Mughal e Azam -colorized version - English subtitles

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by habshi, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. habshi

    habshi Guest

    Magnificient . What other film industry can produce a forty
    year old 3 hr movie where you are so entranced that you dont want it
    to finish , even from the start?
    The colors really bring the movie alive. They still have the
    costumes so they knew what most of the colors were and it really is
    amazing how the court of the emperor , the women and their jewellery
    and costumes -how captivating they all are , if you dont get to see it
    on the big screen , then watch it via projector or big plasma set.
    Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubhala are the real stars and the
    music is out of this world. Really learnt a lot of urdu and persian
    words from reading the subtitles . Perhaps the most outstanding part
    of the movie is the background music . This is the way it should be.
     
    habshi, Jul 12, 2005
    #1
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  2. habshi

    Guest

    We all know naming dilip kumar and all muslim technicians as real stars
    would give you constipation.
     
    , Jul 12, 2005
    #2
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  3. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/12/05 4:35 AM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:

    > Magnificient . What other film industry can produce a forty
    > year old 3 hr movie where you are so entranced that you dont want it
    > to finish , even from the start?
    > The colors really bring the movie alive. They still have the
    > costumes so they knew what most of the colors were and it really is
    > amazing how the court of the emperor , the women and their jewellery
    > and costumes -how captivating they all are , if you dont get to see it
    > on the big screen , then watch it via projector or big plasma set.
    > Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubhala are the real stars and the
    > music is out of this world.


    Though Prithviraj was indeed incomparable, I think most of
    the characters in the film were superb in there own sphere.

    Dilip Kumar himself has portrayed the scenes of
    confrontation with his dad quite beautifully in
    the film. The giant-ness of akbar was evident all
    over and viewers might be thinking that his persona
    will easily tame Salim into submission, but Salim
    was well aware of his own worth and stood up
    against Akbar in equal strength. He didn't
    even offend Akbar.

    if Salim did not have strength to face Akbar, the movie
    would have become a stupidity.

    Hence, I would say that when naming the stars of the
    film, Dilip Kumar should have been mentioned before
    Madhubala.

    Actually, I felt that Madhubala's countering Akbar dialogue
    by dialogue was a bad script for this movie. She was a
    two-bit kaneez and she had no right to reply to Akbar that
    "qaidakhaane ke andhere kaneez kii aarazuon se kam the"
    "tamannaaye aur ba.dh jaayengii", etc.

    But of course, that was madhubala's fault that she was given
    such dialogues.

    > Really learnt a lot of urdu and persian
    > words from reading the subtitles . Perhaps the most outstanding part
    > of the movie is the background music . This is the way it should be.


    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 12, 2005
    #3
  4. habshi

    Mirza Ghalib Guest

    You can have him.
     
    Mirza Ghalib, Jul 12, 2005
    #4
  5. habshi

    Guest

    everyone want s to go to bollywood.... bollywood
     
    , Jul 12, 2005
    #5
  6. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/12/05 5:46 AM India Time, _ wrote:

    > We all know naming dilip kumar and all muslim technicians as real stars
    > would give you constipation.
    >


    could you please quote at least some minimum part of what
    you are replying to.

    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 12, 2005
    #6
  7. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/12/05 11:55 AM India Time, _Mirza Ghalib_ wrote:

    > You can have him.
    >

    could you please quote at least some minimum part of what
    you are replying to.

    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 12, 2005
    #7
  8. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/12/05 12:09 PM India Time, _ wrote:

    > everyone want s to go to bollywood.... bollywood
    >

    could you please quote at least some minimum part of what
    you are replying to.

    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 12, 2005
    #8
  9. habshi

    harmony Guest

    no thanks, i am trying to unlearn the little urdu i know.
    an article in american journal of medicine says that urdu leads to
    terrorism.


    "habshi" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Magnificient . What other film industry can produce a forty
    > year old 3 hr movie where you are so entranced that you dont want it
    > to finish , even from the start?
    > The colors really bring the movie alive. They still have the
    > costumes so they knew what most of the colors were and it really is
    > amazing how the court of the emperor , the women and their jewellery
    > and costumes -how captivating they all are , if you dont get to see it
    > on the big screen , then watch it via projector or big plasma set.
    > Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubhala are the real stars and the
    > music is out of this world. Really learnt a lot of urdu and persian
    > words from reading the subtitles . Perhaps the most outstanding part
    > of the movie is the background music . This is the way it should be.
     
    harmony, Jul 12, 2005
    #9
  10. habshi

    habshi Guest

    On 11 Jul 2005 17:16:27 -0700, wrote:

    >We all know naming dilip kumar and all muslim technicians as real stars

    would give you constipation.<

    Madhbhala was a Muslim until she married a Hindu .
    The guy who plays Durjan the Rajput hero was a Muslim and is superb.
    Dilip Kumar however does not fit the role of Jahangir or Salim . I
    think Sunil Dutt would have been better , and there is no chemistry
    between him and Madhubhala.
    One thing was the sculptures shown . Lets immortalize our
    present day heroes in these stone tableaux stories - women like Indira
    Gandhi , Nehru.
    All those extras in the war scenes! Its not computer generated
    stuff so its all the more impressive .
     
    habshi, Jul 12, 2005
    #10
  11. habshi

    habshi Guest

    One thing worth thinking about is that Islam does NOT permit
    music , so all these songs and dances shown in movies are entirely due
    to Hindu influences as shown on the ancient Hindu temple walls.
    Although Akbar was a good ruler and detested Islam and even
    tried to destroy it by creating his own religion - deen e elahi - his
    grandson Aurangzeb banned music and terrorised Hindus and converted
    them to Islam by force and all the Pakistani Muslims are muslim and
    suffering because of him.
    Of course Indian Muslims are superb in music but if you
    explore their ancestery they were all Hindu descendants

    excerpts
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    Ban on screening of Indian films to continue
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    Plan for "religious police" fuels Pakistani debate
    Reuters India, India - 11 Jul 2005
    .... has taken several steps reminiscent of Taliban rule including a
    ban on music on public ... and what is wrong, according to its
    interpretation of Islam, is a
    The council argues that it is "sacrilegious" to promote a festival
    where men and women mix, especially in a conservative town like
    Kalkilya, where the vast majority of women wear the traditional head
    scarf.

    The festival, an annual event suspended during the intifada, includes
    performances of traditional Palestinian music and dance.
    Some of Kalkilya's 35,000 residents now fret that they created a
    monster by unseating Fatah, formerly the largest faction, from local
    government. Hamas swept the 15-seat municipal council in the May 5
    elections on a political platform that focused on bureaucratic reform
    of the municipality.

    "If they canceled the festival for religious values let us talk about
    the other breaches of Islam in town," says Ja'edi, his head decidedly
    averted from Nancy Ajram's sultry gaze. "What about usury at Kalkilya
    banks? What about mixed parties at banquet halls, or at people's
    homes?
    "They should not interfere with people's liberties," continues the
    mustachioed Ja'edi who earned a BA in Islamic religious law. Ja'edi
    wants the festival in Kalkilya, with its dancers and poets, not only
    for the cultural value but "because it will be good for business."

    The murmurs of discontent by Ja'edi and civil society leaders signal
    Hamas's first challenge since it swept it to power in 30 of 84
    municipalities in the West Bank and Gaza. The cancellation of the
    festival marks the first collision between its "do-good" reputation
    and its conservative political-religious agenda.
     
    habshi, Jul 13, 2005
    #11
  12. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/13/05 4:11 AM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:

    > On 11 Jul 2005 17:16:27 -0700, wrote:
    >
    >
    >>We all know naming dilip kumar and all muslim technicians as real stars

    >
    > would give you constipation.<
    >
    > Madhbhala was a Muslim until she married a Hindu .
    > The guy who plays Durjan the Rajput hero was a Muslim and is superb.


    He was Ajit. Is/ Was he muslim? I was not aware of that.

    > Dilip Kumar however does not fit the role of Jahangir or Salim . I
    > think Sunil Dutt would have been better , and there is no chemistry
    > between him and Madhubhala.
    > One thing was the sculptures shown . Lets immortalize our
    > present day heroes in these stone tableaux stories - women like Indira
    > Gandhi , Nehru.
    > All those extras in the war scenes! Its not computer generated
    > stuff so its all the more impressive .
    >
    >


    And where did you find Jurasic Park less impressive?


    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 13, 2005
    #12
  13. habshi

    habshi Guest

    Encyclopedia Britannica,AND OTHER Encyclopedias written of SLAUGHTERED
    30,000 CAPTIVE HINDU PEASANTS
    History of Akbar

    Akbar stands tall among the kings who ruled India. He was the greatest
    of the Moguls, the Muslim dynasty that dominated India between the
    early 16th and 18th centuries.

    Akbar was exposed to the battles and powers of rule from a young age.
    Akbar inherited the throne, after the sudden death of his father king
    Humayun, at the age of 13, in 1556. In 1579 he abolished the Jizya, a
    tax imposed on all but the poorest non-Muslims. This was the most
    notable in a series of measures to recruit the Hindu majority and
    others to the cause of unifying and expanding his empire. He defeated
    an impregnable Hindu fortress in Rajasthan and went on to marry the
    Rajput princess Padmini, who was permitted to conduct Hindu rites in
    the harem.

    Akbar's religious tolerance strengthened his empire and earns him his
    special place in history. He is credited with innovations in textiles
    and artillery alike. Himself an illiterate man, perhaps because of
    dyslexia, he loved learning and disputation. His administrative and
    fiscal innovations underpinned it for a century after his death. He
    patronized such scholars as Birbal, Abul Fazl and Tansen. He was
    subject to bouts of melancholy and what were probably epileptic fits
    early in life. He saw these as spiritual experiences; and perhaps they
    gave his curiosity a religious twist.

    As his reign progressed Akbar moved ever further from Islamic
    orthodoxy. He built a capital, Fatehpur Sikri, around the tomb of a
    Sufi (Islamic mystic) saint who had prophesied the birth of his heir.
    Later he took to inviting clerics from various religions, including
    Portuguese Jesuits from Goa, to debate their faiths.

    Eventually, Akbar came up with his own ``religion of God'', more a
    fraternal order, headed by himself, than a religion, based on a creed
    of harmony among peoples and a practice that involved making disciples
    of his leading nobles. Unsurprisingly, Muslim clerics saw this as
    blasphemy. Eventually, it became official policy to discourage, if not
    to prohibit, Islamic forms of prayer. Akbar paid the price in an
    abortive rebellion by his son, claiming to be a defender of the faith.
    Akbar softened towards Islam thereafter, and is thought to have died,
    in 1605, a Muslim, not an apostate.

    His descendants, most notably, the deeply bigoted great-grandson
    Aurangzeb overturned the religious tolerance Akbar had established for
    the Mogul Government. Aurangjeb tore down Hindu temples and revived
    the
    Jijya--and a Hindu consciousness that after his death was to help pull
    the Mogul empire apart, weaken India, and let in the British.

    ABSTRACT


    Akbar is considered as the great Mughal emperor who put the Mughal
    empire on a firm and stable footing, with a reliable revenue system
    and
    with expansion of its borders deeper into Indian heartland. There is a
    belief prevalent in the present day India that Akbar's rule was
    secular
    and tolerant of the native Hindu faith. This belief is fostered by the
    Indian history texts, Hindi movies like Mughal-e-Azam, a TV serial on
    Doordarshan and the fictional tales of Akbar and his Hindu court
    jester
    Birbal. Although Akbar did abolish two obnoxious taxes on Hindus
    namely
    the pilgrimage tax in 1563 CE and Jizya (A tax stipulated in the Koran
    to be paid by Zimmis or unbelievers) in 1564 CE, his rule was better
    compared ONLY to the other Mughal and Turko-Afgani rules. This article
    illustrates this with two specific historical events. First, Akbar
    like
    all Mughal rulers had the holy Muslim title of GHAZI (SLAYER OF KAFFIR
    - infidel). Like Timur Lane and Nader Shah, AKBAR HAD A VICTORY TOWER
    ERECTED WITH THE HEADS OF THE CAPTURED/ SURRENDERED ARMY OF HEMU after
    the second battle of Panipat. Later, AKBAR AGAIN SLAUGHTERED MORE THAN
    30,000 UNARMED CAPTIVE HINDU PEASANTS AFTER THE FALL OF CHITOD ON
    FEBRUARY 24, 1568.

    THE MUGHAL ANCESTRY


    Akbar's grandfather Babar founded the Mughal dynasty. Babar was a
    direct descendent of Timur Lane from his father's Barlas Turk side and
    of Chengiz Khan the Mongol from his mother's side. The name Mongol had
    become synonymous with barbarian by the 16 th century CE, hence Babar
    was proud of his ancestry from Timur, whose descendents were regarded
    as 'cultured Turks'. In a twist of poetic justice, the dynasty founded
    by Babar became known through out the world as Mughal - an adaptation
    of Mughul, the Persian word for 'Mongol'(1). In Marathi also Mughals
    are referred to as 'Mongal' which is close to Mongol.

    Babar's son Humayun was defeated by Sher Shah Sur, an Afgan at the
    battle of Chausa on 26 June 1539. But Humayun later defeated Sikandar
    Shah Sur in 1555 to regain Delhi.

    PSECOND BATTLE OF PANIPAT AND HOW AKBAR BECAME GHAZI


    On 24 th January 1556 CE Mughal ruler Humayun slipped while climbing
    down the steps of his library and fell to his death. The heir to the
    Mughal throne, 13 year old Akbar was then campaigning in Punjab with
    his chief minister Bairam Khan. On February 14, 1556, in a garden at
    Kalanaur, Akbar was enthroned as emperor. The other rivals for the
    throne of Delhi were the three Afgan princes of Sher Shah. However the
    main threat to Akbar's future came not from the Afgan princes but from
    a Hindu. Hemu, the Hindu chief minister of Afgan prince Adil Shah led
    a
    surprise attack on Delhi in October 1556 . The Mughal forces under its
    governor Tardi Beg Khan panicked and went into a sudden ignominious
    flight. This was Hemu's twenty second consecutive victory in
    successive
    battles. After the capture of Delhi, Hemu set up himself as an
    independent ruler under the Hindu title of 'Raja Vikramaditya'. At
    this
    juncture against the advice of most nobles, Akbar and Bairam Khan took
    a courageous decision, to press forward against Hemu's undoubtedly
    superior forces. On November 5, 1556 the Mughul forces met the army of
    Hemu at Panipat.

    In this second battle of Panipat, the Mughals were saved by a lucky
    accident after a hard fight which looked more than likely to go
    against
    them. An arrow hit Hemu in the eye and although it did not kill him it
    had pierced the cerebral cavity enough to make him unconscious. In any
    battle of this period the death of the leader meant an end of the
    fight, and the sight of Hemu slumped in the howdah of his famous
    elephant Hawai was enough to make his army turn tail. Shah Quli Khan
    captured the Hawai elephant with its prize occupant, and took it
    directly to Akbar. Hemu was brought unconscious before Akbar and
    Bairam. Bairam pleaded Akbar to perform the holy duty of slaying the
    infidel and earn the Islamic holy title of 'Ghazi'. Among much
    self-congratulation AKBAR THEN SEVERED THE HEAD OF UNCONSCIOUS HEMU
    WITH HIS SABER (2,3,4). Some historians claim that Akbar did not kill
    Hemu himself, but just touched the infidel's head with his sword and
    his associates finished the gory 'holy' work. However the latter
    version seems inconsistent with the events that followed. After the
    battle Hemu's head was sent to kabul as a sign of victory to the
    ladies
    of Humayun's harem, and Hemu's torso was sent to Delhi for exposure on
    a gibbet. Iskandar Khan chased the Hemu's fleeing army and captured
    1500 elephants and a large contingent. THERE WAS A GREAT SLAUGHTER OF
    THOSE WHO WERE CAPTURED and IN KEEPING WITH THE CUSTOM OF HIS
    ANCESTORS
    TIMUR LANE AND CHENGIZ KHAN, AKBAR HAD A VICTORY PILLAR BUILT WITH
    THEIR HEADS. Peter Mundy, an Englishman travelling Mughal empire some
    75 years later (during Jahangir and Shah Jahan's rein), found such
    towers were still being built. (Reference 2 gives pictures of a sketch
    by Peter Mundy, and Mughal painting of the tower of heads during
    Akbar's reign). Hemu's wife escaped from Delhi with the treasure and
    Pir Mohammad Khan's troops chased her caravan without success. HEMU'S
    AGED FATHER WAS CAPTURED AND ON REFUSING TO ACCEPT ISLAM, WAS EXECUTED
    (3). This is the 'glorious' history of Akbar's victory at the battle
    of
    Panipat.

    FALL OF CHITOD AND SLAUGHTER OF 30,000 CAPTIVE HINDU PEASANTS


    Despite nearly five centuries of Muslim occupation of India, Rajasthan
    in 1567 CE was still almost entirely Hindu. Akbar infiltrated the area
    by marrying into Rajasthan's ruling houses and by steadily capturing
    various forts on the eastern fringe of Rajputana. But the senior house
    of Rajasthan, Rana of Mewar proudly refused any alliance with Mughals.
    Akbar's army started a campaign for Chitod in 1567. Rana of Mewar,
    Uday
    Singh left his capital, the great fort of Chitod to be defended by
    8,000 Rajputs under an excellent commander, Jai Mal, and took himself
    and his family to the safety of the hills. Akbar arrived on October
    24,
    1567 and laid a siege of Chitod. Akbar's huge army's camp stretched
    for
    almost ten miles . Akbar planned two methods of assault -mining and
    building a 'sabat', a structure which provides the invading army a
    cover of a high wall as it progresses 'infinitely slowly' towards the
    fort wall and tightens the noose around the fort. The mining proved
    disastrous since an explosion of a mistimed second mine claimed
    Akbar's
    nearly 200 men including some leading nobles. As the noose of 'sabat'
    tightened, Akbar forces lost nearly 200 men a day to musket fire from
    the fort. Almost four months after the siege, on February 23, 1567, a
    musket shot fired from the Mughal army killed Jai Mal. Some
    chroniclers
    claim that this shot was fired by Akbar himself. With the death of
    their leader Jai Mal, the Rajputs for a while lost heart. That night
    flames leapt to the sky as THOUSANDS OF RAJPUT WOMEN PERFORMED JAUHAR
    (act of self-immolation, the term is a corruption of Jay Har - meaning
    Hail Shiva). They preferred jumping into a roaring fire, to being
    captured by Mughal Akbar. Later events do lend credit to their astute
    judgement. This was the THIRD JAUHAR IN THE HISTORY OF CHITOD.

    Next day the Rajputs under a new young leader Patta Singh donned on
    the
    saffron robes - Kesariya, in preparation for a fight to death, flung
    open the gates of the fort and charged on to the Mughal army. Patta
    Singh, his mother and his wife duly died in the ensuing battle as did
    many Rajput warriors. Later, the victorious Mughal army entered the
    fort of Chitod. At the time there were 40,000 Hindu peasants and
    artisans residing on the fort besides the Rajput army. AKBAR THEN
    ORDERED A MASSACRE OF ALL THE CAPTURED UNARMED 40,000 HINDUS, some
    artisans indeed were spared and taken away but THE SLAIN AMOUNTED TO
    AT
    LEAST 30,000 (5,6,7,8,9) Akbar was particularly keen to avenge himself
    on the thousand musketeers who had done much damage to his troops, but
    they escaped by the boldest of the tricks. Binding their own women and
    children, and shoving them roughly along like new captives, the Rajput
    musketeers successfully passed themselves off as a detachment of the
    victorious Mughals and so made their way out of the fort (5,6,7,8,9).

    The MASSACRE OF 30,000 CAPTIVE HINDUS AT CHITOD BY AKBAR has left an
    indelible blot on his name. No such horrors were perpetrated by even
    the brutal Ala-ud-din Khilji who had captured the fort in 1303 CE.
    Abul
    Fazl, Akbar's court chronicler is at pains in trying to justify this
    slaughter. In the later period of his rule, Akbar later had statues of
    Patta and Jai Mal, riding on elephants, installed at the gate of his
    imperial palace at Agra. Although probably intended as a compliment
    for
    their heroism, it was open to misconstruction since in the earlier
    history Jai Chand had placed a similar statue of Prithvi Raj Chauhan
    at
    the gate of his palace (as a Dwarpal) at the Swayamvar of his daughter
    Sanyogita.

    Sir Thomas Roe, an Englishman who visited Chitod some fifty years
    later, found the fort deserted. In fact, it remained a firm tenet of
    Mughal policy throughout the next century that fortifications of
    Chitod, which till then was the capital of the then strongest Hindu
    Rana, should remain unrepaired, perhaps as a lesson to Hindus who
    dared
    to take on the Mughals (5).

    Rana Pratap Singh of Mewar, son of Rana Uday Singh, kept the Rajput
    resistance to Akbar alive and tried to reclaim the glory of Chitod.

    AKBAR AND RELIGION


    In the later part of his rule Akbar founded a new religion Din-e-Ilahi
    in which he vaguely tried to combine practices of Islam and Hinduism.
    He observed Muslim, Hindu and Parsee festivals. He had Jesuit priests
    in his courts. However, this founder of Din-e-Ilahi was practically
    illiterate. Till the end of his rule only seventeen nobles yielded to
    Akbar's wishes (and pressure) and converted to his new religion, among
    whom Raja Birbal was one. None of Akbar's children adopted his
    religion. To top it all, Jahangir, Akbar's son from his Hindu wife
    Jodhabai, later killed a Kaffir (Hindu infidel) and gained the holy
    Islamic title of Ghazi. It is indeed true that Akbar drifted from
    orthodox Islamic practices and became more tolerant of other
    religions.
    However, more often Akbar used and twisted religious principles to his
    own advantage. Let us look at one such example.

    Akbar used marriage alliances with various royal houses as a way of
    expanding his empire. The political advantages of this steady stream
    of
    presentation of princesses were incalculable. In the end Akbar had
    more
    than 300 wives. The actual number of women in the harem was nearer to
    5,000. Many of these were older women, but there were also young
    servant girls, or Amazons of Russia or Abyssinia as armed guards, all
    with the status only of slaves. It was these who, if so required, were
    the emperor's concubines. The three hundred were technically wives,
    even though the Koran limits the number to four. Akbar wanted
    religious
    sanction of all these 300 wives. Now as per the Persian Shia
    interpretation of Muslim scriptures (and also by the present day
    'Mohammedan Act of India'! ) a Muslim can have a 'Mutta' marriage with
    a free women of OTHER religion. A 'Mutta' marraige involves no
    ceremony
    , but is a private pact between a man and a woman for, officially, 'a
    limited period time (as short as one night)' agreed between them. As
    per Shia interpretation, 'Mutta' constituted a legal Muslim marriage.
    Akbar used 'Mutta' principle to justify his300 wives. But the Sunni
    Ulemma (Islamic scholars) from his courtdisagreed. The The arguments
    between Akbar and Ulemma raged back andforth, until -completing the
    parallel with Henry VIII- Akbar dismissed the Kazi, the highest
    religious officer from his court, aSunni, and replaced him with a Shia
    who did agree with him! (10)

    Later, Akbar had effrontery to decree that 'it was best for ordinary
    men to to have only one wife'! (10)

    DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION


    Akbar killed an unconscious Hemu (a Hindu) to become a 'Ghazi' at the
    second battle of Panipat, he later ordered slaughter of all the
    captives from Hemu's army and had a victory tower built with their
    heads. Similarly, Akbar later on ordered a massacre of 30,000 plus
    unarmed captive Hindu peasants after the fall of Chitod on February
    24,
    1568. Are these the characteristics of a truly 'secular' and
    'tolerant'
    emperor ? These events reveal Akbar's true nature during early part of
    his reign. Should Akbar be called 'Great' and 'Secular' only because
    he
    was a lesser despot than the rest of the Mughal emperors ? In the
    entire Indian history of thousands of years NOT A SINGLE HINDU KING
    EVER SLAUGHTERED THOUSANDS OF PRISONERS OF WAR. In fact the Hindu
    virtue of generosity to the surrendered (SharaNaagat Vatsal Bhav),
    came
    to haunt them later. Prithvi Raj Chauhan defeated Mohammed Ghori
    several times and generously let the loser free each time. This
    generosity of Pritviraj was paid back by Mohammed Ghori who after
    having finally defeated Prithvi Raj in 1193 CE, blinded him and
    carried
    him to Afganistan in chains where Prithvi Raj died an ignominious
    death. The Mughals were the descendents of brutal Mongol Chengiz Khan
    and the Turk Timur Lane. The above incidences clearly show that MUGHAL
    EMPERORS WERE FOREIGN AND NOT INDIAN, AND AKBAR BY HIS ACTIONS WAS NO
    EXCEPTION. Thus to call Akbar as 'The Great' is nothing but an insult
    to all civilized societies. This article also has shown Akbar's
    dubious
    use of religious principles.

    If we are to take example from the 20 th century, then even the Nazis
    did not kill 30,000 prisoners of war in cold blood during the second
    World War. However scores of Nazis were sentenced to death during the
    Nuremburg trials for their War Crimes against POWs.
     
    habshi, Jul 13, 2005
    #13
  14. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/12/05 4:35 AM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:

    > Magnificient . What other film industry can produce a forty
    > year old 3 hr movie where you are so entranced that you dont want it
    > to finish , even from the start?
    > The colors really bring the movie alive. They still have the
    > costumes so they knew what most of the colors were and it really is
    > amazing how the court of the emperor , the women and their jewellery
    > and costumes -how captivating they all are , if you dont get to see it
    > on the big screen , then watch it via projector or big plasma set.
    > Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubhala are the real stars and the
    > music is out of this world. Really learnt a lot of urdu and persian
    > words from reading the subtitles . Perhaps the most outstanding part
    > of the movie is the background music . This is the way it should be.


    I saw the DVD cover at a shop, and it reads that it had
    "deleted songs".

    If someone has viewed the contents of DVD, please share info
    about deleted songs it has.

    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 14, 2005
    #14
  15. habshi

    habshi Guest

    More proof that singing and dancing is unislamic and if Muslims want to keep enjoying them
    they have to convert back to paganism

    excerpt bbc.co.uk

    The law includes measures to ensure people respect calls to prayer and to discourage singing and
    dancing.

    The NWFP government says it was mandated to pass the law when elected.

    Under the new law, an Islamic watchdog will monitor the observance of Islamic values in public
    places in NWFP.

    The plan is reminiscent of the infamous Department of Vice and Virtue, set up by the Taleban regime
    in Afghanistan.

    The passage of the bill followed a heated debate between the ruling conservative six-party religious
    alliance Mutahida Majlis Amal (MMA) and the opposition.

    'People's mandate'

    Under the new law, the principal duty of the cleric, called "mohtasib" - one who holds other
    accountable - will be to ensure people respect the call to prayers, pray on time and do not engage
    in commerce at the time of Friday prayers.

    He will also stop unrelated men and women from appearing in public places together, and discourage
    singing and dancing.


    President Musharraf says that the bill breaches of fundamental rights

    One of his tasks will be to monitor the media to ensure "publications are useful for the promotion
    of Islamic values
     
    habshi, Jul 15, 2005
    #15
  16. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/15/05 9:15 PM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:

    > More proof that singing and dancing is unislamic and if Muslims want to keep enjoying them
    > they have to convert back to paganism
    >
    > excerpt bbc.co.uk
    >
    > The law includes measures to ensure people respect calls to prayer and to discourage singing and
    > dancing.
    >
    > The NWFP government says it was mandated to pass the law when elected.
    >
    > Under the new law, an Islamic watchdog will monitor the observance of Islamic values in public
    > places in NWFP.


    If Gandhi ji had not overruled Seemant Gandhi Khan Abdul
    Gaffar Khan, NWFP would have been a part of India and its
    inhabitants would have got spared from such kaTTarpanthii
    insanities.

    Could someone please mention the reason why Gandhi did that.

    And I am not going off topic. I am talking about what is
    shown in the film Gandhi. (or was it in Patel?) thus, any
    discussion on it will be very much in the scope of this ng.
    ----------

    Off-topic comment:

    I feel that it was better when the number of namaaz was 50
    namaazs per day.

    Because, with 50 namaazs to observe, these kaTTarpanthiis
    would have remained in masjid for the entire day and night,
    and open-minded muslims could have lived a happy life.
    --
    Rawat

    >
    > The plan is reminiscent of the infamous Department of Vice and Virtue, set up by the Taleban regime
    > in Afghanistan.
    >
    > The passage of the bill followed a heated debate between the ruling conservative six-party religious
    > alliance Mutahida Majlis Amal (MMA) and the opposition.
    >
    > 'People's mandate'
    >
    > Under the new law, the principal duty of the cleric, called "mohtasib" - one who holds other
    > accountable - will be to ensure people respect the call to prayers, pray on time and do not engage
    > in commerce at the time of Friday prayers.
    >
    > He will also stop unrelated men and women from appearing in public places together, and discourage
    > singing and dancing.
    >
    >
    > President Musharraf says that the bill breaches of fundamental rights
    >
    > One of his tasks will be to monitor the media to ensure "publications are useful for the promotion
    > of Islamic values
    >
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 15, 2005
    #16
  17. habshi

    harmony Guest

    "V S Rawat" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 7/15/05 9:15 PM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:
    >
    >
    > Off-topic comment:
    >
    > I feel that it was better when the number of namaaz was 50
    > namaazs per day.
    >
    > Because, with 50 namaazs to observe, these kaTTarpanthiis
    > would have remained in masjid for the entire day and night,
    > and open-minded muslims could have lived a happy life.
    > --
    > Rawat
    >


    no matter the newsgroup, this is about the _only on topic_ thing there is.
    don't forget mummudism is a way of life, which includes all walks of life,
    ie including videos, dvds, arts, movies and all. all sane people are agreed
    that mummudism must be rejected like a rotten apple as a way of life. thus,
    all mommedans must be saved from mummudism and brought to civilization.
    terms such as jihadi, moderate mommedans, liberal mommedans, sane mommedans
    or insane mommedans, orthodox mommedans or modern mommedans are all part of
    the same problem. when you view this with the awareness that this earth is
    god's only life bearing planet in the infinite universe will be, there is
    only one conclsuion to be reached and that is mummudism must be burned
    beyond recognition for all humanity, including mommedans.
     
    harmony, Jul 15, 2005
    #17
  18. habshi wrote:

    > Magnificient . What other film industry can produce a forty
    >year old 3 hr movie where you are so entranced that you dont want it
    >to finish , even from the start?
    > The colors really bring the movie alive. They still have the
    >costumes so they knew what most of the colors were and it really is
    >amazing how the court of the emperor , the women and their jewellery
    >and costumes -how captivating they all are , if you dont get to see it
    >on the big screen , then watch it via projector or big plasma set.
    > Prithviraj Kapoor and Madhubhala are the real stars and the
    >music is out of this world. Really learnt a lot of urdu and persian
    >words from reading the subtitles . Perhaps the most outstanding part
    >of the movie is the background music . This is the way it should be.
    >
    >

    Has anybody seen the Shemaroo DVD? Is it 4:3 original aspect ratio?
    How does it compare to the Eros DVD?
     
    Michel Hafner, Jul 16, 2005
    #18
  19. habshi

    V S Rawat Guest

    On 7/16/05 1:30 AM India Time, _harmony_ wrote:

    > "V S Rawat" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>On 7/15/05 9:15 PM India Time, _habshi_ wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>Off-topic comment:
    >>
    >>I feel that it was better when the number of namaaz was 50
    >>namaazs per day.
    >>
    >>Because, with 50 namaazs to observe, these kaTTarpanthiis
    >>would have remained in masjid for the entire day and night,
    >>and open-minded muslims could have lived a happy life.
    >>--
    >>Rawat
    >>

    >
    >
    > no matter the newsgroup, this is about the _only on topic_ thing there is.
    > don't forget mummudism is a way of life, which includes all walks of life,
    > ie including videos, dvds, arts, movies and all. all sane people are agreed
    > that mummudism must be rejected like a rotten apple as a way of life. thus,
    > all mommedans must be saved from mummudism and brought to civilization.
    > terms such as jihadi, moderate mommedans, liberal mommedans, sane mommedans
    > or insane mommedans, orthodox mommedans or modern mommedans are all part of
    > the same problem. when you view this with the awareness that this earth is
    > god's only life bearing planet in the infinite universe will be, there is
    > only one conclsuion to be reached and that is mummudism must be burned
    > beyond recognition for all humanity, including mommedans.
    >
    >


    Could someone please develop the following story idea to a
    script for a full-fledged feature film:-

    -------------
    An archealogist finds the original copy of the Holy Quraan,
    hand-written by Hazrat Mohammed himself, elaborating what
    Allah said.

    And it was 90% different from the current Quraan.
    -----------
    --
    Rawat
     
    V S Rawat, Jul 16, 2005
    #19
  20. habshi

    habshi Guest

    Watching Mother India , one appreciates that these are
    priceless time capsules . Life was a constant battle against the odds
    and families had to be large to enable enough survived.
    Farm work was back breaking and often the family could grow
    only enough to feed itself .and sometimes not even that .
    The wide availability of oil from the 1960s changed all that ,
    as it replaced human labour and allowed populations to explode , but
    as supplies run out most of the world's pop will not get food and will
    die .
     
    habshi, Jul 17, 2005
    #20
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