""

    >
    > > <> wrote:
    > > > On 1 Oct, 19:55, wrote:

    >
    > > > > Hi,

    >
    > > > > Having set up a basic small home network with a PC (hardwired via an
    > > > > ethernet cable to a Netgear Router and a laptop connected wirelessly
    > > > > to the router), I need some advice on internet and network security.

    >
    > > > > The laptop runs Vista and the PC has XP on it. I use AVG Anti Virus
    > > > > and Zone Alarm Firewall (both the free versions) which have worked
    > > > > very well. AVG works fine within a network set up, but I had to switch
    > > > > off Zone Alarm to ensure that I could access the PC files from the
    > > > > laptop.

    >
    > > > > Without the Firewall, I am obviously concerned about security when
    > > > > using the internet.

    >
    > > > > Can anyone provide any advice on the best way to set up security on
    > > > > both machines.

    >
    > > > > Regards

    >
    > > > > WAL

    >
    > > > if you're really concerned.

    >
    > > > don't run as administrator.

    >
    > > > don't use internet explorer

    >
    > > > since you're using zonealarm.. you actually don't have to turn it off,
    > > > you can set it to allow file sharing. How to do that is another
    > > > matter. To do it yourself you'd have to
    > > > a)find out what ports your file sharing uses
    > > > b)find out how to allow that on your LAN

    >
    > > > Or you could just find out how to tell zone alarm to allow all LAN-LAN
    > > > traffic through.

    >
    > > > That's the logic. Somebody that uses zonealarm would know. But you
    > > > probably won't find many people using zonealarm here.
    > > > You could try a more zonealarm specific forum likehttp://forums.zonealarm.com/zonelabs/board?board.id=AllAboutPorts
    > > > orhttp://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=924

    >
    > > > The issue with zonealarm , why it's not popular is often discussed in
    > > > comp.security.firewalls , a newsgroup where a bunch of fairly
    > > > knowledgeable idiots try to have a discussion. A favourite pass time
    > > > for them is saying commercial software firewalls are rubbish. If you
    > > > read through a dozen threads on it you'll get an idea of the issue.
    > > > The idiots tend to write one line and get into arguments because they
    > > > aren't clear, but they repeat themselves the whole time in each
    > > > thread, same arguments e.t.c. Bunch of lemmings they are, they
    > > > shouldn't be allowed to vote. You can browse that newsgroup via
    > > > google.

    >
    > > > The main point though, is that even if they criticise ZA, their better
    > > > alternative is not using ZA. They don't claim ZA makes the system less
    > > > secure.

    >
    > > > If it makes you more mentally secure, then good ;-)

    >
    > > > You have a NAT Router, (you know, a box that gives out private
    > > > addresses like 192.168.0.2) and a NAT router provides fairly good
    > > > protection .

    >
    > > > The windows firewall is good too, particularly if you're not running
    > > > as administrator.

    >
    > > > You can browse safely with just a windows firewall and not using
    > > > internet explorer. And not running as administrator

    >
    > > > If you're not adventurous in your browsing, you could get away with
    > > > using internet explorer
    > > > And if you don't run as administrator whilst installing programs willy
    > > > nilly, or browsing adventurously in IE (which can install programs
    > > > too), then you can get by securely too.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > > You can't run 2 software firewalls , like ZA and the WFW

    >
    > > Installing ZA will no doubt disable the WFW and may stop you enabling
    > > it. If you could enable it while running ZA then it may be
    > > problematic. Crashes maybe.

    >
    > > ZA will do everything WFW does (blocking incoming), and more(blocking
    > > outgoing), though there is disagreement about how useful the 'more'
    > > is.

    >
    > > WFW does have a weakness ZA doesn't, that it is quite a common target
    > > by malicious websites and if you're running as administrator they can
    > > take it down. They could take down ZA in theory, but it's not as
    > > targetted and prob more difficult.

    >
    > > The windows firewall in vista may be able to block outgoing, I haven't
    > > tried. But the one in XP can't. I was writing more with the win xp
    > > firewall in mind. But the arguments apply more-or-less.

    >
    > > This issue is only academic really.

    >
    > > Follow the advice i mention in the previous post.- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Is there not a firewall based within the router also? I think so.-J-


    often, yes, it's a box that has a router function, and firewall
    function, and does NAT.

    I think the packet hits the NAT first, and NAT blocks all incoming
    unless you set port forwarding..

    What use then is the firewall?

    Well, it can also block outgoing, but the benefits and usage of this
    is a debated thing. Of course, if you're benefiting from blocking
    outgoing, it's because you're already compromised. It can help prevent
    things getting worse for you, and moreso, it can help protect other
    people from your now potentially malicious machine. But if you block
    one tcp port&ip, malware could find another, it's a game of cat and
    mouse - by concept. Conceptually, you can block all incoming
    connections and still browse the net. But if you block all outgoing,
    you can't even browse the net. . Those that block outgoing may screen
    packets going out , I think this looking anywhere in the packet is
    called DPI, one could identify what it is and isn't.

    But this is less for a technical home user or idiot end user, and more
    for a network administrator in charge of a bunch of idiot end users.
    Blocking outgoing is a game of cat and mouse - by concept. i.e. even
    if the implementation is perfect. Whereas blocking (all) incoming,
    conceptually it's perfect, so the only hole there could be in the
    implementation, like a bug that can be exploited by an incoming
    packet.






    ..
     
    , Oct 2, 2007
    #5
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