My experiences with Linux of recently.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Waylon Kenning, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
    Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.

    Installation:
    I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
    contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
    using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
    really professional. My only concern is still being able to select
    packages from multiple discs, and then when installing if you don't
    have those discs, you have no option except to reboot.

    So a good idea seems to be dual booting between Fedora Core 2 and
    Windows XP (Fedora users know what I'm about to say next). Well, that
    dreadful dual boot error that doesn't allow Windows XP to start
    occurred (the hard drive geometry error). OK, no Windows XP. You may
    say that Windows XP wont even do dual booting with Linux, however, I'd
    rather not say something and not do it, than say I do something and
    still not do it.

    Usage:
    Always my enthusiasm of Linux wanes when I need to connect to the
    internet because my controllerless modem needs drivers above and
    beyond those which come with Linux distributions (Rockwell PCI56kRVP+
    modem). However, since last time I've looked, there is now a serious
    attempt and getting modem drivers available for my modem. So I look at
    the Linuxant site (http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/). Here they
    proceed to charge me for my modem drivers. While this is no jig
    against Linux, this is a jig against hardware manufacturers to think a
    little about alternate operating systems. Even so, I'm not paying
    $15US which equates to more than the price of a new modem
    (http://www.azatech.co.nz/azanew/main/nt.asp?make=116).

    One advantage of Linux is the wealth of software that comes with
    normal distributions. So I decide to install additional software from
    the distribution cds. This proceeds relatively painlessly until
    Automount stops working. That's right, no more CD on the desktop
    appears, and no amount of pressing the eject button on the CDROM will
    allow the tray to appear. Using my rudimentary knowledge of command
    line things, I type "umount /dev/cdrom" followed by "eject" and repeat
    every time the installer wants to install a new program. Which BTW,
    doesn't install all programs on disc 1, then programs on disc 2 etc...
    but installs a couple of programs on disc 1, then some on disc 2, then
    a couple more on disc 1 etc... The net result is that I typed the
    eject command about 15 times. I wasn't terribly impressed. However,
    upgrading those programs installed is a breeze by simply typing "yum
    upgrade" at a command line, which pretty much upgrades your whole OS
    to bleeding edge. Which is good. I do wish windows had this.

    In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better. A
    "fixmbr" and "fixboot" later at the recovery console, XP still wont
    boot. A reinstall later XP still wont boot. A fresh install on the
    same partition later, XP still wont boot. A fresh install later on a
    freshly formatted partition, XP boots. Hurrah! However, from there the
    rest of the installation is a breeze. It even configures my modem for
    me, and sets up a dial up connection:)

    So linux, it was nice knowing you, I'll talk to you again in 12
    months, and we'll do this little dance again. Hopefully by that time,
    I'll have broadband, so my results may vary.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 11, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Waylon Kenning

    steve Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:

    > In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    > the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.


    I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.

    ......If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)

    --
    Distributed Computing Projects:
    SETI at Home
    http://boinc.mundayweb.com/seti2/stats.php?userID=1248
    ClimatePrediction.net
    http://boinc.mundayweb.com/cpdn/stats.php?userID=334
    steve, Nov 11, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Waylon Kenning

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >
    > > In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    > > the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

    >
    > I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
    >
    > .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    > have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)


    Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
    Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
    Mr Scebe, Nov 11, 2004
    #3
  4. Waylon Kenning

    Peter Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:
    > Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
    > Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.
    > I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
    > contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
    > using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
    > really professional.


    Installing an OS requires a bit more understanding / skill than just using a
    computer. This applies with any OS; Windows, Linux, whatever. You might
    find it easier to get someone knowledgable about these things to install
    the OS for you. Or buy a PC with Linux ready installed - there are a few
    places that do this if you look around.

    I don't have any training in IT, but have installed many Linux systems. A
    few years ago, I moved from Redhat to Mandrake because of difficulties with
    winmodems. You might find it easier to get the modem going in Mandrake.

    Anyway, isn't Fedora the development version of Redhat? That would mean it
    definitely isn't for beginners.

    HTH

    Peter
    Peter, Nov 11, 2004
    #4
  5. steve wrote:
    >>In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    >>the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.


    > I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
    > .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    > have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)


    Why "SHOULD (he) have"?
    Who are you to force hardware choices on him?
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Nov 11, 2004
    #5
  6. Waylon Kenning

    Chris Hope Guest

    Mr Scebe wrote:

    >
    > "steve" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >>
    >> > In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    >> > the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

    >>
    >> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed.
    >>
    >> .....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    >> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)

    >
    > Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
    > Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?


    There are good things and bad things about Linux, just as there are good
    things and bad things about Windows and many other operating systems.

    One of the trickiest things with Linux tends to be installing hardware
    because the manufacturers often don't make drivers for Linux (or other
    non-Windows operating systems) because the market is still small, and it
    can be difficult (or impossible) to find 3rd party drivers on the Internet.

    Winmodems are a particular problem because they are software modems:

    "A Winmodem is a software modem designed to work with the Microsoft Windows
    operating system. A traditional modem uses hardware to perform its tasks,
    but Winmodems perform their key tasks with software. This makes them
    smaller and cheaper to produce, but it also means they cannot be easily
    used on other operating systems because the driver support requires far
    more effort to produce." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winmodem

    And it's not just Linux that has problems with winmodems. I've had all sorts
    of trouble in the past when trying to reinstall Windows from scratch and
    getting winmodems to work. In one instance I had to resort to buying a
    proper modem because it just wouldn't install.

    --
    Chris Hope - The Electric Toolbox - http://www.electrictoolbox.com/
    Chris Hope, Nov 11, 2004
    #6
  7. Waylon Kenning

    tatties Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > steve wrote:
    >>>In the end, lack of network connectivity killed Linux for me again for
    >>>the next 12 months or so, not that Windows XP really is much better.

    >
    >> I'm not sure it's Linux that failed. .....If you bought a hardware modem
    >> in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    >> have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)

    >
    > Why "SHOULD (he) have"?
    > Who are you to force hardware choices on him?



    Because it would work ?
    Tough choice ;-)
    Linux will really suffer without him, but if he can't figure out shit like
    this he will have no chance getting his head around LTSP.
    He made his choice, he bought the modem, the modem manufacturer told him
    that the modem was made for Windows and included Windows software only. It
    wouldn't work on Windows without that driver, ie without the driver it is
    not a modem, only a component of one.
    He could have bought the binary driver off a third party developer, or
    chosen another type of $39.95 Winmodem which included software for Linux.
    Intel or or Lucent maybe.
    Several distros bundle the Conexant driver, but its not an open source
    driver.
    tatties, Nov 11, 2004
    #7
  8. Waylon Kenning

    Bok Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:
    > Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
    > Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.

    [ snip ]
    > So linux, it was nice knowing you, I'll talk to you again in 12
    > months, and we'll do this little dance again. Hopefully by that time,
    > I'll have broadband, so my results may vary.


    Waylon,

    Next time you try linux I would recommend starting with one of the Live
    CD distros such as Knoppix to verify support for your hardware. It's
    quick and painless and will save you time. If your hardware is not fully
    supported under Knoppix, it's likely you will have difficulty getting a
    standard distro installed and working.

    The [lack of] winmodem support on linux is perhaps the biggest stumbling
    blocks for windows users attempting to try out linux.

    The dual boot issue you mentioned could almost certainly be resolved
    with a bit of effort and infroamtion. I've multi-booted various windows
    O/S from NT/2k/XP with various different linux distros and have never
    encountered an issue that cannot be resolved. Any linux user group will
    be able to help out with this.
    Bok, Nov 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Waylon Kenning

    Bret Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:10:52 +1300, Bok wrote:

    > The dual boot issue you mentioned could almost certainly be resolved
    > with a bit of effort and infroamtion.


    Changing the Bios to LBA on the boot drive would have fixed it.
    Bret, Nov 11, 2004
    #9
  10. Waylon Kenning

    tatties Guest

    "Waylon Kenning" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Like the coming of summer, I regularly get seduced by the virtues of
    > Linux, and decide to try it for myself. Here's my experiences.
    >
    > Installation:
    > I'm using K12LTSP 4.1.0 based on the Fedora Core 2 code, because it
    > contains a lot of educational software, and I'm doing research into
    > using it in schools.The installer looks lovely. Fedora's looking
    > really professional. My only concern is still being able to select
    > packages from multiple discs, and then when installing if you don't
    > have those discs, you have no option except to reboot.
    >
    > So a good idea seems to be dual booting between Fedora Core 2 and
    > Windows XP (Fedora users know what I'm about to say next). Well, that
    > dreadful dual boot error that doesn't allow Windows XP to start
    > occurred (the hard drive geometry error). OK, no Windows XP. You may
    > say that Windows XP wont even do dual booting with Linux, however, I'd
    > rather not say something and not do it, than say I do something and
    > still not do it.
    >


    You could fix it
    http://www.fedorafaq.org/#nodualboot
    http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-May/msg00908.html
    tatties, Nov 11, 2004
    #10
  11. Waylon Kenning

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:07:09 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:

    > So linux, it was nice knowing you, I'll talk to you again in 12
    > months, and we'll do this little dance again. Hopefully by that time,
    > I'll have broadband, so my results may vary.


    You know, I have seen MS Windows folks who have gone from 2000 to XP and
    gone, What is this and where is everything?

    Fedora is also the cutting edge of Red Hat.

    Nevertheless, if one wants to change be in control of another OS then one
    needs to stick with it and work thru the "problems".

    The only place sucess comes before work is in the dictionary.

    Your choice.
    Gordon, Nov 12, 2004
    #11
  12. Waylon Kenning

    Gordon Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:57:27 +1300, Mr Scebe wrote:

    > Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
    > Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?


    The problem you are talking about is the modem manufactures not being
    helpful in releasing the data needed for someone to write the OSS driver.

    Some manufacturer's are on the ball enough to realise that to sell their
    hardware they need to be able to offer drivers, of show that drivers for
    all platforms are availiable.
    Gordon, Nov 12, 2004
    #12
  13. Waylon Kenning

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "Gordon" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:57:27 +1300, Mr Scebe wrote:
    >
    > > Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
    > > Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?

    >
    > The problem you are talking about is the modem manufactures not being
    > helpful in releasing the data needed for someone to write the OSS driver.
    >
    > Some manufacturer's are on the ball enough to realise that to sell their
    > hardware they need to be able to offer drivers, of show that drivers for
    > all platforms are availiable.


    No the manufacturers, like everyone need to identify their target market -
    in this case they've determined that Linux doesn't register on their radar,
    that they are making a product specifically for Windows (or does Winmodem
    mean something else?) and they presumably don't see that they're missing any
    sales by not providing for a small niche market segment.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
    Mr Scebe, Nov 12, 2004
    #13
  14. Mr Scebe said the following on 12/11/2004 17:04:
    > "Gordon" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >
    >>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 05:57:27 +1300, Mr Scebe wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Of course, you can have any colour as long as it's black! I thought this
    >>>Linux was a superior being to XP, not some crippled wannabie?

    >>
    >>The problem you are talking about is the modem manufactures not being
    >>helpful in releasing the data needed for someone to write the OSS driver.
    >>
    >>Some manufacturer's are on the ball enough to realise that to sell their
    >>hardware they need to be able to offer drivers, of show that drivers for
    >>all platforms are availiable.

    >
    >
    > No the manufacturers, like everyone need to identify their target market -
    > in this case they've determined that Linux doesn't register on their radar,
    > that they are making a product specifically for Windows (or does Winmodem
    > mean something else?) and they presumably don't see that they're missing any
    > sales by not providing for a small niche market segment.
    >

    Softmodem = Winmodem and to quote a group stalwart "It is crap"

    --
    >>Follow ups may be set to a single group when appropriate!

    ======================================================================
    | Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E |
    ======================================================================
    "I used to jog, but the ice kept bouncing out of my glass."
    Geek used to be a 4 letter word now it's a 6 figure number
    Collector»NZ, Nov 12, 2004
    #14
  15. It seems like Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:08:22 +1300 was when steve
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >.....If you bought a hardware modem in the first place.....as you SHOULD
    >have (prudent eye to the future)......then there would be no issue. :)


    Alas, when I got my computer in 1999 I was 14, had no knowledge of
    computers prior except with a C64 and Amiga A500. No one ever said
    that this modem was specific to Windows. Still, I suppose it is a
    cheap way of consumer lock in, if hardware only works with certain
    operating systems.

    If anyone has a hardware 56K modem they're willing to trade for 2 56K
    winmodems, drop me an email.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 12, 2004
    #15
  16. It seems like Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:17:53 +1300 was when "tatties"
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >Linux will really suffer without him, but if he can't figure out shit like
    >this he will have no chance getting his head around LTSP.

    How can I be expected to put software into schools when I come up
    against basic errors like drives not automounting correctly? Do you
    really want me to tell the woodwork teacher who hasn't had
    professional development in 30 years to type "umount /dev/cdrom then
    eject, wash rinse and repeat"?

    >He made his choice, he bought the modem, the modem manufacturer told him
    >that the modem was made for Windows and included Windows software only. It
    >wouldn't work on Windows without that driver, ie without the driver it is
    >not a modem, only a component of one.

    Actually, when buying the computer (not that I knew what linux was at
    the time), no where did it state that that modem only featured Windows
    drivers only and was for the most part incompatible with other
    operating systems. In fact, I don't know if current computer
    manufacturers have statements like that either. Not all consumers !=
    members of nz.comp and are used to thinking about things such as
    these.

    So I plead ignorance as my defense:)
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 12, 2004
    #16
  17. It seems like Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:59:55 +1300 was when Peter
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >Installing an OS requires a bit more understanding / skill than just using a
    >computer. This applies with any OS; Windows, Linux, whatever. You might
    >find it easier to get someone knowledgable about these things to install
    >the OS for you. Or buy a PC with Linux ready installed - there are a few
    >places that do this if you look around.

    Hi Peter, you have valid points. But why is installing an OS any more
    difficult than using a computer? After all, installing an OS is just
    installing software, something that many people with computers have
    done in their lifetime (most likely). Money's an interesting factor,
    but if an operating system is not easy to use, then why switch from
    the status quo if you're a typical consumer who doesn't care about
    free as in free speech but is more interested in things working first
    time.

    >I don't have any training in IT, but have installed many Linux systems. A
    >few years ago, I moved from Redhat to Mandrake because of difficulties with
    >winmodems. You might find it easier to get the modem going in Mandrake.

    Alas, the K12LTSP distribution is based around Fedora, however, their
    next release shall see the K12LTSP files migrated away and turned into
    a stand alone RPM to be installed on any distribution compatible with
    RPM.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 12, 2004
    #17
  18. It seems like Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:10:52 +1300 was when Bok
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >The dual boot issue you mentioned could almost certainly be resolved
    >with a bit of effort and infroamtion. I've multi-booted various windows
    >O/S from NT/2k/XP with various different linux distros and have never
    >encountered an issue that cannot be resolved. Any linux user group will
    >be able to help out with this.


    I know the issue could have been resolved, but it's hard to search the
    internet for information if you don't have a modem!

    The dual booting issue with Fedora Core 2 was mentioned in depth in
    the Linux Format magazine with Fedora Core 2 on the cover, however, it
    wouldn't be expected that every has a copy of that magazine, or
    everyone can even *get* that magazine, or have access to LUGs or
    whatever...

    For the record, I'm not a linux hater, I'm not a windows hater. I have
    the mindset of a beginner when it comes to computers (helps when you
    work with teachers), and if there's a problem I'd like to iron it out
    before users encounter it.
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 12, 2004
    #18
  19. Waylon Kenning

    David Preece Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:
    > Do you
    > really want me to tell the woodwork teacher who hasn't had
    > professional development in 30 years to type "umount /dev/cdrom then
    > eject, wash rinse and repeat"?


    Precisely. Desktop Linux in high density, single image corporate
    installs is just starting to become a good idea. But where you have a
    wide variety of hardware and a paucity of tech support (I just met a guy
    who is the sole support resource for 46 schools), this kind of crap is
    just not going to cut the mustard.

    Buy a Mac :)

    Dave
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #19
  20. It seems like Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:04:00 +1300 was when David Preece
    <> said Blah blah blah...

    >Precisely. Desktop Linux in high density, single image corporate
    >installs is just starting to become a good idea. But where you have a
    >wide variety of hardware and a paucity of tech support (I just met a guy
    >who is the sole support resource for 46 schools), this kind of crap is
    >just not going to cut the mustard.


    I'm glad someone understands my way of thinking:)

    >Buy a Mac :)

    Uh, I don't think that schools that can't afford new PCs probably can
    afford new Macs :)
    --
    Regards,
    Waylon Kenning.

    1st Year B.I.T. WelTec
    Waylon Kenning, Nov 12, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Agent777

    Order of Recently Viewed Sites

    Agent777, May 22, 2005, in forum: Firefox
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,175
    Moz Champion
    May 25, 2005
  2. Agent777

    Recently Visited Sites Gone

    Agent777, Jun 23, 2005, in forum: Firefox
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    3,194
    Agent777
    Jun 24, 2005
  3. Kline Sphere
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,878
    Kline Sphere
    Jun 28, 2003
  4. NC
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    542
  5. Have a nice cup of pee

    Linux... yeah linux.. Linux

    Have a nice cup of pee, Apr 12, 2006, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    19
    Views:
    646
    Bette Noir
    Apr 17, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page