must I surrender SSN to sell photos?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by peter, May 1, 2005.

  1. peter

    peter Guest

    When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
     
    peter, May 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. peter

    Marvin Guest

    peter wrote:
    > When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    > my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >


    Never give your SSN to an unknown. Thye don't need it unless thta have to report your
    earnings to IRS, which I doubt.
     
    Marvin, May 1, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    > When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    > my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?


    Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone number."

    W e l l , o k . . . . .

    It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."
     
    Allodoxaphobia, May 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Allodoxaphobia wrote:
    > On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >
    >>When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    >>my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?

    >
    >
    > Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    > paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone number."
    >
    > W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >
    > It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."



    Ah, but I am sure SSN's, like Canadian SIN's have a check digit. So you
    can't "make one up" successfully unless you know the checking algorithm.




    --

    The News Guy(Mike) - Seinfeld Lists
    http://wave.prohosting.com/tnguym

    LOST Sawyer's Nicknames:
    http://tinyurl.com/dp8nb
     
    TheNewsGuy(Mike), May 1, 2005
    #4
  5. peter

    Mxsmanic Guest

    peter writes:

    > When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    > my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?


    Whenever you receive compensation from a U.S. entity for something like
    photographs, the entity must report its payments to the IRS.
    Technically, they are not required to provide your SSN, nor are you
    required to provide it, but they usually insist on having it to simplify
    reporting (the IRS is supposed to be able to find you even without an
    SSN, but most companies don't know that).

    If you're not American and you reside outside the U.S., you don't need
    to provide anything at all; but again, most companies don't know that.

    The advantage of providing your SSN is that any employee of the company
    to which you provide it can steal your identity.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, May 1, 2005
    #5
  6. peter

    Mxsmanic Guest

    TheNewsGuy(Mike) writes:

    > Ah, but I am sure SSN's, like Canadian SIN's have a check digit. So you
    > can't "make one up" successfully unless you know the checking algorithm.


    It's trivially easy to come up with valid American SSNs.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, May 1, 2005
    #6
  7. peter

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "TheNewsGuy(Mike)" <> writes:
    > Ah, but I am sure SSN's, like Canadian SIN's have a check digit. So
    > you can't "make one up" successfully unless you know the checking
    > algorithm.


    Actually no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Number#Valid_SSNs

    Of course, the lack of a check digit makes things even worse. If you
    make up an SSN, there's a good chance it will be a valid one that
    belongs to someone else, who will start getting mysterious income
    reported to the IRS. SSN's are 9 digits (1 billion possible) and
    every American is issued one basically at birth. There are about 250
    million living Americans and, hmm, I don't know, maybe half that many
    dead Americans who had SSN's assigned to them during their lifetimes
    (SSN's started in the 1930's). I don't think SSN's are re-used after
    the person dies. So close to half of the space of possible SSN's have
    already been assigned. Not to worry. Insead of SSN's, they will
    probably start tattooing 2-dimensional bar codes or implanting RFID
    chips in us soon.
     
    Paul Rubin, May 1, 2005
    #7
  8. peter

    Mark² Guest

    "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >> When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me
    >> for
    >> my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?

    >
    > Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    > paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone number."
    >
    > W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >
    > It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."


    Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.

    No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in unless
    you are placing an order for shipment or services.
     
    Mark², May 1, 2005
    #8
  9. On 01 May 2005 12:05:00 -0700, Paul Rubin
    <http://> wrote:

    >"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" <> writes:
    >> Ah, but I am sure SSN's, like Canadian SIN's have a check digit. So
    >> you can't "make one up" successfully unless you know the checking
    >> algorithm.

    >
    >Actually no:
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Number#Valid_SSNs
    >
    >Of course, the lack of a check digit makes things even worse. If you
    >make up an SSN, there's a good chance it will be a valid one that
    >belongs to someone else, who will start getting mysterious income
    >reported to the IRS. SSN's are 9 digits (1 billion possible) and
    >every American is issued one basically at birth. There are about 250
    >million living Americans and, hmm, I don't know, maybe half that many
    >dead Americans who had SSN's assigned to them during their lifetimes
    >(SSN's started in the 1930's). I don't think SSN's are re-used after
    >the person dies. So close to half of the space of possible SSN's have
    >already been assigned. Not to worry. Insead of SSN's, they will
    >probably start tattooing 2-dimensional bar codes or implanting RFID
    >chips in us soon.


    Why not just find a dead person's SSN and use it? I doubt the IRS
    would dig the person up and hassle them...(on second thought..<g>)


    --
    Scott in Florida
     
    Scott in Florida, May 1, 2005
    #9
  10. peter

    ASAAR Guest

    On 01 May 2005 12:05:00 -0700, Paul Rubin
    <http://> wrote:

    > Of course, the lack of a check digit makes things even worse. If you
    > make up an SSN, there's a good chance it will be a valid one that
    > belongs to someone else, who will start getting mysterious income
    > reported to the IRS. SSN's are 9 digits (1 billion possible) and
    > every American is issued one basically at birth. There are about 250
    > million living Americans and, hmm, I don't know, maybe half that many
    > dead Americans who had SSN's assigned to them during their lifetimes
    > (SSN's started in the 1930's). I don't think SSN's are re-used after
    > the person dies. So close to half of the space of possible SSN's have
    > already been assigned.


    Most aren't reused, but a few have been. I don't remember all of
    the details about this or why they might have been reissued. Many
    years ago I worked on a large "human resources" program sold by an
    insurance company to other very large businesses, and it had to keep
    track of SS numbers, so most of us (the programmers) tried to learn
    as much about the numbers as we could. Part of the number is coded
    to indicate where it was issued. Anything else I've forgotten,
    which along with the Cobol that most of the program was written in,
    has been my goal. :)
     
    ASAAR, May 1, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:

    > "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    > >> When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me
    > >> for
    > >> my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?

    > >
    > > Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    > > paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone number."
    > >
    > > W e l l , o k . . . . .
    > >
    > > It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."

    >
    > Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >
    > No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in unless
    > you are placing an order for shipment or services.


    Not so. A phone number and driver's license number are required by the
    bank as insurance against fraud, so many businesses won't accept checks
    without them. If a check bounces and it has those two pieces of
    information, the bank will still honor the check, and (I assume) their
    insurance will cover it; if it doesn't, the business that accepted the
    check is out of luck. The driver's license number says, "Our clerk
    verified that the name on the check matches the photo of the person";
    the phone number says, "We have a way to contact the check-writer if the
    check bounces."

    At least, that's the way it was at my theater (and its bank) in Ann
    Arbor. Since businesses set their own check-acceptance policy, and
    there are no laws requiring them to do much of anything, some may want a
    phone number and some may not. Some that want a phone number may have
    employees who don't care very much whether they actually get a phone
    number or not.

    ----j7y

    --
    jere7my tho?rpe | "The land knows whom it sent out;
    (440) 775-1522 | In the place of human beings
    | Their ashes in urns
    http://www.livejournal.com/~jere7my | Come back to each man's house."
    --- Aeschylus, The Agamemnon
     
    jere7my tho?rpe, May 1, 2005
    #11
  12. peter

    Mark² Guest

    "jere7my tho?rpe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    > "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >> "Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >> >> When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked
    >> >> me
    >> >> for
    >> >> my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >> >
    >> > Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >> > paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone
    >> > number."
    >> >
    >> > W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >> >
    >> > It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."

    >>
    >> Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >>
    >> No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in
    >> unless
    >> you are placing an order for shipment or services.

    >
    > Not so. A phone number and driver's license number are required by the
    > bank as insurance against fraud, so many businesses won't accept checks
    > without them. If a check bounces and it has those two pieces of
    > information, the bank will still honor the check, and (I assume) their
    > insurance will cover it; if it doesn't, the business that accepted the
    > check is out of luck. The driver's license number says, "Our clerk
    > verified that the name on the check matches the photo of the person";
    > the phone number says, "We have a way to contact the check-writer if the
    > check bounces."
    >
    > At least, that's the way it was at my theater (and its bank) in Ann
    > Arbor. Since businesses set their own check-acceptance policy, and
    > there are no laws requiring them to do much of anything, some may want a
    > phone number and some may not. Some that want a phone number may have
    > employees who don't care very much whether they actually get a phone
    > number or not.


    It's a silly practice. If someone were presenting an invalid check...do you
    really think they would provide a valid phone number?

    Second thought: Who uses checks at stores any more?
    :)
     
    Mark², May 1, 2005
    #12
  13. peter

    Ron Hunter Guest

    peter wrote:
    > When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    > my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >
    >

    Well, if you plan to sell something, through them, it would seem they
    would need your SSN for reporting your income to IRS. You do plan to
    pay taxes on that income, right?


    --
    Ron Hunter
     
    Ron Hunter, May 1, 2005
    #13
  14. peter

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Ron Hunter <> writes:
    > Well, if you plan to sell something, through them, it would seem they
    > would need your SSN for reporting your income to IRS. You do plan to
    > pay taxes on that income, right?


    Ebay never asked for my SSN.
     
    Paul Rubin, May 1, 2005
    #14
  15. peter

    james Guest

    In article <XH8de.18368$lZ.13880@trnddc04>, peter <> wrote:


    >When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me for
    >my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?



    How would they know it was your SSN and not one you made up? Since it's
    illegal for them to require it, and since they have no business trying
    to correlate the number you give with anything else, what's the point?
     
    james, May 1, 2005
    #15
  16. peter

    james Guest

    In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    Mark² <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >"Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >>> When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked me
    >>> for
    >>> my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?

    >>
    >> Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >> paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone number."
    >>
    >> W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >>
    >> It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."

    >
    >Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >
    >No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in unless
    >you are placing an order for shipment or services.
    >
    >


    Well, in this case, you're asking them to accept your check. They can
    ask you to dance on one foot while singing an aria from La Traviata if
    they want to.
     
    james, May 1, 2005
    #16
  17. peter

    Mark² Guest

    "james" <> wrote in message
    news:Ivbde.9303$_K.3266@fed1read03...
    > In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    > Mark² <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>"Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >>>> When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked
    >>>> me
    >>>> for
    >>>> my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >>>
    >>> Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >>> paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone
    >>> number."
    >>>
    >>> W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >>>
    >>> It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."

    >>
    >>Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >>
    >>No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in unless
    >>you are placing an order for shipment or services.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Well, in this case, you're asking them to accept your check. They can
    > ask you to dance on one foot while singing an aria from La Traviata if
    > they want to.


    I looked at the thread and can't find anything about a check.
    If that was in the original question, then I missed it.

    Many stores like to ask for phone numbers without regard to how you pay.
    This is always OK to skip.
    Checks usually include a phone number on the check already.
    Anyone who thinks a person submitting a bad check ISN'T going to also give a
    bad phone number is silly.
     
    Mark², May 1, 2005
    #17
  18. peter

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Mark² wrote:

    > "jere7my tho?rpe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    >>"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>>On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked
    >>>>>me
    >>>>>for
    >>>>>my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >>>>
    >>>>Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >>>>paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone
    >>>>number."
    >>>>
    >>>>W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >>>>
    >>>>It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."
    >>>
    >>>Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >>>
    >>>No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in
    >>>unless
    >>>you are placing an order for shipment or services.

    >>
    >>Not so. A phone number and driver's license number are required by the
    >>bank as insurance against fraud, so many businesses won't accept checks
    >>without them. If a check bounces and it has those two pieces of
    >>information, the bank will still honor the check, and (I assume) their
    >>insurance will cover it; if it doesn't, the business that accepted the
    >>check is out of luck. The driver's license number says, "Our clerk
    >>verified that the name on the check matches the photo of the person";
    >>the phone number says, "We have a way to contact the check-writer if the
    >>check bounces."
    >>
    >>At least, that's the way it was at my theater (and its bank) in Ann
    >>Arbor. Since businesses set their own check-acceptance policy, and
    >>there are no laws requiring them to do much of anything, some may want a
    >>phone number and some may not. Some that want a phone number may have
    >>employees who don't care very much whether they actually get a phone
    >>number or not.

    >
    >
    > It's a silly practice. If someone were presenting an invalid check...do you
    > really think they would provide a valid phone number?
    >
    > Second thought: Who uses checks at stores any more?
    > :)


    Hi...

    Dunno if it adds to the thread or not, but shopped at
    Walmart (in Canada)on Friday... paid cash... cashier
    asked me for the first three digits of my postal code.

    Told her I forgot... only lived in the same house for 30
    years :)

    Ken
     
    Ken Weitzel, May 1, 2005
    #18
  19. peter

    Mark² Guest

    "Ken Weitzel" <> wrote in message
    news:eFbde.1185989$8l.217415@pd7tw1no...
    >
    >
    > Mark² wrote:
    >
    >> "jere7my tho?rpe" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    >>>"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >>>>news:...
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked
    >>>>>>me
    >>>>>>for
    >>>>>>my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >>>>>paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone
    >>>>>number."
    >>>>>
    >>>>>W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >>>>>
    >>>>>It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."
    >>>>
    >>>>Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >>>>
    >>>>No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in
    >>>>unless
    >>>>you are placing an order for shipment or services.
    >>>
    >>>Not so. A phone number and driver's license number are required by the
    >>>bank as insurance against fraud, so many businesses won't accept checks
    >>>without them. If a check bounces and it has those two pieces of
    >>>information, the bank will still honor the check, and (I assume) their
    >>>insurance will cover it; if it doesn't, the business that accepted the
    >>>check is out of luck. The driver's license number says, "Our clerk
    >>>verified that the name on the check matches the photo of the person";
    >>>the phone number says, "We have a way to contact the check-writer if the
    >>>check bounces."
    >>>
    >>>At least, that's the way it was at my theater (and its bank) in Ann
    >>>Arbor. Since businesses set their own check-acceptance policy, and
    >>>there are no laws requiring them to do much of anything, some may want a
    >>>phone number and some may not. Some that want a phone number may have
    >>>employees who don't care very much whether they actually get a phone
    >>>number or not.

    >>
    >>
    >> It's a silly practice. If someone were presenting an invalid check...do
    >> you really think they would provide a valid phone number?
    >>
    >> Second thought: Who uses checks at stores any more?
    >> :)

    >
    > Hi...
    >
    > Dunno if it adds to the thread or not, but shopped at
    > Walmart (in Canada)on Friday... paid cash... cashier
    > asked me for the first three digits of my postal code.
    >
    > Told her I forgot... only lived in the same house for 30
    > years :)


    That is really the kind of exchange I was referring to.
    Many stores do this in order to keep track of what market they are serving.
    When they ask for your phone number, they are doing any number of things
    with it...most of which you don't want.
     
    Mark², May 1, 2005
    #19
  20. peter

    Mark² Guest

    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:MKbde.358$tp.330@fed1read04...
    >
    > "Ken Weitzel" <> wrote in message
    > news:eFbde.1185989$8l.217415@pd7tw1no...
    >>
    >>
    >> Mark² wrote:
    >>
    >>> "jere7my tho?rpe" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>
    >>>>In article <0P9de.346$tp.215@fed1read04>,
    >>>>"Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>"Allodoxaphobia" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>On Sun, 01 May 2005 17:52:55 GMT, peter wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>When I tried to set up my web album on fotki to sell prints, it asked
    >>>>>>>me
    >>>>>>>for
    >>>>>>>my SSN. Does this happen on all web albums or just fotki?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Do what I do in a similar situation: I'm in the grocery store, and
    >>>>>>paying by check (cheque). The clerk asks me for ".. a telephone
    >>>>>>number."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>W e l l , o k . . . . .
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>It ain't _that_ hard to come up with ".. a telephone number."
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Actually, all you need to say is, "skip it" and they will.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>No store needs your phone number for anything you are interested in
    >>>>>unless
    >>>>>you are placing an order for shipment or services.
    >>>>
    >>>>Not so. A phone number and driver's license number are required by the
    >>>>bank as insurance against fraud, so many businesses won't accept checks
    >>>>without them. If a check bounces and it has those two pieces of
    >>>>information, the bank will still honor the check, and (I assume) their
    >>>>insurance will cover it; if it doesn't, the business that accepted the
    >>>>check is out of luck. The driver's license number says, "Our clerk
    >>>>verified that the name on the check matches the photo of the person";
    >>>>the phone number says, "We have a way to contact the check-writer if the
    >>>>check bounces."
    >>>>
    >>>>At least, that's the way it was at my theater (and its bank) in Ann
    >>>>Arbor. Since businesses set their own check-acceptance policy, and
    >>>>there are no laws requiring them to do much of anything, some may want a
    >>>>phone number and some may not. Some that want a phone number may have
    >>>>employees who don't care very much whether they actually get a phone
    >>>>number or not.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It's a silly practice. If someone were presenting an invalid check...do
    >>> you really think they would provide a valid phone number?
    >>>
    >>> Second thought: Who uses checks at stores any more?
    >>> :)

    >>
    >> Hi...
    >>
    >> Dunno if it adds to the thread or not, but shopped at
    >> Walmart (in Canada)on Friday... paid cash... cashier
    >> asked me for the first three digits of my postal code.
    >>
    >> Told her I forgot... only lived in the same house for 30
    >> years :)

    >
    > That is really the kind of exchange I was referring to.
    > Many stores do this in order to keep track of what market they are
    > serving.
    > When they ask for your phone number, they are doing any number of things
    > with it...most of which you don't want.


    The other response that works when they ask for your phone number is, "And
    what's YOURS?"
    :)
     
    Mark², May 1, 2005
    #20
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