MS Press 2003 books and alternatives

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Bill Bixby, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. Bill Bixby

    Bill Bixby Guest

    Hello All -

    Sorry if this has been brought up before.

    I've been working with Microsoft server products for several years and
    finally decided to get the MCSE. I picked up the MS Press training
    kit for W2k3 and I'm finding it nearly impossible to read. It speaks
    almost entirely in generalities and when it includes examples or
    analogies, it just uses even more.

    Here's their description of a universal group, for example:

    "Univeral groups are used primarily to grant access to resources in
    all trusted domains, but univeral groups can only be used as a
    security principal (security group type) in a Windows 2000 native or
    Windows 2003 domain fuctional level domain."

    The entire text reads like the above.

    I figured this wouldn't be a big deal and once I got to the hands-on
    exercises and review questions that everything would be clear.
    However, some of the questions are flat-out technically wrong
    (contradicting information presented in the chapter) and most offer no
    explanation! They just say, "The correct answer is B".

    Anyway, I'm at the point that I suspect I should just throw the whole
    thing away ($200 wasted) and find another series. Sorry for the rant,
    but I'm looking for another way to approach this and am considering
    the exam cram books (they offer replacements for all four that I'm
    using now for about $100 total). I'm just looking for other's
    opinions on the matter. Normally, I'd head down to the local
    bookstore and see if they have what I need, but the only books on the
    shelf for 2k3 certification are the MS Press ones.

    So all rambling aside, should I look for another series or just suck
    it up because the MS Press books are as good as anything else?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Bill Bixby, Apr 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. Bill Bixby

    Neil Guest

    (Bill Bixby) wrote in
    news::

    > Normally, I'd head down to the local
    > bookstore and see if they have what I need, but the only books on the
    > shelf for 2k3 certification are the MS Press ones.
    >


    you need a new book store. try amazon.com

    Sybex...

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 22, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bill Bixby

    Doom Guest


    >-----Original Message-----
    >Hello All -
    >
    >Sorry if this has been brought up before.
    >
    >I've been working with Microsoft server products for

    several years and
    >finally decided to get the MCSE. I picked up the MS

    Press training
    >kit for W2k3 and I'm finding it nearly impossible to

    read. It speaks
    >almost entirely in generalities and when it includes

    examples or
    >analogies, it just uses even more.
    >
    >Here's their description of a universal group, for

    example:
    >
    >"Univeral groups are used primarily to grant access to

    resources in
    >all trusted domains, but univeral groups can only be

    used as a
    >security principal (security group type) in a Windows

    2000 native or
    >Windows 2003 domain fuctional level domain."
    >
    >The entire text reads like the above.
    >
    >I figured this wouldn't be a big deal and once I got to

    the hands-on
    >exercises and review questions that everything would be

    clear.
    >However, some of the questions are flat-out technically

    wrong
    >(contradicting information presented in the chapter) and

    most offer no
    >explanation! They just say, "The correct answer is B".
    >
    >Anyway, I'm at the point that I suspect I should just

    throw the whole
    >thing away ($200 wasted) and find another series. Sorry

    for the rant,
    >but I'm looking for another way to approach this and am

    considering
    >the exam cram books (they offer replacements for all

    four that I'm
    >using now for about $100 total). I'm just looking for

    other's
    >opinions on the matter. Normally, I'd head down to the

    local
    >bookstore and see if they have what I need, but the only

    books on the
    >shelf for 2k3 certification are the MS Press ones.
    >
    >So all rambling aside, should I look for another series

    or just suck
    >it up because the MS Press books are as good as anything

    else?
    >
    >Thanks in advance.
    >.
    >I've used Sybex books before and thought they were

    thorough and informative. I have never used MS press so I
    can't compare. Also I've found anything written by Mark
    Minasi is good. You might want to try www.sybex.com. Good
    luck.
     
    Doom, Apr 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Bill Bixby

    Guest Guest

    The best way to find what works for you is to go to your
    local B&N etc. Go throught hte books and determine the
    style that best suites you. I hav not looked at all the MS
    Press books but in general I like them.
    Atl New riders, Sybex, Syngress, The Dummies books are
    good. If you have a chance to take MOC course at IT
    Accadamy, those are helpful. As far as the MSPRESS 2003
    server book it may well be that particular authors style.
    I go to book store determine the book(s) i want then but
    on-line. 25-30% savings sometimes and$25.00 > is free
    shipping at B&N. Now i am not paid by any mentioned
    supplier or vendor :).
    reg
    MCDBA
    MCSE

    >-----Original Message-----
    >
     
    Guest, Apr 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Bill Bixby

    MikeF Guest

    > Hello All -
    >
    > Sorry if this has been brought up before.
    >
    > I've been working with Microsoft server products for several years and
    > finally decided to get the MCSE. I picked up the MS Press training
    > kit for W2k3 and I'm finding it nearly impossible to read. It speaks
    > almost entirely in generalities and when it includes examples or
    > analogies, it just uses even more.
    >
    > Here's their description of a universal group, for example:
    >
    > "Univeral groups are used primarily to grant access to resources in
    > all trusted domains, but univeral groups can only be used as a
    > security principal (security group type) in a Windows 2000 native or
    > Windows 2003 domain fuctional level domain."
    >
    > The entire text reads like the above.
    >
    > I figured this wouldn't be a big deal and once I got to the hands-on
    > exercises and review questions that everything would be clear.
    > However, some of the questions are flat-out technically wrong
    > (contradicting information presented in the chapter) and most offer no
    > explanation! They just say, "The correct answer is B".
    >
    > Anyway, I'm at the point that I suspect I should just throw the whole
    > thing away ($200 wasted) and find another series. Sorry for the rant,
    > but I'm looking for another way to approach this and am considering
    > the exam cram books (they offer replacements for all four that I'm
    > using now for about $100 total). I'm just looking for other's
    > opinions on the matter. Normally, I'd head down to the local
    > bookstore and see if they have what I need, but the only books on the
    > shelf for 2k3 certification are the MS Press ones.
    >
    > So all rambling aside, should I look for another series or just suck
    > it up because the MS Press books are as good as anything else?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.



    Once you find books you like, don't forget to check prices at
    www.bookpool.com. Usually the cheapest.

    And you are right about the quality of ms press prose. Usually the worst.
    They never use one word if they can use three; they never use a short word
    if they can find a long one. Often, they actually use the wrong word, a
    word that doesn't mean what they think it does.

    I have taught classes that ran for 3 months using those books. And have
    wasted 15-20% of class time explaining the meaning of convoluted, overly
    abstract sentences. Schools require the books because there are always
    students who don't do the work and so don't learn the material. Since many
    folks find it easier to blame the school than their own work habits,
    defenses have to be in place. Using Microsoft's own books removes a
    possible avenue of attack, as in, "This school sucks. I want my money back.
    You didn't even use the right books!"

    Not many IT students are capable of mounting a "quality of prose" attack :)

    btw, keep the ms books. most (not all) of them do have a tremendous amount
    of information buried in the thickets.

    Mike
     
    MikeF, Apr 23, 2004
    #5
  6. Bill Bixby

    Bill Bixby Guest

    "MikeF" <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > Once you find books you like, don't forget to check prices at
    > www.bookpool.com. Usually the cheapest.
    >
    > And you are right about the quality of ms press prose. Usually the worst.
    > They never use one word if they can use three; they never use a short word
    > if they can find a long one. Often, they actually use the wrong word, a
    > word that doesn't mean what they think it does.
    >
    > I have taught classes that ran for 3 months using those books. And have
    > wasted 15-20% of class time explaining the meaning of convoluted, overly
    > abstract sentences. Schools require the books because there are always
    > students who don't do the work and so don't learn the material. Since many
    > folks find it easier to blame the school than their own work habits,
    > defenses have to be in place. Using Microsoft's own books removes a
    > possible avenue of attack, as in, "This school sucks. I want my money back.
    > You didn't even use the right books!"
    >
    > Not many IT students are capable of mounting a "quality of prose" attack :)
    >
    > btw, keep the ms books. most (not all) of them do have a tremendous amount
    > of information buried in the thickets.
    >
    > Mike


    Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe it's just me but I almost felt like
    the 290 book was being intentionally obtuse. As if the authors were
    being smug and deliberately describing everything in the most
    difficult way possible. I used to study philosophy and that was a
    pretty regular thing, hiding something actually worthwhile behind a
    lot of sophistry and fallacy to see who would get past all of it and
    "make the cut".

    To the guy who mentioned checking out B&N and thumbing through to find
    one suited for me, that is my usual course of action. However, as I
    said, after checking three of them in my area, they were only carrying
    the MS Press books. I thought that was odd. I think with the state
    of the economy and IT they are being more cautious with IT books.

    I decided to change course. I picked up the Passport book for XP by
    Mike Meyers. I used the passport book for the network+ and really
    liked it. I have to shake my head at some of his jokes though. At
    least he tries. Also, I've heard from numerous sources that the
    client-side OS test is the one to start with.

    At the same time, I ordered the Passport books for the core exams from
    Bookpool. I think I'll use the Passport books to get the concepts/big
    picture stuff, but I'll still go through the exercises and review
    questions in the MS Press books as well. I'm taking a gamble on the
    Passport books for the core stuff but they don't carry it at local
    places so...

    Thanks again.

    - j
     
    Bill Bixby, Apr 29, 2004
    #6
  7. Bill Bixby

    Consultant Guest

    i wouldn't like you when you are angry

    "Bill Bixby" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "MikeF" <> wrote in message

    news:<>...
    >
    > > Once you find books you like, don't forget to check prices at
    > > www.bookpool.com. Usually the cheapest.
    > >
    > > And you are right about the quality of ms press prose. Usually the

    worst.
    > > They never use one word if they can use three; they never use a short

    word
    > > if they can find a long one. Often, they actually use the wrong word, a
    > > word that doesn't mean what they think it does.
    > >
    > > I have taught classes that ran for 3 months using those books. And have
    > > wasted 15-20% of class time explaining the meaning of convoluted, overly
    > > abstract sentences. Schools require the books because there are always
    > > students who don't do the work and so don't learn the material. Since

    many
    > > folks find it easier to blame the school than their own work habits,
    > > defenses have to be in place. Using Microsoft's own books removes a
    > > possible avenue of attack, as in, "This school sucks. I want my money

    back.
    > > You didn't even use the right books!"
    > >
    > > Not many IT students are capable of mounting a "quality of prose" attack

    :)
    > >
    > > btw, keep the ms books. most (not all) of them do have a tremendous

    amount
    > > of information buried in the thickets.
    > >
    > > Mike

    >
    > Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe it's just me but I almost felt like
    > the 290 book was being intentionally obtuse. As if the authors were
    > being smug and deliberately describing everything in the most
    > difficult way possible. I used to study philosophy and that was a
    > pretty regular thing, hiding something actually worthwhile behind a
    > lot of sophistry and fallacy to see who would get past all of it and
    > "make the cut".
    >
    > To the guy who mentioned checking out B&N and thumbing through to find
    > one suited for me, that is my usual course of action. However, as I
    > said, after checking three of them in my area, they were only carrying
    > the MS Press books. I thought that was odd. I think with the state
    > of the economy and IT they are being more cautious with IT books.
    >
    > I decided to change course. I picked up the Passport book for XP by
    > Mike Meyers. I used the passport book for the network+ and really
    > liked it. I have to shake my head at some of his jokes though. At
    > least he tries. Also, I've heard from numerous sources that the
    > client-side OS test is the one to start with.
    >
    > At the same time, I ordered the Passport books for the core exams from
    > Bookpool. I think I'll use the Passport books to get the concepts/big
    > picture stuff, but I'll still go through the exercises and review
    > questions in the MS Press books as well. I'm taking a gamble on the
    > Passport books for the core stuff but they don't carry it at local
    > places so...
    >
    > Thanks again.
    >
    > - j
     
    Consultant, Apr 29, 2004
    #7
  8. Bill Bixby

    Bill Bixby Guest

    Bill Bixby, Apr 29, 2004
    #8
    1. Advertising

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