Network glitch

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by JIM, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. JIM

    JIM Guest

    I'm having a slight problem with my LAN
    I've got 5 pc's, one 8 port switch (just fitted New) 1 hub and a DSL router
    CAT 5 UTP cable and the Software is XP PRO all machines.

    When all machines are fired up in the morning only two pc's will
    be detected on the LAN, these two are connected directly to the
    DSL router. port 1 and 2. The other 3 PC's are connected via a hub and
    switch which is connected to the router in port 3

    If I power off the (8 port switch) and power back up, Hey they all
    appear back online.

    Thanks for any help

    Jim
    JIM, Jan 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. JIM

    MrToad Guest

    "JIM" <> Ran in the back door and shouted
    news:bvb2nm$cq5$:

    > I'm having a slight problem with my LAN
    > I've got 5 pc's, one 8 port switch (just fitted New) 1 hub and a DSL
    > router CAT 5 UTP cable and the Software is XP PRO all machines.
    >
    > When all machines are fired up in the morning only two pc's will
    > be detected on the LAN, these two are connected directly to the
    > DSL router. port 1 and 2. The other 3 PC's are connected via a hub and
    > switch which is connected to the router in port 3
    >
    > If I power off the (8 port switch) and power back up, Hey they all
    > appear back online.
    >
    > Thanks for any help
    >
    > Jim
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Is the hub between the router and the switch?
    IF not, are you using the "Uplink" port on the switch to connect to the
    router?
    IMO, dump the hub and just run the switch, hubs cause many collisions,
    which *may* impair the router's DHCP assignments of IP's <-- just a
    guess.
    I have 4 PC's connected to an 8-port switch, which is "uplinked" to my
    router, I haven't had any problems with this setup.

    --
    MrToad
    MrToad, Jan 29, 2004
    #2
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  3. JIM

    JIMI Guest

    Thanks for the reply MrToad
    Yes the 4 port hub is between the router and the switch
    and i can't ditch the hub because of the distance.
    The hubs only there to extend the cable stretch.
    What about swapping the hub with the switch ?
    and use the uplink on the switch to the router.
    I don't know, but its only started doing this
    since that switch has been installed.

    "MrToad" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns947F72B9C1A0Bnospamnospam@216.168.3.30...
    > "JIM" <> Ran in the back door and shouted
    > news:bvb2nm$cq5$:
    >
    > > I'm having a slight problem with my LAN
    > > I've got 5 pc's, one 8 port switch (just fitted New) 1 hub and a DSL
    > > router CAT 5 UTP cable and the Software is XP PRO all machines.
    > >
    > > When all machines are fired up in the morning only two pc's will
    > > be detected on the LAN, these two are connected directly to the
    > > DSL router. port 1 and 2. The other 3 PC's are connected via a hub and
    > > switch which is connected to the router in port 3
    > >
    > > If I power off the (8 port switch) and power back up, Hey they all
    > > appear back online.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help
    > >
    > > Jim
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Is the hub between the router and the switch?
    > IF not, are you using the "Uplink" port on the switch to connect to the
    > router?
    > IMO, dump the hub and just run the switch, hubs cause many collisions,
    > which *may* impair the router's DHCP assignments of IP's <-- just a
    > guess.
    > I have 4 PC's connected to an 8-port switch, which is "uplinked" to my
    > router, I haven't had any problems with this setup.
    >
    > --
    > MrToad
    >
    JIMI, Jan 29, 2004
    #3
  4. JIM

    MrToad Guest

    "JIMI" <> Ran in the back door and shouted
    news:bvbhtr$i3l$:

    > Thanks for the reply MrToad
    > Yes the 4 port hub is between the router and the switch
    > and i can't ditch the hub because of the distance.
    > The hubs only there to extend the cable stretch.
    > What about swapping the hub with the switch ?
    > and use the uplink on the switch to the router.
    > I don't know, but its only started doing this
    > since that switch has been installed.
    >
    > "MrToad" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns947F72B9C1A0Bnospamnospam@216.168.3.30...
    >> "JIM" <> Ran in the back door and shouted
    >> news:bvb2nm$cq5$:
    >>
    >> > I'm having a slight problem with my LAN
    >> > I've got 5 pc's, one 8 port switch (just fitted New) 1 hub and a DSL
    >> > router CAT 5 UTP cable and the Software is XP PRO all machines.
    >> >
    >> > When all machines are fired up in the morning only two pc's will
    >> > be detected on the LAN, these two are connected directly to the
    >> > DSL router. port 1 and 2. The other 3 PC's are connected via a hub

    and
    >> > switch which is connected to the router in port 3
    >> >
    >> > If I power off the (8 port switch) and power back up, Hey they all
    >> > appear back online.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks for any help
    >> >
    >> > Jim
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> Is the hub between the router and the switch?
    >> IF not, are you using the "Uplink" port on the switch to connect to

    the
    >> router?
    >> IMO, dump the hub and just run the switch, hubs cause many collisions,
    >> which *may* impair the router's DHCP assignments of IP's <-- just a
    >> guess.
    >> I have 4 PC's connected to an 8-port switch, which is "uplinked" to my
    >> router, I haven't had any problems with this setup.
    >>
    >> --
    >> MrToad
    >>

    >
    >
    >


    That would probably work better than your present setup.
    Be sure to use the "uplink" port on the switch to connect to the router..
    It should be a "shared" port, with maybe a button to push to use the
    uplink function, some switches auto-detect though, check you switch
    manual to be sure.

    --
    MrToad
    MrToad, Jan 30, 2004
    #4
  5. JIM

    why? Guest

    On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 18:03:39 -0000, JIMI wrote:

    >Thanks for the reply MrToad
    >Yes the 4 port hub is between the router and the switch
    >and i can't ditch the hub because of the distance.


    What sort of distance?

    It's just possible and can work well at 10Mbps to have this.
    PC-100m-repeater(hub)-100m-switch-100m-router

    I have even seen , this working.
    PC-125m-repeater-5m-switch

    >The hubs only there to extend the cable stretch.
    >What about swapping the hub with the switch ?
    >and use the uplink on the switch to the router.
    >I don't know, but its only started doing this
    >since that switch has been installed.


    What type/model of hub/switch?

    The hub/switch would not normally be an issue, I have this type of setup
    jut now.

    PCs-Switch(1000/100/10Mbps)-Router(10/100Mbps).
    PCs-Router.
    PC/Printer-Hub(10/100)-Switch-Router.
    Router-Cablemodem

    Everything can get the DHCP settings from the router fine, that's mixed
    Windows, Linux, Solaris.

    >"MrToad" <> wrote in message
    >news:Xns947F72B9C1A0Bnospamnospam@216.168.3.30...
    >> "JIM" <> Ran in the back door and shouted
    >> news:bvb2nm$cq5$:
    >>
    >> > I'm having a slight problem with my LAN
    >> > I've got 5 pc's, one 8 port switch (just fitted New) 1 hub and a DSL
    >> > router CAT 5 UTP cable and the Software is XP PRO all machines.
    >> >
    >> > When all machines are fired up in the morning only two pc's will
    >> > be detected on the LAN, these two are connected directly to the


    By detected, do you mean you can ping each PC from the other?

    On one of the initial non connected PCs, what does the output of
    ipconfig/all
    look like?

    If a PC didn't get a DHCP address try a manual renew
    ipconfig/renew
    You may need a ipconfig/release first.

    >> > DSL router. port 1 and 2. The other 3 PC's are connected via a hub and


    Some routers will let you see the addresses , DHCP config and
    allocations it's handed out. You could try that, usually it's a list of
    the pc name, IP address and the MAC address of the PC.

    >> > switch which is connected to the router in port 3
    >> >
    >> > If I power off the (8 port switch) and power back up, Hey they all
    >> > appear back online.


    Link/speed LEDs are they correct / change after the power reset?

    Remember the link LEDs are not the speed things will work at, it's more
    of an indication of a hardware connection is okay test.

    When you say 'appear back on line' is that working net access or just
    the LEDs status change?

    PCs are they set for auto speed/duplex or manual?

    Could be a cable issue, are you using all patch cables (straight
    through) or mixed with crossover. If the hub/switch is auto sense MDI-X
    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MDIX.html
    maybe it's not detecting the correct cable config the first time.

    Do the settings match PCs on the hub LEDs?

    Do the switch port LEDs match the hub on one side and the DSL on the
    other match that on the switch port?

    <snip>

    Go with the suggestion from Mr Toad, at least to simplify the
    configuration and remove 1 factor to test.

    >> >

    >>
    >> Is the hub between the router and the switch?
    >> IF not, are you using the "Uplink" port on the switch to connect to the
    >> router?
    >> IMO, dump the hub and just run the switch, hubs cause many collisions,
    >> which *may* impair the router's DHCP assignments of IP's <-- just a
    >> guess.


    Should not be an issue for home use. The DHCP request is only a few
    packets.

    Hubs don't cause collisions. It's the effect of putting more than 1
    system on a common line.
    The method used is called CSMA/CD, (Carrier Sense, Multiple
    Access/Collision Detection) , it detects collisions and applys rules to
    allow systems to share the common line.

    You will always see collisions, it's how many that are important, length
    of time. If the collision LED flickers with longer periods of off time,
    it's working. If it's on solid there is a fault.

    It really depends on what 1 or more PCs may be doing, if 1 is a CD image
    download the other 2 will have performance issue but should still work.
    The collision rate will be high but still look similar to the case if a
    fault is present.

    <snip>

    Me
    why?, Jan 30, 2004
    #5
  6. JIM

    JIM Guest

    Thankyou very much for your large interest in my problem
    I wish I had your knowledge then maybe I might fix it.
    I'm pretty new to networking but I seem to be getting
    into situations where more and more people are wanting
    Home Lans or business workgroups setting up and configuring
    so it looks like I better start reading up, or maybe take a course
    any good courses out there for the beginners

    I will have a closer look at this problem and give you some
    better information and more detail to what is happening

    Thankyou Jim
    JIM, Jan 30, 2004
    #6
  7. JIM

    why? Guest

    On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:15:21 -0000, JIM wrote:

    >Thankyou very much for your large interest in my problem
    >I wish I had your knowledge then maybe I might fix it.


    Well it's taken a few years, some mistakes a lot of practice and books,
    research and more than a few PCs at home with all sorts of setups.

    >I'm pretty new to networking but I seem to be getting
    >into situations where more and more people are wanting
    >Home Lans or business workgroups setting up and configuring


    Very common, although most of the routers now do everthing for you.

    >so it looks like I better start reading up, or maybe take a course


    Books can get expensive and there is not really any beginners level
    stuff that I have seen. Most of the books , at least those I have are
    almost 1 subject topics Switches, Routing, TCP/IP. Gigabit, Firewalls.

    A lot of the introductory stuff in not setting up a network but all
    about the protocols, HTTP, NNTP, TCP/IP and addressing. Most of the time
    it's a lot of duplication.

    >any good courses out there for the beginners


    It really depends how deep you want to get or what subjects. There is
    almost nothing in it for home use. Doing it as a full time job however
    .....

    You could start,

    Tutors/Guides
    http://www.practicallynetworked.com/
    http://smallnetbuilder.com/
    http://www.duxcw.com/index.html
    http://www.helmig.com/
    http://www.homenethelp.com/


    Don't know what this is like, seems to be a new addition. It has a few
    typical setups and the type of equipment needed.
    http://www.netgear.com/education/wired_pc_lan.html

    I did find some nice diagrams, but can't remember if it was in my ISPs
    groups or here in 24HSHD.

    Found it, 20 minutes later.
    http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/diagrams.html


    There is a vast amount of documentation here,
    http://www.cisco.com/pcgi-bin/Support/browse/index.pl?i=Technologies
    try the IP stuff first, like multicast, routed protocols , routing
    etc., and it's tough in places.
    http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/index.html
    professional rather than beginners course info.
    Of course it's biased on Cisco solution but the basics apply every
    where.

    Don't know what these courses are like, but it seems to cover a broader
    area than single vendor (Cisco, Microsoft)
    http://www.comptia.org/certification/a/default.asp
    Most large book stores should have the A+ study guides.

    <snip>

    Me
    why?, Jan 30, 2004
    #7
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