Natural gas vs oil ?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Kenny, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using anthracite.
    Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the line
    over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.
    We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the advantages
    of gas.
    1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and boiler
    house in our garden.
    2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since I
    don't believe their figures are totally independent.
    I have some reservations.
    1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.
    2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining because
    of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the burner
    will be outside the house.
    3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without fuel,
    I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps and
    leaving much of Europe in a panic.
    The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since I
    believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.
    Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.

    --
    Kenny Cargill
    Kenny, Feb 11, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Kenny wrote:
    > I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    > natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using anthracite.
    > Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the line
    > over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.
    > We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the advantages
    > of gas.
    > 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and boiler
    > house in our garden.
    > 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since I
    > don't believe their figures are totally independent.
    > I have some reservations.
    > 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    > years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.
    > 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining because
    > of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the burner
    > will be outside the house.
    > 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without fuel,
    > I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps and
    > leaving much of Europe in a panic.
    > The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since I
    > believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.
    > Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    > changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.
    >

    I'd change to gas from oil, given the chance.

    An oil tank holds a several hundred quid's worth of fuel. If you are
    lucky the thief will syphon it off and not just punch a hole in the
    tank, take what he can and leave the rest to run into the subsoil.

    If your garden is sheltered from breezes, on a hot Summer's Day, all you
    will smell in the garden is kerosene and not the flowers.

    You can get CO alarms, just like smoke alarms. But modern gas boilers
    have all sorts of safeguards built in, IIUC.

    But I don't understand why you need an oil boiler house in the garden -
    mine is in the house and looks the same as a gas one - and doesn't
    smell, other than for the few days after it has been serviced. The
    boiler doesn't need to be gravity fed from the oil tank - once primed
    the built in oil pump can cope with quite a height difference and they
    can add a tiny electrical external pump next to the tank, if need be.




    --
    Sue
    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?=, Feb 11, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Kenny

    pcbutts1 Guest


    > I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    > natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using
    > anthracite.


    Have to make a difficult choice, huh?

    > Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the
    > line over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.


    Why does there need to be a reason for bringing the line over from
    belfast via scotland is to feed a new power station?

    > We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the
    > advantages of gas.


    We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding you with the
    advantages of gas? Why do you say that?

    > 1.


    1?

    > Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and
    > boiler house in our garden.


    No comment.

    > 2.


    2?

    > Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of ?70 - ?100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house.


    Why do you think about money so much?

    > I would be a bit suspicious of this since I don't believe their
    > figures are totally independent.


    I wouldn't expect you to believe their figures are totally independent.

    > I have some reservations.


    I've created a monster.

    > 1.


    1?

    > This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    > years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.


    How much can you afford?

    > 2.


    2?

    > Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining
    > because of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with
    > oil the burner will be outside the house.


    People think you're sane as long as you say what they expect; and they
    think you're insane when you don't say what they expect.

    > 3.


    3?

    > A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without
    > fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the
    > taps and leaving much of Europe in a panic.


    Jaitsa razbit.

    > The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions
    > since I believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.


    Really? I don't believe that shit.

    > Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who
    > has changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general
    > comments.


    Your father has changed from oil to gas.

    --
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    pcbutts1, Feb 11, 2006
    #3
  4. Kenny

    Rosco Guest

    =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= cried out

    > Kenny wrote:
    >> I live in a local authority house and we are being given the
    >> choice of natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating,
    >> currently using anthracite. Gas will be totally new in this area,
    >> the main reason for bringing the line over from Belfast via
    >> Scotland is to feed a new power station. We have reps from
    >> Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the advantages of
    >> gas. 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly
    >> tanks and boiler house in our garden.
    >> 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of
    >> £70 - £100 yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit
    >> suspicious of this since I don't believe their figures are
    >> totally independent. I have some reservations.
    >> 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the
    >> first 2 years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop
    >> around. 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide
    >> poisining because of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly
    >> maintained), with oil the burner will be outside the house.
    >> 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us
    >> without fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia
    >> turning off the taps and leaving much of Europe in a panic.
    >> The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower
    >> emissions since I believe we should all be doing our bit for a
    >> cleaner world. Have done some Googling but would appreciate
    >> hearing from anyone who has changed from oil to gas, anyone using
    >> Firmus and any general comments.
    >>

    > I'd change to gas from oil, given the chance.
    >
    > An oil tank holds a several hundred quid's worth of fuel. If you
    > are lucky the thief will syphon it off and not just punch a hole
    > in the tank, take what he can and leave the rest to run into the
    > subsoil.
    >
    > If your garden is sheltered from breezes, on a hot Summer's Day,
    > all you will smell in the garden is kerosene and not the flowers.
    >
    > You can get CO alarms, just like smoke alarms. But modern gas
    > boilers have all sorts of safeguards built in, IIUC.
    >
    > But I don't understand why you need an oil boiler house in the
    > garden - mine is in the house and looks the same as a gas one -
    > and doesn't smell, other than for the few days after it has been
    > serviced. The boiler doesn't need to be gravity fed from the oil
    > tank - once primed the built in oil pump can cope with quite a
    > height difference and they can add a tiny electrical external pump
    > next to the tank, if need be.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    I don't even think oil is offered in the US as a heating
    alternative, we have natural gas, LP gas, and electric. People who
    suffer the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning typically did not
    maintain thier appliances, once a year have someone come inspect
    your appliances for clogs and such, its that simple. An inspeaction
    runs around 50-75 US dollars around here. They check to make sure
    nothing is clogged, dirty, set incorrectly, worn out, faulty,
    leaking, etc... and like the last post said, A CO2 detector is one
    of the best safegaurds. A CO2/Smoke detector on every floor,
    preferably, every room of your home can save your life.
    Rosco, Feb 11, 2006
    #4
  5. Kenny

    philo Guest

    "Kenny" <> wrote in message
    news:dskeq7$1cu$...
    >I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    >natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using
    >anthracite.
    > Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the
    > line over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.
    > We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the
    > advantages of gas.
    > 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and
    > boiler house in our garden.
    > 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since
    > I



    I replaced my oil burner with a natural gas furnace...and have been
    very pleased with it.
    Not only is it clean burning...there is very little to go wrong with the
    furnace.
    My oil burner seemed to always develop pin-holes in the insulating
    electrodes
    which produced a lot of soot if not replaced every year or so
    philo, Feb 11, 2006
    #5
  6. Rosco gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    snip
    >>

    >
    > I don't even think oil is offered in the US as a heating
    > alternative,


    snip

    Don't get around much, do you? :) Roughly 7 per cent of US households use
    oil for heating, the vast majority in the Northeast. In my area, a large
    number use wood. I use wood myself, because decent firewood is quite
    inexpensive locally. I pay about about $70 a cord and burn 3 to 4 cord
    during the season. The fellow down the road from me has natural gas and
    last winter paid over $450 for heat. What with the increases this winter,
    even though the rates have slacked off somewhat, due to a milder winter in
    this area than predicted, he told me he expects to pay about $600. I've
    only burned about a cord and a half so far.

    Electric heat is not too expensive either, due to the fairly low electric
    rates in this area (as compared to other parts of the US), even with a
    roughly 8-10 per cent increase. Compared to natural gas or propane prices
    here, electricity seems a bargain.


    --
    The Old Sourdough
    A good wife always forgives her husband when she's wrong. - Milton Berle
    The Old Sourdough, Feb 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Kenny

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2006-02-11, Kenny <> wrote:
    > I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    > natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using anthracite.
    > Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the line
    > over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.
    > We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the advantages
    > of gas.
    > 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and boiler
    > house in our garden.


    I don't know why you would need a boiler-house in the garden for oil; you
    would need a storage tank though, and they are not pretty - and can smell
    badly if there's a spill when the tanker comes to re-fill, or if a leak
    develops.

    Don't forget the potential fire hazard from an oil tank above the ground.

    > 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since I
    > don't believe their figures are totally independent.


    I'm surprisd anyone in the UK is considering oil; it has been by far the
    most expensive heating fuel for decades. Even LPG (liquified gas,
    delivered by tanker and stored in a high-pressure tank) is usually a lot
    cheaper.

    > I have some reservations.
    > 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    > years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.
    > 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining because
    > of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the burner
    > will be outside the house.


    You can get carbon monoxide poisoning from any faulty device that involves
    flames - including coal fires.

    Basic carbon monoxide detectors are cheap and reliable. Fancy electronic
    ones are available too if you want something that can sound an alarm.

    > 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without fuel,
    > I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps and
    > leaving much of Europe in a panic.


    Oil supplies cannot be guaranteed; if you run out while there's a strike
    on, or the road is blocked by snow or something ...

    Interruptions to mains gas supplies are very unusual; normally a gas
    supply is more reliable than mains electricity.

    > The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since I
    > believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.
    > Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    > changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.


    I'd choose gas, unless electric heating was also a possibility.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Feb 11, 2006
    #7
  8. Kenny wrote:

    > I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    > natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using
    > anthracite. Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for
    > bringing the line over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power
    > station. We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the
    > advantages of gas.


    If you want to keep it cheap, stay with a solid fuel furnace (coal or
    timber). Unless you have to pay the man who heats it up and cleans it out.

    > 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and
    > boiler house in our garden.


    Which "boiler house"? You aren't talking about heavy paraffine oil like that
    one used for ship engines?

    > 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since
    > I don't believe their figures are totally independent.
    > I have some reservations.
    > 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    > years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.


    Once the pipelines are there, liberation of trade (maybe after a initial
    period) will allow to change the gas supplier, same as already is possible
    for electricity.

    > 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining because
    > of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the
    > burner will be outside the house.


    I can't think of a oil burner outside. Usually you have to replace your
    (coal) furnace, most probably in the cellar, with a oil or gas burner. Or
    add a 2nd furnace so you can still switch, if you have enough room to
    install. Or don't you have a central heating yet?

    > 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without
    > fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps
    > and leaving much of Europe in a panic.


    No panic in western Europe at least ... enough storage caves. Well, there
    are some regulations in place regarding emergency and buffer storage
    capacity.

    > The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since
    > I believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.


    Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately, there is only a minor difference
    between oil and gas, regarding CO2 emissions. Insulating your house could
    have a bigger effect, as well as using timber and timber pellets for
    heating.

    > Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    > changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.
    >

    It is a international, not a local newsgroup here :)
    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse detected penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.14-mm1 [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]
    Walter Mautner, Feb 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Thanks for all the replies.
    I'm in N. Ireland which, (for now anyway), is still part of the UK but
    energy prices here are notoriously much higher than the rest of the UK
    All new/ish oil installations here have a little concrete boiler house as
    well as the tank in the garden, it's only the hot water pipes which actually
    come into the house.
    To the person who asked why do we need a pipeline, how else is the gas going
    to get here?
    Timber and/or timber pellets isn't an option here.
    There's a public meeting coming up soon locally about it and we can air our
    questions and concerns there and would like to go with some knowledge of
    others experience.

    --
    Kenny Cargill

    "Walter Mautner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Kenny wrote:
    >
    >> I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    >> natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using
    >> anthracite. Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for
    >> bringing the line over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power
    >> station. We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with
    >> the
    >> advantages of gas.

    >
    > If you want to keep it cheap, stay with a solid fuel furnace (coal or
    > timber). Unless you have to pay the man who heats it up and cleans it out.
    >
    >> 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and
    >> boiler house in our garden.

    >
    > Which "boiler house"? You aren't talking about heavy paraffine oil like
    > that
    > one used for ship engines?
    >
    >> 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    >> yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this
    >> since
    >> I don't believe their figures are totally independent.
    >> I have some reservations.
    >> 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    >> years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.

    >
    > Once the pipelines are there, liberation of trade (maybe after a initial
    > period) will allow to change the gas supplier, same as already is possible
    > for electricity.
    >
    >> 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining
    >> because
    >> of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the
    >> burner will be outside the house.

    >
    > I can't think of a oil burner outside. Usually you have to replace your
    > (coal) furnace, most probably in the cellar, with a oil or gas burner. Or
    > add a 2nd furnace so you can still switch, if you have enough room to
    > install. Or don't you have a central heating yet?
    >
    >> 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without
    >> fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps
    >> and leaving much of Europe in a panic.

    >
    > No panic in western Europe at least ... enough storage caves. Well, there
    > are some regulations in place regarding emergency and buffer storage
    > capacity.
    >
    >> The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since
    >> I believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.

    >
    > Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately, there is only a minor difference
    > between oil and gas, regarding CO2 emissions. Insulating your house could
    > have a bigger effect, as well as using timber and timber pellets for
    > heating.
    >
    >> Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    >> changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.
    >>

    > It is a international, not a local newsgroup here :)
    > --
    > vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse detected penguin patterns
    > on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    > incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    > Linux 2.6.14-mm1 [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]
    Kenny, Feb 11, 2006
    #9
  10. Kenny

    SgtMinor Guest

    SgtMinor, Feb 11, 2006
    #10
  11. Kenny

    AGEE Guest

    On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:07:34 -0000, "Kenny" <> wrote:

    >Thanks for all the replies.
    >I'm in N. Ireland which, (for now anyway), is still part of the UK but
    >energy prices here are notoriously much higher than the rest of the UK
    >All new/ish oil installations here have a little concrete boiler house as
    >well as the tank in the garden, it's only the hot water pipes which actually
    >come into the house.
    >To the person who asked why do we need a pipeline, how else is the gas going
    >to get here?


    Bottled gas or have a gas tank on the property filled from a tanker

    >Timber and/or timber pellets isn't an option here.
    >There's a public meeting coming up soon locally about it and we can air our
    >questions and concerns there and would like to go with some knowledge of
    >others experience.
    AGEE, Feb 11, 2006
    #11
  12. Kenny

    ftran999 Guest

    "Kenny" <> wrote in message
    news:dskeq7$1cu$...
    >I live in a local authority house and we are being given the choice of
    >natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating, currently using
    >anthracite.
    > Gas will be totally new in this area, the main reason for bringing the
    > line over from Belfast via Scotland is to feed a new power station.
    > We have reps from Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the
    > advantages of gas.
    > 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly tanks and
    > boiler house in our garden.
    > 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of £70 - £100
    > yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit suspicious of this since
    > I don't believe their figures are totally independent.
    > I have some reservations.
    > 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the first 2
    > years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop around.
    > 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide poisining because
    > of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly maintained), with oil the
    > burner will be outside the house.
    > 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us without
    > fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia turning off the taps
    > and leaving much of Europe in a panic.
    > The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower emissions since
    > I believe we should all be doing our bit for a cleaner world.
    > Have done some Googling but would appreciate hearing from anyone who has
    > changed from oil to gas, anyone using Firmus and any general comments.
    >
    > --
    > Kenny Cargill
    >
    >


    I would choose oil over gas for one reason and one reason only-safety. You
    are constantly hearing on the news about houses exploding do to faulty gas
    lines and heating systems. In fact there is a community here in MA were a
    family received quite a settlement from the local gas co. after an explosion
    resulted in the death of their 2 daughters. One of my neighbors had a gas
    explosion is the house and while thankfully noone was hurt it did cause some
    structural damage. You never here such cases with oil in the news.
    ftran999, Feb 11, 2006
    #12
  13. Kenny

    joevan Guest

    On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:12:23 -0600, The Old Sourdough
    <> wrote:

    >Rosco gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    >snip
    >>>

    >>
    >> I don't even think oil is offered in the US as a heating
    >> alternative,

    >
    >snip
    >
    >Don't get around much, do you? :) Roughly 7 per cent of US households use
    >oil for heating, the vast majority in the Northeast. In my area, a large
    >number use wood. I use wood myself, because decent firewood is quite
    >inexpensive locally. I pay about about $70 a cord and burn 3 to 4 cord
    >during the season. The fellow down the road from me has natural gas and
    >last winter paid over $450 for heat. What with the increases this winter,
    >even though the rates have slacked off somewhat, due to a milder winter in
    >this area than predicted, he told me he expects to pay about $600. I've
    >only burned about a cord and a half so far.
    >
    >Electric heat is not too expensive either, due to the fairly low electric
    >rates in this area (as compared to other parts of the US), even with a
    >roughly 8-10 per cent increase. Compared to natural gas or propane prices
    >here, electricity seems a bargain.


    Hah, I have been with oil heat for over 30 years, Gas here in Phila.
    Pa USA is a joke. Electricity is unbelievibly expensive.
    If I could use wood it would cost more prolly for the transportation
    and handling .
    I would love to use nuculear but the atomic energy commision said I
    was not allowed to set up my own reactor in my basement.
    --
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should both be changed frequently
    and for the same reason."
    joevan, Feb 11, 2006
    #13
  14. joevan gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    snip

    >
    > Hah, I have been with oil heat for over 30 years, Gas here in Phila.
    > Pa USA is a joke. Electricity is unbelievibly expensive.
    > If I could use wood it would cost more prolly for the transportation
    > and handling .
    > I would love to use nuculear but the atomic energy commision said I
    > was not allowed to set up my own reactor in my basement.



    Our electric rates here are a bit of a bargain, compared to other areas,
    about 7 cents per KWH. That compares to about 13 cents when I lived in San
    Diego in the early 80s. I shudder to think what they are now. When I worked
    at Hanford, Washington in the late 70s, our rates were less than 1 cent per
    KWH. Electricity was cheap enough that even though I had an all-electric
    house, I was billed bi-monthly, and my bill was almost never over $65-70
    for two months.

    You're right about wood being expensive where you are, as it is in most
    metro areas. Just 25 miles from here, in Louisville, wood will cost double
    to triple what it does here in the boonies.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is
    half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
    The Old Sourdough, Feb 11, 2006
    #14
  15. Kenny wrote:

    > Thanks for all the replies.
    > I'm in N. Ireland which, (for now anyway), is still part of the UK but
    > energy prices here are notoriously much higher than the rest of the UK
    > All new/ish oil installations here have a little concrete boiler house as
    > well as the tank in the garden, it's only the hot water pipes which
    > actually come into the house.


    When you order gas, wouldn't it be the same? Not much explosion hazard then.
    Well we had some gas explosions from leaking pipes emitting gas into
    old-town cellars, and for sure some CO intoxications from old unprotected
    unmaintained gas water heaters placed inside bathrooms.
    Here in "Good Old Europe" we have the oil tanks usually in the cellar, as
    well as the burners/heat exchangers (in a separate room). Guess noone would
    easily get permission to add another concrete hut in the front garden :)
    Now, for liquid gas, there has to be a (partially buried may be) tank
    outside, if the amount exceeds one or two 10l-bootles of gas.

    > To the person who asked why do we need a pipeline, how else is the gas
    > going to get here?
    > Timber and/or timber pellets isn't an option here.


    Worried to leave not enough trees for the dogs? ;-)

    > There's a public meeting coming up soon locally about it and we can air
    > our questions and concerns there and would like to go with some knowledge
    > of others experience.
    >

    If possible, I would keep the coal furnace as a reserve, and use gas with
    central heating and water warming (but not a multiple of gas pipes into the
    house).
    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse detected penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.14-mm1 [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]
    Walter Mautner, Feb 11, 2006
    #15
  16. ftran999 gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    snip

    > I would choose oil over gas for one reason and one reason only-safety.
    > You are constantly hearing on the news about houses exploding do to
    > faulty gas lines and heating systems. In fact there is a community
    > here in MA were a family received quite a settlement from the local
    > gas co. after an explosion resulted in the death of their 2 daughters.
    > One of my neighbors had a gas explosion is the house and while
    > thankfully noone was hurt it did cause some structural damage. You
    > never here such cases with oil in the news.
    >
    >
    >


    The key word here is "faulty". If you think that a faulty oil burner can't
    have the same sorts of issues, you're sorely mistaken. Any time you deal
    with combustion, whether it be gas, oil, wood, or anything else used as
    fuel, you need to have a well-maintained, properly functioning system.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is
    half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
    The Old Sourdough, Feb 11, 2006
    #16
  17. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Yes but the oil burner will be OUTSIDE the house, the gas burner INSIDE.

    --
    Kenny Cargill

    "The Old Sourdough" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns97679C92E30241258ggbeerisgood@216.196.97.131...
    > ftran999 gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    > snip
    >
    >> I would choose oil over gas for one reason and one reason only-safety.
    >> You are constantly hearing on the news about houses exploding do to
    >> faulty gas lines and heating systems. In fact there is a community
    >> here in MA were a family received quite a settlement from the local
    >> gas co. after an explosion resulted in the death of their 2 daughters.
    >> One of my neighbors had a gas explosion is the house and while
    >> thankfully noone was hurt it did cause some structural damage. You
    >> never here such cases with oil in the news.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > The key word here is "faulty". If you think that a faulty oil burner can't
    > have the same sorts of issues, you're sorely mistaken. Any time you deal
    > with combustion, whether it be gas, oil, wood, or anything else used as
    > fuel, you need to have a well-maintained, properly functioning system.
    >
    > --
    > The Old Sourdough
    > To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is
    > half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
    Kenny, Feb 11, 2006
    #17
  18. Kenny wrote:

    "The Old Sourdough" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns97679C92E30241258ggbeerisgood@216.196.97.131...
    > ftran999 gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:
    >
    > snip
    >
    >>> I would choose oil over gas for one reason and one reason
    >>> only-safety. You are constantly hearing on the news about houses
    >>> exploding do to faulty gas lines and heating systems. In fact
    >>> there is a community here in MA were a family received quite a
    >>> settlement from the local gas co. after an explosion resulted in
    >>> the death of their 2 daughters. One of my neighbors had a gas
    >>> explosion is the house and while thankfully noone was hurt it did
    >>> cause some structural damage. You never here such cases with oil
    >>> in the news.

    >>
    >> The key word here is "faulty". If you think that a faulty oil burner
    >> can't have the same sorts of issues, you're sorely mistaken. Any
    >> time you deal with combustion, whether it be gas, oil, wood, or
    >> anything else used as fuel, you need to have a well-maintained,
    >> properly functioning system.

    >
    > Yes but the oil burner will be OUTSIDE the house, the gas burner
    > INSIDE.


    In my former house, the oil furnace was in the basement, along with the
    250 gallon tank. I have never seen an oil furnace/burner outside the
    house.

    I think the media tends to give more top-page space to houses that
    *explode* rather than those that simply burn to the ground, as is likely
    with a faulty oil furnace.

    My current house has two gas furnaces, a gas water heater, and four gas
    ranges. (It has four apartments, my 11-room quarters and three
    one-bedroom apartments that I rent out. 24 rooms and 4,200 square feet.)

    All of these gas appliances are serviced regularly.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 11, 2006
    #18
  19. Kenny gibbered in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > Yes but the oil burner will be OUTSIDE the house, the gas burner INSIDE.
    >


    Yes, in your case, but that's not applicable to *all* installations.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is
    half empty. To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
    The Old Sourdough, Feb 11, 2006
    #19
  20. Kenny

    Billh Guest

    Rosco wrote:
    > =?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= cried out
    >
    >> Kenny wrote:
    >>> I live in a local authority house and we are being given the
    >>> choice of natural gas or oil as an upgrade to our heating,
    >>> currently using anthracite. Gas will be totally new in this area,
    >>> the main reason for bringing the line over from Belfast via
    >>> Scotland is to feed a new power station. We have reps from
    >>> Firmus, the gas company, bombarding us with the advantages of
    >>> gas. 1. Much cleaner with 30% less harmful emissions and no ugly
    >>> tanks and boiler house in our garden.
    >>> 2. Lower costs, price frozen for first 2 years and a saving of
    >>> £70 - £100 yearly for average 3 bed house. I would be a bit
    >>> suspicious of this since I don't believe their figures are
    >>> totally independent. I have some reservations.
    >>> 1. This firm would have a total monopoly on supply and after the
    >>> first 2 years could charge what they like, with oil I could shop
    >>> around. 2. Have heard reports of people dying of carbon monoxide
    >>> poisining because of gas appliances, (perhaps faulty or badly
    >>> maintained), with oil the burner will be outside the house.
    >>> 3. A fault or stoppage anywhere along the line would leave us
    >>> without fuel, I'm thinking of recent news reports of Russia
    >>> turning off the taps and leaving much of Europe in a panic.
    >>> The only thing which would attract me to gas is the lower
    >>> emissions since I believe we should all be doing our bit for a
    >>> cleaner world. Have done some Googling but would appreciate
    >>> hearing from anyone who has changed from oil to gas, anyone using
    >>> Firmus and any general comments.
    >>>

    >> I'd change to gas from oil, given the chance.
    >>
    >> An oil tank holds a several hundred quid's worth of fuel. If you
    >> are lucky the thief will syphon it off and not just punch a hole
    >> in the tank, take what he can and leave the rest to run into the
    >> subsoil.
    >>
    >> If your garden is sheltered from breezes, on a hot Summer's Day,
    >> all you will smell in the garden is kerosene and not the flowers.
    >>
    >> You can get CO alarms, just like smoke alarms. But modern gas
    >> boilers have all sorts of safeguards built in, IIUC.
    >>
    >> But I don't understand why you need an oil boiler house in the
    >> garden - mine is in the house and looks the same as a gas one -
    >> and doesn't smell, other than for the few days after it has been
    >> serviced. The boiler doesn't need to be gravity fed from the oil
    >> tank - once primed the built in oil pump can cope with quite a
    >> height difference and they can add a tiny electrical external pump
    >> next to the tank, if need be.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I don't even think oil is offered in the US as a heating
    > alternative, we have natural gas, LP gas, and electric. People who
    > suffer the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning typically did not
    > maintain thier appliances, once a year have someone come inspect
    > your appliances for clogs and such, its that simple. An inspeaction
    > runs around 50-75 US dollars around here. They check to make sure
    > nothing is clogged, dirty, set incorrectly, worn out, faulty,
    > leaking, etc... and like the last post said, A CO2 detector is one
    > of the best safegaurds. A CO2/Smoke detector on every floor,
    > preferably, every room of your home can save your life.

    I am sitting in a house that is heated by oil that is in the US. I know
    it is not common in the west or south but her in New England it is very
    common.

    To the OP one thing I would look at is at least here in New England
    houses with natural gas piped in to them from time to time EXPLODE! In
    my town last spring a trash truck nicked a pipe at a house and a few
    days latter when the gas company was there checking out a report of a
    gas leak the whole thing blow up. No one was hurt but it was a mess.
    Billh, Feb 12, 2006
    #20
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