My afternoon

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by PeterN, May 22, 2013.

  1. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.

    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>

    As usual all comments are appreciated.
    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 22, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. PeterN

    PhotoPhartz Guest

    PeterN <> wrote in news:519c371d$0$10781
    $-secrets.com:

    > Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >
    > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >
    > As usual all comments are appreciated.



    Looks like a nice afternoon. I like the mix of colors. Good shot.

    --

    Pat

    email: phartzATcoxDOTnet
    PhotoPhartz, May 22, 2013
    #2
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  3. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >
    >> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >>
    >>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>
    >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>
    >>> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >>
    >> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.

    >
    > Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)
    > < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >


    Yup ;-)
    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 22, 2013
    #3
  4. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/21/2013 11:57 PM, PhotoPhartz wrote:
    > PeterN <> wrote in news:519c371d$0$10781
    > $-secrets.com:
    >
    >> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>
    >> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>
    >> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >
    >
    > Looks like a nice afternoon. I like the mix of colors. Good shot.
    >


    Thanks. It was a severe crop.
    Than beach had two breeding colonies about 1/2 a mile apart. Both with
    oyster catchers, skimmers, common terns, and plovers. the more
    productive colony was devastated by Sandy.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 22, 2013
    #4
  5. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Wed, 22 May 2013 15:02:51 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:
    >
    >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck
    >>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)
    >>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >
    >>>
    >>> Yup ;-)
    >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>

    >
    >Why
    >>>

    >> is the sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?

    >
    >Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO
    >1600. Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect
    >the mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise
    >reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%
    >jpeg compression he used.


    What you see in Peter's image is a fairly common result of a major
    crop. I would not ascribe it to ISO.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, May 23, 2013
    #5
  6. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/22/2013 6:02 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:
    >
    >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck
    >>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <>
    >>>>> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)
    >>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >
    >>>
    >>> Yup ;-)
    >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>
    >>>

    >
    > Why
    >>>

    >> is the sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?

    >
    > Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO 1600.
    > Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect the
    > mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise
    > reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%
    > jpeg compression he used.
    >
    >

    I did very little in post, except for some NR. The image is an extreme
    crop.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 23, 2013
    #6
  7. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/23/2013 12:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-05-22 20:49:17 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 5/22/2013 6:02 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <>
    >>> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck
    >>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <>
    >>>>>>> said:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)
    >>>>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yup ;-)
    >>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>
    >>>>>

    >
    >
    > Why
    >
    > is
    >>>>>
    >>>> the sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?
    >>>
    >>> Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO 1600.
    >>> Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect the
    >>> mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise
    >>> reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%
    >>> jpeg compression he used.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I did very little in post, except for some NR. The image is an extreme
    >> crop.

    >
    > I guess the NR might have done those blotches in the sky. If not,
    > another explanation is needed.
    >
    >


    I will send you a link to that, or a similar NEF file for you to play
    with. But don't expect it tonight.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 23, 2013
    #7
  8. PeterN

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:34:56 AM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
    > On Wed, 22 May 2013 15:02:51 -0700, Savageduck
    >
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > >On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:

    >
    > >

    >
    > >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN

    >
    > >> <> wrote:

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:

    >
    > >>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck

    >
    > >>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:

    >
    > >>>>

    >
    > >>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <> said:

    >
    > >>>>>

    >
    > >>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.

    >
    > >>>>>>

    >
    > >>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>

    >
    > >>>>>>

    >
    > >>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >
    > >>>>>

    >
    > >>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.

    >
    > >>>>

    >
    > >>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)

    >
    > >>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >>> Yup ;-)

    >
    > >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>

    >
    > >

    >
    > >Why

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >> is the sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?

    >
    > >

    >
    > >Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO

    >
    > >1600. Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect

    >
    > >the mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise

    >
    > >reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%

    >
    > >jpeg compression he used.

    >
    >
    >
    > What you see in Peter's image is a fairly common result of a major
    >
    > crop. I would not ascribe it to ISO.


    So was it flying over wheat, maise or barely or maybe rape seed, we need to know what this crop was ;-)
    Whisky-dave, May 23, 2013
    #8
  9. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/23/2013 12:48 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2013-05-22 21:45:54 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 5/23/2013 12:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2013-05-22 20:49:17 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 5/22/2013 6:02 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>> On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <>
    >>>>> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN
    >>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck
    >>>>>>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <>
    >>>>>>>>> said:
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)
    >>>>>>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Yup ;-)
    >>>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>
    >>>>>>>

    >
    >
    >
    > Why
    >
    > is
    >
    > the
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO
    >>>>> 1600.
    >>>>> Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect the
    >>>>> mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise
    >>>>> reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%
    >>>>> jpeg compression he used.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> I did very little in post, except for some NR. The image is an extreme
    >>>> crop.
    >>>
    >>> I guess the NR might have done those blotches in the sky. If not,
    >>> another explanation is needed.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> I will send you a link to that, or a similar NEF file for you to play
    >> with. But don't expect it tonight.

    >
    > OK! That should be another interesting exercise.
    >
    >


    Already sent
    duplicate of the link. It is not the same image, but was taken at or
    about the same time, under the same conditions.
    <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/_DSC3770_3326.NEF>

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 23, 2013
    #9
  10. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/23/2013 4:40 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > PeterN <> wrote:
    >> On 5/23/2013 12:39 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2013-05-22 20:49:17 -0700, PeterN <> said:
    >>>>> Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO 1600.
    >>>>> Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect the
    >>>>> mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise
    >>>>> reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%
    >>>>> jpeg compression he used.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> I did very little in post, except for some NR. The image is an extreme
    >>>> crop.
    >>>
    >>> I guess the NR might have done those blotches in the sky. If not,
    >>> another explanation is needed.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> I will send you a link to that, or a similar NEF file
    >> for you to play with. But don't expect it tonight.

    >
    > I would enjoy working with the original NEF file on that
    > one.
    >
    > I did download the JPEG image, and pretty much "fixed"
    > it. But there is only so much that can be done with it,
    > primarily because it is a relatively small JPEG.
    >
    > The first and most obvious characteristics are that ISO
    > was not really much of a problem, nor was anything "due
    > to the 98% jpeg compression".
    >
    > The difference between ISO 100 and ISO 1600 with a Nikon
    > D800 camera is limited to the lower ISO having just over
    > 4 stops better dynamic range, but the ISO 1600 still has
    > more dynamic range than can be displayed with a JPEG
    > formatted image, hence we can't see that difference
    > anyway. And compression artifacts are not directly the
    > problem, if for no other reason than the JPEG quality
    > was set to 89%, and anything greater would have only
    > make the file size larger without any benefit.
    >
    > That said, the tonal range could be better adjusted in
    > post processing to take advantage of the existing
    > dynamic range. A little more contrast and a little
    > extra brightness gives it some pop.
    >
    > The JPEG artifacts appear to be the effect of generating
    > a JPEG and cropping that and then saving the result as a
    > JPEG. A better technique would be to either crop the
    > NEF file or convert it to an intermediate TIFF and crop
    > that before saving as a JPEG.
    >
    > The noise reduction can also be much better done. What
    > we can see most predominantly in the sky is Photon
    > Noise, though there is some weird looking color
    > blotching below the bird of undetermined cause (it might
    > be wisps of clouds, but the purple-ish color is really
    > strange).
    >
    > Whatever, noise reduction should not be done on the entire
    > image as a whole, but only on the sky an not at all on the
    > bird. The bird itself might even benefit from a bit of
    > Unsharp Mask (particularly on the head).
    >
    > Make an NEF file available and I'll post both the best I
    > was able to do with your original JPEG and what I can
    > manage with the NEF as the starting point.
    >


    Be happy to have your inputtoo. As I said iit was an extremecrop.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 23, 2013
    #10
  11. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/23/2013 3:20 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    > PeterN <> wrote:
    >> On 5/23/2013 4:40 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
    >>> Make an NEF file available and I'll post both the best I
    >>> was able to do with your original JPEG and what I can
    >>> manage with the NEF as the starting point.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Be happy to have your inputtoo. As I said iit was an extremecrop.

    >
    > Fun... but after spending an hour or so I'm ready to say right now
    > that I'm never going to get anything "better" than what you did! A
    > little different, but anything that makes it better in one way always
    > comes at the cost of not so good in some other way.
    >
    > I'll have more time later and will try a few more ideas.
    >


    Enjoy.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 23, 2013
    #11
  12. PeterN

    Rikishi42 Guest

    On 2013-05-22, PeterN <> wrote:
    > Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >
    ><https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >
    > As usual all comments are appreciated.


    First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    underscore for that. :)
    Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.


    OK, real comment: that is a very nice image. Very nice. Speaking as a
    complete amateur, I'm afraid, but one can admire without analysing.


    --
    When in doubt, use brute force.
    -- Ken Thompson
    Rikishi42, May 23, 2013
    #12
  13. PeterN

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Rikishi42
    <> wrote:

    > First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    > underscore for that. :)
    > Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.


    there's absolutely nothing wrong with spaces in filenames, and hasn't
    been for 30 years or so.
    nospam, May 24, 2013
    #13
  14. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 5/23/2013 6:15 PM, Rikishi42 wrote:
    > On 2013-05-22, PeterN <> wrote:
    >> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>
    >> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>
    >> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >
    > First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    > underscore for that. :)
    > Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.
    >

    I can understand your comment. When I first started putting spaces in
    file names, I felt like I was eating sardines with peanut butter. But,
    one gets used to that sort of thing.

    >
    > OK, real comment: that is a very nice image. Very nice. Speaking as a
    > complete amateur, I'm afraid, but one can admire without analysing.
    >
    >

    Thank you for looking.
    Feel free to post your images. We try to give constructive comments.
    It's a great way to learn.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, May 24, 2013
    #14
  15. PeterN

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Thu, 23 May 2013 07:44:02 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    <> wrote:

    >On Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:34:56 AM UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
    >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 15:02:51 -0700, Savageduck
    >>
    >> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >On 2013-05-22 14:13:39 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:

    >>
    >> >

    >>
    >> >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 08:30:32 -0400, PeterN

    >>
    >> >> <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >>

    >>
    >> >>> On 5/21/2013 11:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:

    >>
    >> >>>> On 2013-05-21 20:37:37 -0700, Savageduck

    >>
    >> >>>> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> said:

    >>
    >> >>>>

    >>
    >> >>>>> On 2013-05-21 20:10:28 -0700, PeterN <> said:

    >>
    >> >>>>>

    >>
    >> >>>>>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.

    >>
    >> >>>>>>

    >>
    >> >>>>>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>

    >>
    >> >>>>>>

    >>
    >> >>>>>> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >>
    >> >>>>>

    >>
    >> >>>>> Aah! An American Oystercatcher family. Haematopus palliatus.

    >>
    >> >>>>

    >>
    >> >>>> Sometimes they catch more than oysters. ;-)

    >>
    >> >>>> < http://db.tt/LTcw3YrI >

    >>
    >> >>>

    >>
    >> >>> Yup ;-)

    >>
    >> >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/oyster%20catcher%20with%20fish%20flying.jpg>

    >>
    >> >

    >>
    >> >Why

    >>
    >> >>>

    >>
    >> >> is the sky mottled? Is it residual noise, or what?

    >>
    >> >

    >>
    >> >Peter loves to use unnecessarily high ISO values, in this case ISO

    >>
    >> >1600. Then there is no telling what he actually did in post. I suspect

    >>
    >> >the mottled color effect on in the sky might be a result of some noise

    >>
    >> >reduction, or perhaps it might be compression artifacts due to the 98%

    >>
    >> >jpeg compression he used.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> What you see in Peter's image is a fairly common result of a major
    >>
    >> crop. I would not ascribe it to ISO.

    >
    >So was it flying over wheat, maise or barely or maybe rape seed, we need to know what this crop was ;-)


    Just barely.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, May 24, 2013
    #15
  16. PeterN

    nospam Guest

    In article <519ebcc5$0$10768$-secrets.com>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > > First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    > > underscore for that. :)
    > > Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.
    > >

    > I can understand your comment. When I first started putting spaces in
    > file names, I felt like I was eating sardines with peanut butter. But,
    > one gets used to that sort of thing.


    nothing unusual about putting spaces in titles. people have been doing
    that for centuries.

    it's not a big deal for a computer to handle it, and they have been for
    roughly 30 years.
    nospam, May 24, 2013
    #16
  17. PeterN

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Floyd L. Davidson
    <> wrote:

    > >> > First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent
    > >> > the
    > >> > underscore for that. :)
    > >> > Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.
    > >> >
    > >> I can understand your comment. When I first started putting spaces in
    > >> file names, I felt like I was eating sardines with peanut butter. But,
    > >> one gets used to that sort of thing.

    > >
    > >nothing unusual about putting spaces in titles. people have been doing
    > >that for centuries.
    > >
    > >it's not a big deal for a computer to handle it, and they have been for
    > >roughly 30 years.

    >
    > Much longer than that. UNIX allowed spaces right from it's beginning,
    > and I really doubt that it started there.


    unix treats spaces as a delimiter, which is why spaces have to be
    escaped or enclosed in quotes. since special action is required, it's
    not what users consider allowing spaces in file names. escaping spaces
    also makes the file name look ugly, especially in a url with %20
    everywhere, where the spaces are *removed*.

    mac os was one of the first, if not the first, to properly support file
    names with spaces (and other disallowed characters, such as quotes,
    asterisk, etc.) without any additional effort on the part of the user,
    back in 1984. name the file any way you want, just as any normal human
    would do, and it 'just works'. no need to escape or quote or any other
    special action.
    nospam, May 24, 2013
    #17
  18. PeterN

    Rikishi42 Guest

    On 2013-05-24, nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <>, Rikishi42
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    >> underscore for that. :)
    >> Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.

    >
    > there's absolutely nothing wrong with spaces in filenames, and hasn't
    > been for 30 years or so.


    Oh, you're a Mac user. Didn't know that.


    --
    When in doubt, use brute force.
    -- Ken Thompson
    Rikishi42, May 24, 2013
    #18
  19. PeterN

    Rikishi42 Guest

    On 2013-05-24, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 5/23/2013 6:15 PM, Rikishi42 wrote:
    >> On 2013-05-22, PeterN <> wrote:
    >>> Went to the beach before eating. It's that time of year.
    >>>
    >>> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97242118/feeding%20junior.jpg>
    >>>
    >>> As usual all comments are appreciated.

    >>
    >> First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did invent the
    >> underscore for that. :)
    >> Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.
    >>

    > I can understand your comment. When I first started putting spaces in
    > file names, I felt like I was eating sardines with peanut butter. But,
    > one gets used to that sort of thing.


    Of course, it's not really a big deal. Nothing I loose sleep over, yesterday
    was just one of those days... :)

    Of course, the usual suspects tend to go ballistic even at a silly remark as
    that. Should've know better. Huge waste of news volume ahead!


    >> OK, real comment: that is a very nice image. Very nice. Speaking as a
    >> complete amateur, I'm afraid, but one can admire without analysing.
    >>

    > Thank you for looking.
    > Feel free to post your images. We try to give constructive comments.
    > It's a great way to learn.


    I'm not there yet, lot's more time to spend on learning.
    But I actually stumbled in here mostly to check if there was something to
    pick up on picture file managment, in general. It might not really the best
    place, of course. It seems logical the emphasis is mostly on image
    content/composition/treatement rather than storing and archiving.

    But $DEITY, this place is Flamewar Central... :)


    --
    When in doubt, use brute force.
    -- Ken Thompson
    Rikishi42, May 24, 2013
    #19
  20. PeterN

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Floyd L. Davidson
    <> wrote:

    > >> >> > First comment: you shouldn't put a space in a filename. They did
    > >> >> > invent the underscore for that. :)
    > >> >> > Sorry, just an old itch, I'm more in IT than in photography.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> I can understand your comment. When I first started putting spaces in
    > >> >> file names, I felt like I was eating sardines with peanut butter. But,
    > >> >> one gets used to that sort of thing.
    > >> >
    > >> >nothing unusual about putting spaces in titles. people have been doing
    > >> >that for centuries.
    > >> >
    > >> >it's not a big deal for a computer to handle it, and they have been for
    > >> >roughly 30 years.
    > >>
    > >> Much longer than that. UNIX allowed spaces right from it's beginning,
    > >> and I really doubt that it started there.

    > >
    > >unix treats spaces as a delimiter, which is why spaces have to be
    > >escaped or enclosed in quotes. since special action is required, it's
    > >not what users consider allowing spaces in file names. escaping spaces
    > >also makes the file name look ugly, especially in a url with %20
    > >everywhere, where the spaces are *removed*.

    >
    > UNIX has *always* allowed spaces in filenames.


    except that users have to escape it to work.

    > It isn't correct to say that "unix" treats spaces as a
    > delimiter. The UNIX kernel (and UNIX filesystems) do
    > not.


    this isn't about the kernel.

    as far as the user is concerned, which is the only thing that matters
    when naming a file, spaces are delimiters in unix, which is why they
    have to be escaped.

    > >mac os was one of the first, if not the first, to properly support file
    > >names with spaces (and other disallowed characters, such as quotes,
    > >asterisk, etc.) without any additional effort on the part of the user,
    > >back in 1984. name the file any way you want, just as any normal human
    > >would do, and it 'just works'. no need to escape or quote or any other
    > >special action.

    >
    > The UNIX kernel and the various UNIX filesystems have
    > *never* disallowed characters such as quotes and spaces.
    > The only two characters that are (and always were)
    > disallowed are a NUL character and the backslash.


    actually it's forward slash for unix. windows uses backslash and macs
    use colons. null is also valid on a mac (not sure on windows, probably
    isn't).

    > You are confusing various command line shells with UNIX
    > itself. That is a common confusion and can result in
    > various other programs generating filenames that shell
    > users then do not immediately understand how to deal
    > with when using a shell command line.


    there's no confusion.

    users interact with shells and programs. they do not interact with the
    kernel directly.

    users the ones who decide on what to name a file. users care that they
    get the results they expect, not what goes on under the hood. if they
    type a space in a filename and something unexpected happens, then as
    far as they're concerned, spaces don't work.

    meanwhile, a file name with a space on mac or windows 'just works.'
    nothing special need be done. it's the way it should have been all
    along.

    > (And of course
    > the Mac was not different, but discouraged use of a
    > command line shell.)


    not only did the mac discourage the command line, but there wasn't one
    at all, nor was it needed. it was a big step forward in how we interact
    with computers.
    nospam, May 24, 2013
    #20
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