Need stabilization advice

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paul Ciszek, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
    1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
    stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
    be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    tripod only helps a little.

    My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
    standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    telephoto work?

    --
    Please reply to: | No nation is drunken where wine is cheap.
    pciszek at panix dot com | --Thomas Jefferson
     
    Paul Ciszek, Nov 15, 2012
    #1
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  2. In article <k83f9q$o1v$>,
    (Paul Ciszek) wrote:

    > When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    > wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
    > 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
    > stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    > Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    > than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
    > be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    > tripod only helps a little.
    >
    > My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    > problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    > camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    > support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    > of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
    > standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    > telephoto work?


    I'm not familiar with that tripod, but I've heard these pads are highly
    regarded by amateur astronomers:

    http://www.celestron.com/astronomy/celestron-vsp-vibration-suppression-pa
    ds.html
     
    Mark Storkamp, Nov 15, 2012
    #2
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  3. Paul Ciszek

    ray Guest

    On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:

    > When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    > wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
    > 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
    > stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    > Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    > than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
    > be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    > tripod only helps a little.
    >
    > My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    > problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    > camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    > support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    > of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
    > standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    > telephoto work?


    Do you use a remote shutter release?
     
    ray, Nov 15, 2012
    #3
  4. Paul Ciszek <> wrote:

    > When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    > wiggling around in the display as I try to focus.


    Your use of the phrase "things wiggling around in the display" rather
    than the entire dispaly wiggling suggests that what you may be seeing
    is the wirggling of atmospheric thermal turbulense, a bit problem at
    these focal lengths. There's nothing you can do about that except
    choose better atmosphetic conditions. If your shutter speed is too
    slow it will cause blur, if high enough straight edges will be
    slightly wavy rather than straight.

    > I have to shoot
    > 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture.


    That's in the right region for escaping from shutter-induced
    vibration.

    > I need some advice for better
    > stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    > Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    > than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
    > be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    > tripod only helps a little.


    > My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    > problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    > camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    > support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    > of course I have no mirror slap.


    What's anti-shock and how doe it avoid the effects of shutter motion?

    > What else am I missing? Is the
    > standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    > telephoto work?


    Fasten a laster pointer to your camera and aim it at a distant
    wall. Tap the lens. See the vibration in the red dot? A solid granite
    tripod might help a little, but most of the problems you're seeing are
    partly in the compliance in the camera tripod mount, and partly in the
    camera itself. For example, if IBIS can move the sensor, then the
    sensor can move relative to the camera body.

    But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter...

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Nov 16, 2012
    #4
  5. Paul Ciszek

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/15/2012 7:15 PM, Frank S wrote:
    >
    > "ray" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:20:26 +0000, Paul Ciszek wrote:
    >>
    >>> When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    >>> wiggling around in the display as I try to focus. I have to shoot
    >>> 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture. I need some advice for better
    >>> stabilizing a camera. I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    >>> Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    >>> than the weight of my camera and lens. Is there something else I should
    >>> be doing to dampen the movement? Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    >>> tripod only helps a little.
    >>>
    >>> My camera is an Olympus OM-D µ4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    >>> problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    >>> camera. I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    >>> support. I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    >>> of course I have no mirror slap. What else am I missing? Is the
    >>> standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    >>> telephoto work?

    >>
    >> Do you use a remote shutter release?

    >
    > Do you hang a weight from the tripod head? Many tripods have hooks for
    > that purpose, and rather than haul a weight around I use my camera bag.
    >


    That seems to work. Since I don't carry a bag, just a vest , I use a
    handy rock, suspended with bungee cords. But, that only works when the
    lens is mounted on the tripod.
    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 16, 2012
    #5
  6. Paul Ciszek

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/15/2012 7:49 PM, Chris Malcolm wrote:




    >
    > But a massless electronic first curtain to the shutter...
    >


    do you mean one that isn't Catholic? <G>

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 16, 2012
    #6
  7. Paul Ciszek

    otter Guest

    On Nov 15, 1:20 pm, (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
    > When I try to take pictures with my 500mm mirror lens, I can see things
    > wiggling around in the display as I try to focus.  I have to shoot
    > 1/200s or faster to get a decent picture.  I need some advice for better
    > stabilizing a camera.  I have a standard Manfrotto tripod, and a
    > Manfrotto head that is supposed to be able to handle much more weight
    > than the weight of my camera and lens.  Is there something else I should
    > be doing to dampen the movement?  Hanging weight from the bottom of the
    > tripod only helps a little.
    >
    > My camera is an Olympus OM-D 4/3 format, so I suppose part of my
    > problem is that this setup is the equivalent of 1000mm on a full frame
    > camera.  I leave IBIS turned on as per the advice of Olympus tech
    > support.  I use anti-shock to avoid the effects of shutter motion, and
    > of course I have no mirror slap.  What else am I missing?  Is the
    > standard Manfrotto tripod just not good enough for 1000mm (equivalent)
    > telephoto work?
    >
    > --
    > Please reply to:               | No nation is drunken wherewine is cheap.
    > pciszek at panix dot com       |             --Thomas Jefferson


    There is a reason why some people buy 5 series Gitzo tripods and RRS
    or Arca-Swiss ballheads (or several other such).

    Not sure what a "standard" Manfrotto tripod is, but I had an
    experience trying to shoot fireworks with a "Pro" Velbon tripod from a
    bridge one Fourth of July with traffic moving across the bridge. As I
    was trying to take pictures, I could see the lens hood visibily
    vibrate.. Shortly thereafter I bought my current tripod, which is
    built like a tank. And I no longer take long exposure pictures from
    bridges.

    Seems like you have received some good suggestions. I've tried
    hanging a camera bag from a tripod in the past. One problem is wind
    may cause the bag to sway, so you have a whole new source of movement.
    If you could figure out some way to to rig a damper between the lens
    hood, and a weight on the ground, that might help.
     
    otter, Nov 17, 2012
    #7
  8. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    In article <>, ray <> wrote:
    >
    >Do you use a remote shutter release?


    Cable remote. So far as I know, there is no IR remote for the OM-D.

    --
    "Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
    crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
    TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
    bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
     
    Paul Ciszek, Nov 18, 2012
    #8
  9. Paul Ciszek <> wrote:

    > In article <>, ray <> wrote:
    >>
    >>Do you use a remote shutter release?


    > Cable remote. So far as I know, there is no IR remote for the OM-D.


    If there's a cable there's a socket into which it plugs, and very
    likely someone in Hong Kong selling a radio shutter release which fits
    it. Which in some cases is cheaper than the often rather luxuriously
    priced camera manufacturer's cable release.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Nov 20, 2012
    #9
  10. Paul Ciszek

    -hh Guest

    On Nov 16, 9:10 pm, Eric Stevens <> wrote:
    > On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:07:34 -0500, Alan Browne
    > > [...]
    > >Since your approach does not eliminate vibration - just changes it, it
    > >is not a solution at all.

    >
    > You can never eliminate vibration. The shock of the mirror action and
    > the shutter will always cause vibration. The only solutions which are
    > open to you lie in changing the response to the shock.


    And since the energy from the mirror/shutter is proportional to the
    mass of those objects, increasing the reactionary mass will alter said
    response(s).


    > >Can I see your recorded accelerometer data?

    >
    > There was a time when I had scads of the stuff but I have long since
    > dumped it all.


    Plus asking for data is a two-way street.

    > Even when using a timer based delay my Nikon D300 does not
    > lift the mirror until the instant of the exposure.


    Although it should be noted that this does vary by manufacturer and/or
    product: some of my (d)SLR bodies do lift the mirror at the start of
    a timed shot which allows that source of vibration to dissipate away
    before the shutter trips.

    > >Or, get a lens with iris shutter - very low induced vibration (impulse
    > >is radial).

    >
    > It's very hard to fit an iris shutter to a DSLR.


    It is still just changing ... not actually "eliminating" ... the
    induced vibration, although this is in of itself not necessarily a bad
    thing: because the axis of rotation is about the lens, a larger
    magnitude rotation can occur in the middle of the image's frame before
    the magnitude of the error results in the data being crossed into the
    next pixel receptor bucket on the sensor. OTOH, the outer fringe may
    very well be worse for the same reason.


    -hh
     
    -hh, Nov 20, 2012
    #10
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